$15 dollar hr minimum wage?

WildcatFan1982

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If you save $100 per month from age 20-60 and you invest it wisely, you would have $632,000. No excuse for being poor in America. Some would say, I can’t afford $100 per month and I say you don’t need to go to Gatlinburg to get that tattoo either.

yes this is something else that annoys me. I have no tats. (partly because I don't want one, partly because my mother would kill me). I have no problem with them. Hell most of my friends and associates have them.

But when someone claims to be broke or asks me for money and they are covered with tattoos I just want to punch them in the face.
 
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Henogee1975

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yes this is something else that annoys me. I have no tats. (partly because I don't want one, partly because my mother would kill me). I have no problem with them. Hell most of my friends and associates have them.

But when someone claims to be broke or asks me for money and they are covered with tattoos I just want to punch them in the face.
I don’t mind tats either. My wife friends husband lost his job and they were asking for financial help, of course we and others helped. The next thing we know, they are on vacation in myrtle beach.
 
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Apr 13, 2002
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It certainly has. Groceries, utilities, health care etc. The necessities of life have all grown exponentially in comparison to wages.

Agree with you on the other stuff. We’re all kind of programmed to think we need more than we actually do to live.

They have increased. A deeper dive into why will reveal much of the same problems that a $15 minimum wage creates.

The answer to a problem is never more of the same
 
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It certainly has. Groceries, utilities, health care etc. The necessities of life have all grown exponentially in comparison to wages.

Agree with you on the other stuff. We’re all kind of programmed to think we need more than we actually do to live.

this just isn’t true. I posted the chart earlier. Inflation is at an all time low, historically speaking. Just isn’t true
 
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sluggercatfan

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It certainly has. Groceries, utilities, health care etc. The necessities of life have all grown exponentially in comparison to wages.

Agree with you on the other stuff. We’re all kind of programmed to think we need more than we actually do to live.
When gas hits 3.50+you ain't seen nothin yet😤😤🇱🇷🇱🇷
 
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Henogee1975

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It certainly has. Groceries, utilities, health care etc. The necessities of life have all grown exponentially in comparison to wages.

Agree with you on the other stuff. We’re all kind of programmed to think we need more than we actually do to live.
Obamacare specifically made health insurance premiums explode.
Typically, they would rise 5% per year, now 15-20 % increase per year.
 

cat_in_the_hat

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It certainly has. Groceries, utilities, health care etc. The necessities of life have all grown exponentially in comparison to wages.

Agree with you on the other stuff. We’re all kind of programmed to think we need more than we actually do to live.
That’s just not true. I work in the utility industry and I can tell you that a couple of years ago the cost of electricity as a percent of household income was the lowest ever recorded. I don’t know how much it’s changed in the last couple of years but I do know it hasn’t skyrocketed.

What is your data to support your conclusion? Based on inflation data and what I know specifically about electricity prices, you are way off.
 
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Jeff Drummond

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That’s just not true. I work in the utility industry and I can tell you that a couple of years ago the cost of electricity as a percent of household income was the lowest ever recorded. I don’t know how much it’s changed in the last couple of years but I do know it hasn’t skyrocketed.

What is your data to support your conclusion? Based on inflation data and what I know specifically about electricity prices, you are way off.

I'm using "utilities" there in a broad sense, probably a much wider definition than you may have in the biz. Not just electricity. Part of the big picture with that other stuff. I'll defer to your expertise on the matter.
 

Bluebl00d

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Instead of sitting around theorizing about the impact of an increase in minimum wage, look up studies that have looked at the actual impact of an increase in minimum wage - at the international level, the federal level and at the state level. That way your opinions will be based on facts.
 
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I looked at that. I don't think we're talking about the same things.

Actually we are. "inflation" does pull out the cost of food and utilities, but you can then break it down this way.

The trend goes across all expense... With the general exception being healthcare costs. But I think we all agree that raising the minimum wage doesn't solve that problem. The only way to solve that problem is to stop advancing healthcare.

 
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BlueRaider22

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Ahhh, politics. Like plugging holes in a dam......







-When Gub'ment is stagnant, everyone whines about the leaking saying that there must be a better way.

-When Gub'ment does something to help those that whine, they remove a finger from a previous hole to plug another one.........hey, guess what happens?
 

Canned Heat

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In theory, yes, but are there enough rungs up?

The reality of the situation is the cost of living has exploded and wages have not. There’s gonna be a ton of people subjected to deeper levels of poverty without some kind of action, and that in turn leads to a lot of other societal issues that wind up affecting everyone.

