The boosters must be fatigued at this point.

Cattorney said:

Yea, a stroke that left Ys off. Very specific type! Lmao.

What L, boss?

You've in this very thread inferred Pope was on the hot seat, in a make it or break it season. Even stating he has underperformed to this point. So how is that successful? I don't know many people who would consider having their job in jeopardy as successful.

Did I ever say he didn't? Hell, Jeffrey Epstein made more money than me and Pope. How's that "success" and money working out for him?

It's done a pretty good job of showing money doesn't equal success.

This really isn't that hard. Go look at the reactions my post got compared to yours. That should tell you who won. The rest has just been pure entertainment for me.

Getting a lot of rides this morning?

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

You still trying? That's so cute.

What I read is blah blah blah, I'm upset because Pope makes more money than me and has had a more successful career than me so I must pretend like he hasn't.

Look I apologize that I ate your fruit snacks and drank your juice box on the way out of your house this morning. Your mother was great though.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

Lol, so, Pope is on the hot seat, hasn't lived up to expectations and most of the last 3 years has been a disappointment (your own words in thos thread, BTW) but he's successful? You haven't realized yet I have been getting you to defeat your own argument this whole time, have you?

You into 90 year olds in assisted living that wear depends?

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

Gosh dang kid, you continue to not be able to spell for someone who pretends to be college educated. Will they not let you in the court room? Is that why you are here on rafters in the middle of the day?

90 year old mother in assisted living? That's more fake than your law degree. Seeing as how you should be 70 or so if that was the case, and still with student loan debt... Man, you can't win for losing.

The dead horse is beat. You try to conflate Pope's ability to meet current UK expectations to somehow overshadowing a career of success. Even then, Pope has been more successful than you to this point (your original argument). His current level of coaching success is still greater than your ability to filed paperwork in a law basement.

Click to expand...

Son_Of_Saul said:

Put yourself in their shoes. First, you watch Collins come within a conversation of signing last November, a move that everyone predicted was locked in, until it wasn't.

Then you watch Mark Pope miss on 13 straight top 20 recruits. All of them visited Lexington. All of them told UK, "no thanks." But you still had hope that Stokes would come. After all, just like Collins, UK was the perceived favorite for Stokes in the fall of '25. Just like Collins, you tell Mark Pope that you will support him with another round of a significant war chest.

Mark Pope: "We'll need around $6.5 million for Stokes. Can you guys help?"
Boosters: "You got it, coach. We'll go all-in with you again."

And then decision day arrives for Stokes and you find out he'd already given a verbal to Kansas a month before and was just playing Pope the whole time.

But then a period of time passes and there is a Croatian sensation that is demanding around $6 to 7 million.

Pope asks for help again to land Kusturica.

Mark Pope: "We will need around $6.5 million for Kusturica. Can you guys help?"
Boosters: "You say he's a future top 3 pick someday? You've got it. We'll put together another warchest for you."

And then decision day comes and goes for Kusturica and you find out he was locked in to UCLA the entire time.

Rob Wright? The same. UK led until they found out there were getting played to up the maximum offer from BYU.

And then comes Mitchell. Coach Pope comes to you one more time and asks if you can help open the vault once more.

You swoop in and offer another virtually blank check. Pope thanks you with a hug and a promise but two weeks later you wake up on a Monday to discover that Mitchell is back on the Missouri campus with no intention of attending Kentucky.



At what point do you stop investing millions into the Mark Pope project and start restructuring those funds into a potential future buyout?

Click to expand...

gracetoyou said:

#1 UK did NOT ever think they would get Wright. They simply kicked the tires. Most of that perception is from media reading the tea leaves & thinking UK was a leader. Wright's family wanted him to visit UK & be closer to their Atlanta home. Wright only visited for family favor & at agent recommendation...UK knew this but why not kick the tires? Wright's agent used visit to get more money out of BYU.

#2 Mitchell is NOT Pope's fault.

#3 Freeman actually committed to UK on his visit but his agent put the breaks on said he could get him more money at St John's & did....was not a Pope issue.

