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SalemPride

Sophomore
Dec 7, 2004
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1MoreHokie said:
http://www.nvdaily.com/sports/2015/12/2015-all-region-4a-west-football-team/

So uh, did someone send in the stats wrong for Shaquille Howell and Deangelo Ramsey? Love Shaquille, big help on the DL this year but the star was Deangelo and he is nowhere on that list despite huge numbers.
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I really have to question who did the voting for this. Now I know that not every player can make this list but WOW they really left off some no brainers. Leaving off both Ramsey brothers is absolutely ridiculous!
 
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SalemPride

Sophomore
Dec 7, 2004
503
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1MoreHokie said:
http://www.nvdaily.com/sports/2015/12/2015-all-region-4a-west-football-team/

So uh, did someone send in the stats wrong for Shaquille Howell and Deangelo Ramsey? Love Shaquille, big help on the DL this year but the star was Deangelo and he is nowhere on that list despite huge numbers.
Click to expand...
The voting also seems very biased towards the northern teams..
Woodgrove: 13 players on the list
John Champe: 12 players on the list
Salem: 10 players on the list
Jefferson Forest: 8 players on the list

2 best teams in the West get less representatives than the teams they dominated head to head? Something smells very fishy here!!
 
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1MoreHokie

All-Conference
Sep 25, 2005
16,221
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SalemPride said:
I really have to question who did the voting for this. Now I know that not every player can make this list but WOW they really left off some no brainers. Leaving off both Ramsey brothers is absolutely ridiculous!
Click to expand...

Pretty sure when they sent stats in or whatever they flipped Howell and D. Ramsey's because Howell did well but he wasn't that good while the opposite is true of Ramsey, he was absolutely a 1st teamer and played especially well in the playoffs(terrorizing JC, JF, and LT). I would have thought Alex would have snuck in somewhere between the 1,000 yards rushing and being a lynchpin for such a great D but what can you do. I suspect the all-state version will be quite different.
 
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shauntclair

Senior
Oct 19, 2008
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Shabutie

All-Conference
Dec 2, 2006
21,693
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The way they do the voting and selection for this is horrendous and has been for many years.
 
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close2salem

Junior
Dec 7, 2014
400
226
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Shabutie said:
They favor seniority far too much for starters but there are more issues than that.
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What are the issues? The oldest Ramsey is a senior, he will not have another chance. There were others from Salem who should've made the list. Do they just look at stats? I'm very curious about the process?
 
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VaPrepsRod

Senior
Jul 5, 2008
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1MoreHokie said:
Pretty sure when they sent stats in or whatever they flipped Howell and D. Ramsey's because Howell did well but he wasn't that good while the opposite is true of Ramsey, he was absolutely a 1st teamer and played especially well in the playoffs(terrorizing JC, JF, and LT). I would have thought Alex would have snuck in somewhere between the 1,000 yards rushing and being a lynchpin for such a great D but what can you do. I suspect the all-state version will be quite different.
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Sent in the stats?

I would have assume that Coach Mags was at the meeting.
 
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VolNation85_rivals

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2013
2,590
2,365
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1MoreHokie said:
http://www.nvdaily.com/sports/2015/12/2015-all-region-4a-west-football-team/

So uh, did someone send in the stats wrong for Shaquille Howell and Deangelo Ramsey? Love Shaquille, big help on the DL this year but the star was Deangelo and he is nowhere on that list despite huge numbers.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, voting isn't based on stats alone. It's more so a popularity contest. The coaches in the region vote on who makes it. Each coach can only nominate a certain number of players based on how many wins their team has. So it is highly likely that Howell and Deangelo both were nominated by their coach but because Salem already had a certain number of players selected they were left off.
 
