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The Outrageous Cost of Trump's War on Immigrants

What Would Jesus Do?

What Would Jesus Do?

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Most of this video looks at the corruption and unsafe practices in the food industry endorsed by Trump and the GOP. Definitely worth a watch. But I've cued it to the part at the end that talks about imprisoning immigrants.

For the tl:dr crowd the takeaway is $1 million a year per person to house people mostly only guilty of civil offenses in horrific conditions.

 
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PalmettoTiger1

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What Would Jesus Do? said:
Most of this video looks at the corruption and unsafe practices in the food industry endorsed by Trump and the GOP. Definitely worth a watch. But I've cued it to the part at the end that talks about imprisoning immigrants.

For the tl:dr crowd the takeaway is $1 million a year per person to house people mostly only guilty of civil offenses in horrific conditions.

Click to expand...


THE OUTRAGEOUS COST OF TRUMPS WAR ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WOULD BE ZERO YES ZERO IF THE PEOPLE WERE NOT HERE

PROBLEM SOLVED AS NO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

NO COSTS ON AMERICA

HOW DOES THAT WORK FOR YOU THE AMERICA HATER
 
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Scrubby

Scrubby

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Behold the massive cost of the left’s war on the US via immigrants that have no love or respect for our country.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Send them all home, Redo the census, and remove all congressional representatives that were allocated as a result of non citizens being present in the census count.
 
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Scrubby

Scrubby

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PalmettoTiger1 said:
THE OUTRAGEOUS COST OF TRUMPS WAR ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WOULD BE ZERO YES ZERO IF THE PEOPLE WERE NOT HERE

PROBLEM SOLVED AS NO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

NO COSTS ON AMERICA

HOW DOES THAT WORK FOR YOU THE AMERICA HATER
Click to expand...
But how would democrats maintain their political position if they didn’t import millions of immigrants and count them in the census for congressional seat allocations? You expect them to win on policy positions???
 
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PalmettoTiger1

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Scrubby said:
But how would democrats maintain their political position if they didn’t import millions of immigrants and count them in the census for congressional seat allocations? You expect them to win on policy positions???
Click to expand...
That was not the claim

if you want to get rid of illegal immigrants start actually treating them poorly and they will stop coming

Beat the hell out the men and put them on labor farms and turn all the women into btothel whores

WAIT THAT IS ALREADY BEING DONE BY DEMOCRATS THROUGH NGO ‘s and THE CARTELS SO BEAT US TO IT
 
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Scrubby

Scrubby

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PalmettoTiger1 said:
That was not the claim

if you want to get rid of illegal immigrants start actually treating them poorly and they will stop coming

Beat the hell out the men and put them on labor farms and turn all the women into btothel whores

WAIT THAT IS ALREADY BEING DONE BY DEMOCRATS THROUGH NGO ‘s and THE CARTELS SO BEAT US TO IT
Click to expand...
Don’t forget the kids forced to work on weed farms. Looking at Gavin newsom and CA…

they have to work on the drug plantations because democrats actually care about them so much and are the good guys
 
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baltimorened

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What Would Jesus Do? said:
Most of this video looks at the corruption and unsafe practices in the food industry endorsed by Trump and the GOP. Definitely worth a watch. But I've cued it to the part at the end that talks about imprisoning immigrants.

For the tl:dr crowd the takeaway is $1 million a year per person to house people mostly only guilty of civil offenses in horrific conditions.

Click to expand...

civil offenses for many yes, for all no.

But we come back to most basic question, do we enforce our laws...even civil...or do we just say "what the heck it's only a civil violation so let's ignore it"? Those in the country illegally, even if they have only violated civil law are eligible for deportation...
 
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Scrubby

Scrubby

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Anon1750875978 said:
The Party of White Nationalists.

Redneck tendencies from the high school dropouts.
Click to expand...
Reminder that the most prominent white nationalist in the USA, Richard Spencer, is a proud endorser of the Democrat party and cheered for sleepy joe to be president. Every accusation from the left is a confession.

the far left southern poverty law center is also so the financial wing of the kkk.
 
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DailyBuck7

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What Would Jesus Do? said:
Most of this video looks at the corruption and unsafe practices in the food industry endorsed by Trump and the GOP. Definitely worth a watch. But I've cued it to the part at the end that talks about imprisoning immigrants.

For the tl:dr crowd the takeaway is $1 million a year per person to house people mostly only guilty of civil offenses in horrific conditions.

Click to expand...

