'25 Ironman Tournament (12/12-14) thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
interesting sequence.
You can see that Burnett's forearm goes into O'Brien's open mouth. Then, Burnett's forearm moves down so it's his wrist that is in the mouth. Alas, O'Brien's head turns so that you're looking at the top/back of his head when the incident occurred. The ref was in good position to see what happened. I'd concur with what @zzs006 pointed out in an earlier post, that the ref didn't make any signal, and did check out Burnett's arm.
It caused me to realize that I probably gave the indication that the call for flagrant misconduct due to biting should be instantaneous. Thinking back over the years, I think I've only done that one time. Pretty much every other time I'd be in position, and think to myself that it appears the a wrestler is biting their opponent, and then would look at the arm. So my apologies if I gave an inaccurate depiction in my earlier post(s). A ref should check the arm when they think there was biting, to confirm what they think they observed.
O'Brien certainly seemed unaware what the stoppage was for. From the video clip, I can't tell if O'Brien bit Burnett or not. It's tough to accurately convey how much clearer things usually are on the mat, than they are on video.
May have been self serving but Burnett coaches who were looking right at it were yelling he’s biting him before the stoppage.
Not conclusive in of itself -- you have to (as a ref) believe that you saw the opponent biting the wrestler:
You mostly tune that stuff out (the coaches), as they are yelling everything they can that could be to their advantage. But I can't deny that there are times that coaches will call things out where you hear them, and take a quick look, and draw the same conclusion.
Burnett did give up an advantageous position immediately when whatever happened
O'Brien's corner was the one that had a clear view of the bite/cross face. Grey is the one who was yelling about the biting.
You can clearly hear them yelling “he’s biting him”. If Grey was yelling this about himself, his grammar is comparable to your latest rankings or, maybe Grey’s corner was, in fact, yelling about the biting.
JK about the rankings (kinda), I know JD and Pyles are the problem and just want the clicks.
Grey's corner is far side - you can see his dad at the beginning of the video. It's Grey who yells, "He's biting me!" Your hearing is biased just like your view of the rankings
Regardless of if it was a bite or not, it's a shame the match had to end like this. I'm sure it's not the way Grey wanted to win, and it doesn't feel right that O'Brien is dq'd from the tournament either.
Regardless of if it was a bite? Looking at the picture, he even got Grey with his wisdom teeth!Grey's corner is far side - you can see his dad at the beginning of the video. It's Grey who yells, "He's biting me!" Your hearing is biased just like your view of the rankings
Regardless of if it was a bite or not, it's a shame the match had to end like this. I'm sure it's not the way Grey wanted to win, and it doesn't feel right that O'Brien is dq'd from the tournament either.
Grey's corner is far side - you can see his dad at the beginning of the video. It's Grey who yells, "He's biting me!" Your hearing is biased just like your view of the rankings
Regardless of if it was a bite or not, it's a shame the match had to end like this. I'm sure it's not the way Grey wanted to win, and it doesn't feel right that O'Brien is dq'd from the tournament either.
I agree that without malicious intent it is a shame O’Brien is completely out. I’m not a rule expert but maybe an equitable outcome would have been a point to Grey (which would have tied the match) and they finished the match on the mat.
126 pounds QF- Grey Burnett vs. Isaiah Jones (BIXB)
Period 1:
Here we go! Tying up immediately. Burnett drops to a leg, Jones tries to roll, but Burnett hangs on & finishes the TD, 3-0. Burnett throws in a leg & tries a turn, but no luck. He locks through the crotch & tries another turn, but no swipes. Jones counters & they scramble out of bounds, restart. Jones is still down. He gets to his feet, but Burnett takes him out of bounds, restart. Jones is still down. He works to a quadpod, but Burnett pressures forward. Burnett hits a tilt & gets 2 NF, 5-0. Jones gets the escape, 5-1. Jones reaches for a leg. Burnett reattacks & gets a leg. Jones throws in a whizzer & they go off the screen. Action stopped for PD. Neutral restart & time quickly expires.