I have no idea if higher min wage is the answer, but the current scenario isn’t working too hot, either.

please stick to sports,
 
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Instead of sitting around theorizing about the impact of an increase in minimum wage, look up studies that have looked at the actual impact of an increase in minimum wage - at the international level, the federal level and at the state level. That way your opinions will be based on facts.

Or look at situations where its raised and what happens. You don't need studies when you have historical fact.

On the whole it has a negative economic.
 
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Bluebl00d

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Or look at situations where its raised and what happens. You don't need studies when you have historical fact.

On the whole it has a negative economic.
A "look at situations" huh? Those are called a study. What did you think studies were?

Much like life, the results are more nuanced i.e. on the whole, the impact of increased minimum wages are mixed.

Minimum Wage Research
 
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A "look at situations" huh? Those are called a study. What did you think studies were?

Much like life, the results are more nuanced i.e. on the whole, the impact of increased minimum wages are mixed.

Minimum Wage Research

Your links are all hypothetical nonsense. At least half of them are about minimum wage in the UK.

No, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
 
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GonzoCat90

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A few thoughts:

-If minimum wage jobs are for teenagers entering the workforce, who is serving your Big Mac at noon when school is in session?

Further, just how many 16-18 year olds do you think are in the workforce? There's a minimum wage job every ten feet. It's simply not sustainable to only hire high school kids and people starting out. You talk about businesses closing, restrict all of those places to only hiring the people you think work there and see how many are open tomorrow.

-McDonalds CEO was paid $1.2 million, plus a $1.4 million bonus in 2001, plus stock options. In 2019, the same position paid over $18 million dollars. Have Big Macs gotten more expensive since 2001? Has minimum wage changed? Is the CEO doing a 10x better job or working 10x more hours than he was in 2001?

-If you're frustrated by people choosing not to work, it seems a job paying more than $290/week before taxes might encourage that. Why would you work 40 hours at a miserable job to still be broke when you can be broke and not work? All of these stories about working three jobs to be lower middle class doesn't make the character statement you think it does.

-Maybe consider that some people might find it advantageous that you're mad at the guy next door on food stamps that costs you twenty cents per check so that you don't notice that the Walton's increase their wealth by $70,000 per second (that's a real number). And will charge you extra for paper towels and blame it on having to give their workers an extra dime.
 

BlueBallz_rivals30790

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A few thoughts:

-If minimum wage jobs are for teenagers entering the workforce, who is serving your Big Mac at noon when school is in session?

Further, just how many 16-18 year olds do you think are in the workforce? There's a minimum wage job every ten feet. It's simply not sustainable to only hire high school kids and people starting out. You talk about businesses closing, restrict all of those places to only hiring the people you think work there and see how many are open tomorrow.

-McDonalds CEO was paid $1.2 million, plus a $1.4 million bonus in 2001, plus stock options. In 2019, the same position paid over $18 million dollars. Have Big Macs gotten more expensive since 2001? Has minimum wage changed? Is the CEO doing a 10x better job or working 10x more hours than he was in 2001?

-If you're frustrated by people choosing not to work, it seems a job paying more than $290/week before taxes might encourage that. Why would you work 40 hours at a miserable job to still be broke when you can be broke and not work? All of these stories about working three jobs to be lower middle class doesn't make the character statement you think it does.

-Maybe consider that some people might find it advantageous that you're mad at the guy next door on food stamps that costs you twenty cents per check so that you don't notice that the Walton's increase their wealth by $70,000 per second (that's a real number). And will charge you extra for paper towels and blame it on having to give their workers an extra dime.

Just my thoughts on it, and at this point I'm not as concerned about the min wage increase since technology is ready to implement and automate most of those jobs away, although some industries will still be impacted.

- Not just high school, college, retirees, very unskilled. I also see where employees with mental challenges are working as well. I think it's great for them, since it's introducing them into a workforce. All of these demographics can be significantly downsized with technology improvements.

- It's the competitive labor market at work, there are only so many CEO's to go around (successful ones that is). In 2001, the market cap for McDonald's was around $27/share, today it's $213/share. $19 million to lead that kind of success and growth is a drop in the bucket.

- When I graduated college, I had no job and debt, and a tough time getting a job. I told myself that if I was awake, I was going to be working because $5/hr was better than no dollars an hour, so I was working three jobs at one point. I knew eventually things were going to shake out if I kept working. I paid of my debt, then got a "real job" about 9 months later, but never complained about it. So I really don't have alot of sympathy for that crowd.

