1) Wasn't Templeton Hardy a DL in high school? and if so, why did he move? and is he doing worth a ****? 2) I see where DJB says that Derrek Sherrod is out best O-Lineman we have.....is he the one that was abused by Greg Hardy in the egg bowl? didnt watch it and refuse to do so.... this scares me if he is our best and he was the one...
2 O-line questions...
- Thread starter sixpackmafia
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some of our problems were pure confusion. Don't get me wrong, Ole miss's d-line was awesome and manhandled us several times. But half of the plays its semms like linemen are looking around for someone to block while 3 defenders are running "unmolested" to the QB. And once or twice, Tyson/Carroll just fail to step up in the pocket. I remember the broadcast guys showing replays and going "What is sherrod doing?" I think (mostly hope) that Grimes was just awful. Supposedly the schemes are more complext this year but very user friendly once you get them down.
Im sure Sherrod is our best...he's the only player that's locked down his position since he got here (that's all I can really go by. I don't know how people claim to know so much about o-linemen who are good unless they watch the game on replay and slow it down. its easy to tell who is bad in game speed)
Hardy was just bigger than everyone in high school. Many people said he probably wouldn't succeed on the DL in college. Mullen likes his potential on the O-line but I doubt we get anything from him this year.
Im sure Sherrod is our best...he's the only player that's locked down his position since he got here (that's all I can really go by. I don't know how people claim to know so much about o-linemen who are good unless they watch the game on replay and slow it down. its easy to tell who is bad in game speed)
Hardy was just bigger than everyone in high school. Many people said he probably wouldn't succeed on the DL in college. Mullen likes his potential on the O-line but I doubt we get anything from him this year.
1) Yes. Depth at DL vs. Depth at OL. Probably Not.
2) Everyone got abused in the Egg Bowl.
Seriously though, it was probably Saulsberry and our guards that caught the most hell in Oxford, there is only so much Sherrod can do, and he is definitely our best. I am hoping Freeman and Lawrence can hold up the other end, and reports have been favorable so far. I was really liking this line with Sherrod, Smith and JC anchoring the unit. My how things can change in a week. I still think we can be better than last year. Strauder was a swinging gate, Saulsberry was playing out of position, and based on the recent comments by some of the OL, the are actually learning how to read defenses now...which is something they say they NEVER did before, so I will also throw in that they are better coached now, better conditioned (yes I am actually buying into the Balis hype) and necessarily more experienced.
As for Hardy, I still think he may be able to contribute down the line. He is just a product of poor HS coaching, conditioning and he used his size to dominate in HS. I found it very interesting what Jackie was saying about the extra time it takes for a lot of Mississippi players to develop as opposed to Florida and Texas high schoolers. Really an intriguing theory. Whether it has more to do with socioeconomics or just bad coaching, I don't know, but it makes sense. Jackie was saying that he was kicking himself for letting some players go to USM, etc., that ended up being NFL caliber players that just needed time to develop. Instead, he was out signing JUCOS. We all know how that ended.
2) Everyone got abused in the Egg Bowl.
Seriously though, it was probably Saulsberry and our guards that caught the most hell in Oxford, there is only so much Sherrod can do, and he is definitely our best. I am hoping Freeman and Lawrence can hold up the other end, and reports have been favorable so far. I was really liking this line with Sherrod, Smith and JC anchoring the unit. My how things can change in a week. I still think we can be better than last year. Strauder was a swinging gate, Saulsberry was playing out of position, and based on the recent comments by some of the OL, the are actually learning how to read defenses now...which is something they say they NEVER did before, so I will also throw in that they are better coached now, better conditioned (yes I am actually buying into the Balis hype) and necessarily more experienced.
As for Hardy, I still think he may be able to contribute down the line. He is just a product of poor HS coaching, conditioning and he used his size to dominate in HS. I found it very interesting what Jackie was saying about the extra time it takes for a lot of Mississippi players to develop as opposed to Florida and Texas high schoolers. Really an intriguing theory. Whether it has more to do with socioeconomics or just bad coaching, I don't know, but it makes sense. Jackie was saying that he was kicking himself for letting some players go to USM, etc., that ended up being NFL caliber players that just needed time to develop. Instead, he was out signing JUCOS. We all know how that ended.
It was jailbreak city that day. Picture yourself as Sherrod or Brignone and you have 3 NFL caliber guys coming right at you. You just pick one to hit and hope your QB lives. I have watched Sherrod pretty closely and I have to say that he id not exactly Walter Jones, but he is solid and could certainly develop further. He has the perfect body for an NFL OT.
