2 comments by Tom/Jeff during the game

[RackOps]

Two comments from the radio guys during the game really have me worried going forward.

Both came before the 2nd quarter debacle.

1st: Jeff mentioned he had never seen a coach fired up like Stoops...he said he was going "ballistic"after every play.

I'm all for fire, but can some of the problems we've had with basic coaching be tied to the fact that our coach is acting like an escapee from the lunatic asylum for large stretches of the game?

The more concerning comment was made just after Drew's TD pass. Jeff said that there was a bunch of confusion on the sidelines, and as the team was lining up, Stoops said something to Dawson, who shrugged his shoulders. Stoops immediately went racing down the sideline trying to call a timeout, which was thankfully unsuccessful.

We can all speculate about the coaches not being on the same page, but that seems like proof to me.

Beginning to expect that Dawson will be the sacrificial lamb at the end of the season.

 

[akaukswoosh]

Beginning to expect that Dawson will be the sacrificial lamb at the end of the season.

Very well could be but something tells me it will look like an unfunny Groundhog Day with UK's 3rd OC in three years.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

He only way I'd support Dawson leaving is if 3-4 more coaches left as well and Mitch open the cheek book and only hire experienced coaches.
Tons and tons of good coaches on the market right now looking for work. Coaches with experience as head coaches OC DC position coaches etc at the biggest of schools and were highly successful.
I like Stoops (short leash) and Marrow (earning his money)
Many of the others needs to go

 

[TJS4UK]

I agree about Marrow. Great coach and a tremendous recruiter.

 

[fabcat]

Two comments from the radio guys during the game really have me worried going forward.

Both came before the 2nd quarter debacle.

1st: Jeff mentioned he had never seen a coach fired up like Stoops...he said he was going "ballistic"after every play.

I'm all for fire, but can some of the problems we've had with basic coaching be tied to the fact that our coach is acting like an escapee from the lunatic asylum for large stretches of the game?

The more concerning comment was made just after Drew's TD pass. Jeff said that there was a bunch of confusion on the sidelines, and as the team was lining up, Stoops said something to Dawson, who shrugged his shoulders. Stoops immediately went racing down the sideline trying to call a timeout, which was thankfully unsuccessful.

We can all speculate about the coaches not being on the same page, but that seems like proof to me.

Beginning to expect that Dawson will be the sacrificial lamb at the end of the season.

He may have not liked the play called. Who knows with this staff. If the head coach wants to control the offensive calls then he needs to be the one calling them. JMO. Seen it happen 1st hand and usually doesn't work. Offensive cord are calling plays 2-3 plays ahead and are always trying to set certain plays up. Just not the ideal situation to be changing the flow of a cordinators game. Either you trust him or you don't.

 

[CloverforkCat]

Beginning to expect that Dawson will be the sacrificial lamb at the end of the season.

Very well could be but something tells me it will look like an unfunny Groundhog Day with UK's 3rd OC in three years.

Consider....Dawson may want to get the he** out of Dodge and leave UK, he may well be fed up with Stoops !

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Consider....Dawson may want to get the he** out of Dodge and leave UK, he may well be fed up with Stoops !

Really?

 

[tntuk]

Really?

Do you know that Stoops doesn't have his thumb on the O? I think it's obvious he does....maybe not for the best.

 

[Pike 96]

ALL of our offensive numbers and rankings are DOWN from last year. And that's with losing only ONE offensive player that mattered. While getting a year older on the OLine and everywhere else while gaining Badet and Conrad. If you think Stoops is the problem with the Offense instead of Dawson this year i don't know what to tell you.

It's beyond obvious that Dawson never called any plays for West Virginia. His play calling is completely unimaginative and predictable. the only thing I've seen him be good at is being a smart *** when saying the same crap about if the play had worked i'd be a genius and that he'd obviously change the plays that didn't work after the fact if he had that option... i'm done with him.

 

[Chuckinden]

Definitely predictable. When it was 4th and 1 on the goal line, here came Horton in the game. I told my son Horton will get it and everyone knows that. I hope they fake it to him and run a bootleg or throw a pass. Nope, just run it up the gut and never makes to the goal line. No creativity.