The high school recruiting stuff is real. Certainly Pope messed up messing with Stokes who is a massive diva & should have steered clear & taken Collins.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

I know. Courts clearly care about my spelling on rafters. Lulz. Is that really the best you got?

I work in a county with 2 circuit court divisions and 7 CW attorneys. I'll let you do the math there, boss.

Hmm. I'm 55, mom is almost 91. How many years is that? So are you saying 35 yo women can't have kids? You sure?!?!

Who said I still had the debt? You realize debt can be paid but still existed, right?

The joke is still pretty good. Probably why it's still getting likes.

You even said he wasn't meeting expectations. Hence the hot seat.

What's his success, though? Can you name them?

So I am an attorney now? Or do I just work in the basement?

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

You said you were an attorney, not me.

Of course 35 plus aged women can have children, it's just extremely odd a 55 year old uses Lulz, cares about post reactions, and references Gen Z and Gen Alpha slang and thought processes. You do you.

Now the goal posts are moved to the joke being pretty good, instead of factually incorrect? Got it, kiddo.

"What's his success, though? Can you name them?"
As an athlete?
Full Athletic Scholarship to Washington
PAC-10 Freshmen of the Year in 1992
ALL-SEC Tournament Team in 1995 (Elite Eight run)
Team Captain of 1996 Team (National Champions)
Drafted 52nd overall in the NBA draft in 1996 by the Indiana Pacers
Played 6 seasons in the NBA

verses your success as an athlete???
Show us your ring, kiddo

As a professional?
Bachelors of English from UK (1996)
Rhodes Scholar Candidate
2 years of Medical School at Columbia before deciding to pursue Coaching
$1.275 Million Contract to be the head coach of Utah Valley (63.5% win percentage over 4 years, with the program starting at 40.0% win percentage when he took over to finishing with a 71.4% winning percentage) He succeeded enough to get a better coaching job.
No public information on his pay at BYU (private university) all we know is the $6 million buyout.
Finished ranked 18th and 23rd in 2 seasons, made 2 NCAA tournaments, 67.9% win percentage over 5 years. Somehow successful enough for UK Athletics to offer him, wait for it...
A 5 year $27.5 Million contract with Kentucky.
Led UK to its first Sweet 16 appearance since 2019 earning him an additional year added on to his contract.

You've argued his "money" doesn't indicate success. His getting the position of coaching a Blue Blood apparently isn't indicative of success either. Yet he has only ascended prior to his time at UK, and actually did enough in Year 1 to earn a contract extension from those who actual decide whether or not he was successful.

I mean, if we list out your "accomplishments" and salary and let strangers on this board decide who has more success, you winning that one?

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

Would you be willing to extend him a give him a raise for another SW16?

These powers that be...they the same one's that were trying to give Barney that big parting salary?

Well, I am not currently considered in the hot seat or likely to be fired. So, I would say several people might say my work life is a bit more successful currently. Even without the 5 mil salary.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

I personally would not have hired Mark Pope in the first place at UK. I wasn't asked by UK though. I didn't bake into his contract that a Sweet 16 automatically triggers an additional year. I wasn't asked by UK though. I do not believe the threshold should have been a Sweet 16 for a contract extension. I would have been more able to agree on and Elite 8, Regular Season Conference Championship, or SEC Tournament Championship triggering 1 year extension but not entirely sold on it though either depending on what the money looked like for that additional year. A Final Four though, I wouldn't argue with a 1 year extension and a 10%-15% pay bump.

Those powers that be, some are the same ones that tried to give Barney a golden parachute. Others have no say in Barney's deal. Hard to say for certain who all outside of the board had their hands in the Barney deal. Won't even begin to speculate because too many conspiracy theories already exist with that and it is completely irrelevant. The two men most directly credited with the hiring of Mark Pope no longer work for UK (Marc Hill and Barney). So if Pope gets year 4, it's the current regime's choice.

Regardless of how we feel as fans, I have a question. Has anyone from the UK Athletics department came out and publicly stated that Mark Pope is on the hot seat and likely to be fired? Please link it below. Or are you presenting an opinion without actual facts, again?

