Toggle sidebar

The Outrageous Cost of Trump's War on Immigrants

P

PalmettoTiger1

Heisman
Jan 24, 2009
13,112
13,071
113
DailyBuck7 said:
Please be more specific and cite some case law and specific cases where you think there have been major violations.
Click to expand...
@Jfcarter3 And @DailyBuck7

Dear guys I have read a few of the post back and forth between you guys and to be clear I am a retired business fellow with experience with lawyers and tax accountants and figuring out who is telling good information and who is spreading manure.

ok let me say @jfcarter I saw where you said you where practicing Constitutional law but with my limited contacts and experience with those who practice Constitutional law I leave the thread you write thinking more of a guy who gets coffee and doughnuts for Senior lawyers. Not that I wish to be offensive but I don’t see depth on your responses.

@DailyBuck7

Cannot say I have any opinion on your level of skill but let me say I would like to see you two dudes duke it out as the skill of the arguments and the way you both would present your side of this really interests me

At the moment dailybuck7 seems to have more credibility but would love to see a great 2nd quarter and knuckle busting
 
P

PalmettoTiger1

Heisman
Jan 24, 2009
13,112
13,071
113
DailyBuck7 said:
Your post is kind of funny, in light of the fact that the Democrats when they were in office effectively wrote immigration laws out of the books. Obama using the phony pretext right to selectively prosecute, decided that functionally immigration laws were not to be enforced supposedly to save prosecution resources.An analogous situation would be if Trump stated that he didn't like a certain tax law, and he was going to decide to not enforce it in order to save prosecution resources, thus, practically taking that law off the books.
Click to expand...

ok @DailyBuck7

reading this post you are saying Obama and Biden used their discretion to enforce certain laws and ignore certain laws that suited their agenda

Does that sound right?
 
T

tigres88

All-American
Aug 7, 2022
3,363
8,706
113
PalmettoTiger1 said:
ok @DailyBuck7

reading this post you are saying Obama and Biden used their discretion to enforce certain laws and ignore certain laws that suited their agenda

Does that sound right?
Click to expand...
Or perhaps Obama was so draconian in his views and methods towards undocumented immigrants that Democrats en masse protested. It was a MAJOR story and issue across the aisle.

And yet, his methods AT THE BORDER, were absolutely nothing, and I repeat NOTHING, compared to the inhumane, unconstitutional, and illegal methods the Trump Administration has employed with ICE to send roving bands of enforcement agents across major cities in the United States to nab, apprehend, and arrest people from their homes and places of work. There are few things worse in American history (outside of the slave wagons from centuries ago) that compare.

This isn't hard.
 
Jfcarter3

Jfcarter3

All-Conference
Aug 26, 2004
2,884
4,333
93
PalmettoTiger1 said:
@Jfcarter3 And @DailyBuck7

Dear guys I have read a few of the post back and forth between you guys and to be clear I am a retired business fellow with experience with lawyers and tax accountants and figuring out who is telling good information and who is spreading manure.

ok let me say @jfcarter I saw where you said you where practicing Constitutional law but with my limited contacts and experience with those who practice Constitutional law I leave the thread you write thinking more of a guy who gets coffee and doughnuts for Senior lawyers. Not that I wish to be offensive but I don’t see depth on your responses.

@DailyBuck7

Cannot say I have any opinion on your level of skill but let me say I would like to see you two dudes duke it out as the skill of the arguments and the way you both would present your side of this really interests me

At the moment dailybuck7 seems to have more credibility but would love to see a great 2nd quarter and knuckle busting
Click to expand...
Well, assuming you were successful in business, the saying “sometimes it is better to be lucky than good” exists for a reason. Go back and re-read; never said I was practicing in Constitutional law. Said it, along with criminal law and procedure, are foundational bricks drilled into ALL attorneys’ brains and then tested on the bar. Personally, I don’t GAF of your or anyone else’s opinion. I know what I know, and I also know that those that choose not to see fact, coupled with lacking reading comprehension out of the gates, are a waste of my time.

No offense taken.
 
P

PalmettoTiger1

Heisman
Jan 24, 2009
13,112
13,071
113
Jfcarter3 said:
Well, assuming you were successful in business, the saying “sometimes it is better to be lucky than good” exists for a reason. Go back and re-read; never said I was practicing in Constitutional law. Said it, along with criminal law and procedure, are foundational bricks drilled into ALL attorneys’ brains and then tested on the bar. Personally, I don’t GAF of your or anyone else’s opinion. I know what I know, and I also know that those that choose not to see fact, coupled with lacking reading comprehension out of the gates, are a waste of my time.