- The only reason I get mad at the person on food stamps, are the ones that live off food stamps and do nothing to try and get off them. Granted, there's circumstances like disability, etc, however just for the lazy person, which I think there are alot, it rubs me the wrong way. I have no love for wal-mart, they will be able to absorb the increase no problem. They are a leader in automating at the retail level and will continue to do so. They also squeeze the hell out of their vendors.
 
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BlueRaider22

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I've been sitting back reading 5 pages of responses now.......just wondering why we're all going around in circles?


#1 - There is no "perfect."

Sure, we have problems right now with the Fed min wage set at $7.25/hr........but you've got to understand that increasing the wage to $15/hr will solve a few problems but also create brand new ones. Abolish minimum wages.....you'll solve some problems, yet create others.

#2 - There will always be a small portion of the population that will b!tch and moan no matter what course of action is taken.

#3 - Minimum wage was created on the heels of the Great Depression so that employers didn't price gouge employees. IT IS NOT supposed to be enough to live off of.
 
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Jeff Drummond

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3 - Minimum wage was created on the heels of the Great Depression so that employers didn't price gouge employees. IT IS NOT supposed to be enough to live off of.

Essentially true, but it was also created just prior to a time when we became a manufacturing giant. We don't have those jobs anymore to support the population with a good living. Something has to give. I think Andrew Yang has been on the right path with the UBI, but I'm not exactly sure how we pull that off.

It's been an interesting discussion for the most part. I'm curious, for some of you who are well-versed on it, if a min wage increase is not a good solution, what would you propose?
 

Rex Kwon Do

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There's a minimum wage job every ten feet.
No, there's not. Not close. Link some, if so. KY is $7.25...you'd be hard pressed to find any jobs paying that, the market has dictated otherwise.

Part of my company employs janitors, a common position people use to try to illustrate this point. I start at $12 and quickly get to $13 if someone is a keeper. Have guys as high as $18 that also get plenty of OT, make a decent living given some of their circumstances of which I've tried to help many out with.

$7.25 would get you laughed out of the building. $10 would be pretty iffy. Temp services don't pay $7.25. I occasionally use a temp service in a pinch and they pay $12 to their folks with a gross $18 to me.

From there, look what happens to that side of my business, a real life small business. Everyone below goes up to $15. Those currently at $15 (rightfully) say wtf, why am I getting paid the same as the jabroni at the bottom, I bump them to $18. The all star employees I have at 17/18 (rightfully) say wtf, I'm not the same as the guys in the middle, I'm your all star....I bump them to $21.

Awesome, right? Well then (about 20 min after the law passes) I go to all my customers and redo our agreements passing along the increase, they ultimately pass that cost along to theirs. Those that don't/won't I have to decide if I want to absorb....if it's not worth it to me / the margin isn't high enough I walk away and those employees get laid off.

The whole scenario sucks is not particularly complicated. I wish we had more politicians that have run businesses or met payrolls and weren't lawyers, a lot of theoretical **** would never make it past the drawing board.
 

BlueRaider22

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Essentially true, but it was also created just prior to a time when we became a manufacturing giant. We don't have those jobs anymore to support the population with a good living. Something has to give. I think Andrew Yang has been on the right path with the UBI, but I'm not exactly sure how we pull that off.

It's been an interesting discussion for the most part. I'm curious, for some of you who are well-versed on it, if a min wage increase is not a good solution, what would you propose?


History tells us that we won’t always be an economic juggernaut. No country has been able to maintain it for ever. And they’ll likely never back down wages.

Economists say that a 2-3% inflation rate each year is fairly healthy. I think that a similar rate would be ok if you’re going to have a minimum wage. I think someone early mentioned $9/hr or something. To me this sounds more appropriate.






We also have to fight the American psyche. Other countries and cultures deal with lower wages a little easier than many. In America you’ll see a single citizen work 2-3 min wage jobs......work to the bone....and try to carry rent, some massive car payment, while being a typically huge consumer.....then whine about not having money. Many times you’ll see low income citizens in other countries live together......share rent/bills......share a car (or perhaps not have one at all).....and save, save to improve the situation.
 
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Essentially true, but it was also created just prior to a time when we became a manufacturing giant. We don't have those jobs anymore to support the population with a good living. Something has to give. I think Andrew Yang has been on the right path with the UBI, but I'm not exactly sure how we pull that off.