 

[RealCat41]

ALL of our offensive numbers and rankings are DOWN from last year. And that's with losing only ONE offensive player that mattered. While getting a year older on the OLine and everywhere else while gaining Badet and Conrad. If you think Stoops is the problem with the Offense instead of Dawson this year i don't know what to tell you.

It's beyond obvious that Dawson never called any plays for West Virginia. His play calling is completely unimaginative and predictable. the only thing I've seen him be good at is being a smart *** when saying the same crap about if the play had worked i'd be a genius and that he'd obviously change the plays that didn't work after the fact if he had that option... i'm done with him.

This is a completely ignorant post. Meaning that you're just non knowing about the subject matter. Stoops has vetoed more play calls than executive orders issued by Obama.

Dawson is taking a ton of hits for the Ole Ball Coach.

 

[johnnyrockets]

Definitely predictable. When it was 4th and 1 on the goal line, here came Horton in the game. I told my son Horton will get it and everyone knows that. I hope they fake it to him and run a bootleg or throw a pass. Nope, just run it up the gut and never makes to the goal line. No creativity.

I mean, I guess. But he also threw deep down the sideline on 4th an 1 (people bitched about that, too, lol).

If running up the middle doesn't work, and throwing down the sideline trying to catch them sleeping doesn't work.... what would all of the offensive experts on this board suggest?

The reality is that we moved the ball a little bit on a pretty good defense. We lost the game because of a bad decision by a young QB (who everyone on this board was sure was the better choice, myself included), a bad audible and a worse throw by our 4th year "future NFL" QB (lol), a fumble inside our own 5 by a young RB trying to do too much, and a trick play that barely met the letter of the rule (and certainly not the spirit of the rule). That's it. Not sure how any of the above is on Dawson, or the play calling. But I'm in the minority I suppose.

 

[Chuckinden]

I mean, I guess. But he also threw deep down the sideline on 4th an 1 (people bitched about that, too, lol).

If running up the middle doesn't work, and throwing down the sideline trying to catch them sleeping doesn't work.... what would all of the offensive experts on this board suggest?

The reality is that we moved the ball a little bit on a pretty good defense. We lost the game because of a bad decision by a young QB (who everyone on this board was sure was the better choice, myself included), a bad audible and a worse throw by our 4th year "future NFL" QB (lol), a fumble inside our own 5 by a young RB trying to do too much, and a trick play that barely met the letter of the rule (and certainly not the spirit of the rule). That's it. Not sure how any of the above is on Dawson, or the play calling. But I'm in the minority I suppose.

You missed my point. I was talking about when Horton came in, everyone and his granny knew he was getting the ball and it would've been a helluva time to be creative.

 

[BigBoyBlueMMA]

Consider....Dawson may want to get the he** out of Dodge and leave UK, he may well be fed up with Stoops !

this could be true - I just think Stoops needs to let offense run and stay out of it - he is defensive guy who should show OC and OC assts what they should expect from the D they face and what works well against the D in instances . then let the damn OC hang himself or prove himself....but it is not all on the OC I guarantee you this

 

[Chadrock]

You missed my point. I was talking about when Horton came in, everyone and his granny knew he was getting the ball and it would've been a helluva time to be creative.

Was this series when it was:

1st and goal - line up in shotgun
2nd and goal - line up in shotgun
3rd and goal - line up in shotgun
4th and goal - go under center when the whole stadium knew it was a PT sneak?

Why did we wait to 4th down to sneak PT, a play that statistically has been positive for this team?

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

Sorry you should be able to get a TD with first and goal from the 1. No need to be creative. That's the problem. We overthink the simple plays. If you run 4QB sneaks I bet at least one gets you in. Just ridiculous to think about doing botlegs, fakes, etcs. Run the f'ing ball into the endzone!

I love people blaming the horrible offensive decline on Stoops. I guess he did better calling plays last year [roll]

Dawson is in charge of offense and he has been horrible for the majority of it. Quit trying to blame Stoops when you didn't say squat last year when our offense had improved from the first year.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Beginning to expect that Dawson will be the sacrificial lamb at the end of the season..

