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80,000 in Lambeau Tonight

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CAT Scratch FVR

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There is big interest here but the bigger interest here is for EPL/Serie A and all the other Euro leagues than there is for MLS. So, to a degree, it's already here and growing. Will that interest apply to MLS, probably not unless the talent improves. While the product is up, they have continued to add European has-beens, rarely anyone in the prime of their career.

I believe weekend EPL tv ratings are similar to Sunday NHL hockey but less than PGA ratings. But, the MLS ratings are dismal and have the benefit of prime time.

Even with all of the advantages MLS has such as broadcasting games in primetime, being featured on over-the-air television and cherrypicking the teams that will play in these games, Major League Soccer is still unable to crack the 500,000 viewership milestone for the vast majority of its regular season games on English-language television.
 
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Tskware

Heisman
Jan 26, 2003
24,925
21,283
113
I really appreciate how athletic the players are, and the passion of fans world wide is always fun to see at the WC, for example.

But . . . the lack of offense just kills the interest in the average US fan, we just have so many other sports where they score regularly, even most baseball games and hockey matches are Air Raid type shootouts compared to most any top level soccer match, where even 2-1 is the exception rather than the rule.

Until the style of play changes in soccer, I just don't see the boom in spectators and TV ratings ever materializing.
 
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Beatle Bum

Heisman
Sep 1, 2002
39,293
58,120
113
LineSkiCat14 said:
Sheeit.. been hearing this from Soccer fans for 30 years now.

My one little brother plays soccer, but he also plays Hockey and Lax, and I think he's about to stick with lacrosse. My other little brother is now exclusively playing baseball, gave up Soccer at age 7. And my family is from a VERY big soccer town in NY (along with those other sports as well).

We shall see... If we want to talk about growing sports, basketball is on fire in many other continents... and sports like Lacrosse are picking up steam.
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My grandfather was saying that back in the 80s.
 
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CAT Scratch FVR

All-Conference
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5,744
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They went to see quality teams play. Whether you like the sport or not, it is growing in popularity. And again, the world game is more popular than MLS. If the market is flooded with games of this variety will there still be that demand? I don't know. But right now, it's like deciding between watching an NBA game or a WNBA game, in most cases.
 
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Hank Camacho_rivals115797

Heisman
Aug 10, 2021
6,263
17,745
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Tskware said:
I really appreciate how athletic the players are, and the passion of fans world wide is always fun to see at the WC, for example.

But . . . the lack of offense just kills the interest in the average US fan, we just have so many other sports where they score regularly, even most baseball games and hockey matches are Air Raid type shootouts compared to most any top level soccer match, where even 2-1 is the exception rather than the rule.

Until the style of play changes in soccer, I just don't see the boom in spectators and TV ratings ever materializing.
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Unless it is a World Cup or Olympic match involving the US, I watch soccer like I do golf or baseball. It is a soothing thing to have on in the background during the summer but I'm not really paying attention and I don't care about the result.

Baseball is the GOAT for summer background viewing. I need to get back into that, come to think about it. Is there anyway to watch MLB without commercials? That would be peak sleeping, imo. I can't do it because there will inevitably be some local car lot advertisement that is 125 decibels louder than the broadcast, though.
 
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gamecockcat

Heisman
Oct 29, 2004
10,524
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Tskware said:
I really appreciate how athletic the players are, and the passion of fans world wide is always fun to see at the WC, for example.

But . . . the lack of offense just kills the interest in the average US fan, we just have so many other sports where they score regularly, even most baseball games and hockey matches are Air Raid type shootouts compared to most any top level soccer match, where even 2-1 is the exception rather than the rule.

Until the style of play changes in soccer, I just don't see the boom in spectators and TV ratings ever materializing.
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Agree^.

I wonder if they formed an indoor soccer league (I know they had one sometime in the past) and if the game was more like hockey, i.e., a lot of shots on goal, smaller field, etc., there would be an uptick in fan attendance and TV viewership? I understand the traditionalists will balk at making 'their' game more Americanized, but a soccer game with 20+ shots on goal by each team would be infinitely more interesting to me vs. what the sport produces now.

I've always thought it was unusual that, as the quality of the players increases, the amount of action/scoring seemingly tends to decrease. It always seems to me that there are too many WC matches that end 1-0 (or maybe 2-0) with <10 shots in 90+ minutes.
 
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tWildcat

Heisman
Mar 12, 2011
9,301
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0
I’ll watch the US when they make the World Cup but that’s about all I can do, I just can’t get into it. Just so boring to watch but nothing against it, I know it’s popular around the globe.
 