No offense taken.
Click to expand...

So I see my challenge that that Duke it out with the other lawyer in public view has no taker

I feel vindicated thinking that you are an intern serving coffee and donuts to real lawyers

No offense taken
 
  • Like
Reactions: DailyBuck7
Jfcarter3

Jfcarter3

All-Conference
Aug 26, 2004
2,884
4,333
93
PalmettoTiger1 said:
So I see my challenge that that Duke it out with the other lawyer in public view has no taker

I feel vindicated thinking that you are an intern serving coffee and donuts to real lawyers

No offense taken
Click to expand...
Again, no interest in your feels. Conveniently negated to address your lack of reading comprehension - MAGA through and through. Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story. Again, not interested in arguing with people on a message board who do not choose to relinquish their position. Curious though why you’re so interested to see people argue. Suppose it’s because you can’t. Not an intern, not in a law firm any more either. I use my law degree and MBA in house.
 
D

DailyBuck7

Senior
Mar 4, 2026
599
604
93
Jfcarter3 said:
A) I don’t have the time, or honestly the desire, to point that out on a message board; B) if you’re an attorney, then you know examples without me pointing them out to you, or at least you should. And here’s the thing: seems like you’re spoiling for a debate which makes A pointless if I were to engage as I won’t likely change your mind and you certainly won’t change mine.
Click to expand...
If you are an attorney and are familiar with what you're talking about the examples should be easy to provide. To say the first fourth and fifth amendment is basically to say nothing unless it is backed up with some examples.
 
B

baltimorened

All-American
May 29, 2001
8,529
6,330
113
PalmettoTiger1 said:
@Jfcarter3 And @DailyBuck7

Dear guys I have read a few of the post back and forth between you guys and to be clear I am a retired business fellow with experience with lawyers and tax accountants and figuring out who is telling good information and who is spreading manure.

ok let me say @jfcarter I saw where you said you where practicing Constitutional law but with my limited contacts and experience with those who practice Constitutional law I leave the thread you write thinking more of a guy who gets coffee and doughnuts for Senior lawyers. Not that I wish to be offensive but I don’t see depth on your responses.

@DailyBuck7

Cannot say I have any opinion on your level of skill but let me say I would like to see you two dudes duke it out as the skill of the arguments and the way you both would present your side of this really interests me

At the moment dailybuck7 seems to have more credibility but would love to see a great 2nd quarter and knuckle busting
Click to expand...
here's my takeaway from the discussion...there is not a clear cut definitive definition, or positive proof of what constitutes a crime by ICE. Lots of posters claim there is, but even two lawyers who see the same thing won't agree
 
D

DailyBuck7

Senior
Mar 4, 2026
599
604
93
PalmettoTiger1 said:
ok @DailyBuck7

reading this post you are saying Obama and Biden used their discretion to enforce certain laws and ignore certain laws that suited their agenda

Does that sound right?
Click to expand...
Yes I'm saying that. However to be clear all presidents use their discretion to decide what the emphasis of their administration will be in terms of law enforcement. Obama, however took it to a very extreme level with respect to immigration.
 
B

bdgan

All-American
Oct 12, 2021
5,356
5,195
113
DailyBuck7 said:
Typical Lefty garbage. Here is what Chat GBT had to say. Is:
$1.2 billion ÷ 336,000 detainee-days = about $3,571 per detainee per day.


That's an extraordinarily high daily cost, but it is not $1 million per person.


If you instead divide the $1.2 billion by the approximately 21,000 people who passed through:


$1.2 billion ÷ 21,000 ≈ $57,000 per person."

Chat GPT pointed out that the facility was constructed away from any significant infrastructure. Things like water had to be trucked in. The cost can be greatly reduced overtime as the infrastructure improves.
Click to expand...
I'm sure the cost wouldn't be nearly as high if we could quickly deport them. But for some ridiculous reason these things get caught up in the courts and it take a very long time. I read that there are also issues when their country of citizenship doesn't want to take them back. That should tell you something.

A couple of things not considered in the original post. One is that we've spent a ridiculous amount of money to house and care for a large number of "undocumented" people so the cost isn't purely incremental. Another is that sending people back discourages additional people from coming. That's a pretty big savings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DailyBuck7
B

bdgan

All-American
Oct 12, 2021
5,356
5,195
113
dpic73 said:
The lefty garbage was correct by your numbers and Claude's, you just don't know how to multiply apparently.