Sacrificial lamb implies that Dawson may be cut loose regardless of whether or not he is the issue. I think it's more likely that Dawson is a cull and needs to be separated from the herd.

 

[johnnyrockets]

You missed my point. I was talking about when Horton came in, everyone and his granny knew he was getting the ball and it would've been a helluva time to be creative.

Respectfully, I think you might have missed my point. He brought Horton in once, and played it straight. Didn't work. Then, in a similar situation, he tried something different and threw deep. Didn't work. So the constant is "didn't work," irrespective of how apparently predictable the play call was.

Look, if the complaint is "he's the OC, it's his job to move the ball and score points, period" I think that is a legit point. But second guessing play calls and nit picking other elements of his style is misguided, IMO. Vandy had, what, the #12 defense in the country? We moved the ball on them, and well enough to win the game relatively easily. Our offense left 6 points minimum and as many as 14 points out there that had little to do with Dawson (Towles audibled his INT and you have to think the decision to go for 4th and goal was Stoops's). We also handed VU 14 points on Boom's fumble and Barker's pick 6. Hard to directly implicate Dawson for those plays, either. Literally any of those plays goes a different way and it's a totally different outcome. The missed FG? The blocked punt? I don't see how that stuff falls on the OC. JMO.

 

[KendallCat]

I mean, I guess. But he also threw deep down the sideline on 4th an 1 (people bitched about that, too, lol).

If running up the middle doesn't work, and throwing down the sideline trying to catch them sleeping doesn't work.... what would all of the offensive experts on this board suggest?

The reality is that we moved the ball a little bit on a pretty good defense. We lost the game because of a bad decision by a young QB (who everyone on this board was sure was the better choice, myself included), a bad audible and a worse throw by our 4th year "future NFL" QB (lol), a fumble inside our own 5 by a young RB trying to do too much, and a trick play that barely met the letter of the rule (and certainly not the spirit of the rule). That's it. Not sure how any of the above is on Dawson, or the play calling. But I'm in the minority I suppose.

The problem with the 4th down play was not the call, since they had a perfect coverage to throw against with single man coverage and no safety over the top. It was the pattern which made the throwing lane much smaller. With a 6'6 Blake Bone the best option was a slant route where he could use his body to shield the DB. Much better target for the QB with no safety help.

 

[jnewc2_rivals30628]

We could get rid of every assistant coach on the staff and make them scapegoats for our problems, but I'm not sure how much it will change things as long as M. Stoops is roaming the white stripes.

 

[BigBluePhantom]

The problem is the offense. Most of us agree on that. None of us know why. Some factors are:

-The line is real bad.
-Towles is bad at reading defenses and making decisions under pressure.
-Barker has no experience.
-Our receivers drop a lot of easy balls.
-Boom runs in 3 too many directions.

All the above contribute to the problem but the most concerning thing to me is that we don't maximize the players we have. We don't put them in a position to win. Now we can bring in better players or we can teach these how to play but the bottom line is they will be better but they will never reach their full potential in this broken offensive scheme.

If Dawson is calling these plays and truly is that incompetent, he needs to go asap. If its the more likely scenario and Stoops is interfering, he needs to get out of the way and let the man do his job.

 

[BigBluePhantom]

The problem with the 4th down play was not the call, since they had a perfect coverage to throw against with single man coverage and no safety over the top. It was the pattern which made the throwing lane much smaller. With a 6'6 Blake Bone the best option was a slant route where he could use his body to shield the DB. Much better target for the QB with no safety help.

I would disagree that it was perfect coverage on 4th and 1. Context matters a lot here. On 3rd down I would say go for it. Its a good match up. However, on 4th down, the only goal is to get the yard and keep the drive going. There were much higher percentage plays that would have given us a better chance to get 1 yard. Dawson said after the game that "we took a shot". He said it like it was no big deal. It was a big effin huge deal. That pass is completed against single coverage maybe 55 or 60 percent of the time and that is with a dependable QB and receivers who catch good passes. If that was going to be the play, we should have punted.