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UnfrozenCatfanLawyer

Heisman
Mar 25, 2004
14,660
62,013
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My oldest kid's high school soccer team had over 100 kids try out. The football team would kill for those numbers. I think this is a trend that will only become more noticeable over time.
 
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Tskware

Heisman
Jan 26, 2003
24,925
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113
UnfrozenCatfanLawyer said:
My oldest kid's high school soccer team had over 100 kids try out. The football team would kill for those numbers. I think this is a trend that will only become more noticeable over time.
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Agree to an extent, but youth participation and adult fan interest and TV ratings are two different things. Hundreds of thousands of girls play softball, but the popularity of that sport is minimal, is there even a pro league?
 
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UnfrozenCatfanLawyer

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If you don’t think soccer is growing in popularity when 80k show up in freaking Green Bay for an exhibition game, you’ll see it for sure when the US hosts the World Cup on 4 years. That will be when the floodgates truly open.

I think the difference between the old days when people said “soccer is coming!” and now is that fans here now have easy viewing access to the best teams/leagues in the world every week. Plus - in our ADHD addled society - you get constant movement and no commercials for 2 hours. Baseball can’t say that and football sure can’t. There’s a lot of dead time and that equals time to change the channel/stream.
 
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UnfrozenCatfanLawyer

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I’m going to assume most of the naysayers in this thread are 55+. Times change. I’m sure there were plenty of folks back in the 40s and 50s who thought baseball, boxing and horse racing would own American hearts forever. Well …
 
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ryanbruner

ryanbruner

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Sep 10, 2017
12,978
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Freetaxreturn said:
I’ve never seen or watched a soccer game in my life 🍺
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I watch the world cup. Thats about it. The issue with soccer unlike other sports is that from an early age we are taught the rules of football, basketball, and baseball. That doesn't really happen with soccer unless you seek it out.
 
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It'saDoneDeal

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UnfrozenCatfanLawyer said:
I’m going to assume most of the naysayers in this thread are 55+. Times change. I’m sure there were plenty of folks back in the 40s and 50s who thought baseball, boxing and horse racing would own American hearts forever. Well …
Click to expand...

In my extensive studies, I've found the average age of a Paddock poster is 62 with an average IQ of 91. The average IQ drops to 82 for any poster who actively posts in the Political Thread.
 
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gamecockcat

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Oct 29, 2004
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UnfrozenCatfanLawyer said:
I’m going to assume most of the naysayers in this thread are 55+. Times change. I’m sure there were plenty of folks back in the 40s and 50s who thought baseball, boxing and horse racing would own American hearts forever. Well …
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Anecdotally, my son is 30, played soccer for a few years growing up, has lived about 1 mile from Charlotte's soccer stadium and now lives in Boston within 30 minutes of the Boston MLS club stadium (Gillette) and NEVER watches, attends or so much as looks at scores for MLS or WC soccer. He might be an outlier but he's told me several times than none of his friends follow soccer, either, even though many of them played in HS. Many of them, though, do participate in fantasy football leagues and follow the NFL avidly.

Yes, it's more popular now in the US than it's been. But, as far as viewership and money and media coverage (other than the WC), soccer is about 5th or 6th in line (NFL, NBA, CFB, MCBB, WCBB, MLB, NHL, major golf tournaments, major tennis tournaments (?), Olympics, etc. are almost always ahead of MLS and Premier League news) at best. I mean Pele made a huge splash almost 50 years ago and soccer was really going to take off in the US. And, it's been slow growth with waxing and waning in the interim. It will always have its followers but so many other sports have a huge lead on soccer in the US, it's hard to imagine it becoming #1 here (or even #3 or #4, honestly).
 
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UnfrozenCatfanLawyer

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All fair points (fwiw, I don’t watch much MLS, either - I think most soccer fans are fans of European teams/leagues/players).

And I don’t think soccer will ever get to #1 in America in my lifetime. But 3rd or 4th? That’s possible. Baseball is dying a slow, self-inflicted death. Hell, e-gaming might reach the top 4 within my lifetime.
 
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Tskware

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Jan 26, 2003
24,925
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UnfrozenCatfanLawyer said:
All fair points (fwiw, I don’t watch much MLS, either - I think most soccer fans are fans of European teams/leagues/players).

And I don’t think soccer will ever get to #1 in America in my lifetime. But 3rd or 4th? That’s possible. Baseball is dying a slow, self-inflicted death. Hell, e-gaming might reach the top 4 within my lifetime.
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Baseball knows it has problems, I think you will see a pitch clock and limits on defensive shifts imposed next season, 3 1/2 hour games have got to become abnormal again, 2 1/2 hours would be ideal. It would also help if style of play would change so most games are not just Ks, BBs, and the occasional HR with the ball only occasionally in play.
 
