2024 Penn State WR Situation

[LionsAndBears]

Of course this is going to be the hot topic this offseason and for good reason. We haven't recruited or developed up to the expectation of a program with the pedigree of Penn State. We have done a really good job of recruiting QBs, the type you'd think a WR would want to play for. We've had offenses that passed the ball statistically as much or more than we run the ball. We have developed a few good NFL WRs like Godwin and ARob.

So what gives? Why aren't we getting better WR recruits and why aren't our WRs developing and putting up numbers like we need them to?

2024 Starting WRs IMO
X Fleming
Y Wallace
Z Saunders

 

[BobPSU92]

Here’s hoping our offense can get the runs, early and often.

 

[Nits74]

Of course this is going to be the hot topic this offseason and for good reason. We haven't recruited or developed up to the expectation of a program with the pedigree of Penn State. We have done a really good job of recruiting QBs, the type you'd think a WR would want to play for. We've had offenses that passed the ball statistically as much or more than we run the ball. We have developed a few good NFL Wrs like Godwin and ARob.

So what gives? Why aren't we getting better WR recruits and why aren't our WRs developing and putting up numbers like we need them to?

2024 Starting WRs IMO
X Fleming
Y Wallace
Z Saunders

One reason may be that Penn State no longer has the pedigree it once did. And yeah, development isn't what it should be.

 

[Anon1648262989]

One reason may be that Penn State no longer has the pedigree it once did. And yeah, development isn't what it should be.

Plain and simple it's a lack of recruiting the position. Some people say it's the position coach while others say the recruits come here because of Franklin in spite of the position coach. Receivers coach has been a revolving door for years which doesn't help. They have to fix the problem and soon. Sadly, again it doesn't look like the portal will be of much help this year. Coach K has a big job to do where the wideouts are concerned.

 

[Lion84]

Of course this is going to be the hot topic this offseason and for good reason. We haven't recruited or developed up to the expectation of a program with the pedigree of Penn State. We have done a really good job of recruiting QBs, the type you'd think a WR would want to play for. We've had offenses that passed the ball statistically as much or more than we run the ball. We have developed a few good NFL WRs like Godwin and ARob.

So what gives? Why aren't we getting better WR recruits and why aren't our WRs developing and putting up numbers like we need them to?

2024 Starting WRs IMO
X Fleming
Y Wallace
Z Saunders

Do we expect anything from the 2024 WR's? Brown, Denmark or Gonzales?

 

[PSU89er]

Brown is on campus but tore his ACL late last year and is unlikely to be 100%.

Gonzales is not on campus and was hurt as an underclassman and flew under the radar. He was probably better than his rating, but he was deemed as one of our lowest rated recruits.

Denmark is not on campus and is interesting. Early last cycle he was regarded as a very high 4 star, (top 100) recruit when he picked Oregon over OSU and PSU. Also, OSU wanted him, and they don't offer guys that are not special (OSU never offered Saunders as a WR). Then his ranking went into free fall.

 

[TheBigUglies]

Power I baby, who needs receivers!!!

 

[EricStratton-RushChairman]

Perhaps I should volunteer my services... I caught 12 TD passes helping lead my fraternity (Acacia) to win IMs back in 1987.

I might, might, be a tad slower now

 

[Bwifan]

Of course this is going to be the hot topic this offseason and for good reason. We haven't recruited or developed up to the expectation of a program with the pedigree of Penn State. We have done a really good job of recruiting QBs, the type you'd think a WR would want to play for. We've had offenses that passed the ball statistically as much or more than we run the ball. We have developed a few good NFL WRs like Godwin and ARob.

So what gives? Why aren't we getting better WR recruits and why aren't our WRs developing and putting up numbers like we need them to?

2024 Starting WRs IMO
X Fleming
Y Wallace
Z Saunders

My guess would be a little bit of everything.
1) I haven't been sold on the WR coaches JF has brought in....
2) Recruiting has not been good. (May have to do with coaching.)
3) Player development has not been good. (Goes on JF and WR coach for average recruiting and/or development)
4) Not sure Yurcich system was a good one for WRs. WRs seem to be hinting that they much prefer coach K system with a lot of movement and motion. Yurcich seemed to leave it up to the WRs to beat whoever was in front of them regardless if double team etc with little motion.

We will see what happens as Coach K does incorporate a bunch of motion in his offense scheme. I am interested to see if there is a difference in WRs getting open versus the last several years under Yurcich.

 

[Bwifan]

Perhaps I should volunteer my services... I caught 12 TD passes helping lead my fraternity (Acacia) to win IMs back in 1987.

