Yes. Preston has an optional Weds and has had other, extra options on Saturdays where we aren't travelling / playing.
For free.
⚽️⚽️⚽️…Delusional Youth Soccer Parent Thread
- Thread starter lawpoke87
- Start date
Yes. Preston has an optional Weds and has had other, extra options on Saturdays where we aren't travelling / playing.
For free.
Other than the 2013s, will TSC GA teams have a realistic shot at the playoffs? Because if no one in Oklahoma playing at a high level is likely to make the playoffs (aside from maybe a rare OEFC team), then don’t we need a stronger community strategy?
If we start with the assumption that no one here is likely to qualify, then those “in the know” will probably avoid high-level local teams, go to Dallas, or join WSA just for bragging rights — to say they play for the “best club in Tulsa.” Even as a WSA family member and advocate, I think we can do better for all Tulsa clubs. But that requires us to think beyond any single club.
I realize I’m probably in the minority on this, but I still believe it’s possible, albeit unlikely, to build a better, more unified vision for youth soccer in Tulsa, at least on the girls’ side.
Side note: I was surprised by the idea that girls want to win more than boys. In my limited research, it seems boys tend to show a higher competitive drive. That lines up with what I’ve seen anecdotally too — but
.No other GA teams will make the playoffs. We aren’t a lock for the playoffs. Top 4 teams in our league are tough (all top 50). Only 2 teams from each conference automatically qualify.Other than the 2013s, will TSC GA teams have a realistic shot at the playoffs? Because if no one in Oklahoma playing at a high level is likely to make the playoffs (aside from maybe a rare OEFC team), then don’t we need a stronger community strategy?
If we start with the assumption that no one here is likely to qualify, then those “in the know” will probably avoid high-level local teams, go to Dallas, or join WSA just for bragging rights — to say they play for the “best club in Tulsa.” Even as a WSA family member and advocate, I think we can do better for all Tulsa clubs. But that requires us to think beyond any single club.
I realize I’m probably in the minority on this, but I still believe it’s possible, albeit unlikely, to build a better, more unified vision for youth soccer in Tulsa, at least on the girls’ side.
Side note: I was surprised by the idea that girls want to win more than boys. In my limited research, it seems boys tend to show a higher competitive drive. That lines up with what I’ve seen anecdotally too — but
Let not forget Blitz has some super teams coming up. Why should they be "forced" to either leave Tulsa or play for a different club?
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When we left it was before TSC lost ECNL and it has never really been a desire to come back and play for WSA.
I think Blitz is an excellent option for families and I speak as someone who has been a member of the club.
My point, though, is that without a unified community strategy, we have no clear path to competitive success at the highest levels (e.g., GA/ECNL) in Tulsa. If we agree that reaching RL-level national championships is the goal, we already have clubs that have achieved that and proven it’s possible. Perhaps WSA can build on that foundation and create a nationally competitive set of NL teams, just as they did for RL. Still, I intuit that will be difficult, if not impossible, without a broader strategic framework in place.
We need parent education, cross-community partnerships, shared systems models, and braided funding shared throughout the market.
Essentially, the kind of collaborative ecosystem that I imagine could supercharge the community. But that begins with acknowledging the importance of this priority and fostering a culture of collective purpose. Right now, I’m convinced those prerequisites are missing.
Why do you think that of the algorithm? Are you saying that b/c you are predicting a weaker schedule?
Yes, The bottom half of our schedule doesn't have the depth.
Why do we have leagues anyway? Families pay to go to showcases and tournaments. Super Copa is the greatest youth soccer tournament going. You play qualifying games then get seeded. I would be a fan of Showcases that can seed teams and let like teams play like teams. Scouts would know where to go based on the player level they are recruiting. FCD shouldn't drive here to beat a team 6-0. Louisiana shouldn't drive here to lose 9-1. Stop wasting parents money on games that don't matter. The algorithm works pretty well outside right after tryouts. Match teams up and not clubs. Let players play for a coach. Let teams play good games. Let parents spend money wisely. If team want to have friendlies so be it. A coach develops a team and looses them after his/her 2 years is up with them?? How does that make sense?