 

[GameOnNow]

What makes anyone think we loose any of the current coaches? I do agree we do need to replace some of the coaches but, just don't understand how and why they let a one year coach go. If that were to happen will another coach want to come to Kentucky?

 

[KendallCat]

I would disagree that it was perfect coverage on 4th and 1. Context matters a lot here. On 3rd down I would say go for it. Its a good match up. However, on 4th down, the only goal is to get the yard and keep the drive going. There were much higher percentage plays that would have given us a better chance to get 1 yard. Dawson said after the game that "we took a shot". He said it like it was no big deal. It was a big effin huge deal. That pass is completed against single coverage maybe 55 or 60 percent of the time and that is with a dependable QB and receivers who catch good passes. If that was going to be the play, we should have punted.

I agree that a risky pass play was not the right call - wanted to clarify that. If they were going to throw to Bone make it an easier passing window for Towles and let him throw him open. That is the one thing Randall said last summer to us when he was in town. In college you throw to the open receiver, but in the pros they throw you open.

 

[OrdinaryCatFan]

Sacrificial lamb implies that Dawson may be cut loose regardless of whether or not he is the issue. I think it's more likely that Dawson is a cull and needs to be separated from the herd.

I don't have much inside information but keep your eye on the offensive staff of Mizou.

 

[Lonesome Hippopotamus]

I'm all for fire, but can some of the problems we've had with basic coaching be tied to the fact that our coach is acting like an escapee from the lunatic asylum for large stretches of the game?

This made me crack up!!!

 

[chuckster.sixpack]

I agree about Marrow. Great coach and a tremendous recruiter.

You're saying he's a great position coach? How so?

 

[chuckster.sixpack]

What makes anyone think we loose any of the current coaches? I do agree we do need to replace some of the coaches but, just don't understand how and why they let a one year coach go. If that were to happen will another coach want to come to Kentucky?

It happens everywhere all the time.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

1st: Jeff mentioned he had never seen a coach fired up like Stoops...he said he was going "ballistic"after every play.

I'm all for fire, but can some of the problems we've had with basic coaching be tied to the fact that our coach is acting like an escapee from the lunatic asylum for large stretches of the game?

I think it shows that everyone is feeling tons of pressure. We all know this "turn around" is hanging by a thread. Another loss or two, and we lose the majority if a really good recruiting class.

Was this series when it was:

1st and goal - line up in shotgun
2nd and goal - line up in shotgun
3rd and goal - line up in shotgun
4th and goal - go under center when the whole stadium knew it was a PT sneak?

Why did we wait to 4th down to sneak PT, a play that statistically has been positive for this team?

I HATE shotgun on the goalline. If youre trying to gain a yard, why back up 5 to start the play? Its ok in other short yardage, because it spreads out the D. But in goalline, everyone is condensed and it just ends up going nowhere.

The sneak was terrible. I dont know if that was a call from the sideline or not, but you cant sneak when you need a full yard and our OL had been getting no push.

orry you should be able to get a TD with first and goal from the 1. No need to be creative. That's the problem. We overthink the simple plays. If you run 4QB sneaks I bet at least one gets you in. Just ridiculous to think about doing botlegs, fakes, etcs. Run the f'ing ball into the endzone!

This staff doesnt trust the offensive unit. They havent trusted the Towles since Florida. They cant trust Boom to not try to change direction 10 times. They cant trust Horton not to run standing straight up.

Early in the season, we were terrific in the red zone. We ran the inverted bone, had taco meat and Hyde in the backfield, and we could pound the ball in. We need to get back to that, but let Jojo be the short yardage back. He runs hard, low, and north/south.

 

[mtn cat1]

I mean, I guess. But he also threw deep down the sideline on 4th an 1 (people bitched about that, too, lol).

If running up the middle doesn't work, and throwing down the sideline trying to catch them sleeping doesn't work.... what would all of the offensive experts on this board suggest?