Period 2:
Burnett takes down. He sits out, then tries a switch. He locks up a cradle & rolls Jones over. Burnett gets a reversal, 7-1 & then adds 2 NF, 9-1. Jones rolls free & they go out of bounds, restart. Jones is still down. Burnett tries another tilt, but can't hold it long enough for swipes. Burnett with a hard ride & Jones is struggling to get to his feet. Out of bounds & restart. Jones is still down. Burnett rides out the period. 9-1 Burnett
Period 3:
Jones takes down. Burnett is riding heavy & tries an arm bar, but it's blown dead for PD, restart. Jones works to his feet, then rolls, but Burnett stays with him & they go out of bounds, restart. Jones works to a quadpod & tries to roll, but Burnett stuffs him. Jones works to his feet, squares up & gets the escape, 9-2. Hand fighting & circling with some head tapping, 1-min left. Burnett drops to a leg, then finishes the TD on the edge, 12-2. Burnett goes back to the heavy ride. Out of bounds & restart. Jones is still down, 26-sec left. Jones works to a quadpod, then his feet. He turns, but Burnett drops to a leg. Jones locks through the crotch. Burnett hangs onto the leg & time expires.
Grey Burnett MD Isaiah Jones 12-2
Period 1:
Here we go! Tying up immediately. Burnett drops to a leg, Jones tries to roll, but Burnett hangs on & finishes the TD, 3-0. Burnett throws in a leg & tries a turn, but no luck. He locks through the crotch & tries another turn, but no swipes. Jones counters & they scramble out of bounds, restart. Jones is still down. He gets to his feet, but Burnett takes him out of bounds, restart. Jones is still down. He works to a quadpod, but Burnett pressures forward. Burnett hits a tilt & gets 2 NF, 5-0. Jones gets the escape, 5-1. Jones reaches for a leg. Burnett reattacks & gets a leg. Jones throws in a whizzer & they go off the screen. Action stopped for PD. Neutral restart & time quickly expires.
Period 2:
Burnett takes down. He sits out, then tries a switch. He locks up a cradle & rolls Jones over. Burnett gets a reversal, 7-1 & then adds 2 NF, 9-1. Jones rolls free & they go out of bounds, restart. Jones is still down. Burnett tries another tilt, but can't hold it long enough for swipes. Burnett with a hard ride & Jones is struggling to get to his feet. Out of bounds & restart. Jones is still down. Burnett rides out the period. 9-1 Burnett
Period 3:
Jones takes down. Burnett is riding heavy & tries an arm bar, but it's blown dead for PD, restart. Jones works to his feet, then rolls, but Burnett stays with him & they go out of bounds, restart. Jones works to a quadpod & tries to roll, but Burnett stuffs him. Jones works to his feet, squares up & gets the escape, 9-2. Hand fighting & circling with some head tapping, 1-min left. Burnett drops to a leg, then finishes the TD on the edge, 12-2. Burnett goes back to the heavy ride. Out of bounds & restart. Jones is still down, 26-sec left. Jones works to a quadpod, then his feet. He turns, but Burnett drops to a leg. Jones locks through the crotch. Burnett hangs onto the leg & time expires.
Grey Burnett MD Isaiah Jones 12-2
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One of my HS teammates won his regional final on a penalty point for biting his opponent's finger in the last 5 sec of a tied match.
Ref told the opponent he shouldn't have had his finger in my teammate's mouth, and docked him for a fishhook.
Things got hot, fast. The other coach got his guy off the mat at light speed. Smart move -- a post-match DQ would've kept his guy from going to states.
Ref told the opponent he shouldn't have had his finger in my teammate's mouth, and docked him for a fishhook.
Things got hot, fast. The other coach got his guy off the mat at light speed. Smart move -- a post-match DQ would've kept his guy from going to states.
Odd call to take down in the third while trailing 9-1 when you were just rode for 1:40. You then get ridden another 30+ seconds before escaping, exerting a lot of energy just to gain that one point. I think a lot of coaches are just automatic in choosing down, whether it makes sense for that particular match or not.
144 pounds QF- Gavin Mangano vs. Matthew O'Neill (MAPR)
Period 1:
Here we go. Tying up, then circling & hand fighting. O'Neill drops to a leg. Magano kicks free, squares up & sprawls back. Stalemate & restart. Both wrestlers are long & lanky, O'Neill a little more so. Circling & hand fighting. Mangano drops in on a leg. O'Neill locks through the crotch. Mangano tries to come up behind. O'Neill tries to roll through. Mangano keeps working & almost comes behind, but O'Neill rolls again. Both are rolling & scrambling, but O'Neill gets the TD, 3-0, with a few seconds left. O'Neill is funky.