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Salem1215

Redshirt
Oct 9, 2009
20
0
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1MoreHokie said:
Pretty sure when they sent stats in or whatever they flipped Howell and D. Ramsey's because Howell did well but he wasn't that good while the opposite is true of Ramsey, he was absolutely a 1st teamer and played especially well in the playoffs(terrorizing JC, JF, and LT). I would have thought Alex would have snuck in somewhere between the 1,000 yards rushing and being a lynchpin for such a great D but what can you do. I suspect the all-state version will be quite different.
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Poor choice of words describing Howell's play! "he wasn't that good".
 
7

71ShadesofNavy

All-American
Dec 4, 2013
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It could be that the Salem coach only nominated either Ramsey's for defense/offense. By looking at the running backs i can see why the eldest Ramsey did not get the required votes. He easily could have split with Claiborne. Similarly, they both could have been nominated for defense and the votes were split. Thats why as a coach you need to only nominate a select few. More chance of getting your guys on the list.

I remember in the central region coaches used to get together a vote for each others players. This is not uncommon. Sometimes its lonely at the top and if your peers collude against your team your players suffer.

I did see where someone posted "hopefully the state list would be better". Sorry Spartan fans only POY and 1st team regional players are eligible for VHSL all state.
 
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shauntclair

Senior
Oct 19, 2008
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Seniority rules. Years of service rules. Then it becomes diplomacy between the voters (Coachs). "you give me this one, I'll owe you one next year." They do this to get a final vote or they'd be stalemated all night. Stats help present an argument but probably count for less than 50% of the final tally.

For State. You cannot be considered All-State without being All Region. That's just how it works and there is no written rule.

Look to the VAPreps All-State Team. They are not encumbered by the politics or the unwritten rules. If they think you're the best this year, you're on the team.

Just an FYI. No kid that makes either team is undeserving. They've earned recognition. Just congratulate and move on because, in reality, this designation gets your name in the paper and a plaque. That's it. There's a lot more life to go and learning it's not fair is a good thing.
 
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VaPrepsRod

Senior
Jul 5, 2008
58,360
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shauntclair said:
Look to the VAPreps All-State Team. They are not encumbered by the politics or the unwritten rules. If they think you're the best this year, you're on the team.
Click to expand...

 
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1MoreHokie

All-Conference
Sep 25, 2005
16,221
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Salem1215 said:
Poor choice of words describing Howell's play! "he wasn't that good".
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"That" is in reference to being 1st team 4A West. Deangelo was without a doubt the best DL on the team this year and his ridiculous stats bore that out. Howell had a great year and was a part of that dominant D but Deangelo was better and it's puzzling to not see Deangelo anywhere on any of the lists, hence why I think when this was discussed or voted upon, someone goofed and switched names. It would make far more sense for Deangelo to be on the list and Howell not on it than what has transpired.

Deangelo's defensive year was as good as Viante Tucker's offensive year and Viante was 1st team so...
 
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Shabutie

All-Conference
Dec 2, 2006
21,693
1,174
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1MoreHokie said:
"That" is in reference to being 1st team 4A West. Deangelo was without a doubt the best DL on the team this year and his ridiculous stats bore that out. Howell had a great year and was a part of that dominant D but Deangelo was better and it's puzzling to not see Deangelo anywhere on any of the lists, hence why I think when this was discussed or voted upon, someone goofed and switched names. It would make far more sense for Deangelo to be on the list and Howell not on it than what has transpired.

Deangelo's defensive year was as good as Viante Tucker's offensive year and Viante was 1st team so...
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In the past I have literally seen the worst starter on a team get first team on this. Guy played DT and had 24 tackled and 1/2 sack for the year and got pushed all around the field.
 
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shauntclair

Senior
Oct 19, 2008
8,304
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VaPrepsRod said:
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i seem to recall this is a clip of two truly evil little girls who want to kill one another while professing their undying love and loyalty. i will take it this is not what you meant.

Best to you and your family during the Holidays. Another great year fo VAPreps. Thanks for the work you and the staff do. It's why I'm still here.
 
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