The actual figures on Alligator Alcatraz:

A CBS News Miami financial analysis after the facility's shutdown found the total cost came to $3,571 a day per detainee, with a former acting ICE director under Obama calling it "a shocking number" and "an absolutely astounding bed rate." The total cost for the facility was estimated at $1.2 billion. CBS NewsCBS News

Annualized, $3,571/day works out to roughly $1.3 million per detainee per year — so Schlosser's "$1 million" figure is close to, if anything a slight understatement of, what investigative reporting found.

Separately, leaked FEMA/state documents showed the state was spending over $1 million per day to run the facility at points, and state officials themselves estimated costs of $411 per bed per day — compared to standard ICE detention centers, which averaged $157.20 per bed per day. The Tributaryyahoo

Why it was so expensive: the facility's remote Everglades location meant all supplies had to be trucked in, including food, water, and generators for electricity — plus large fixed contracts (temporary tents, portable toilets, staffing) spread over a fluctuating and often much-lower-than-capacity detainee population, which drives the per-detainee cost way up compared to a permanent facility running near capacity. yahoo

So: the $1M/detainee/year figure doesn't apply to ICE detention generally (that's closer to $50–75k/year), but it's a solidly sourced number specifically for Alligator Alcatraz, backed by CBS's post-closure financial analysis.

Click to expand...
That's ridiculous. The facility was certainly remote but it's not like it's 500 miles from civilization. Have you ever driven the Tamiami Trail from Naples to Miami? You can drive from Alligator Alcatraz to Marco town center in an hour. The cost was probably high because there were not enough people being held to pay for the scale of the facility.
 
M

Moogy

All-American
Jul 28, 2017
7,509
5,359
113
tigres88 said:
Or perhaps Obama was so draconian in his views and methods towards undocumented immigrants that Democrats en masse protested. It was a MAJOR story and issue across the aisle.

And yet, his methods AT THE BORDER, were absolutely nothing, and I repeat NOTHING, compared to the inhumane, unconstitutional, and illegal methods the Trump Administration has employed with ICE to send roving bands of enforcement agents across major cities in the United States to nab, apprehend, and arrest people from their homes and places of work. There are few things worse in American history (outside of the slave wagons from centuries ago) that compare.

This isn't hard.
Click to expand...

As always, tigres88 regales us with his histrionics personality disorder. You always turn it up to, not even 11, but 12. Crowned drama queens look at you in amazement and with a deep sense of inadequacy.
 
M

Moogy

All-American
Jul 28, 2017
7,509
5,359
113
bdgan said:
Like when Michael Byrd killed Ashli Babbitt?
Click to expand...
Yes. Except completely different.

One involved a mob breaking glass in an effort to bypass a blockaded door leading to government leaders, while they ignored warnings to stop doing so, as they actually entered into the area they were blocked from entering ... in the Capitol building.

The others involved a woman who was turning AWAY from authorities who were shouting conflicting information, and who tried to get in front of her to prevent her from fleeing, as she had been doing nothing but protesting officers' actions in a public area ... and someone who was simply trying to tend to another protestor, again in a public area, who was being roughly treated/abused by authorities, and who "complied" with their abuse on him, before they shot him for no reason at all.

But, other than being completely different, with one being justifiable, and the other 2 being murder ... you nailed it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dpic73
B

bdgan

All-American
Oct 12, 2021
5,356
5,195
113
Moogy said:
Yes. Except completely different.
Click to expand...
Except that it's not much different.

Babbitt wasn't armed and I don't think the other protesters were armed unless you count the flagpole that Chad Barrett Jones used to smash glass. He was properly convicted on multiple felonies for doing that.

I think the shootings of Good & Pretti were both wrong just like I think the shooting of Babbitt was wrong. In a perfect world taw enforcement would have done a better job to deescalate. That said I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. In all cases the victims were warned and didn't comply and any hesitation could cost them their own lives.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: dpic73
M

Moogy

All-American
Jul 28, 2017
7,509
5,359
113
bdgan said:
Except that it's not much different.

Babbitt wasn't armed and I don't think the other protesters were armed unless you count the flagpole that Chad Barrett Jones used to smash glass. He was properly convicted on multiple felonies for doing that.

I think the shootings of Good & Pretti were both wrong just like I think the shooting of Babbitt was wrong. In a perfect world taw enforcement would have done a better job to deescalate. That said I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. In all cases the victims were warned and didn't comply and any hesitation could cost them their own lives.
Click to expand...