Typical Lefty garbage. Here is what Chat GBT had to say. Is:
$1.2 billion ÷ 336,000 detainee-days = about $3,571 per detainee per day.


That's an extraordinarily high daily cost, but it is not $1 million per person.


If you instead divide the $1.2 billion by the approximately 21,000 people who passed through:


$1.2 billion ÷ 21,000 ≈ $57,000 per person."

Chat GPT pointed out that the facility was constructed away from any significant infrastructure. Things like water had to be trucked in. The cost can be greatly reduced overtime as the infrastructure improves.
 
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dpic73

dpic73

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DailyBuck7 said:
Typical Lefty garbage. Here is what Chat GBT had to say. Is:
$1.2 billion ÷ 336,000 detainee-days = about $3,571 per detainee per day.


That's an extraordinarily high daily cost, but it is not $1 million per person.


If you instead divide the $1.2 billion by the approximately 21,000 people who passed through:


$1.2 billion ÷ 21,000 ≈ $57,000 per person."

Chat GPT pointed out that the facility was constructed away from any significant infrastructure. Things like water had to be trucked in. The cost can be greatly reduced overtime as the infrastructure improves.
Click to expand...
The lefty garbage was correct by your numbers and Claude's, you just don't know how to multiply apparently.



The actual figures on Alligator Alcatraz:

A CBS News Miami financial analysis after the facility's shutdown found the total cost came to $3,571 a day per detainee, with a former acting ICE director under Obama calling it "a shocking number" and "an absolutely astounding bed rate." The total cost for the facility was estimated at $1.2 billion. CBS NewsCBS News

Annualized, $3,571/day works out to roughly $1.3 million per detainee per year — so Schlosser's "$1 million" figure is close to, if anything a slight understatement of, what investigative reporting found.

Separately, leaked FEMA/state documents showed the state was spending over $1 million per day to run the facility at points, and state officials themselves estimated costs of $411 per bed per day — compared to standard ICE detention centers, which averaged $157.20 per bed per day. The Tributaryyahoo

Why it was so expensive: the facility's remote Everglades location meant all supplies had to be trucked in, including food, water, and generators for electricity — plus large fixed contracts (temporary tents, portable toilets, staffing) spread over a fluctuating and often much-lower-than-capacity detainee population, which drives the per-detainee cost way up compared to a permanent facility running near capacity. yahoo

So: the $1M/detainee/year figure doesn't apply to ICE detention generally (that's closer to $50–75k/year), but it's a solidly sourced number specifically for Alligator Alcatraz, backed by CBS's post-closure financial analysis.

 
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Moogy

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DailyBuck7 said:
Typical Lefty garbage. Here is what Chat GBT had to say. Is:
$1.2 billion ÷ 336,000 detainee-days = about $3,571 per detainee per day.


That's an extraordinarily high daily cost, but it is not $1 million per person.


If you instead divide the $1.2 billion by the approximately 21,000 people who passed through:


$1.2 billion ÷ 21,000 ≈ $57,000 per person."

Chat GPT pointed out that the facility was constructed away from any significant infrastructure. Things like water had to be trucked in. The cost can be greatly reduced overtime as the infrastructure improves.
Click to expand...

Oh, man.

The claim was $1 million per person per annum.

Your (and Chat GPT's, not Chat GBT ... you dummy) calc says $3571 ... per day. That's $1.3M per annum. Good lord. So, it was "typical lefty garbage" in that it understated the cost by $300K per person.

And, the craziest thing is, @Scrubby and @TigerGrowls, liked your post. Scrubby's over here trying to tell us he's a rocket scientist, and he can't do basic math. Holy hell we're in trouble.

You all need to sit this one out.
 
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DailyBuck7

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dpic73 said:
The lefty garbage was correct by your numbers and Claude's, you just don't know how to multiply apparently.



The actual figures on Alligator Alcatraz:

A CBS News Miami financial analysis after the facility's shutdown found the total cost came to $3,571 a day per detainee, with a former acting ICE director under Obama calling it "a shocking number" and "an absolutely astounding bed rate." The total cost for the facility was estimated at $1.2 billion. CBS NewsCBS News

Annualized, $3,571/day works out to roughly $1.3 million per detainee per year — so Schlosser's "$1 million" figure is close to, if anything a slight understatement of, what investigative reporting found.