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

But then what is this success he is really having. If you wouldn't have hired and the general consensus most wouldn't, is that really indicative of success as a coach?

Oddly, we completely agree on what should trigger extensions. But again, that means that Sw16 extension isn't really a major success in the grand scheme. Im fact, while the sw16 was better in terms of NCAA finish, haven't we regressed from where we were at in our own conference?

Again, though, if it was just thise guys doing it, does that really prove Pope was successful or just another bad deal UK fans didn't want?

Do they ever at any athletic department. Those usually are conducive to good relationships or work environments. So why would you expect them to now?

However, what set your tirade off was my post about my online law degree being more successful than Pope's coaching career, particularly at UK. By your own statements, you're even having to acknowledge it's not a success.

Hell, UK told us things were great with Cal and he quit a few days later.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

You are trying to measure success differently than most people would, I guess. To pretend like in his 55 years on this planet he has not succeeded more than you in your (self proclaimed 55 years) is absurd. He has earned significantly more money by being successful at his endeavors (which you quickly try to dance around), he's continued to land bigger and better jobs by having to "succeed" at a level high enough to continue to do so. If you were currently working for say Kirkland and Ellis, Cravath Swain and Moore, or Sullivan and Cromwell (whom I am sure you are at least vaguely familiar with) one could assume you had "succeeded" well enough in your law career to advance and be offered a job at a "Blue Blood" level law firm, no? Then if you perform slightly above average against your peers, does that negate the previous success that landed you the job? If they keep you on, is that validation that you are doing enough for them to believe you are successful currently or at least have the potential to improve even further?

His previous success got him this job. His current success got him an extension. My personal belief on where I set the bar for success at UK doesn't change either of those factual statements. Neither does yours. You seem to rate your personal success rate higher than his for some reason, despite his NCAA championship, his making the NBA, his net worth, his connections, heck even his family, etc but have nothing to base it on other than "vibes" I guess because he dominates you in actual provable data sets.

It's not impossible for us to agree on things, many things. We have demonstrated that in other threads posting similar takes. I simply disagree that Pope is less successful than you. You have yet to be able to prove that he is by comparison. It's okay to disagree, and it's okay to admit someone you think is doing a bad job currently is still more successful than you. I'm not political and dislike both parties but it's okay for me to admit Trump is doing a terrible job but is way more successful than me, for example.

It's easy for talking heads and message boards to claim a coach is on the hot seat. It doesn't make it factual. Probable, but not factual. I don't expect Batt to come out and say it directly, but some AD's are willing to imply things are not going well, lower than expected, or looking to make a change if things don't improve. We haven't seen that out of Batt yet regarding Pope. Of course, that says nothing to the boosters say, cutting off funding or pinching it to force Pope out, which won't make the headlines. However, even after last season, we haven't seen that. If anything, we saw boosters double down and spend more this year. Several someone's who actually make the decisions about who the head coach at UK is feels like Pope is a success and are paying millions to support him.

I think getting lost in the forest for the trees here is that I'm not pining for Pope to get a career contract here. I think his ceiling is just enough to keep his job, SW16 with a chance at an E8. He's late stage Tubby 2.0 in a lot of ways. I'm simply saying, he's still successful, even if it chaps people to say it. There's currently 361 Division 1 institutions.

Even in Pope's 2 seasons at UK, we finished the year ranked:
24-25: 12th
25-26: 29th

That means Pope was more successful (in years most UK fans would say were underwhelming), than 330 plus college coaches. We demand more because we are crazy UK fans who require banners, but success isn't measured by our expectations of our coaches alone. Against his peers, he's actually doing quite well.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

Quite the contrary actually. The post that caused all this was when I responded to the quip about my law degree. I said it was better than his coaching career. Not his life. You've even had to concede here is coaching career hasn't been successful. That's the reason there are no accomplishments and you have resorted to win% and random stuff.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

What previous success? Name them!

My success is higher in my job. I am not about to be fired or have all my clients (commonwealth citizens) wanting my head for sucking.