Period 2:
O'Neill takes down. He hits an elevator & gets the escape, 4-0. Circling & tying up with some hand fighting. Mangano fakes a shot. Mangano takes O'Neill to the edge, then drops in on a leg. O'Neill counters & they roll out of bounds, neutral restart. Mangano inches forward, then hits a head outside single. O'Neill counters & gets a leg. They're head to feet & it's a stalemate, restart, 28-sec left. Circling & tying up. Mangano presses forward & time expires. 4-0 O'Neill
Period 3:
Mangano takes down. O'Neill tries to throw in a leg, but has it around Mangano's waist. O'Neill is a tough rider. O'Neill gets the boot in & works around Mangano's head. O'Neill gets a figure-4, then gets a stall warning, restart. Mangano is still down, but O'Neill is injured somehow. He's down on the mat & the coaches/trainer are out talking to him. I'm not sure what the injury was, but some rest & water seem to have fixed it. Back to action, 40-sec left. Caution on O'Neill. Mangano tries to explode up. O'Neill gets called for locked hands, point Mangano, 4-1. O'Neill's coach is out arguing now. Back to action, 36-sec left. Mangano works to his feet, but O'Neill trips him back to the mat. Mangano gets to his feet again & rolls, but O'Neill gets the boots in & takes him back to the mat. O'Neill rides out the period.
Matthew O'Neill DEC Gavin Mangano 4-1
Period 1:
Here we go. Tying up, then circling & hand fighting. O'Neill drops to a leg. Magano kicks free, squares up & sprawls back. Stalemate & restart. Both wrestlers are long & lanky, O'Neill a little more so. Circling & hand fighting. Mangano drops in on a leg. O'Neill locks through the crotch. Mangano tries to come up behind. O'Neill tries to roll through. Mangano keeps working & almost comes behind, but O'Neill rolls again. Both are rolling & scrambling, but O'Neill gets the TD, 3-0, with a few seconds left. O'Neill is funky.
Period 2:
O'Neill takes down. He hits an elevator & gets the escape, 4-0. Circling & tying up with some hand fighting. Mangano fakes a shot. Mangano takes O'Neill to the edge, then drops in on a leg. O'Neill counters & they roll out of bounds, neutral restart. Mangano inches forward, then hits a head outside single. O'Neill counters & gets a leg. They're head to feet & it's a stalemate, restart, 28-sec left. Circling & tying up. Mangano presses forward & time expires. 4-0 O'Neill
Period 3:
Mangano takes down. O'Neill tries to throw in a leg, but has it around Mangano's waist. O'Neill is a tough rider. O'Neill gets the boot in & works around Mangano's head. O'Neill gets a figure-4, then gets a stall warning, restart. Mangano is still down, but O'Neill is injured somehow. He's down on the mat & the coaches/trainer are out talking to him. I'm not sure what the injury was, but some rest & water seem to have fixed it. Back to action, 40-sec left. Caution on O'Neill. Mangano tries to explode up. O'Neill gets called for locked hands, point Mangano, 4-1. O'Neill's coach is out arguing now. Back to action, 36-sec left. Mangano works to his feet, but O'Neill trips him back to the mat. Mangano gets to his feet again & rolls, but O'Neill gets the boots in & takes him back to the mat. O'Neill rides out the period.
Matthew O'Neill DEC Gavin Mangano 4-1
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Going down not the right choice. He was close to a couple tds. I would’ve went neutral for sure
Shepherd looks really good. Super aggressive and good finishes
That headlock was close! I think it was the right call but man it was close
That headlock was close! I think it was the right call but man it was close
The HS rules are more explicit, and biting is specifically listed as one of the examples of flagrant misconduct.
I'm not a college ref, so I'm always careful about what I state about the college rules.