Separately, leaked FEMA/state documents showed the state was spending over $1 million per day to run the facility at points, and state officials themselves estimated costs of $411 per bed per day — compared to standard ICE detention centers, which averaged $157.20 per bed per day. The Tributaryyahoo

Why it was so expensive: the facility's remote Everglades location meant all supplies had to be trucked in, including food, water, and generators for electricity — plus large fixed contracts (temporary tents, portable toilets, staffing) spread over a fluctuating and often much-lower-than-capacity detainee population, which drives the per-detainee cost way up compared to a permanent facility running near capacity. yahoo

So: the $1M/detainee/year figure doesn't apply to ICE detention generally (that's closer to $50–75k/year), but it's a solidly sourced number specifically for Alligator Alcatraz, backed by CBS's post-closure financial analysis.

Click to expand...
Here is how chat gpt characterized the spending: "
the arithmetic can produce a very large allocated or annualized per-person figure, but that is different from saying the government literally spent $1 million detaining each person.

The later CBS Miami calculation illustrates the issue. It estimated $1.2 billion in total facility costs, about 21,000 people processed, and an average stay of 16 days.

If you simply allocate the entire $1.2 billion across 21,000 detainees:


$1.2 billion ÷ 21,000 ≈ $57,143 per person processed.


CBS instead allocated the entire facility cost across the estimated 336,000 detainee-days, producing $3,571 per detainee-day. Annualizing that gives about $1.30 million per detainee-year. But the average detainee wasn't there for a year—CBS says 16 days.

Moreover, that $1.2 billion includes the costs of creating and operating an unusually expensive temporary facility, rather than merely the marginal cost of feeding, guarding and housing an additional detainee. Earlier FEMA estimates were about $245 per bed per day, while ordinary ICE detention was estimated around $187 per detainee per day.
 
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baltimorened

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DailyBuck7 said:
Here is how chat gpt characterized the spending: "
the arithmetic can produce a very large allocated or annualized per-person figure, but that is different from saying the government literally spent $1 million detaining each person.

The later CBS Miami calculation illustrates the issue. It estimated $1.2 billion in total facility costs, about 21,000 people processed, and an average stay of 16 days.

If you simply allocate the entire $1.2 billion across 21,000 detainees:


$1.2 billion ÷ 21,000 ≈ $57,143 per person processed.


CBS instead allocated the entire facility cost across the estimated 336,000 detainee-days, producing $3,571 per detainee-day. Annualizing that gives about $1.30 million per detainee-year. But the average detainee wasn't there for a year—CBS says 16 days.

Moreover, that $1.2 billion includes the costs of creating and operating an unusually expensive temporary facility, rather than merely the marginal cost of feeding, guarding and housing an additional detainee. Earlier FEMA estimates were about $245 per bed per day, while ordinary ICE detention was estimated around $187 per detainee per day.
Click to expand...
maybe we reduce the cost by restructuring how we deal with detention vs deportation. Why do we need to detain people we are planning to deport...why not skip one step and deport them...
Is our objective here saving money or enforcing the law?

If it's saving money, just close all prisons as well and let the criminals run free...
 
Finance85

Finance85

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There is a huge difference between illegal immigration and legal immigration. For some reason, the left loves to conflate the two, mixing and matching in an attempt to demonize those opposing illegal immigration. It's much the same as what the left does with health care, saying those without insurance have no access to healthcare, which is an absolute lie.

There are very few studies that can go deep enough into the economic costs of illegal immigration, and that's both by design, and because we have no way of knowing what would happen in an alternate scenario.
 
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DailyBuck7

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baltimorened said:
maybe we reduce the cost by restructuring how we deal with detention vs deportation. Why do we need to detain people we are planning to deport...why not skip one step and deport them...
Is our objective here saving money or enforcing the law?

If it's saving money, just close all prisons as well and let the criminals run free you have to detain them for some period of time.
Click to expand...
You have to detain them for some period of time. They have to be processed correctly and the reason for the deportation accurately noted. Also, mistakes can't be made in terms of detaining people off of the street. It would be a catastrophic mistake to just pull somebody off to the street and send them to a foreign country when they are in American citizens.
 
Jfcarter3

Jfcarter3

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baltimorened said:
civil offenses for many yes, for all no.

But we come back to most basic question, do we enforce our laws...even civil...or do we just say "what the heck it's only a civil violation so let's ignore it"? Those in the country illegally, even if they have only violated civil law are eligible for deportation...
Click to expand...
Well, to bring it full circle, we seem to ignore laws when ICE violates them so perhaps we should lead from the front? We also seem to shut down investigations when they might lead to stuff we don't like, too. Tend to violate the Constitution at a whim as well. Moral high ground is not a strong position for MAGA.
 
