+1 for the UT Vols

[Beretta.sixpack]

check this out.....17 those bastards in Wisconsin trying to dictate the hardcore south

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarne...ennessee-refuses-to-ban-pre-game-prayers.html

 

[Maroon Eagle]

The thing I find funny about this is that there's no pregame prayers at MSU because pastors didn't like the student section shouting GTHOM.

 

[coackjek]

The thing I find funny about this is that there's no pregame prayers at MSU because pastors didn't like the student section shouting GTHOM.

I'm a minister, student minister, I don't agree with them saying it and never said it myself while a student but that being the reason that they will not pray before a game is silly to me. I am there every saturday and I chose not to say "we're gonna beat the H*** out of you" or spell it out, but I always support my university and always will. But if given the opportunity to pray I would in a heartbeat. I see the only reason for them making this decision based on the band leading in the chants. But not for the student section doing this during one game during one season of play. When you do that you're not praying for the salvation of the folks in the stands but for the safety of the student athletes on the field and promote sportsmanship.

Kudos to UT for standing their ground.

 

[Dawg Jurist]

No one is stopping anyone from praying for anything at anytime anywhere. When a player is down on the field, I say a personal prayer. If I see an ambulance race past me in traffic, I say a personal prayer. Prayer doesn't have to be done over a PA system. Again, if you want to pray at Davis Wade anytime for anything, who's stopping you?

 

[Vivace]

Would it be 'Kudos to UT' if they decided to pray to Allah?

The fact is that the law isn't on their side. 'Standing their ground' will result in a lawsuit, which they will lose along with the couple million in lawyer fees to fight it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Independent_School_Dist._v._Doe

 

[Cousin Jeffrey]

The Establishment Clause says ONLY that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

A prayer over a loud speaker at a football game does not equal Congress making a law establishing a religion.

I understand the principle of legal precedent, but sometimes you just gotta go back to the Constitution. And no, I don't know all the legal cases regarding this. But I do know what the Constitution says about it. There's nothing about a public prayer (even at a government-sponsored institution) that violates the Establishment Clause, if you read it literally.

 

[AssEndDawg]

The Establishment Clause says ONLY that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

A prayer over a loud speaker at a football game does not equal Congress making a law establishing a religion.

I understand the principle of legal precedent, but sometimes you just gotta go back to the Constitution. And no, I don't know all the legal cases regarding this. But I do know what the Constitution says about it. There's nothing about a public prayer (even at a government-sponsored institution) that violates the Establishment Clause, if you read it literally.

The intent was to not have a government sponsored religion. the law on this issue has been decided and Vivace is correct. Bottom line, if you are a State run institution you can't be in the religion business. I find this particular issue a hilarious point in American History because somehow a number of good, Christian folk have completely failed to learn, and thus forgotten, that the protestant religions were the biggest supporters of the separation clause. Because if there were to be a state supported religion it would have been the Catholic church.

Why does anyone need, or even want, a state run institution teaching their children about religion? Lord knows it's not what I want for my family. I can do just fine teaching that part of life on my own without needing MSU to get in the mix. Let's just play some football on Saturday.

 

[Dawg Jurist]

^^Without getting bogged down in the technical aspects of the deal, THIS!

Let's just play football . . . and say go to hell Ole Miss . . . and fight like H-E-L-L . . . and F*CK LS*. Leave the organized religion to Sunday School. Saturdays in the fall are for FOOTBALL.

 

[shsdawg]

Would it be 'Kudos to UT' if they decided to pray to Allah?

The fact is that the law isn't on their side. 'Standing their ground' will result in a lawsuit, which they will lose along with the couple million in lawyer fees to fight it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Independent_School_Dist._v._Doe

If the vast majority of UT fans were Muslim then no, I would have no problem at all with it. As long as they let me say my own prayers without interferance in private.

 

[shsdawg]

The intent was to not have a government sponsored religion. the law on this issue has been decided and Vivace is correct. Bottom line, if you are a State run institution you can't be in the religion business. I find this particular issue a hilarious point in American History because somehow a number of good, Christian folk have completely failed to learn, and thus forgotten, that the protestant religions were the biggest supporters of the separation clause. Because if there were to be a state supported religion it would have been the Catholic church.

Why does anyone need, or even want, a state run institution teaching their children about religion? Lord knows it's not what I want for my family. I can do just fine teaching that part of life on my own without needing MSU to get in the mix. Let's just play some football on Saturday.

Re-read your history. Catholics were persecuted BIG TIME in Colonial America, even in Maryland eventually. The same was true in the England the Colonists came from. If there had been an established Church in early America it woud have certainly been Protestant. The arguement at the time of the founding of the US would have been WHICH Protestant Church it would have be. THAT was what led to the seperation clause. One thing is certain from reading the history of the time: The Founders would have been appaled at their work being used to banish all mention of religion from public life. They would be in revolt again I think if they were around today.