Speaking of showcases and wasting money…any showcase prior to U15 is a complete waste of money. Colleges aren’t recruiting U14 and to be honest they’re barely recruiting U15.
Scheels is correct. The better the teams the more scouts. I’ve seen high level U16 games at showcases and nationals with 40-50 college scouts on the sidelines. All in their little white folding chairs.
When your girls hit U15-U16 they will make team sheets and take to every game. Has the players picture, position, height, grad year, gpa and social media information. Those are given to any college recruiter at the game.
Scheels is correct. The better the teams the more scouts. I’ve seen high level U16 games at showcases and nationals with 40-50 college scouts on the sidelines. All in their little white folding chairs.
When your girls hit U15-U16 they will make team sheets and take to every game. Has the players picture, position, height, grad year, gpa and social media information. Those are given to any college recruiter at the game.
Absolutely. But a lot of teams spend a ton of money playing league games that aren’t competitive. Traveling from Houston to Denver to lose by 7-8 goals.
Within 2 goals. Some games could be different for weird circumstances. But I would never say we played a competitive game and won or lost 4+ goals.
We're in the toughest conf in NL. We're still in 14th place. The majority of our games have been competitive.
Why do you think Ok teams can't compete in tx NL?
Challenge is 20th in the nation.
FCD is 36th.
Sting Austin is 21st
We have 100% taken beatings from THE ABSOLUTE BEST IN THE NATION. We will likely take a beating from Solar, too.
But stop acting like nobody in Tulsa can be competitive and that everyone belongs in GA.
For comparison:
I really don't give 2 $hits where your team plays. I care about the TSC 2013's and my daughter.
Actually, that’s exactly the kind of team we were on before. Last fall in league play, my daughter’s 13G team went 7-0-0 with 73 goals for and 1 against. It was an over-stacked travel rec squad that loved the game and wanted to stay together. By the end of the season, the team split, and it didn't take long for those girls to end up at each of the three top Tulsa clubs we discuss here. Each club ended up with two girls apiece for their top teams, and about three more went to your clubs second team.
Winning is fun. Dominating is fun. But at that point my daughter wasn't being stretched, and the games weren’t much fun for the teams we were playing against to say the least.
My wife and I talked with her about the “big fish, small pond” thing, and gave her the choice. She wanted a bigger pond.
So last spring we were grateful she received the invitation to join Joao's talented FC Tulsa ’13s. A steep learning curve, but under his coaching she grew quickly. Training with older, more advanced girls helped push her, and the schedule was tough. We knew it would be a grind. She struggled, like every kid does, but she leaned into it.
Our mantra was simple: challenge brings discomfort, discomfort builds grit, and building grit leads to growth.
She thrived in the environment. As the older girls hit big growth spurts, we decided to go on-age at WSA, which has that same gritty attitude, coaches who care about development, and players who love the demand.
My goal for her to understand is that working hard is a big part of trying to achieve something difficult. And in the scenarios where she isn’t successful, that’s part of it too. Sometimes you try to do everything right and life still sucks.
When I look at it this way, the best-case scenario is that we continue the developmental path we are on, surrounded by a group of girls and families who bring great energy and shared purpose, and that it all adds up to a team that’s competitive in Texas NL next year.
But, honestly, "the worst case scenario" still sounds pretty great. My daughter gains amazing friends, strong coaching, and the chance to play some of the best competition at our level... all while I get the honor of being present beside her while she builds the kind of core memories she’ll carry for life.
Sounds like either way it’s going to be a great year for us!
It doesn't make sense sadly because it isn't mean to make sense. This is what happens when free-market capitalism meets youth development without counterweights like public investment, regulation, or shared infrastructure.
We get redundancy, uneven competition, and inflated costs that parents and clubs will continue to buy into, because access and prestige feel scarce. Fragmentation + exclusivity + status signaling = revenue.
a quick search shows private equity is doing roll ups in youth sports. Best case scenario we get better fields, facilities, tech, platforms, etc. long term. Pessimistic take is that our kids will grow up in a world that has an even larger divide when it comes to access to higher level youth sports and this will be based largely on ability to pay.
Is that the team you all played the 1st game of the season that I was the center on. That team is crazy good...like insanely crazy good and I had no idea they were also a younger team playing up.This is team we are playing:
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Do you have a source for the top 2014 #1 team in country that is different?