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baltimorened

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Jfcarter3 said:
Well, to bring it full circle, we seem to ignore laws when ICE violates them so perhaps we should lead from the front? We also seem to shut down investigations when they might lead to stuff we don't like, too. Tend to violate the Constitution at a whim as well. Moral high ground is not a strong position for MAGA.
Click to expand...
my position has always been support all the laws....no selectivity
 
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DailyBuck7

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Jfcarter3 said:
Well, to bring it full circle, we seem to ignore laws when ICE violates them so perhaps we should lead from the front? We also seem to shut down investigations when they might lead to stuff we don't like, too. Tend to violate the Constitution at a whim as well. Moral high ground is not a strong position for MAGA.
Click to expand...
Your post is kind of funny, in light of the fact that the Democrats when they were in office effectively wrote immigration laws out of the books. Obama using the phony pretext right to selectively prosecute, decided that functionally immigration laws were not to be enforced supposedly to save prosecution resources.An analogous situation would be if Trump stated that he didn't like a certain tax law, and he was going to decide to not enforce it in order to save prosecution resources, thus, practically taking that law off the books.
 
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Jfcarter3

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I am not a Democrat and I don’t necessarily disagree with criticism of how Obama or any one else governed. That doesn’t negate the point of my post.
 
Scrubby

Scrubby

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Jfcarter3 said:
Well, to bring it full circle, we seem to ignore laws when ICE violates them so perhaps we should lead from the front? We also seem to shut down investigations when they might lead to stuff we don't like, too. Tend to violate the Constitution at a whim as well. Moral high ground is not a strong position for MAGA.
Click to expand...
What laws specifically are you alleging that IcE is in violation of?
 
Jfcarter3

Jfcarter3

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The Constitutional ones. And the ones re killing people, just to name a couple. None of this should be a surprise.
 
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baltimorened

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Jfcarter3 said:
Just make sure you are equally loud about it.
Click to expand...
I believe that I am..but couple of things...I'm not a lawyer...I've had a lot of experiences in my life where I have felt that a legal situation was cut and dried, only to have the case decided in the opposite direction because of some element of law I didn't know.

In the case of immigration, though it is cut and dried, if you're in the country illegally we know it's a violation of law...and you are deportable. Now, there are a lot of these folks who are hard working, law abiding people who we should really consider allowing to stay. But we have to change the law for that.

In the case of ICE, it's not so cut and dried. These people are federal law enforcement officers and have "privileges" in enforcing the law which are not so cut and dried. For example, I admit that I don't know all the nuances of the debate on warrants....I know some folks on the board have been upset that ICE officers enter peoples homes without judicial warrants, and others are equally certain that these are not required...it's hard to take a position when you don't know what's right.

Same thing with the shooting in Minneapolis. People are adamant - both ways - on the legality of the shooting of Ms Goode. While I don't think the shooting was necessary, I don't know if it was legal, so I can vehemently state an opinion, but opinions aren't necessarily facts within the law....

anyway, if we always follow the law, then there should be no basis for disagreement
 
Jfcarter3

Jfcarter3

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baltimorened said:
I believe that I am..but couple of things...I'm not a lawyer...I've had a lot of experiences in my life where I have felt that a legal situation was cut and dried, only to have the case decided in the opposite direction because of some element of law I didn't know.

In the case of immigration, though it is cut and dried, if you're in the country illegally we know it's a violation of law...and you are deportable. Now, there are a lot of these folks who are hard working, law abiding people who we should really consider allowing to stay. But we have to change the law for that.

In the case of ICE, it's not so cut and dried. These people are federal law enforcement officers and have "privileges" in enforcing the law which are not so cut and dried. For example, I admit that I don't know all the nuances of the debate on warrants....I know some folks on the board have been upset that ICE officers enter peoples homes without judicial warrants, and others are equally certain that these are not required...it's hard to take a position when you don't know what's right.

Same thing with the shooting in Minneapolis. People are adamant - both ways - on the legality of the shooting of Ms Goode. While I don't think the shooting was necessary, I don't know if it was legal, so I can vehemently state an opinion, but opinions aren't necessarily facts within the law....

anyway, if we always follow the law, then there should be no basis for disagreement
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I am a lawyer and Constitutional law, Criminal law, and Criminal Procedure was drilled into our brains all the way through taking the bar. Laws have absolutely been broken regardless of qualified immunity provided to ICE officers by virtue of their jobs.
 
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What Would Jesus Do?

What Would Jesus Do?