 

[DerHntr]

Let me say first that I like your signature gif.

I do find it awesome that you are talking about teaching religion with it below the text though.

 

[coackjek]

Would it be 'Kudos to UT' if they decided to pray to Allah?

Absoulutely! I would just choose not to participate. we all have that choice. I'd say kudos for them standing up for what they believe in, but honestly do you think this would even be an issue if they were praying to Allah, Buddah, etc...? Would the FFRF would send the letter to an organization that was having prayers to other gods in their pregame?

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Absoulutely! I would just choose not to participate. we all have that choice. I'd say kudos for them standing up for what they believe in, but honestly do you think this would even be an issue if they were praying to Allah, Buddah, etc...? Would the FFRF would send the letter to an organization that was having prayers to other gods in their pregame?

Um...if they were praying to Allah or Buddha Christians would have shut it down years ago. Remember, this is the same state that tried to prevent Muslims from opening a mosque even though they had the land.

The best solution is for some organization to privately host a prayer at a tailgate prior to the game, at a location where lots of people can hear.

 

[coackjek]

Um...if they were praying to Allah or Buddha Christians would have shut it down years ago. Remember, this is the same state that tried to prevent Muslims from opening a mosque even though they had the land.

The best solution is for some organization to privately host a prayer at a tailgate prior to the game, at a location where lots of people can hear.

I agree on the fact that this would not happen in tenn. but in an area out of the south not so much of a stretch. And I agree with your solution as well. But you will still run into issues because it is still on public grounds especially if you use a PA. If this is the case why don't you see the Baptist Student Union, Weasly foundation, Catholic, Muslim, Pagan, Wiccan groups on campus doing this already? I know for a fact the Baptist Student Union tailgates and when I was a student there they did not pray before the game. If nothing has changed, you may be on to something. Not sure about the other campus ministries.

 

[skb124]

Well this country wasn't formed with Muslim or Buddhist values. It was formed with Christian values. In God We Trust, One Nation Under God... It's sad the PC crap tries to suppress Christians now. You think if we were in Iraq or China they would keep from having prayers because Christians were upset about it? Like someone else said people don't have to close their eyes and pray if they don't want to, but I'm glad Tennessee is doing what they feel is right.

 

[VegasDawg13]

Well this country wasn't formed with Muslim or Buddhist values. It was formed with Christian values. In God We Trust, One Nation Under God... It's sad the PC crap tries to suppress Christians now. You think if we were in Iraq or China they would keep from having prayers because Christians were upset about it? Like someone else said people don't have to close their eyes and pray if they don't want to, but I'm glad Tennessee is doing what they feel is right.

So we need to aspire to be like Iraq and China???

Holy ****, I think I've just seen the single worst argument anyone has ever made on the internet.

 

[AssEndDawg]

You are just wrong...

Well this country wasn't formed with Muslim or Buddhist values. It was formed with Christian values. In God We Trust, One Nation Under God... It's sad the PC crap tries to suppress Christians now. You think if we were in Iraq or China they would keep from having prayers because Christians were upset about it? Like someone else said people don't have to close their eyes and pray if they don't want to, but I'm glad Tennessee is doing what they feel is right.

You are, quite simply, wrong. This is partly what is wrong with allowing religion into the schools. They tend to "revise" the history. First off, half of the founding fathers were deists, not Christians. And Benjamin Franklin was a scientist, womanizer, and generally believed to be an atheist although he never said given the lack of love for non-believers. Our country in no way was founded on Christian values, that is a revision to history that arose in the 1950's. To be blunt, our country was founded on English Common Law with changes to ensure certain freedoms.

"In God We Trust" was no where to be found until 1956. The founding motto of the United States is "E pluribus unum" which means "Out of many, one". "One Nation Under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance by Eisenhower in 1954. The original pledge, itself not written until 1892, reads, "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."So in reality the only "founding principals" regarding religion were to guarantee your freedom of religion and then to make sure that the government didn't interfere. We should really respect THOSE principals and not try to change history to suit our views.

I am a Christian and I want to raise my family in a Christian household but I respect people of other religions and I know how I would feel if I was forced to endure their rituals for random public events. I don't NEED the government to push religion on me or my family and I don't WANT the people in the government deciding what is or isn't right in terms of religious beliefs. I want them to stay completely out of it because that protects MY beliefs as well as a Muslim. Christianity is shrinking in the US and there will come a time when we are no longer the majority. I don't want us intertwining religion into government and then one day waking up to what a huge mistake that was when we aren't the people holding the leash anymore.