I might, might, be a tad slower now

Crocs make you faster....

 

[GrimReaper]

Crocs make you faster....

DeadFish approves of this message.

 

[s1uggo72]

DeadFish approves of this message.

whatever happened to the Coolest Fish? didtn he run like 4.4 in crocs back in the day?

 

[Bwifan]

whatever happened to the Coolest Fish? didtn he run like 4.4 in crocs back in the day?

I thought he was on here but under a different handle? Maybe someone else can confirm

 

[PSUJam]

Just remember, the WR coach that recruited our current WR room is starting his second year coaching at Air Force Academy. I'm not sure if there's a college program that throws the ball less than AF. That was a terrible hire.

 

[Midnighter]

Just remember, the WR coach that recruited our current WR room is starting his second year coaching at Air Force Academy. I'm not sure if there's a college program that throws the ball less than AF. That was a terrible hire.

I think the WR issue is also related to QB's (who are largely left unscathed in these discussions, but equally complicit).

 

[PSUJam]

I think the WR issue is also related to QB's (who are largely left unscathed in these discussions, but equally complicit).

I agree but it's also this:

 

[Midnighter]

I agree but it's also this:

Okay, but what about losing to Michigan? We recruit on par with them. They spent more in Jimmy but he didn't even coach against us. Their interim guy ran the ball non stop and we couldn't do anything about it. Allar was 10/23 for 70 yards.

 

[PSUJam]

Okay, but what about losing to Michigan? We recruit on par with them. They spent more in Jimmy but he didn't even coach against us. Their interim guy ran the ball non stop and we couldn't do anything about it. Allar was 10/23 for 70 yards.

You're right about the QB play. He has to play better for sure. Hopefully the lightbulb goes on upstairs for him with the new offense. If not, it might be time to move on for him.

I can't comment on anything Michigan because they clearly cheated the past 3.5 years and I admittedly can't get over that to have a conversation that isn't all about cheating.

 

[BobPSU92]

Just remember, the WR coach that recruited our current WR room is starting his second year coaching at Air Force Academy. I'm not sure if there's a college program that throws the ball less than AF. That was a terrible hire.

Air Force prefers the ground game? WTF?!

 

[Connorpozlee]

I agree but it's also this:

That’s a creepy looking man.

 

[marshall23]

1. Does anyone remember when Sean Clifford was worthless and had no business standing in the way of Drew Allar?
2. " " " " " " " PSU didn't have enough fat defensive tackles?
3. " " " " " " " " PSU couldn't develop or recruit a decent offensive line?

We can all agree the solution is FIRE FRANKLIN!

Being a PSU fan is so taxing.

Power I baby, who needs receivers!!!
View attachment 559526

I'm tanned rested and ready. I made a career calling power I right, wham right!

 

[MontereyLion]

whatever happened to the Coolest Fish? didtn he run like 4.4 in crocs back in the day?

4.6

 

[EPC FAN]

Of course this is going to be the hot topic this offseason and for good reason. We haven't recruited or developed up to the expectation of a program with the pedigree of Penn State. We have done a really good job of recruiting QBs, the type you'd think a WR would want to play for. We've had offenses that passed the ball statistically as much or more than we run the ball. We have developed a few good NFL WRs like Godwin and ARob.

So what gives? Why aren't we getting better WR recruits and why aren't our WRs developing and putting up numbers like we need them to?

2024 Starting WRs IMO
X Fleming
Y Wallace
Z Saunders

WR is a prima donna position. Their ego wants NIL cash. COLLEGE footbal?

 

[BiochemPSU]

To answer the question:
There just aren't that may elite guys at the position in HS and we do not attract the few who are out there.
Why do we not attract them?
A. Our QBs have traditionally been good, but not great, and our offensive passing results are predictably mediocre.
B. Poor position coaching: I heard TJ Houshmandzadeh comment on a podcast that WR coach is usually the least prioritized spot on the entire staff. Bulk of them never played the position and it is used as a filler for coaches they want to retain and need to promote in order to keep. WR coach usually comes with the title of recruiting coordinator, so they never really focus on making guys better, they just go out and recruit.
C. Our head coach doesn't win enough against the big boys

 

[Blair10]

Of course this is going to be the hot topic this offseason and for good reason. We haven't recruited or developed up to the expectation of a program with the pedigree of Penn State. We have done a really good job of recruiting QBs, the type you'd think a WR would want to play for. We've had offenses that passed the ball statistically as much or more than we run the ball. We have developed a few good NFL WRs like Godwin and ARob.

So what gives? Why aren't we getting better WR recruits and why aren't our WRs developing and putting up numbers like we need them to?