As far as I know a wide range of Texas clubs (and some Florida/Cali clubs?) take the strategy of playing up early into RL for their top u12 2014 teams. I believe they see it as a way to get the girls tactically and technically used to the new formations, bigger fields, and faster pace. Only a few clubs do it due to the difficulty and there are also arguments against it from a developmental perspective (less touches, etc), but I'm a fan of it for us. It looks like the current clubs doing this are FCD, Sting Austin, Solar, Challenge, and Sting Black, Albion, and Dallas Surf. Their "preECNL" teams are still very strong, but not the same level as the teams they send up to play RL.
So I'm confused at what you're saying. Are you saying the big Texas clubs have 2014 teams out there that are a higher level than these 2014 teams playing up in the RL Texas/Ntx/stx conferences? A quick glance at the top Texas 2014 teams tells me that over half are playing up in RL and all of the 'big club' top teams are doing it with the exception of HTX who can't b/c they are GA. The other Oklahoma 2014 teams don't often get a chance to play the very top Texas 2014 teams and when they do, they aren't winning. Not to say they can't b/c those games are competitive and Energy just tied Solars 2014 RL13NTX teamSo it's within reach, but again this level of nuance is hard to get to when you just look at scoreline+club name and don't acknowledge the difference in level and record.
Which brings me to:
Yes, you can absolutely compare competition levels and records. But it’s not controversial to acknowledge that there’s a clear difference between playing a club’s top team and its second or third team. If we say “we beat FCD 5–0,” yet our top team played their second or third side, then we’ve crossed into the realm of either misunderstanding or propaganda if we let people believe we faced their best. I’m all for celebrating wins and progress, but if we care about an accurate picture of where our team or club truly stands, we have to be transparent about the level of competition we’re facing.
@lawpoke87 You have a lot of experience in the Texas conference -- can you clarify misunderstandings I may have regarding the Texas team's strategy? I think it's important to understand their development strategy so that we can at least be honest in where we are as a community and what we can do to elevate to the next level.
And I'll tell you the biggest difference between that team and your team...it's technical skill. And if I were to guess it's part of the program at FCD to develop these kids with a great first touch and the ability to pass and connect early on. Tactically I think your coaches are teaching the right things but the difference in technical skill (especially in that 1st game) was night and day between the two teams (and your team's improvement in that area over the season until now has been stark).
A lot of that has to do with individual time on the ball at age 6, 7 and 8 and then a club's (and coach's) philosophy to not chase results in academy play or tournaments. Focus is on touches and individual skill development.
As for the Pre-ECNL stuff and playing up...all the clubs do it. Why? Because it gives parents something to pay a little extra for and to put a little more drive into their 10 and 11 year olds. TSC did/does it for sure. The number of U12 and below games I referee where a team has a "Pre-ECNL" in their team name is staggering.
And I don't know why that guy is putting everyone on blast on this thread. I watched 10 years of club soccer from my son being on the 5th team when he started to 1st/2nd team when he finished his youth stuff and then I referee a lot of soccer including ECNL/RL, EA/GA NPL, and any other letters of the alphabet.
Nice volley to someone getting a little emo about the debate.
Yes, that is the team we played 1st game of the season. The schedule just came out that way and for our second game we faced Sting Royal's 2013 RL team who is approximately equivalent to a #13 in nation 2014 team. So .. new players, coaches, formations, positions, tactics, etc. all get baptismal fire out of the gate.
I came away with the same impression after that game. I believe if we ever want to even think about competing with those clubs we have to systematize making technical skills absolutely non-negotiable early on. Really emphasizing first touch, using both feet, and all the foundational stuff. Those teams are trained to capitalize on those small mistakes (e.g., slow or heavy first touch) and do it with real intensity.
100% agree. I think it really can be that simple, but the reason it is so difficult to implement is that the marketing-driven recruiting dynamic is at odds with that goal. You can see the how easily the battle for the narrative happens in real time on this board. If all clubs, coaches, parents, etc. operated in a good faith model it would work, but they don't so it doesn't. That isn't a dig at any individual club, parent (no one should feel it's bad to advocate for one's own family), or coach, but a statement about the system itself, what it allows, and what it encourages.