The college rules, in general, are less specific than the HS rules The rule for flagrant misconduct in college states:
Rule 5: Infractions
Section 5: FLAGRANT MISCONDUCT
Art. 1. Description. Flagrant misconduct can occur before, during or after a match. It may include, but is not limited to: nonphysical and physical acts of misbehavior, such as intentionally striking an opponent; executing an intentional drill or forceful fall back on an opponent; deliberately attempting to injure an opponent; or any act serious enough to disqualify a wrestler from an event.
I'm not sure if there is a case book for college wrestling. I know, from talking to the college refs, that they get all kinds of online training and review, and frequent updates during the season. So biting may be identified in the case book, or during their annual training. Or, it may be presumed that "deliberately attempt to injure an opponent, or any act serious enough to disqualify a wrestler from an event" covers biting. I just don't know.
In college, flagrant misconduct is a disqualification in a dual, or for the rest of the tournament.
144 pounds QF- Clinton Shepherd vs. Robert Duffy (CBA)
Period 1:
Shepherd has the full face mask on again. Shepherd drops to a leg. Duffy throws in a whizzer, but Shepherd stays with him & finishes the TD, 3-0. Shepherd cuts Duffy, 3-1. Out of bounds & restart. Shepherd tries a throw by, then drops to a leg. Duffy throws in a shin whizzer, but Shepherd finishes the TD, 6-1. Shepherd cuts Duffy, 6-2. Shepherd shoots again. Duffy throws in a whizzer again & it's stopped for a locked hands call on Shepherd, point Duffy, 6-3, neutral restart. Wait, they were in neutral & the locked hands is waived off, 6-2. Shepherd presses forward. Duffy throws Shepherd & is looking for the TD. The ref calls the TD, but then waives if off right before the period ends. 6-2 Shepherd.
Period 2:
Shepherd takes down. Duffy sucks him back, then Shepherd steps over his leg & shelves it. Shepherd grabs the head & gets the reversal, 8-2. Action stopped for PD. Duffy tries to roll off the restart, but Shepherd stays with him. Duffy is turtled up & Shepherd is riding tough. Shepherd gets a stall warning, restart. Duffy tries to roll, but Shepherd stays with him & rides out the period. 8-2 Shepherd
Period 3:
Duffy takes neutral. Tying up ear to ear. Duffy tries a headlock, but slips & Shepherd gets the TD, 11-2. Shepherd gets Duffy bellied out & is hammering on him from top, 1-min left. Stall call on Duffy. He's still on his belly. Shepherd is looking for a turn, but can't get swipes. Duffy works back to his base, but then gets another stall warning, point Shepherd, 12-2. Shepherd rides out the period for the major.
Clinton Shepherd MD Robert Duffy 12-2
Period 1:
Shepherd has the full face mask on again. Shepherd drops to a leg. Duffy throws in a whizzer, but Shepherd stays with him & finishes the TD, 3-0. Shepherd cuts Duffy, 3-1. Out of bounds & restart. Shepherd tries a throw by, then drops to a leg. Duffy throws in a shin whizzer, but Shepherd finishes the TD, 6-1. Shepherd cuts Duffy, 6-2. Shepherd shoots again. Duffy throws in a whizzer again & it's stopped for a locked hands call on Shepherd, point Duffy, 6-3, neutral restart. Wait, they were in neutral & the locked hands is waived off, 6-2. Shepherd presses forward. Duffy throws Shepherd & is looking for the TD. The ref calls the TD, but then waives if off right before the period ends. 6-2 Shepherd.
Period 2:
Shepherd takes down. Duffy sucks him back, then Shepherd steps over his leg & shelves it. Shepherd grabs the head & gets the reversal, 8-2. Action stopped for PD. Duffy tries to roll off the restart, but Shepherd stays with him. Duffy is turtled up & Shepherd is riding tough. Shepherd gets a stall warning, restart. Duffy tries to roll, but Shepherd stays with him & rides out the period. 8-2 Shepherd
Period 3:
Duffy takes neutral. Tying up ear to ear. Duffy tries a headlock, but slips & Shepherd gets the TD, 11-2. Shepherd gets Duffy bellied out & is hammering on him from top, 1-min left. Stall call on Duffy. He's still on his belly. Shepherd is looking for a turn, but can't get swipes. Duffy works back to his base, but then gets another stall warning, point Shepherd, 12-2. Shepherd rides out the period for the major.