2024 Starting WRs IMO
X Fleming
Y Wallace
Z Saunders

Let’s turn your question around. Suppose you have son who is a 4 or 5 star WR in high school. Why on earth would your son consider Penn State instead of the numerous other available options? Unless it is a legacy situation, the other options are much better than Penn State.

I think the root cause of the WR recruiting challenges is directly related to the disastrous offensive coordinators Franklin has hired. Donovan, Ciarrocca, and Yurcich were fired for their horrendous offense. Rahne was nudged out the door after 2 near disastrous years and that abominable 4th and 5 run play that gave the game to Ohio State 27-26 in 2018. Moorhead was a terrific hire by Franklin. So, basically 60% (excluding Kotelnicki) of the hired offensive coordinators have been fired. Not exactly the kind of results that high-end WR recruits would find appealing.

 

[BiochemPSU]

1. Does anyone remember when Sean Clifford was worthless and had no business standing in the way of Drew Allar?
2. " " " " " " " PSU didn't have enough fat defensive tackles?
3. " " " " " " " " PSU couldn't develop or recruit a decent offensive line?

We can all agree the solution is FIRE FRANKLIN!

Being a PSU fan is so taxing.

I'm tanned rested and ready. I made a career calling power I right, wham right!

1. I think most people said after that second loss during Sean's 15th senior season that it was time to move on and get Drew ready. No one hated him, they were just ready to move on because the overwhelming benefit to playing him was no longer to the benefit of the program or Drew.
2. Surprisingly, that group did well last year. Now, when it mattered, they got run over on 178 straight run plays against Michigan in the 4th quarter, but Cheatin' Michigan may have been a different animal. So we will give them a pass.
3. Jury is still out on this one for me. Recruiting has looked better. Lately we have struggled with the development of the center position. We still get exposed too often against the superior d-lines.

 

[Nitt1300]

Our pay scale isn't e-light

 

[PSUJam]

Let’s turn your question around. Suppose you have son who is a 4 or 5 star WR in high school. Why on earth would your son consider Penn State instead of the numerous other available options? Unless it is a legacy situation, the other options are much better than Penn State.

I think the root cause of the WR recruiting challenges is directly related to the disastrous offensive coordinators Franklin has hired. Donovan, Ciarrocca, and Yurcich were fired for their horrendous offense. Rahne was nudged out the door after 2 near disastrous years and that abominable 4th and 5 run play that gave the game to Ohio State 27-26 in 2018. Moorhead was a terrific hire by Franklin. So, basically 60% (excluding Kotelnicki) of the hired offensive coordinators have been fired. Not exactly the kind of results that high-end WR recruits would find appealing.

You're stuck in 2022. The real answer is PSU can't afford 5 star WR and honestly never could.

 

[BW Lion]

At the end of the day, it's Franklin.

He seems incapable of identifying general team weaknesses early (players, coaches) until it becomes apparent there is a real problem, and then he overreacts. He either fires the position coach or over-recruits.

 

[PSUJam]

 

[Midnighter]

You're stuck in 2022. The real answer is PSU can't afford 5 star WR and honestly never could.

And when we get them they’re ‘meh’. See Shorter, the top WR in his class.

 

[PSUJam]

And when we get them they’re ‘meh’. See Shorter, the top WR in his class.

Same as Fleming. The recruiting services that put a 5 star on players that dominate in single A or AA conferences should really consider the competition before giving them the hype.

 

[LB99]

And when we get them they’re ‘meh’. See Shorter, the top WR in his class.

Shorter was a bust, for sure. But there were some others who weren’t 5 stars that were pretty good. KJ Hamler, Jahan Dotson (3 star in the same recruiting class as Shorter), Parker Washington. I think if Evans played more last year, the WRs look much better. I think, if healthy, he can be pretty good. I like Clifford’s hands and they need Fleming and Wallace to stay healthy. Hopefully, Saunders finally takes that step forward and is productive. While the WR corps is unproven, the TE room is stacked and I expect the new OC to utilize that to our advantage. We are talking about the same guy who lined up an offensive linemen in the slot and ran him in motion to block the edge DE. He is creative. If the TEs are the strength, they will be utilized.

 

[TiogaLion]

Does anyone believe the problem with our passing game may have started with the downfall of our running game? If we don't have really good QB/WR combinations we should focus on using the run to setup the pass. Those with high level. QB/WR combinations can use the pass to setup the run, but that hasn't been us lately.

 

[marshall23]

Does anyone believe the problem with our passing game may have started with the downfall of our running game? If we don't have really good QB/WR combinations we should focus on using the run to setup the pass. Those with high level. QB/WR combinations can use the pass to setup the run, but that hasn't been us lately.