Not related to his basketball coaching. Again, name the successes. Why would you not hire him at UK or think he wasn't the right guy if he was successful?

At his job, he is less successful. That's been proven by me and you. Hence why you can't name any successes. Every program he was at got better when he left. How is that indicative of success?

What ADs have said before or during a season there coach is on the hot seat? They don't! Which makes that a dumb argument.

No, they support UK and want to see UK successful. To do so in today's game, you have to pony up. That isn't support of Pope. That's support of UK.

Successful at what? What are the successes?

Where did we start those 2 seasons ranked? And why is being 12th best and 29th best good or successful at UK? Particularly when we had top 5 resources spent.

Were we supposed to be behind those 330 or something?

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

Only partially correct. I didn't concede his coaching career hasn't been successful. A Sweet 16, Tying the all time record for wins in a season against ranked opponents, aren't accomplishments? Now you are turning into Stretch Armstrong. Winning percentages are data points, not "random stuff". You have still yet to provide any proof you are more successful than Pope's Coaching Career either.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

I made a list. The internet remembers even if you don't. List your successes. Name them!

You're a prosecutor (your claim), who only takes government cases that are slam dunks with no chance of losing (your claim). If you never get out of the kiddie pool and only dunk on toddlers, are you really winning anything? Did you actually succeed at anything if there was no risk?

"Every program he was at got better when he left". That is another, in a long line, of patently false claims you have made and pretended were factual that are easily disputed.
View attachment 1418560

That's Utah Valley before, during, and 3 years after Pope. Yet you claim they got "better" after he left. Do you actually believe your own bull crap? It's kind of pitiful at this point, honestly.

"No, they support UK and want to see UK successful. To do so in today's game, you have to pony up. That isn't support of Pope. That's support of UK."

Wait a minute, didn't the UK boosters freeze out Cal from NIL funds and pinch him for money? Didn't he piss off the Crafts for not allowing Oscar to be in political ad? But that would be impossible, they support UK and want to see UK successful. Another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence and pretty easily disproven.

Prove we had/have top 5 resources to recruit with. Link verified NIL budgets that prove we are top 5. You can't, because even if most schools reported them, private schools never would. Just another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

I made a list. The internet remembers even if you don't. List your successes. Name them!

You're a prosecutor (your claim), who only takes government cases that are slam dunks with no chance of losing (your claim). If you never get out of the kiddie pool and only dunk on toddlers, are you really winning anything? Did you actually succeed at anything if there was no risk?

"Every program he was at got better when he left". That is another, in a long line, of patently false claims you have made and pretended were factual that are easily disputed.
View attachment 1418560

That's Utah Valley before, during, and 3 years after Pope. Yet you claim they got "better" after he left. Do you actually believe your own bull crap? It's kind of pitiful at this point, honestly.

"No, they support UK and want to see UK successful. To do so in today's game, you have to pony up. That isn't support of Pope. That's support of UK."

Wait a minute, didn't the UK boosters freeze out Cal from NIL funds and pinch him for money? Didn't he piss off the Crafts for not allowing Oscar to be in political ad? But that would be impossible, they support UK and want to see UK successful. Another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence and pretty easily disproven.

Prove we had/have top 5 resources to recruit with. Link verified NIL budgets that prove we are top 5. You can't, because even if most schools reported them, private schools never would. Just another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

I made a list. The internet remembers even if you don't. List your successes. Name them!

You're a prosecutor (your claim), who only takes government cases that are slam dunks with no chance of losing (your claim). If you never get out of the kiddie pool and only dunk on toddlers, are you really winning anything? Did you actually succeed at anything if there was no risk?

"Every program he was at got better when he left". That is another, in a long line, of patently false claims you have made and pretended were factual that are easily disputed.
View attachment 1418560

That's Utah Valley before, during, and 3 years after Pope. Yet you claim they got "better" after he left. Do you actually believe your own bull crap? It's kind of pitiful at this point, honestly.

"No, they support UK and want to see UK successful. To do so in today's game, you have to pony up. That isn't support of Pope. That's support of UK."

