Says the guy that enters the conversation saying it’s better for kids to have overworked miserable teachers and then arguing with me about something I never even said while I was having an adult conversation with someone else. Go have another drink, good grief.
6 point plan to attract and retain teachers
- Thread starter Glenn's Take
- Start date
Says the guy that enters the conversation saying it’s better for kids to have overworked miserable teachers and then arguing with me about something I never even said while I was having an adult conversation with someone else. Go have another drink, good grief.
[eyeroll]
Yes they HAVE a plan. It requires an extremely excessive amount of documentation and once the unions get involved, isn't worth the paper it’s printed on.
There’s a reason that across this country, bad teachers just get moved around and not let go. In no other profession (except union jobs) does this happen.
So, you’re talking about ending someone’s employment and complain about “excessive paperwork”. I’d think documentation would be the least that could be done to terminate one’s career. And, the unions role in representing the employee is only to ensure the policies were followed as written. Again, if someone is being dismissed, the policies should be followed.
What you’re arguing for (with no tenure) is the at-will ability to dismiss with or without cause.
It’s a forum dude. I’d suggest if you don’t want others commenting, you might try PM, text, or email. You do realize that a forum lets others see what you’ve written and make comments, right?
What I actually said was that tenure has to be reformed and 5 year contracts would be a better way to ensure that people don’t abuse tenure. Coupled with high pay, expectations could be raised.
And I don’t mind to restate that it’s practically impossible to get rid of bad teachers once tenured
Tax dollars already support religious schools, at least indirectly; school bus transportation, school lunch programs, support services like speech therapy and counseling services, etc.
All children deserve a quality education, and if the local public school is failing, parents should have the right to send their children to another school of their choosing, be it public or private.
Pay more.
Improve retirement.
Better funding for their specific classroom needs.
.....and REQUIRE them to actually TEACH and leave their liberal woke BS at home.
Improve retirement.
Better funding for their specific classroom needs.
.....and REQUIRE them to actually TEACH and leave their liberal woke BS at home.
A thread about teachers and here comes people swooping in to tell us all how great tachers have it and they should appreciate the low pay, high expectations and constant grief from parents, admin and kids. Thanks guys we forgot all of that from the last time you said it and the time before and the time before and..... 
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Based on what? Just your opinion? What's the prohibition on it? Separation of church & state doesn't prohibit states from giving vouchers to parents - parents are not a religion - for them to do with as they want for their kids.
There is no significant benefit of being a teacher anymore. The pay sucks, the government usually always underfunds your needs in terms of materials, overall student behavior has become horrendous, you're overworked, some parents basically want you to raise their kid yourself, all of this on top of some kind of social war that makes people believe that teachers are out to indoctrinate their kids into some kind of identity crisis where we're banning books and making it illegal to acknowledge that gay people exist. No wonder teachers are leaving in mass.
Tax dollars always come with strings attached. If we want government to help fund religious schools with taxpayer dollars, then we need to allow government to control the curriculum. If we’re all on board with religious schools having to teach evolution, the Big Bang Theory and birth control as opposed to creation and abstinence, then, sure, have at it.
By the same token, we could also require the public schools to teach creation and abstinence then. Correct?
Again, governments wouldn't be funding religious schools. Parents would. As long as kids pass state test requirements, why the F does it matter? Government control of curriculum is part of why we have the schools' mess we have today.
BTW, Feds fund religion affiliated hospitals that hang their religion's symbols all over the place in them.
I'm all for vouchers. Low income families are forced to send their kids to the failing "government controlled" public schools. Gov control is the problem, comrades. They f**k up everything they touch.
The religious schools in my area are highly rated, academically demanding, and produce better educated students than the public schools. But they are expensive.
My daughter is investigating sending her kids to one of the local religious schools. A lot of higher income families send their kids there and only 20% follow the religion of the school. No big deal.
Years ago, we took my daughter out of public school for 2 1/2 years. She wasn't learning anything. It was a **** show. We used Abeka (Christian) materials to teach her. It was a demanding and solid academic curriculum. Maybe the best, at the time at least.
She went back to public for high school and tested high enough to skip 2 grades. She skipped one and graduated with honors receiving a full ride college scholarship.
Some people are hung up on religion, yet ignore the government sanctioned "progressive" religion they are pushing in public schools which has zero redeeming qualities. It's a cancer on society, imo.
Parents who care should have a choice for their children's education and not be controlled by the "free" government education monopoly.
The religious schools in my area are highly rated, academically demanding, and produce better educated students than the public schools. But they are expensive.
My daughter is investigating sending her kids to one of the local religious schools. A lot of higher income families send their kids there and only 20% follow the religion of the school. No big deal.
Years ago, we took my daughter out of public school for 2 1/2 years. She wasn't learning anything. It was a **** show. We used Abeka (Christian) materials to teach her. It was a demanding and solid academic curriculum. Maybe the best, at the time at least.
She went back to public for high school and tested high enough to skip 2 grades. She skipped one and graduated with honors receiving a full ride college scholarship.
Some people are hung up on religion, yet ignore the government sanctioned "progressive" religion they are pushing in public schools which has zero redeeming qualities. It's a cancer on society, imo.