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baltimorened said:
But we come back to most basic question, do we enforce our laws...even civil...or do we just say "what the heck it's only a civil violation so let's ignore it"? Those in the country illegally, even if they have only violated civil law are eligible for deportation...
Click to expand...
And again you distort.

The point was that civil offenders don't deserve to be treated that way. No one said "ignore it."
 
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DailyBuck7

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Jfcarter3 said:
Fair enough. I am a lawyer and Constitutional law, Criminal law, and Criminal Procedure was drilled into our brains all the way through taking the bar. Laws have absolutely been broken regardless of qualified immunity provided to ICE officers by virtue of their jobs.
Click to expand...
If you are a lawyer, specify which constitutional laws have been broken, particularly ones with wide application. Full disclosure, I am a lawyer and have sponsored two green cards.
 
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DailyBuck7

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What Would Jesus Do? said:
Why do you do that?

I say "people mostly only guilty of civil offenses" and you come back with "civil offenses for many yes, for all no."

Your presentation "sounds like" a correction of an overstatement, when there was no overstatement.
Click to expand...
Illegal entry is a first time offense with a maximum penalty of 6 months in prison. 8 U.S.C. § 1325(a ) a second illegal entry is a felony with a two-year prison term. Strangely enough assisting an illegal alien to come into the United States can be a felony with a prison term up to 10 years. I have never seen this enforced though. 8 U.S.C. § 1324,
 
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Moogy

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baltimorened said:
I believe that I am..but couple of things...I'm not a lawyer...I've had a lot of experiences in my life where I have felt that a legal situation was cut and dried, only to have the case decided in the opposite direction because of some element of law I didn't know.

In the case of immigration, though it is cut and dried, if you're in the country illegally we know it's a violation of law...and you are deportable. Now, there are a lot of these folks who are hard working, law abiding people who we should really consider allowing to stay. But we have to change the law for that.

In the case of ICE, it's not so cut and dried. These people are federal law enforcement officers and have "privileges" in enforcing the law which are not so cut and dried. For example, I admit that I don't know all the nuances of the debate on warrants....I know some folks on the board have been upset that ICE officers enter peoples homes without judicial warrants, and others are equally certain that these are not required...it's hard to take a position when you don't know what's right.

Same thing with the shooting in Minneapolis. People are adamant - both ways - on the legality of the shooting of Ms Goode. While I don't think the shooting was necessary, I don't know if it was legal, so I can vehemently state an opinion, but opinions aren't necessarily facts within the law....

anyway, if we always follow the law, then there should be no basis for disagreement
Click to expand...
No one thinks the ICE murders were anything other than ICE murders ... it's just that some people don't care that others were murdered, because they don't want people to be protesting ICE operations, and they want illegals deported uber alles ... so they will rubber stamp any actions in furtherance of this end. They're around to "own the libs" and troll them toward this end ... admitting wrongdoing is a sign of weakness, so they will just run cover for whatever their fearful leaders do.
 
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baltimorened

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Jfcarter3 said:
Fair enough. I am a lawyer and Constitutional law, Criminal law, and Criminal Procedure was drilled into our brains all the way through taking the bar. Laws have absolutely been broken regardless of qualified immunity provided to ICE officers by virtue of their jobs.
Click to expand...
then they should be charged and prosecuted
 
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baltimorened

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What Would Jesus Do? said:
Why do you do that?

I say "people mostly only guilty of civil offenses" and you come back with "civil offenses for many yes, for all no."

Your presentation "sounds like" a correction of an overstatement, when there was no overstatement.
Click to expand...
you're being a little defensive. There are many people here who are guilty of only civil offense.
 
Jfcarter3

Jfcarter3

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DailyBuck7 said:
Please be more specific and cite some case law and specific cases where you think there have been major violations.
Click to expand...
A) I don’t have the time, or honestly the desire, to point that out on a message board; B) if you’re an attorney, then you know examples without me pointing them out to you, or at least you should. And here’s the thing: seems like you’re spoiling for a debate which makes A pointless if I were to engage as I won’t likely change your mind and you certainly won’t change mine.
 
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tigres88

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Jfcarter3 said:
A) I don’t have the time, or honestly the desire, to point that out on a message board; B) if you’re an attorney, then you know examples without me pointing them out to you, or at least you should. And here’s the thing: seems like you’re spoiling for a debate which makes A pointless as I won’t likely change your mind and you certainly won’t change mine.
Click to expand...
Dude might be a "lawyer" but he's also a weird conspiracy theorist. I can't imagine anyone wanting him to be their attorney in things that matter
 
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