Wait a minute, didn't the UK boosters freeze out Cal from NIL funds and pinch him for money? Didn't he piss off the Crafts for not allowing Oscar to be in political ad? But that would be impossible, they support UK and want to see UK successful. Another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence and pretty easily disproven.

Prove we had/have top 5 resources to recruit with. Link verified NIL budgets that prove we are top 5. You can't, because even if most schools reported them, private schools never would. Just another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

I made a list. The internet remembers even if you don't. List your successes. Name them!

You're a prosecutor (your claim), who only takes government cases that are slam dunks with no chance of losing (your claim). If you never get out of the kiddie pool and only dunk on toddlers, are you really winning anything? Did you actually succeed at anything if there was no risk?

"Every program he was at got better when he left". That is another, in a long line, of patently false claims you have made and pretended were factual that are easily disputed.
View attachment 1418560

That's Utah Valley before, during, and 3 years after Pope. Yet you claim they got "better" after he left. Do you actually believe your own bull crap? It's kind of pitiful at this point, honestly.

"No, they support UK and want to see UK successful. To do so in today's game, you have to pony up. That isn't support of Pope. That's support of UK."

Wait a minute, didn't the UK boosters freeze out Cal from NIL funds and pinch him for money? Didn't he piss off the Crafts for not allowing Oscar to be in political ad? But that would be impossible, they support UK and want to see UK successful. Another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence and pretty easily disproven.

Prove we had/have top 5 resources to recruit with. Link verified NIL budgets that prove we are top 5. You can't, because even if most schools reported them, private schools never would. Just another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

I made a list. The internet remembers even if you don't. List your successes. Name them!

You're a prosecutor (your claim), who only takes government cases that are slam dunks with no chance of losing (your claim). If you never get out of the kiddie pool and only dunk on toddlers, are you really winning anything? Did you actually succeed at anything if there was no risk?

"Every program he was at got better when he left". That is another, in a long line, of patently false claims you have made and pretended were factual that are easily disputed.
View attachment 1418560

That's Utah Valley before, during, and 3 years after Pope. Yet you claim they got "better" after he left. Do you actually believe your own bull crap? It's kind of pitiful at this point, honestly.

"No, they support UK and want to see UK successful. To do so in today's game, you have to pony up. That isn't support of Pope. That's support of UK."

Wait a minute, didn't the UK boosters freeze out Cal from NIL funds and pinch him for money? Didn't he piss off the Crafts for not allowing Oscar to be in political ad? But that would be impossible, they support UK and want to see UK successful. Another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence and pretty easily disproven.

Prove we had/have top 5 resources to recruit with. Link verified NIL budgets that prove we are top 5. You can't, because even if most schools reported them, private schools never would. Just another opinion claim that isn't based in factual evidence.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

No. At UK we have been to the SW16 45 times. That's about 50% of the time if not more, correct?

Considering BYU and Arky went to the same sw16 that year what was the accomplishment for Pope? Were we favored to make it or did he had to win some big games? And what happened in that SW16?

Didn't we also play the most ever top ranked teams that year, and also end up losing a solid amount to unranked teams? So, again, what was the accomplishment?

But they are random. And it's not exactly a strong win%. When you are talking about great coaches, do you normally have to get down to things like win% and data points, or do you discuss NCAA championships, F4s, conference championships? We both know the answer.

I'm not on the hot seat in my job. That is literally all the proof I need. I don't have the people who should be supporting me demanding I be replaced. That's a pretty strong indicator. You just don't like to admit that.

UVS and BYU both accomplished more before and after Pope. Neither won anything while he was there. UK has so far regressed under Pope.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

View attachment 1418586
You don't think going to the NIT after only qualifying for the CBI under Pope and winning your conference is better than losing it and going to the CBI? Very interesting. You realize they did each these before and after Pope, but never during Pope's tenure. So, what was incorrect about my statement?

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

BYU went to the sw16 and finished 3rd in the Big 12 the season Pope came here. Is that not better than Pope did at BYU?

So, again, what was incorrect?

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

That list was destroyed pretty quickly with facts though.

Do you have any actual accomplishments to list?