These are desperate, futile attempts at equivocation. The details I provided are meaningful, and controlling, legally. Your attempted distinctions are either factually incorrect or legally irrelevant.

We've spent a decade dealing with this Trump-fueled psychosis promoted by the Orange Fuhrer himself, and championed by his sycophants (who totes don't like him, but they will abandon reality in order to back him) ... we're tired of it. It's time to get back to some semblance of normalcy. All you extremist whackos need to go away or seek treatment, and leave the world to the well-adjusted.
 
Last edited:
What Would Jesus Do?

What Would Jesus Do?

All-Conference
Nov 28, 2010
35,607
4,902
113
baltimorened said:
defensive again... if someone is making a case that we could save money by not imprisoning/detaining migrants, than the major point is saving money. Well, we could save money in the other way as well.
Click to expand...
Setting the record straight again.

You are quite capable of making solid comments. But you also try to get away with misrepresenting the facts. I wish you'd stick to being an honest debater. Much more fun, and much more informative.
 
dpic73

dpic73

Heisman
Jul 27, 2005
34,912
31,757
113
bdgan said:
Except that it's not much different.

Babbitt wasn't armed and I don't think the other protesters were armed unless you count the flagpole that Chad Barrett Jones used to smash glass. He was properly convicted on multiple felonies for doing that.

I think the shootings of Good & Pretti were both wrong just like I think the shooting of Babbitt was wrong. In a perfect world taw enforcement would have done a better job to deescalate. That said I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. In all cases the victims were warned and didn't comply and any hesitation could cost them their own lives.
Click to expand...
You have zero credibility if you claim to not understand why Babbitt absolutely deserved the bullet she received, zero.

How convenient of you to forget that 150 officers had already been beaten out front before the mob busted out the Capitol windows to illegally trespass while chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and "Where's Nancy?" They then reached the last barrier before the Chamber where they busted out the window after being warned to stay back and when Babbitt jumped through with bad intentions, you think the officer was supposed to know in a split second that she was an unarmed female? smfh.

Tell me bdgan, what should he have done, given her a hug while the rest of the mob broke through? Waited to see if they killed people in the Chamber?

Dude, you are laughably obtuse.
 
B

baltimorened

All-American
May 29, 2001
8,529
6,330
113
dpic73 said:
You have zero credibility if you claim to not understand why Babbitt absolutely deserved the bullet she received, zero.

How convenient of you to forget that 150 officers had already been beaten out front before the mob busted out the Capitol windows to illegally trespass while chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and "Where's Nancy?" They then reached the last barrier before the Chamber where they busted out the window after being warned to stay back and when Babbitt jumped through with bad intentions, you think the officer was supposed to know in a split second that she was an unarmed female? smfh.

Tell me bdgan, what should he have done, given her a hug while the rest of the mob broke through? Waited to see if they killed people in the Chamber?

Dude, you are laughably obtuse.
Click to expand...
dpic, little chance that woman, unarmed, crashing through a window was going to kill any of the men in the chamber. Realistically, someone unarmed attacking an armed person is not a smart way to a long life....see some of the ICE encounters...you seem to have had different viewpoints about how officers were to know in a spilt second the intentions in those encounters.


Now, should she have been there, NO! Did she deserve to be shot? Apparently you think so...other's not so much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdgan
dpic73

dpic73

Heisman
Jul 27, 2005
34,912
31,757
113
baltimorened said:
dpic, little chance that woman, unarmed, crashing through a window was going to kill any of the men in the chamber. Realistically, someone unarmed attacking an armed person is not a smart way to a long life....see some of the ICE encounters...you seem to have had different viewpoints about how officers were to know in a spilt second the intentions in those encounters.


Now, should she have been there, NO! Did she deserve to be shot? Apparently you think so...other's not so much.
Click to expand...
- 150 officers ALREADY beaten out front
- Breaking and entering the Capitol chanting Hang Mike Pence
- The tip of the spear with a mob with bad intentions behind her jumps through the broken window leading to House chambers
- He's by himself after the mob has already overwhlmed police

He should have patted her down and been nice to her!

You make me laugh
 
B

baltimorened

All-American
May 29, 2001
8,529
6,330
113
dpic73 said:
- 150 officers ALREADY beaten out front
- Breaking and entering the Capitol chanting Hang Mike Pence
- The tip of the spear with a mob with bad intentions behind her jumps through the broken window leading to House chambers
- He's by himself after the mob has already overwhlmed police

He should have patted her down and been nice to her!