Here's another thought. At this level what a QB does before the snap, can be as important as what he does after. Clifford checking into the right play may have had a great deal to do with the success of the running game. No one should expect a first year starter to have the savvy of a 4-5 year starter. Allar has much greater athletic ability, however, he was not going to have the acumen in year 1 that Clff had. Blend in that the receivers may have started "pouting" and the OC didn't properly compensate and you have a very average offensive year.
Not many teams had offensive success vs. OSU and UM. While the offense didn't live up to expectations, in the rest of the games, if my memory is correct they scored points.

 

[Midnighter]

Shorter was a bust, for sure. But there were some others who weren’t 5 stars that were pretty good. KJ Hamler, Jahan Dotson (3 star in the same recruiting class as Shorter), Parker Washington. I think if Evans played more last year, the WRs look much better. I think, if healthy, he can be pretty good. I like Clifford’s hands and they need Fleming and Wallace to stay healthy. Hopefully, Saunders finally takes that step forward and is productive. While the WR corps is unproven, the TE room is stacked and I expect the new OC to utilize that to our advantage. We are talking about the same guy who lined up an offensive linemen in the slot and ran him in motion to block the edge DE. He is creative. If the TEs are the strength, they will be utilized.

Oh, we've had some really good receivers; those you've noted and look at Allen Robinson who was a 3* and probably the best receiver we've had this century, But guys like Shorter, Juwan Johnson, Irvin Charles, Saeed Blacknall, Daniel George, John Dunmore - all 4* or better - didn't live up to their ranking at all. And I'll add, we didn't recruit ANY WR's in 2013 or 2016.

 

[Bvillebaron]

To answer the question:
There just aren't that may elite guys at the position in HS and we do not attract the few who are out there.
Why do we not attract them?
A. Our QBs have traditionally been good, but not great, and our offensive passing results are predictably mediocre.
B. Poor position coaching: I heard TJ Houshmandzadeh comment on a podcast that WR coach is usually the least prioritized spot on the entire staff. Bulk of them never played the position and it is used as a filler for coaches they want to retain and need to promote in order to keep. WR coach usually comes with the title of recruiting coordinator, so they never really focus on making guys better, they just go out and recruit.
C. Our head coach doesn't win enough against the big boys

For the record, Hagans played WR in college and had coached several successful WRs at his other coaching stops.

 

[Bvillebaron]

Let’s turn your question around. Suppose you have son who is a 4 or 5 star WR in high school. Why on earth would your son consider Penn State instead of the numerous other available options? Unless it is a legacy situation, the other options are much better than Penn State.

I think the root cause of the WR recruiting challenges is directly related to the disastrous offensive coordinators Franklin has hired. Donovan, Ciarrocca, and Yurcich were fired for their horrendous offense. Rahne was nudged out the door after 2 near disastrous years and that abominable 4th and 5 run play that gave the game to Ohio State 27-26 in 2018. Moorhead was a terrific hire by Franklin. So, basically 60% (excluding Kotelnicki) of the hired offensive coordinators have been fired. Not exactly the kind of results that high-end WR recruits would find appealing.

That 4th and 5 call didn’t determine the outcome of that game. The loss was squarely on a defense that merely had to prevent OSU from scoring two TDs with about 8 minutes left in the game. OSU’s first score came quickly on a screen pass and the PSU defense reacted like it never saw that type of play before.

 

[Bvillebaron]

At the end of the day, it's Franklin.

He seems incapable of identifying general team weaknesses early (players, coaches) until it becomes apparent there is a real problem, and then he overreacts. He either fires the position coach or over-recruits.

Is he responsible for global warming too? See my other post about the defense’s total collapse against OSU in the last few minutes of that game. Lost to Michigan a few years back on a simple crossing pattern to a TE thrown 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage which he took to the house. Franklin has his faults like all other coaches but the simple minded blaming him for everything is beyond tiresome.

 

[Midnighter]

Is he responsible for global warming too? See my other post about the defense’s total collapse against OSU in the last few minutes of that game. Lost to Michigan a few years back on a simple crossing pattern to a TE thrown 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage which he took to the house. Franklin has his faults like all other coaches but the simple minded blaming him for everything is beyond tiresome.

His track record wrt offensive coaches is terrible. JoMo returned to earth once everyone figured out that Saquon Barkley, Gesicki, Godwin, and McSorley were the reasons for his success. Ciarocca (SP?) and Yurcich (SP?) also terrible. Lots of success on the D though. Does he meddle more on the O? Something is wrong.....