This scenario already was discussed between ESCC and Fenwick not too long ago. ESCC would love to add Fenwick. Heck they tried to add Fenwick multiple times throughout the years. It would be a very good fit but for now it's purely hypothetical.
3 CCL Teams to the Semi-Finals
- Thread starter Cat Box
- Start date
Can you imagine if they did join and demanded not to play Marist, JCA, Benet, Naz, etc.?
Not exactly.
The CCL originally wanted DLS and Fenwick in the Blue, so that there would be seven schools and six division games. Instead, there are five schools and four division games. More schools in the CCL Blue would mean that there wouldn't need to be as many inter division crossover games involving CCL Blue teams.
So, one could very easily and correctly say that the intransigence of Fenwick to play in the CCL Blue is one reason why schools like St. Joe, Leo, DePaul Prep, etc. have to play as many crossover games as they do.
You can argue with me until you're blue in the face its not going to accomplish anything. This exact scenario has been discussed, numerous times actually, between Fenwick and CCL, Fenwick and ESCC as well at Fenwick alone. The plan is to remain in the CCL, like we always have, but with all those discussions Fenwick would be foolish not to have contingency plans and they have one. You're not going to like it but if you want to try and force our hand go ahead. I'm not a decision maker at Fenwick but I know those that are and that decision is already made based on both scenarios.
You can try all you want to make your message board super conferences to suit what you want but seem to fail to understand that each school has their own administration that worries about what's best for them not what's best for ramblinman. I'm sorry you don't like it or agree but it is what it is.
I personally am very impressed Loyola has been able to achieve the athletic success they have while maintaining their academic environment. It's honestly impressive, Fenwick hasn't been able to quite figure out how to do that. Maybe you're recruiting department can share some tips with Fenwick. As for the rest of the CCL Blue... Fenwick isn't looking to become them or to have to try and compete with them. For the most part they don't operate the same or have the same values. Fenwick isn't better or worse than those schools but they are different.
I still fail to understand why you have pinpointed Fenwick and not Montini as the team you think you need to force into the Blue. Enrollment is the only argument you can make as to why Fenwick is a better fit than Montini.
No Fenwick wouldn't have any issue playing teams on a similar level with similar values. None of those aforementioned schools recruit like MC, SR, BR, Provi and yes Loyola. Also with the exception of Loyola all of those schools in the ESCC sans JCA are far superior to the CCL Blue teams.
My point didn't have much to do with the CCL as a whole. The Blue could care less about the Red division and how many crossovers they have to play. They are worried about their own win total which is completely understandable argument. To say that teams like Provi and MC aren't legitimate playoff teams is ridiculous even during these "down" years for them. The CCL as a whole though does have legitimate arguments for larger divisions and less crossovers. This argument is only going to lead to the general concensus that in order to attempt to make everyone happy is to somehow completely dismantle the current divisions and make some type of equal 2 or 3 divisions with either 6 teams in each or 9 teams and completely scrap non-conference, which won't happen anytime soon
Didn't Fenwick beat Montini this year? AND Phillips? AND PC?
Congratulations. You've made it. Time to man up and play up.
I find it rather unseemly the way you are so quick to point the finger anywhere else instead of just raising your hand and saying, yes, let's do it. Instead, you are "quite happy," to borrow your own words, to be the biggest kid on the playground while the smaller kids like Leo (another school with a long and storied CCL history) have to play more inter division crossover games because you just want to be fat and happy because you think that's what is best for you. Really quite selfish when you think about it.
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When did Fenwick get this way? What happened? Did going coed make you go soft? What happened to the men of steel? Most Fenwick alums who I know would cringe if they saw you attempting to make an argument that Fenwick was not up to playing with the big boys -- especially this year.
Peace out. Feel free to have the last word.
When did Fenwick get this way? What happened? Did going coed make you go soft? What happened to the men of steel? Most Fenwick alums who I know would cringe if they saw you attempting to make an argument that Fenwick was not up to playing with the big boys -- especially this year.
Peace out. Feel free to have the last word.