I am confused. First you tell people to watch replay and slow it down, then you say it is easy to tell who is bad in game speed. Why would you recommend slowing it down if you think it is easy to see in game speed?8Dog said:
I'll add that part of the problem late in that game was that your QBs started watching the rush instead of the field. I can't say I blame them, but they created a couple extra sacks at the end either by leaving the pocket before it collapsed or giving up on the play before the rush hit.
but our O-line is not nearly as bad as percieved or as bad as what happened on one particular Saturday in Nov.
Make no mistake...I think OM D-line was the best we faced last year. However, after sitting on the 5th row behind our bench and watching our own defense come off the field after the FIRST drive of the game by OM, I said to a friend...."They're gonna kick our *** today". Watching the body language of our defense coming to the sideline and taking their seat on the bench, I knew we were in trouble. Not one word was said by any player to the guy next to him. No "let's pick it up", "what did your guy do on such and such play", not even a "what the 17 are you doing out there!". And to make matters worst, our D coaches didn't show much more emotion or have much more to say than the players. And it remained that way all day. Honest to goodness, after some series when our d came to the bench, our coaches didn't even go over and talk to the players! My point is, and I'm sorry I rambled on the D in an O thread, but my point is that team (or coaches) had no fire whatsoever from the very beginning of that game. Now back to the O-line.
42% of our total sacks for the year came in that one game. 26 sacks for the year, 11 in that one game. The other 11 games = 15 sacks.
I really think this new offense will make our o-line even better. Instead of having to give the QB 5-6 seconds to go thru their progressions of running the Gulf Coast Offense, we will be getting the ball out of the QB's hands in roughly half the time it use to take us. Motion, mis-direction, multiple sets will keep defenses from teeing off as in years past. This should make us better as well.
Make no mistake...I think OM D-line was the best we faced last year. However, after sitting on the 5th row behind our bench and watching our own defense come off the field after the FIRST drive of the game by OM, I said to a friend...."They're gonna kick our *** today". Watching the body language of our defense coming to the sideline and taking their seat on the bench, I knew we were in trouble. Not one word was said by any player to the guy next to him. No "let's pick it up", "what did your guy do on such and such play", not even a "what the 17 are you doing out there!". And to make matters worst, our D coaches didn't show much more emotion or have much more to say than the players. And it remained that way all day. Honest to goodness, after some series when our d came to the bench, our coaches didn't even go over and talk to the players! My point is, and I'm sorry I rambled on the D in an O thread, but my point is that team (or coaches) had no fire whatsoever from the very beginning of that game. Now back to the O-line.
42% of our total sacks for the year came in that one game. 26 sacks for the year, 11 in that one game. The other 11 games = 15 sacks.
I really think this new offense will make our o-line even better. Instead of having to give the QB 5-6 seconds to go thru their progressions of running the Gulf Coast Offense, we will be getting the ball out of the QB's hands in roughly half the time it use to take us. Motion, mis-direction, multiple sets will keep defenses from teeing off as in years past. This should make us better as well.
When there is a successful offensive play, are you watching the linemen? Can you tell which one made a perfect read on a blitzing linebacker? Which one pancaked a guy and helped out another lineman? Who's got the good footwork and who lines up in the right gaps? Therefore, to really see which linemen is truly good, you've got to go back and watch just them.bobbylabonte said:
Now, how easy is it to see a bad lineman? They are the ones desperately trying to hold their guy before the quarterback gets decleated. They're the ones flat on their backs. They are the ones who have all the penalties called on them. Therefore, there's no need for a replay to figure out who sucks.
Yeah, you can pin the sacks on two guys, Crxxm/McCorvey. OM was blitzing every play and those morons were calling plays with the QB under center and 7 step drops or long developing end arounds. However, Saulsbury was getting abused. But he got abused most games.
OM does us a favor
I learned in 2004 to not expect s*** from Crxxm at a egg bowl played in Oxford. I never seen a team so lifeless as the 2004 egg bowl. Of course I skipped the 06 and 08 games. So, maybe they top 06 and 08.
OM does us a favor
I learned in 2004 to not expect s*** from Crxxm at a egg bowl played in Oxford. I never seen a team so lifeless as the 2004 egg bowl. Of course I skipped the 06 and 08 games. So, maybe they top 06 and 08.
Saulsberry was weighing close to 270 at the end of last season. He should have never been out there. It was criminal what Croom put him through.
It is actually not that uncommon to see HS DLs be moved to OL in college. The reason for this is HS DLs tend to have better feet and be more athletic than a lot of HS OLs. That translates to better OL play once they learn technique.
Below were my comments last year after watching the "landshark" video on youtube. If I remember right, it was just a complete & utter failure all around.