Parents who care should have a choice for their children's education and not be controlled by the "free" government education monopoly.
It matters because US students are pretty much middle of the pack amongst industrial nations in math and science. That’s what publicly funded schools should focus on. Not ancient mythologies and dark ages beliefs. If parents want their child to learn that stuff they can continue to go cash out of pocket.
-I hear ya but we've been falling behind in those areas since the late 70's (not a coincidence that the Fed dept of ed was founded at that time)...nothing to do with religion.
It’s weird what economic laws the the Paddock regards and the ones they disregard.
Won’t elasticity come into play with a voucher system?
A parent is already willing to pay 15K to send their kid to Trinity but now they get a government voucher for 8K. Why wouldn’t Trinity just raise tuition from 15K to 23K?
One of the purposes of the tuition is to create a barrier to entry that keeps out the students that won’t really be your bread and butter.
Won’t elasticity come into play with a voucher system?
A parent is already willing to pay 15K to send their kid to Trinity but now they get a government voucher for 8K. Why wouldn’t Trinity just raise tuition from 15K to 23K?
One of the purposes of the tuition is to create a barrier to entry that keeps out the students that won’t really be your bread and butter.
I think it's more that we rank near the bottom on education for 60 years and any time a change is offered the instant reply is "pay teachers more, teachers don't make enough". Teachers at private schools seem to do OK and don't have to worry about bad parents or students because the school actually has standards.A thread about teachers and here comes people swooping in to tell us all how great tachers have it and they should appreciate the low pay, high expectations and constant grief from parents, admin and kids. Thanks guys we forgot all of that from the last time you said it and the time before and the time before and.....
Were does government money come from? Why does government get to decide strings with my money?
A large portion of it comes out of my and your paychecks.
You’ll need to ask your elected officials why it comes with strings. I’m just pointing out that it does.
This is a good point. If vouchers ever come in to play, the teachers at Trinity, etc, will start making money on the same levels as public school teachers, which they don't now.
Some schools will raise their price. That's a supply and demand issue. BUT....because there would be a much bigger supply of people who can now pay for their kid to go to another school, you would see more such schools opening up. You would just need to ensure some basic standards are met by the schools. But this would not be that helpful to more rural communities that don't have a large enough population to attract a non-public school.
I'm talking funding parents instead of schools. And if the schools the parents choose use ancient mythologies to get kids attending them to pass state tests, I'm fine with that. Clearly public schools not using those mythologies aren't focusing on math & science. BTW, those mythologies include strong discipline.
As I said earlier, you could limit the total charges to parents who use vouchers. E.g., if voucher is say $7K, you could limit extra charges to parents to say $3K more. Your school wouldn't be forced to take vouchers and thus the $10K total limit. Let Trinity charge $15K but then not get vouchers.
-if vouchers were to become reality, existing private schools couldn't service the demand...new schools/more options = greater competition.
-I'm a public school guy, both of my kids did or are doing well in public...I/my wife have the means/knowledge to navigate the system and supplement/bolster education as needed. Many don't. Our district is/was fine, that said if I had an elementary aged kid *now* I would go the private route. 100%.
-the amount of public money per student spent in KY and nationwide for that matter is more than adequate /on par with other 1st world countries. There is no need for more money.
^one can argue how that money is spent in the US is "broken"...but that's a different topic.
-I'm a public school guy, both of my kids did or are doing well in public...I/my wife have the means/knowledge to navigate the system and supplement/bolster education as needed. Many don't. Our district is/was fine, that said if I had an elementary aged kid *now* I would go the private route. 100%.
-the amount of public money per student spent in KY and nationwide for that matter is more than adequate /on par with other 1st world countries. There is no need for more money.
^one can argue how that money is spent in the US is "broken"...but that's a different topic.
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No sh**. I mean they seriously work 7 months out of the year. And now with the NTI, only the teachers get snow days, the kids and parents do the homework. After the Covid shutdown I honestly lost a lot of respect for the position. I think they’re fairly compensated with tons of benefits.
It's all political theater. Talk to any actual teacher and you'll learn quality of life, not even pay, is the reason they're leaving the profession in droves.
They spend so much time doing nonsense paperwork for overpaid and unnecessary administrators and consultants while having legit zero control over the discipline issues in the classroom. The few kids that actually want to learn can't, because of the insane disruptions that are continually coddled. Plus the leaders let this devolve into an actual, legitimate safety issue.
There are still some really good people left in the profession but they're exiting fast. Unless common sense returns to leadership at the state and union level; this isn't going to change any time soon. None of the 6 points addresses any of these issues.
They spend so much time doing nonsense paperwork for overpaid and unnecessary administrators and consultants while having legit zero control over the discipline issues in the classroom. The few kids that actually want to learn can't, because of the insane disruptions that are continually coddled. Plus the leaders let this devolve into an actual, legitimate safety issue.
There are still some really good people left in the profession but they're exiting fast. Unless common sense returns to leadership at the state and union level; this isn't going to change any time soon. None of the 6 points addresses any of these issues.