2026 B1G Tourney Session IV Thread

[tullfan68]

If I am interpreting what youre writing correctly, the rule and its application is clear as mud to me well.

refs don't even understand the rules so how can the public?

 

[tullfan68]

of there is time on the clock it's a TD reaction time is gone! so dumb

 

[Aardvark86]

refs don't even understand the rules so how can the public?

Look, i think it's safe to say there's likely a range of ref quality, though as Tom has noted, the guys at this level - Angel notwithstanding - are certainly going to be in the higher percentiles. Beyond that, I'm going to guess that when people go to ref school, and ref re-accreditation school, and take online ref CE courses, and maybe go through ref peer review if there is such a thing, there are probably about a gazillion videos they watch to teach the application of the rules in hard cases. So if anyone is going to understand them, it's likely going to be the refs, public be damned.

 

[Dren007]

That’s highway robbery. The whistle you guys get is insane. You’re very clearly the best team. That’s not what this is about. There is a very clear bias in favor of PSU wrestlers.

iirc ... the one time Davino beat Blaze in folkstyle, it was also a TBs decision; so thats 2 out of 3 in TBs for Davino.
Imo Blaze is capable of getting to Davino's leg just as the reverse; he just needs to quit waiting for the perfect time, and quit waiting for his preferred spin-around.

Still ... not much air between them.
.

Blaze should think Freestyle mode. I know it's different but if you watch those matches he was way more active.

 

[PSUPetch]

Thanks for the beginning of the opening sentence in your reply. I do try, to the best of my ability, to assist folks in understanding wrestling rules in general, and as in this case, in specific incidents/moves where there is a lot of debate by fans as to what should have been called.

I don't really accept your last sentence -- especially how you ended it. The rule was called correctly in this sequence. There really isn't something to which you should disagree (agree to disagree). I'm not offering an opinion as to what might be the case of what the ref did, or a guess as to what happened that we can't see on film -- those are things that folks can disagree on. I'm stating how a ref assesses whether to award a TD.

When a defensive wrestler is lifted off the mat, when a TD has not yet been awarded, then when they are returned to the mat, the ref must wait to determine if control is established after the return. Some defensive guys hit shoulder rolls, or granby rolls, or hit a switch as they are returned to the mat after being lifted (and other moves as well; I'm just listing a few). In none of those cases would a ref, or should a ref, award a TD. A ref has to be patient, and make sure control is established.

I think that McEnelly would have established control after returning Welsh, if he had enough time to do so. But a ref can't award anything based upon what they think will happen. Welsh is moving as soon as he hits the mat, which has been established was at something under 1 second left on the clock. McEnelly didn't have enough time to establish control, especially with Welsh moving after the return.

You've indicated in your reply that you are convinced that control was established. That's your opinion. But pretty much any established ref that watches that sequence is going to tell you that control was not established.

Thanks for this explanation. As a biased pro-Penn State diehard observer, I initially thought it was a takedown, but your explanation cleared some things up for me.

This situation kind of reminded me of those times when a top wrestler gets 2 1 count swipes rather than a 2 count, because the bottom wrestler turns back just enough before the 2 count. In the Rocco/Mac situation, Rocco lifted his hand just in time to avoid the initial takedown, and then the Granby attempt was ongoing when time ran out. So even though Mac ended up on top and in control, it was well after time expired...so even though it looked like a takedown to the lay person, it was in fact called correctly.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

refs don't even understand the rules so how can the public?

smh

1. the refs know the rules, forward and backward, and even the rules for arcane situations that don't occur very often. To think or conclude otherwise is just idiotic
2. you were replying to a post, which was a reply to a post where a poster just butchered the rules and then drew a number of inaccurate assumptions on their inaccurate understanding of the rules. But by all means, take that as the gospel

 

[Tom McAndrew]

of there is time on the clock it's a TD reaction time is gone! so dumb

you're totally screwing up the rules.

reaction time is not gone -- it was just removed a few years ago for a certain type of TD that of itself was only awarded (just in college; never in HS) for a few years.

How many times do I have to repeat myself that gaining control/establishing control is the key factor? Reaction time is just a subset of evaluating (along with other factors) whether or not control has been established.

An offensive wrestler can attain a TD with under 1 sec left on the clock, in certain situations. I'm not going to spend time detailing each/all of them, but it can happen. I've awarded such TDs many times over my reffing career. And of course, the coach whose wrestler is awarded the TD agrees with the call, and the coach whose wrestler was taken down in that situation is certain that the clock had run out, or that control had not been established. And the fans pretty much take the same side as their respective coach. It's really quite amusing to be in that type of situation, and having half the gym cheering at your decision and sure that you were correct, the other half of the gym complaining and at times screaming about how incompetent you are, and as a ref it was a pretty easy decision. I said in another post, but I'll repeat it, that 1) refs are usually very aware that the end of the period is approaching, and 2) in sequences at the end, after you've reffed enough matches, you see things almost in slow motion, and mentally are checking off that all the criteria have been met and also listening for the horn, and then make the appropriate call after it sounds.

 

[PSUbluTX]

Just saw a Facebook post by Ferrari Sr where he was whining about Welsh, claiming he was grabbing Angelo’s singlet during their match.

tbf welsh did very clearly grab the singlet at pivotal points in the match. that's probably one of the more reasonable complaints mr. ferrari's ever had lol

I didn't get a chance to read through this entire Session IV thread so I don't know if this has already been covered, but I'm wondering if Mr. Ferrari has commented on AJF's singlet grabs against Ghadiali. It happened at least once during the sequence where Michigan was challenging locked hands. In fact, at first I thought they were challenging the singlet grab.

It's pretty clear in the video below, even though the angle isn't great. I think the video should start at the right spot, but if not go to about the 5:40 mark. It doesn't look intentional to me, just like Rocco's.

 

[CTStall]

Davino and Blaze are very close right now. But one team peaks in the regular season and one at nationals. I’m okay with seeing that match at nationals

Blaze needs to act a little like Nolf. He should force the issue a little more and if he gives up a takedown he can probably create and opportunity to do something when he's on mount. Davino is just so good on his feet. Nolf never worried about giving a TD, in fact he would bait guys to attempt a shot.
Barr has a little of Nolf/Nickel in him when on top. He tries to iniate the start of a release from top and then looks for a big move, assassin/cradle.

 

[CTStall]

You’re blind. That’s been a takedown in college wrestling for 50 years until those idiots decided to reinterpret reaction time this year to mean 2 full seconds so they never have to make a tough call because they’re cowards who are bad at their job.

You are right that was consistent with how’s that’s been called this year. It’s been called wrong all year and it’s killing the ******* sport. Makes me sick.

What wasn’t consistent was the ref letting Haines walk straight out of bounds no call and then calling McEnelly on the same thing in the next match (if you want evidence of inconsistency).

I do agree that the reaction time rule is not good. It allows for too much judgement by referee. Scoring is down. If hands are on the mat, it's 3. You can still review to confirm the call.
The inconsistent stall calls have been an issue for years .

 

[Sunshine88!]

Or Casey Cunningham.

Working with Zain could really help before Nationals next week.