The reality is that we moved the ball a little bit on a pretty good defense. We lost the game because of a bad decision by a young QB (who everyone on this board was sure was the better choice, myself included), a bad audible and a worse throw by our 4th year "future NFL" QB (lol), a fumble inside our own 5 by a young RB trying to do too much, and a trick play that barely met the letter of the rule (and certainly not the spirit of the rule). That's it. Not sure how any of the above is on Dawson, or the play calling. But I'm in the minority I suppose.

I do not profess to be an off. genius, however, if I'm the OC -, when we had the ball 1st & goal at the 1 yd line, I would have had my qb -up under center and ran the ball for 4 straight plays if necessary to get the TD! If I am not going to qb sneak the ball, I would have JOJO Kemp in the bf and hand the ball off to him as he is our best back in such situations!!!

I would have employed the same strategy with JO JO when we had the ball at the two&a half yd line, 1st & goal!!!

Would the outcome have been any different? We will never know because that strategy was not used!!! What I do know is we would not have come out of those situations any worse off & we would have saved an int. by PT!!!!!

Is that genius enough for you??????????????????????????????

 

[ThatManJBeezyDoe4UK]

I do not profess to be an off. genius, however, if I'm the OC -, when we had the ball 1st & goal at the 1 yd line, I would have had my qb -up under center and ran the ball for 4 straight plays if necessary to get the TD! If I am not going to qb sneak the ball, I would have JOJO Kemp in the bf and hand the ball off to him as he is our best back in such situations!!!

I would have employed the same strategy with JO JO when we had the ball at the two&a half yd line, 1st & goal!!!

Would the outcome have been any different? We will never know because that strategy was not used!!! What I do know is we would not have come out of those situations any worse off & we would have saved an int. by PT!!!!!

Is that genius enough for you??????????????????????????????

Lol the fact that in short down situations we always go in shotgun just kills me. 4 qb sneaks would have been the most logical thing to do. But the staff doesn't like logic for some reason. And it would have most likely worked. But sometimes they just wanna make it fancy from a yard out you know. The staff is heavily invested in style points one would assume. There's never been a loss more on the coaches than that loss. Left 17 points on the damn field you kidding?

 

[johnnyrockets]

I do not profess to be an off. genius, however, if I'm the OC -, when we had the ball 1st & goal at the 1 yd line, I would have had my qb -up under center and ran the ball for 4 straight plays if necessary to get the TD! If I am not going to qb sneak the ball, I would have JOJO Kemp in the bf and hand the ball off to him as he is our best back in such situations!!!

I would have employed the same strategy with JO JO when we had the ball at the two&a half yd line, 1st & goal!!!

Would the outcome have been any different? We will never know because that strategy was not used!!! What I do know is we would not have come out of those situations any worse off & we would have saved an int. by PT!!!!!

Is that genius enough for you??????????????????????????????

I get that. My point is more that some people say he's "too predictable" and some people say "just hand the damn ball off at the goal line!" So the same guy is both too conservative and too unorthodox.

Also, my understanding (could be wrong) is that he didn't call the pass that Towles got picked. He may have had dive right called there, who knows. PT audibled to the fade.

I still think that, overall, offensive play calling isn't our biggest issue. I think execution is a MUCH greater concern. Now, if you want to lay all of "offensive performance" at his feet as the OC, I think that's fine. But it's a bigger issue than not calling the "right" play. We had 351 yards and 17 points against VU this year, in Nashville. We had 384 yards and 17 points against VU last year, at home. Our offense should be better this year, but so is Vandy's defense (people seem to keep forgetting that they had the #12 defense in the NATION coming into that game, and had just held a CFP contender in Florida to 3 field goals, at Florida, the week before).

I don't think it was Dawson's call to go for the fourth and goal that we didn't get. That was a mistake, and not just in retrospect. That's 3 points. Dawson didn't make us drop 2 open passes on the first drive, one at the goal line. It apparently wasn't Dawson's call for PT to throw the fade that got picked. That's 3-7 points. It wasn't Dawson who caused Boom to fumble (7 points). Dawson didn't tell Barker to throw right into a zone defense, though maybe a more experienced player doesn't make that mistake (7 points). Dawson didn't miss a FG (3 points). Dawson didn't get a punt blocked.