It's been an interesting discussion for the most part. I'm curious, for some of you who are well-versed on it, if a min wage increase is not a good solution, what would you propose?

again, simply not true. I live in rural west Ky and within a 20 minute drive, from where I sit, I can get you 5 interviews by Friday for $16-$20 for low skill manufacturing jobs. Pass a drug test (weed usually ok) and have a ged with reading and basic math skills.

Regarding your second paragraph, what problem are you trying to solve?



 

Jeff Drummond

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again, simply not true. I live in rural west Ky and within a 20 minute drive, from where I sit, I can get you 5 interviews by Friday for $16-$20 for low skill manufacturing jobs. Pass a drug test (weed usually ok) and have a ged with reading and basic math skills.

Regarding your second paragraph, what problem are you trying to solve?




There are pockets of this in some areas. In other areas, there are not. You can make an argument for our population needing to be a bit more mobile to address that, but it's absolutely true that we have significantly less manufacturing jobs here now than we did from, say, 1940-1980. These opportunities are not available nationwide like they once were.
 
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BMoore2

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The criteria for determining minimum wage should be:
1) What a 40 hour work week will get one. For example, a fair minimum wage would be one that would get a person working 40 hours a week a decent (non-govt housing) apt with running water and hvac, as well as a survivalist-type food supply to feed 2 people. Spam, etc.
2) The rate of inflation. People that only listen to conservative voices will hear that if the minimum wage gets raised nationwide, everything will be automated (it will, anyway). The problem is that they haven’t raised more than once since 1991. Working full-time hours with $7.25 hourly pay no longer pays for the bare minimum lifestyle. Gotta be able to put food on the table and have a place to live.
 

BMoore2

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Reading J-Drum’s post about job loss makes me angry. What a bunch of selfish dbags. Eff the McKinsey Group and all the selfish aristocrats that were willing to destroy America to save a bit of money on labor.
 
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cat_in_the_hat

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r local government because
Essentially true, but it was also created just prior to a time when we became a manufacturing giant. We don't have those jobs anymore to support the population with a good living. Something has to give. I think Andrew Yang has been on the right path with the UBI, but I'm not exactly sure how we pull that off.

It's been an interesting discussion for the most part. I'm curious, for some of you who are well-versed on it, if a min wage increase is not a good solution, what would you propose?
I’m not trying to be difficult, but why does there have to be a solution? Why is every societal problem something that government should attempt to address? I say that because we are supposed to live in a society that protects individual liberty. Government can’t aggressively engineer society without stripping away the rights of individuals. In a society that is supposed to value and protect individual liberty, shouldn’t it be up to the individual to address his or her financial situation. Why is it the role of government to address it? I would also argue that if government is involved in helping people with their financial situation, it’s more appropriate that it be state or local government because that preserves more liberty than when the federal government does it. Personally, I think in a free society it should be the individuals responsibility and if additional help is needed that should come from charity.
 

BMoore2

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Correct, minimum wage jobs aren't jobs that are for sustaining a family. They are designed to be minimum requirements and get your feet into the workforce. You gain knowledge and experience and then you move on to better jobs.
How many people working minimum wage jobs do you think are going to “graduate” to something better? You think a janitor is going to get his doctorate in the custodial arts?
 
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BMoore2

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I’m not trying to be difficult, but why does there have to be a solution? Why is every societal problem something that government should attempt to address? I say that because we are supposed to live in a society that protects individual liberty. Government can’t aggressively engineer society without stripping away the rights of individuals. In a society that is supposed to value and protect individual liberty, shouldn’t it be up to the individual to address his or her financial situation. Why is it the role of government to address it? I would also argue that if government is involved in helping people with their financial situation, it’s more appropriate that it be state or local government because that preserves more liberty than when the federal government does it. Personally, I think in a free society it should be the individuals responsibility and if additional help is needed that should come from charity.
Cause we are the damn United States of America, and we are the greatest country in world history. It’s what we do.
Libertarians miss the part about disabled/mentally incapable people not being able to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. They should be able to have three hots and a cot (no prison). That’s not too much to ask for.
 
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cat_in_the_hat

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Cause we are the damn United States of America, and we are the greatest country in world history. It’s what we do.
Libertarians miss the part about disabled/mentally incapable people not being able to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. They should be able to have three hots and a cot (no prison). That’s not too much to ask for.
I don’t think taking care of disabled people is the point of minimum wage increases. It’s really another issue altogether.
 

BMoore2

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I get what you’re saying, but if the original intent of minimum wage laws was to ensure people working those jobs could get by, then we need to adjust for inflation that has occurred since they first introduced the current $7.25 rate and ensure people can get by on it.