I know, right! It's natural for community members to want to feel special. And simple messages are the easiest to market (e.g., XYZ league is the absolute top of the pyramid!). I believe it is possible to both keep an eye on a long term goal (e.g., XYZ league/club level) and also incentivize the incremental steps known to get you there.
I think he said in one earlier post he likes to be sparky and troll, so I think that is part of his vibe.
Not my style, but it sure has generated a lot of content. 
He’s also probably hearing things in real time that challenge the worldview he’s built (or been given). 
. That’s one of the downsides of oversimplifying things.. it’s easy to market a simple message, but those ideas don’t always hold up under the harsh light of rational inspection or direct experience.
I am really glad my daughter chose a more individual sport in swimming. She has club options in the Tulsa area (Jenks Trojan SC and Trident AC (Owasso) are 2 others in the area along with Bixby). And she probably has those options now that she has made worked hard and is pushing the top swimmers at those clubs. She likes her Swim Tulsa coach and it's a plus she is also the Union HS coach...plus she has friends. Point is, my daughter's work and performance (times) have put her at the top of her age group at her club. In the cutthroat world of club soccer, sometimes that work and performance don't always get rewarded with roster spots on the top teams even though it's deserved. But performance eval in soccer is also somewhat subjective and not always measured by stats...way more subjective than swimming where your times are the measure. She probably started as the 4th or 5th swimmer in her age group and now she is the tops, but on top of that the coach has sort of tabbed her as the leader of that group of swimmers and even some of the parents are like "yeah, so and so is focused on catching L"...and it's great they all have that motivation and push each other. I honestly never saw that consistently in the soccer community. Anytime a player felt pushed or like they might be falling behind, they left for another club.
Bordare, unfortunately in soccer, especially in the US, it's all about results and the potential $ it brings in. I have used Geno Auriemma as an example in here before about watching him coach and lose his mind on his team when they were winning a game by 30 pts. Because I realized for him, it wasn't about necessarily winning in those moments, it was about execution and staying focused. Sure you're up by 30 but my PG just had a terrible turnover because they didn't stay focused. I realized he was coaching to perfection for his team. And you can see this in youth soccer with international coaches coaching here. They know at the u14 levels and younger, results don't matter a bunch except in the amount of $ that they may bring in with more wins or the amount of money they may lose. I saw it with my son's team when Donovan Ricketts was the coach. He flat out told parents he didn't care if they won a game. He worked on fundamentals in every practice. He didn't yell at the boys if they made a mistake in a game. And the boys responded well to that. He had a formula for every game in terms of substitutions and playing time and he stuck to it regardless of the situation (as long as the players showed up to the game). And it's easy for parents to trust someone with Ricketts' resume to trust him to know what he was doing and his approach...this is something I don't think a lot of parents have the patience for if they don't see the W/L results right away. And when you throw in the amount of $ they're investing in their kids' development and happiness, it makes that patience wear a little thinner a little faster.
Bordare, unfortunately in soccer, especially in the US, it's all about results and the potential $ it brings in. I have used Geno Auriemma as an example in here before about watching him coach and lose his mind on his team when they were winning a game by 30 pts. Because I realized for him, it wasn't about necessarily winning in those moments, it was about execution and staying focused. Sure you're up by 30 but my PG just had a terrible turnover because they didn't stay focused. I realized he was coaching to perfection for his team. And you can see this in youth soccer with international coaches coaching here. They know at the u14 levels and younger, results don't matter a bunch except in the amount of $ that they may bring in with more wins or the amount of money they may lose. I saw it with my son's team when Donovan Ricketts was the coach. He flat out told parents he didn't care if they won a game. He worked on fundamentals in every practice. He didn't yell at the boys if they made a mistake in a game. And the boys responded well to that. He had a formula for every game in terms of substitutions and playing time and he stuck to it regardless of the situation (as long as the players showed up to the game). And it's easy for parents to trust someone with Ricketts' resume to trust him to know what he was doing and his approach...this is something I don't think a lot of parents have the patience for if they don't see the W/L results right away. And when you throw in the amount of $ they're investing in their kids' development and happiness, it makes that patience wear a little thinner a little faster.