I get why people are frustrated. I'm frustrated too. But I feel like, to some degree, we set ourselves up for disappointment by predicting all preseason that this team was going to score 40 ppg and that PT was an NFL quarterback. The bottom line is that we aren't a great football team on either side of the ball. I wish I saw us getting better, faster. I don't think most teams improve in a linear fashion, and this seems to be a bad year for us. Certainly not ready to jump off the bandwagon for now. <shrug>

 

[johnnyrockets]

Lol the fact that in short down situations we always go in shotgun just kills me. 4 qb sneaks would have been the most logical thing to do. But the staff doesn't like logic for some reason. And it would have most likely worked. But sometimes they just wanna make it fancy from a yard out you know. The staff is heavily invested in style points one would assume. There's never been a loss more on the coaches than that loss. Left 17 points on the damn field you kidding?

I disagree with some of this, especially the notion that the coaching staff is interested in anything other than getting wins. But I definitely agree that this was a game we had no business losing (not just looking ahead at it, but the way the game went. We left at LEAST 9 on the field, maybe as many as 17, and we handed them 14 freebies. That's tough to overcome.)

 

[Deeeefense]

What makes anyone think we loose any of the current coaches? I do agree we do need to replace some of the coaches but, just don't understand how and why they let a one year coach go. If that were to happen will another coach want to come to Kentucky?

Yep that's the downside of a change there. I'm not in the "fire Dawson" camp, I'll let Stoops decide if he thinks a change is necessary there, but after the first guy left after 2 years and now another leaving after 1 doesn't make for a good situation for anyone.

 

[BlueRaider22]

^Well that's a little doom/gloom....

There is no indication at all that Brown left b/c he didn't like it here. There is no indication that he actively searched for job opportunities. There is every indication that the Troy head coaching position opened up unexpectedly after their long time HC finally retired.......and that Brown jumped on the chance to coach the team where he cut his coaching teeth.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Really?

I agree with CC...NB was handcuffed by Stoops just like Dawson probably is

 

[UKwannabe]

Problem with Dawson is,

A)He's unproven, but has good pedigree

B)He isn't known as a recruiter.

So, if he isn't improving the offense from a coaching and play calling standpoint, and he isn't bringing in talented recruits....than why is he on staff at arguably the 2nd most important position of power?

It seems like our position coaches recruit their *** off, but then we have 2 coordinators that haven't proven to be great coaches, nor exceptional recruiters/talent evaluators.

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

Sorry you should be able to get a TD with first and goal from the 1. No need to be creative. That's the problem. We overthink the simple plays. If you run 4QB sneaks I bet at least one gets you in. Just ridiculous to think about doing botlegs, fakes, etcs. Run the f'ing ball into the endzone!.

Need to tell this to the Seahawks OC as well.

 

[BigBluePhantom]

I get that. My point is more that some people say he's "too predictable" and some people say "just hand the damn ball off at the goal line!" So the same guy is both too conservative and too unorthodox.

I still think that, overall, offensive play calling isn't our biggest issue. I think execution is a MUCH greater concern. >

Seems like a contradiction to say they are too predictable/conservative in one breath and that they take too many chances in the next. However, this staff has actually found a way to be both. Here is how. There are times to be conservative and there are times to lay it all on the table. When the odds for success are in your favor, you play it conservative. When the odds are against you, you do things a little less orthodox like a trick play or a deep pass. We seem to gamble win we have a sure thing and conversely, we run it up the middle when we need 25 yards. For example, 1st and goal from the 1 against Vandy. The odds are greatly in our favor. You pound it into the end zone. They may stop you once or twice but not 4 times. We line up in the shotgun and throw it. Or, you score a TD late in the third quarter to pull within 5. Now is the time to gamble a little and go for 2. That gets you within a FG to tie. We get all conservative and kick the extra point.

To your other point, I would agree that execution is a bigger problem at this moment. However, going forward, even if we get the execution part fixed, this line of play calling is still dreadful. It will continue to cause us to lose close games just like it did against Vandy.