We take cases we have evidence to prove. Why the hell would we waste yours, mine and everyone else's tax dollars prosecuting cases we can't prove or have success with? Would you prefer that?

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

Claim: At Uk we have been to the SW16 45 times. that's about 50% of the time if not more, correct?
FACT CHECK: False, while UK has been to the Sweet 16 45 times, the men's basketball team has competed in 123 seasons total. Making UK Sweet 16 appearances 36.585%, not about 50%. It would be semantics but anything pre-1975 when the field expanded from 16 teams to 32 teams meant UK was already automatically in the SW16 from the jump.

Claim: Considering BYU and Arky went to the same SW16 that year what was the accomplishment for Pope?
FACT CHECK: The previous Coach hadn't made the SW16 in 5 years with UK. That's an actual accomplishment, you know what an accomplishment is right? In the previous 5 years did we "accomplish" anything in the NCAA tournament? The accomplishment was taking over a roster than only had Travis Perry on it mid April, tying the record for most wins against ranked teams ever that season, and making the first SW16 for UK this decade with a roster held together by duct tape and bailing wire at the end. That team healthy had already proven it could handle Tenn twice that season, obviously they didn't when it mattered, but you can't ignore the injuries just to pretend your case is stronger.

Claim: Didn't we also play the most ever top ranked teams that year.
FACT CHECK: Strawman attempt to move the goalposts from the actual accomplishment of tying a record, see accomplishment of adding name to record book. But to answer your claim, no 2024-2025 UK did not play the most ranked teams ever that year. Though they did break the program record for wins against top-15 teams in program history (see "accomplishment"). In the record books it'll have Pope's name instead of Rupp, or Pitino, or Cal.

Claim: UVS and BYU both accomplished more before and after Pope. Neither won anything while he was there. UK has so far regressed under Pope.
FACT CHECK: It was already proven above to your initial claim that Utah Valley got better after Pope left was false. Just because you don't like being proven wrong, doesn't make a difference. You next claim that UK has regressed under Pope. This is semantics and another strawman at best. What season are you starting your data set at, what seasons are you comparing? Are we looking at regular season record only, SEC conference record only, SEC tournament seeding or record only, NCAA tournament finishes only? It's impossible to accurately discuss that without knowing the parameters. One could easily argue (and be correct) that UK regressed under John Calipari since COVID having not won a single regular season conference championship or SEC tournament championship in that time. Under Cal he missed the tournament (9-16 season), got booted in the first round by a lower seed twice, and made it to the second round once. UK was already on a steady decline before Mark Pope got a phone call. He hasn't raised the bar much, but he hasn't made it regress from where it was when he found it. The season records are almost identical to Cals this decade at UK before him, Pope has actually gone farther than Cal did with UK this decade. Cal went 80-46 since Covid at UK before he left, a 63.49% win percentage across his last 4 years. Pope has went 46-26 over his 2 years at UK, a marginally better 63.88% win percentage. It's not much, but UK is actually better than he found it... Not "so far regressed" as you claim. He just hasn't rebuilt it to the level or at the rate we want.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

No, I only went out 3 years, Pope is in year 3 at UK. I would be like saying (incorrectly) UK improved after Tubby left and skipping clear over Gillespie's 2 years to get straight to Cal. It's a dishonest claim. You can't compare what Pope may or may not do in the future here against what other Coaches did with more years to build their programs at his old school.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

I didn't mention BYU. you said EVERY program he left. That includes Utah Valley who did not immediately improve until multiple years after he left. They took a SHARP downturn in the first few years after he left. To pretend like they didn't is bad faith again on your part.

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

You haven't presented an actual verifiable fact yet. That's the absolute most hilarious thing about everything you post. It's all conjecture and opinion based in feelings, partial truths, and inference instead of something tangible. It sure is cute though to watch you try and lawyer up a losing position.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

So UK just willingly let themselves get publicity humiliated so Wright could get more BYU money. Mark Pope, the former BYU coach and current UK coach was, like, "I'll let you use my current program to take advantage of my former program and that's totally cool!"

Right!!!!!!