<font size="2"><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000">You wouldn't think our guys were playing their 12th game of the year - look like a bunch of high-school guys.</font></font></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000"> </font></span></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">0:15 Is that Greg Hardy one-on-one with a TE?? how does that happen?</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">0:25 Complete failure - tackles get dominated & RG barely touches his man</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">0:50 takes 5 guys block 3 linemen - guess we forgot LBs can blitz?</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">1:07 Great block by AD</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">1:20 Again, we ignore the LB - look how open our WRs are at the bottom, RG also gets dominated again</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">1:33 Four man rush - entire right side is worthless</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">1:50 What is Tyson Lee doing? Throw the ball away - he's gotta know pressure coming from the backside too - it has been all game</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:04 Tyson Lee has no faith in AD at all - sees the LB blitzing and figured he's a goner, so he takes off immediately (too bad AD actually threw a decent block there) And again, the RT gets owned</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:16 Did Sherrod just get beat one-on-one by a safety?? who's #7?</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:25 Sherrod never saw the LB blitzing - released the RE to be blocked by the RB but the RB already had the LB coming, RG gets dominated. I love Sherrod's stance at the end - he's like "where's everybody at?"</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:34 RG gets owned once again - another TE matched up with Hardy</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:50 RE runs right by double team from TE & Sherrod, RB (freshman Bonner) did a nice job of picking up the blitzing...LB or S - whoever that was that came down just before the snap</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">3:02 Looked like a false start on the RT (was rocking back), and he still gets beat badly</font></span></font>
<font size="2"><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000">You wouldn't think our guys were playing their 12th game of the year - look like a bunch of high-school guys.</font></font></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000"> </font></span></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">0:15 Is that Greg Hardy one-on-one with a TE?? how does that happen?</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">0:25 Complete failure - tackles get dominated & RG barely touches his man</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">0:50 takes 5 guys block 3 linemen - guess we forgot LBs can blitz?</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">1:07 Great block by AD</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">1:20 Again, we ignore the LB - look how open our WRs are at the bottom, RG also gets dominated again</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">1:33 Four man rush - entire right side is worthless</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">1:50 What is Tyson Lee doing? Throw the ball away - he's gotta know pressure coming from the backside too - it has been all game</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:04 Tyson Lee has no faith in AD at all - sees the LB blitzing and figured he's a goner, so he takes off immediately (too bad AD actually threw a decent block there) And again, the RT gets owned</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:16 Did Sherrod just get beat one-on-one by a safety?? who's #7?</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:25 Sherrod never saw the LB blitzing - released the RE to be blocked by the RB but the RB already had the LB coming, RG gets dominated. I love Sherrod's stance at the end - he's like "where's everybody at?"</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:34 RG gets owned once again - another TE matched up with Hardy</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">2:50 RE runs right by double team from TE & Sherrod, RB (freshman Bonner) did a nice job of picking up the blitzing...LB or S - whoever that was that came down just before the snap</font></span></font> <p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </span></font></p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><font color="#000000">3:02 Looked like a false start on the RT (was rocking back), and he still gets beat badly</font></span></font>
As far as effort goes.
I have no idea what Hevesey can do with the OL, though I do think coaching can really improve OL play more than most positions.
I would just be concerned about the overall talent level of the O-line. Freeman couldn't beat out Saulsberry last year, that is troubling. At the end of the day, until the 2nd game, no one will know what type of OL MSU has.
I have no idea what Hevesey can do with the OL, though I do think coaching can really improve OL play more than most positions.
I would just be concerned about the overall talent level of the O-line. Freeman couldn't beat out Saulsberry last year, that is troubling. At the end of the day, until the 2nd game, no one will know what type of OL MSU has.
I had been saying for a LONG time that Grimes should have been fired at least two years ago. I think this was overshadowed by McCorvey's suckatude and Amos Jones at ST somewhat. We had maybe one decent o-line when Grimes was at MSU, and I'm being extremely wooly when I say decent. Another thing that stood out to me about Grimes- our o-linemen NEVER seemed to progress under him.
I don't think simply firing Grimes and getting a new o-line coach would have saved Croom, but it certainly would have helped. And if I was hell bent on keeping an *** clown as my OC, you better belive I'd make sure I at least had good position coaches.
And someone more qualified can answer this for me because I don't know a whole lot about coaching the offensive line- Why were our player not taught how to read blitzes and things like that? Is this a common thing with coaching an o-line? It would make sense to me that knowing who to block would be beneficial.
I don't think simply firing Grimes and getting a new o-line coach would have saved Croom, but it certainly would have helped. And if I was hell bent on keeping an *** clown as my OC, you better belive I'd make sure I at least had good position coaches.
And someone more qualified can answer this for me because I don't know a whole lot about coaching the offensive line- Why were our player not taught how to read blitzes and things like that? Is this a common thing with coaching an o-line? It would make sense to me that knowing who to block would be beneficial.