Clinton Shepherd MD Robert Duffy 12-2
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Shepherd looked great. Duffy is an Iowa commit so it’s good he’s already getting used to losing to PSU kids
165 pounds QF- Jayden James vs. Barry Norman (BLAC)
Period 1:
Circling & tying up. James presses forward & drops to a leg. Norman tries to fight him off. James switches to a backside double & gets the TD, 3-0. Out of bounds & restart. James cuts Norman, 3-1. James reaches for an ankle. Norman counters & gets a leg. James recounters, hits a butt drag & go behind for another TD, 6-1. Out of bounds & restart. James lets Norman up, 6-2. James reaches for a leg, but no luck. He reaches again, gets the leg & quickly finishes the TD, 9-2. James decides to ride, but they go out of bounds, restart. Norman is still down. James gives up the escape, 9-3, 23-sec left. James comes forward with an underhook, then drops to the legs for another TD, 12-3. James rides out the period.
Period 2:
James takes neutral. Norman gets to a leg, but James fights out of it. James jacks up an underhook, drops to the legs & finishes another TD, 15-3. Out of bounds & restart. James concedes the escape, 15-4. James reaches & gets an ankle, then finishes the TD, 18-4, 1:22-left. James cuts Norman, 18-5. James perfectly times a double leg & finishes the TD, 21-5. James is looking sharp!
Jayden James TECH Barry Norman 21-5 (3:00)
Period 1:
Circling & tying up. James presses forward & drops to a leg. Norman tries to fight him off. James switches to a backside double & gets the TD, 3-0. Out of bounds & restart. James cuts Norman, 3-1. James reaches for an ankle. Norman counters & gets a leg. James recounters, hits a butt drag & go behind for another TD, 6-1. Out of bounds & restart. James lets Norman up, 6-2. James reaches for a leg, but no luck. He reaches again, gets the leg & quickly finishes the TD, 9-2. James decides to ride, but they go out of bounds, restart. Norman is still down. James gives up the escape, 9-3, 23-sec left. James comes forward with an underhook, then drops to the legs for another TD, 12-3. James rides out the period.
Period 2:
James takes neutral. Norman gets to a leg, but James fights out of it. James jacks up an underhook, drops to the legs & finishes another TD, 15-3. Out of bounds & restart. James concedes the escape, 15-4. James reaches & gets an ankle, then finishes the TD, 18-4, 1:22-left. James cuts Norman, 18-5. James perfectly times a double leg & finishes the TD, 21-5. James is looking sharp!
Jayden James TECH Barry Norman 21-5 (3:00)
James putting on a clinic. I’m so excited for him vs Melvin
You can tell Jayden has wrestled with PJ a lot. Becoming a bully.
There is a Hamiti competing for Stillwater. Assuming that it is Dean’s younger brother. Haven’t heard anything about him but he is beating #1 Singer late in the 3rd
Singer scores a late td to go up 5-4 with :14 left. Singer wins 5-4
Singer scores a late td to go up 5-4 with :14 left. Singer wins 5-4
Semi-finals (tomorrow morning):
Bout #832: 126 pounds- #2 Grey Burnett vs. #3 Nicholas Garcia (MAAC)
Bout #838: 144 pounds- #3 Clinton Shepherd vs. #2 Tyler Dekraker (LHP)
Bout #844: 165 pounds- #2 Jayden James vs. #6 Liam Kelly (MTCA)
Bout #832: 126 pounds- #2 Grey Burnett vs. #3 Nicholas Garcia (MAAC)
Bout #838: 144 pounds- #3 Clinton Shepherd vs. #2 Tyler Dekraker (LHP)
Bout #844: 165 pounds- #2 Jayden James vs. #6 Liam Kelly (MTCA)
What time are the semis slated for? All apologies, I'm too lazy to look it up....lol
If Finnegan O'Brien was the PSU commit, people would be condemning him for being dirty as well as stupid for biting when up.
Everyone can get lost, Grey is one of us now.
Everyone can get lost, Grey is one of us now.
Slippery, thanks for the PBP. Much appreciated.
If asking Nelson you must phrase question as a wager.