Don't mean this to come off as rude but I don't think you understand that move. Fenwick's hand was forced. I assure you that would have no bearing on further deals.
You might have some support at Fenwick if it was a rotational thing but again this year is an anomaly, not the norm. This Fenwick team could compete but that doesn't mean future teams will. Fenwick loses a lot after this season and although I will certainly be cheering for their success they will struggle. They would struggle mightily in the Blue in '17, at least on paper. So because they beat those teams in 2016 that means they'll be competitive in '17, '18 and '19? You're really this blind to what's best for Fenwick? I know you want them to be the CCL b*tch but come on you really can't see why Fenwick wouldn't want to make that move? Really??? Fenwick is being selfish because they are most concerned with their well being and not a school like Leo that won't even be open in 5-10 years? I'm sure everything Loyola's administration does is with Leo in mind. Get over yourself. Also if you really think that questioning my or Fenwick's manhood is going to someone make a difference you're more blind to my pov than I even could have imagined.
This is a buisness decision and doing anything other than what is best for your company and stockholders is just bad business. Fenwick is smarter than putting itself in a bad situation.
what has helped Fenwick above all over all of these years of arguing if they should move to the Blue is De La Salle!1. they have been their partner in all of this as both, emphasis on both, have had each others back on this. Every single scenario has been brought up from the last place team in the Blue moving down 1 year and the champion of the other division moving up etc. but Fenwick and De la Salle always as a a pair say none of it will happen or we are leaving....so then who do you move up Ignatius??? All the new schools will not do it (Montini, St. Francis, Marmion, etc.) they would never have joined the league under those circumstances.
Basically it comes down to this, the 5 top dogs stay together in a 5 team division or you split them up like in the old days 3 go to one division and the other 2 go to another division and mix them up with the green....keep it geographic as much as possible:
Basically it comes down to this, the 5 top dogs stay together in a 5 team division or you split them up like in the old days 3 go to one division and the other 2 go to another division and mix them up with the green....keep it geographic as much as possible:
Go back to pre 1996 Conferences by Geography. Split up the Blue and have mixed conferences.
The difference, however, is that if DLS belongs in any other division besides the Green, it would be the White before the Blue.
Again, Fenwick is 7-3 in 7A playoff games since 2013. They belong in the Blue whether they believe it or not.
And IHSA conference standings "conveniently" only go back to 1996. What was the last split between North and South for 1995?
Whoa....you realize these are Catholic schools...but they do tend to take that more seriously in the ESCC schools (especially CoM).
Pre 1996 included Hales, Weber and SFDS and not Marmion, Montini, St. Joe, St. Francis and Aurora Christian. It also had Loyola playing with the more competitive south side schools as I recall.
What a purely geographical CCL might look like with today's football playing schools:
North
Loyola
DePaul
Fenwick
St Joe
Montini
Central
Ignatius
DLS
Leo
SR
MC
St Francis
South
Laurence
BR
PC
Mac
Marmion
Aurora Christian
Feel free to tinker around with it. I think any way you slice it, it still stinks.
This is why the CCL would really love to have 24 in an ideal world or 18 at least
And I'm just sayin' that's another crock of crap. Especially the "PERIOD!"
Why should it be 100% up to teams to determine what division they want to be in? What if the CSL wanted GBN to play in the South? What if GBS and Niles North demanded to move to the North and no North team wanted to move to the South?
You can't have inmates running the asylum.
well if you force them they leave.....call their bluff and you lose one of the founders of the conference. When this goes to a vote however the 5 Blue might say force them but the rest will not vote that way because they know if Fenwick leaves one of them may be up next in order to move up...the Blue schools compromise too and say oh screw it and stay at 5
One would think just the honor alone of being included in the Chicago Catholic League would be enough for all these schools. After all, it is the greatest conference in the history of the United States. It is truly a blessing and a gift from God to even be included with such programs. Petty complaints about where one specific school fits in, even if it is your own school, are very unbecoming. Now lets get a win in the Prep Bowl!