You make me laugh
Click to expand...
well, I'm just trying to put your comments into perspective....it's ok for an officer to shoot an unarmed woman coming through a window because of only a moment to think,. But an ICE agent seeing a car coming toward him, that's different...did the guy inside the capitol pulling the trigger know how many officers had been "beaten" out front? Every person at the front end of violence is "by himself" no matter how many people are around him. Been in combat? You can have an entire rifle company around you, but you're by yourself in the battle.

That officer in the capitol was in no more danger than the agent in front of goode's car....

He didn't need to pay her down initially...you do what police officers do every day, restrain her and put her into handcuffs....

In reality, probably Babbitt and Goode should still be alive...
 
dpic73

dpic73

Heisman
Jul 27, 2005
34,912
31,757
113
baltimorened said:
well, I'm just trying to put your comments into perspective....it's ok for an officer to shoot an unarmed woman coming through a window because of only a moment to think,. But an ICE agent seeing a car coming toward him, that's different...did the guy inside the capitol pulling the trigger know how many officers had been "beaten" out front? Every person at the front end of violence is "by himself" no matter how many people are around him. Been in combat? You can have an entire rifle company around you, but you're by yourself in the battle.

That officer in the capitol was in no more danger than the agent in front of goode's car....

He didn't need to pay her down initially...you do what police officers do every day, restrain her and put her into handcuffs....

In reality, probably Babbitt and Goode should still be alive...
Click to expand...
Do you not believe the officers communicated via two-way radio so they knew what was happening in the front?

Did Renee Good have a bloodthirsty mob of thousands, enraged by a LIE, behind her ready to assault those officers with spear-tipped flags, bear spray and tazers? Reminder that it was just her and her girlfriend, who was outside the car and she was shot after smiling at the officer and saying she wasn't mad at him and then turning her wheels hard right to avoid him after he stupidly jumped in front of her car while filming her with his phone in one hand and his gun in the other.

Why do you keep acting like Babbitt was alone and not followed by a mob who would also break into the Chambers and possibly kill members of Congress? He was the last officer in their way and again, they had ALREADY beaten 150 of his fellow policemen out front so how can you lie and say he wasn't in danger? Was he supposed to wait to see if they were going to beat him senseless too and/or kill members of Congress first before he acted? He would have abdicated his charge to protect and defend if he just waved them through.

How would you handle it if a bloodthirsty mob showed up at your house claiming you stole something that you didn't and one of them broke your picture window and jumped into your living room with bad intentions? Would you care if the first one was female or unarmed? What would you do Ned, shoot or offer her milk and cookies?


Yes, Lieutenant Michael Byrd was aware that officers were being overrun and assaulted at other entry points. [1, 2]
In his public statements and interviews following the incident, Lt. Michael Byrd detailed exactly what information he possessed via his police radio and surroundings before Ashli Babbitt and the mob reached the Speaker's Lobby doors: [1, 2]
  • Radio Broadcasts of Attacks: Byrd stated that his police radio was flooded with alarming transmissions. He heard reports of multiple barricaded areas being breached, officers being overrun, and screaming officers calling for help. [1, 2, 3]

  • Report of Shots Fired: He also heard a specific radio report stating that shots had been fired through the main doors onto the floor of the House Chamber. While investigators later determined this report was false, Byrd believed at the time that the mob was actively using firearms. [1, 2, 3]

  • Awareness of the Immediate Doors: While he knew from the radio that the building was being violently compromised, Byrd noted that he had a high barricade set up and lacked a visual line of sight into the hallway on the other side of the Speaker's Lobby doors. He stated he was unaware that three tactical officers had been stationed directly on the other side of the glass doors until they were heavily outnumbered and stepped aside to let the mob approach. [1]
Because of the radio updates indicating widespread officer casualties and breaches, Byrd stated he believed the Speaker's Lobby doors were the "last line of defense" protecting the 60 to 80 lawmakers and staff trapped inside the chamber behind him. [1]

Babbitt got what she deserved, period. Renee did not.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Tiger Illustrated

Latest

  1. 01 Tiger Illustrated Football MONDAY CLEMSON FOOTBALL NUGGETS: Intel on travel logistics with Cal trip, Corian Gipson, UNC's long bus ride, transfer DBs
  2. 02 Tiger Illustrated Football Recruiting MONDAY INSIDER
  3. 03 Tiger Illustrated Football A new way of looking at this Clemson football team
  4. 04 Tiger Illustrated Football Clemson Football: The Day After
  5. 05 Tiger Illustrated Football Baby steps become bigger steps against the Baby Blue with 28-20 Clemson win
Top Bottom