The ruling isn't his fault, but being that desperate for a player this late in the game and not taking into consideration the conference tranfer rule certainly is Pope's fault. This isn't the first season we find ourselves in this predicament under Pope.

Prove the Freeman stuff, cause I call ********.

Click to expand...

gracetoyou said:

What part of "kick the tires" do you not understand? They gave it a stab but knew it was unlikely. One of the top portal guards puts a "do not contact" tag on & wants to visit UK. Through back channels you know family wants him closer but he is still a hard BYU lean. Are you going to say no?? Or are you going to let him visit & try to sell him? It's not the hard to answer for a coach who is looking for a PG at that time.

Good grief you people don't think.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

Lol, 1 year before Pope was hired UVS won their conference. 2 years after he left, they won it again and went to the NIT?

That's not 3, boss. That's the same time he has been here.

I mean, you're just ignoring reality.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

View attachment 1418661
Sharp downturn huh. Won their conference tournament 2 seasons later and went to NIT semis 3 years removed.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

@PastorofMuppets82

The season he left BYU, they actually win a tournament game and advanced to the SW16. Far greater than what Pope did there.

And before you said he did it with what Pope left over, you realize that's admitting he did more than Pope could do with them, right?

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

CLAIM: 2 years after he left, they won it again and went to the NIT.
FACT CHECK: Only partially true. 2 years after Pope left the season was shortened and UV finished Tied for 1st for the regular season with an 11-11 overall record and a 9-4 conference record. They lost in the conference tournament, Grand Canyon won the conference. Utah Valley did not make the NIT. In fact, they received zero postseason invite (NCAA, NIT, CBI, or CIT).
UTAH VALLEY DID NOT MAKE THE NIT UNTIL 2022-2023, YEAR 4 OF MARK MADSEN. Pre-NIL starting in July of 2021, Mark Madsen had season records of 11-19 (5-10 in the WAC), with no postseason invite, and 11-11 (9-4 in the WAC) with no post season invite. Are we going to pretend like pre-NIL Mark Pope wasn't better than his replacement pre-NIL? It literally took Madsen being able to pay players to improve (in season three mind you) to the level Mark Pope had them before he left. I also said I only went 3 seasons because Mark Pope is just now in year three. Keep up. I mean, you keep making bad faith arguments. You lie, on purpose, with the data directly in front of you to try and save face. Keep this up and you'll rack up more L's in this thread than Pope has in his coaching career.
View attachment 1419635

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

You lied again. They didn't win the conference tournament 2 seasons later (Grand Canyon did), they tied for the REGULAR SEASON conference title. You see those two years immediately after Pope left. What are the records and post season accomplishments for Mark Madsen compared to where the program was when Pope left it? You gonna pretend it was 3 years removed and not 4 when they finally got to the NIT? We know you can't spell, but can you not count either? Let's count a tie for first in a shortened season as a conference championship, but gloss over the fact that Grand Canyon won the Conference tournament and Utah Valley went home. Should we also pretend like something very important to college basketball didn't start in July 2021, right before Utah Valley's miraculous improvement under Madsen? I wonder if that could be NIL... You aren't even trying (admitted so yourself multiple times). Maybe you should, you might actually get some wins that way. Take another L. This is child's play at this point.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

Better than Pope's coaching career.

Click to expand...

Cattorney said:

So you admit they won their conference 2 seasons later. They also won it 2 seasons before pope took over. They have won it multiple times since including NIT semifinals appearance. Why couldn't Pope match those accomplishments during his tenure.

If they were more accomplished before and after Pope, how is that good for pope?

Also, why is a screenshot that cuts off some of the record? Not want it all shown?

View attachment 1419745

Click to expand...

PastorofMuppets82 said:

Putting words in my mouth before I even respond now? Are you that upset that you are getting beaten like a drum by facts that you have to tangent to make believe arguments I won't even make? I never mentioned BYU, you did. You made a claim every program got better after Pope left, I used Utah Valley. You tried to prop yourself up by using BYU. BYU isn't every program he left. I didn't need to mention them, they aren't the only place he coached at.

Click to expand...