The conference saga continues..... Fenwick is a proud academic instittuituon with very solid athletics. There has to be a split of the ccl, the old scc moved in and they will move out soon.
Mac
Ac
ICCP
St Francis
Marmion
Fenwick
Montini
Acc
Looks to be a solid conference. The new wscc.
The issue is all schools have to act in their best interests, Marmion has a huge wrestling contingency, montini a huge football interest. Travel for all sports come into play. Not all schools have the same financial backing or similar academic standards, size of school, these and other factors come into play.
The ADs of these school have a lot to consider. I don't envy their job. Forum discussion is real easy, acting in the best interests of their prospective student body is very complex.
Mac
Ac
ICCP
St Francis
Marmion
Fenwick
Montini
Acc
Looks to be a solid conference. The new wscc.
The issue is all schools have to act in their best interests, Marmion has a huge wrestling contingency, montini a huge football interest. Travel for all sports come into play. Not all schools have the same financial backing or similar academic standards, size of school, these and other factors come into play.
The ADs of these school have a lot to consider. I don't envy their job. Forum discussion is real easy, acting in the best interests of their prospective student body is very complex.
Hostile is the man referring to inmates!
Your logic fails to explain why Fenwick shouldn't be able to do what they want.
It may not be ideal for the CCL,and the conference can make their demands, but ultimately it should be up to Fenwick.
It would be interesting if the ESCC went to SFHS and Marmion and invited them. Being in the ESCC makes more sense than the CCL for those two.
12 teams/2 divisions of 6.
12 teams/2 divisions of 6.
Not that it matters all that much, but Fenwick is not one of the CCL founders.
Regardless of what anyone else says, I find it hard to imagine Fenwick moving to a different conference solely over being forced to play in the Blue. They would give up CCL membership over a football divisional placement within the conference? They would give up CCL competition in all other boys sports, especially swimming, because of a football divisional placement? Seems a stretch.
I keep hearing that it's a business decision. Keeping it in business terms, I think dropping out of the CCL would be difficult to sell to Fenwick alumni.
St. Francis would cry and probably want to switch with SL, for starters or be put North. BR can then tout less Gately or 79th/Western visits.
In the proposed new WSSC there's no St. Eds....would they benefit if the campus relocated north/west to the Randall Road area closer to Algonquin (you guys were talking about planting the flag along I-90 last week)?
When a school belongs to an athletic conference, it defers a certain amount of athletics decision making to that conference. Fenwick shouldn't be able to do what they want if the conference they belong to doesn't agree with what they want.
Answer the questions I posed earlier. What if GBS and Niles North demanded to play in the CSL North? According to you, it's up to them and the rest of the conference should have no say in the matter. According to you, every school should be able to do whatever they want. PERIOD!
Don't let the man keep you down. Free love! Free Angela! Power to the People! Down with the Establishment!
The ESCC did approach St Francis and Marmion back in 2014.....however the ESCC would not take a certain SCC team. Marmion, St Franics and the unnamed team presented themselves as a package deal.
There is a certain team that was the main reason why the scc broke up in the first place. Don't agree with the breaking up of great group but I understand the logic. Francis does not want to be in the same conference as benet, Marmion loves the ccl for football and lacrosse, huge money donors in those sports. Tough thread to answer here.
They have the choice to stay or not rather than being bullied by the almighty voices of the we know better than knights who say "NIH"
Is this correct?
When did the CCL become God?
Did I miss something?
BTW... I, along with everyone else I know could give a rip about what GBS, NN, NW
Do!
They wanna play, let's play.. as one can see we are not shying away in our non-conf schedules. All of the boo hoo BS is killing the game
Let them move. Then we get more non conf games to beef up our schedule!
And then it will affect our conference record, mass hysteria, dogs sleeping with cats...
Mayhem
You didn't answer mine
Do we get a 7 paragraph response with charts and diagrams and all??
And then it will affect our conference record, mass hysteria, dogs sleeping with cats...
Mayhem
You didn't answer mine
Do we get a 7 paragraph response with charts and diagrams and all??