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CatsFanGG24

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Dec 22, 2003
22,267
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Soccer hype stays with the soccer people. This has been said for 30 years...and baseball has been dying for 30 years, they say.

The Dodgers have averaged 48k over 47 home games this year. The Cardinals have avg 39k in 49 games. These are regular season, run of the mill games.

If the Dodgers matched up against the Yankees overseas, would we not expect a crazy crowd? Silly.

I will say that the soccer fans seem to feel more important to the game, more social...feel like they are a part of something. Guess that is cool.

Unless MLS gets popular, things in the US will remain. ESPN MLS viewership was about 300k. CWS was 1M; MLB was 1.7M.
 
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CatsFanGG24

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Dec 22, 2003
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UnfrozenCatfanLawyer said:
Attendance is down this year for 23 of 30 MLB teams. Just saying.

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Attendance is up from last year and rising. But yes, when compared to the pre-pandemic world, it isn't quite back yet.

MLS attendance is also down from 2019 numbers - but getting closer to normal.

2022 MLS has had 6.125M attendees, 2022 MLB has had 37.638M attendees.

MLS avg 2018 - 24,294; 2019 - 21,873; 2022 - 21,416
 
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Tskware

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UnfrozenCatfanLawyer

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Mar 25, 2004
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Bringing up MLS misses the point. I’m willing to bet most soccer fans in this country - myself included - don’t pay a ton of attention to the domestic league. They follow the English and Spanish leagues - because those are the best ones. The Mexican league is arguably more popular here than MLS. Even still, attendance is good and the league keeps expanding.
 
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vhcat70

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Feb 5, 2003
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CAT Scratch FVR said:
They went to see quality teams play. Whether you like the sport or not, it is growing in popularity. And again, the world game is more popular than MLS. If the market is flooded with games of this variety will there still be that demand? I don't know. But right now, it's like deciding between watching an NBA game or a WNBA game, in most cases.
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MLS is keeping costs; i.e., salaries, down for the time being as they expand franchises. Let them get in a few more cities as planned (28 now, STL & Vegas next year), and I think TV viewing & thus salaries will pick up. Right now, top Euro teams pay as much as $50M/player - numbers like top USA sports - whereas MLS has a salary cap of around $22M/team with a 1 or 2 players exception each. Clearly not in ballpark for quality - yet. Hell, Chelsea club just sold for $3.2B.
 
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vhcat70

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Feb 5, 2003
57,418
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Tskware said:
I really appreciate how athletic the players are, and the passion of fans world wide is always fun to see at the WC, for example.

But . . . the lack of offense just kills the interest in the average US fan, we just have so many other sports where they score regularly, even most baseball games and hockey matches are Air Raid type shootouts compared to most any top level soccer match, where even 2-1 is the exception rather than the rule.

Until the style of play changes in soccer, I just don't see the boom in spectators and TV ratings ever materializing.
Click to expand...
There's a good reason why it's so hard to score & thus keeping scores down: To give the underdogs even a low chance of winning. Make the winning score 10 average instead of 2 average & what you'll often get is 10-1 instead of 2-0/1-1. There won't be many 10-9's. Net, the low scores keep the dogs in the game.
 
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vhcat70

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
38,482
0
ryanbruner said:
I watch the world cup. Thats about it. The issue with soccer unlike other sports is that from an early age we are taught the rules of football, basketball, and baseball. That doesn't really happen with soccer unless you seek it out.
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You don't think kids playing soccer from age 5 aren't taught the rules/techniques/strategies? Lots of kids been playing since the 70's. Net, lots of generally knowledgeable people under age 55.
 
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vhcat70

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
38,482
0
UnfrozenCatfanLawyer said:
Bringing up MLS misses the point. I’m willing to bet most soccer fans in this country - myself included - don’t pay a ton of attention to the domestic league. They follow the English and Spanish leagues - because those are the best ones. The Mexican league is arguably more popular here than MLS. Even still, attendance is good and the league keeps expanding.
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At age 74, I follow FCC closer than anything than UK football. I record about 4-5 EPL matches each week & ff thru most of the play to key moments or unless the teams have high interest to me. I've been a Newcastle fan since 90's & the days of Alan Shearer and now keep eyes on Pulisic & McKennie. If the sport bores people, no idea why they watch the WC. Those teams aren't as good as top Euro league clubs because the talent is more spread out. Now US is way better than MLS teams since MLS not that good.
 
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Tskware

Heisman
Jan 26, 2003
24,925
21,283
113
vhcat70 said:
Agree. Deaden the ball and/or move the walls back.
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Or teach the young players how to bunt and hit to the opposite field. I have heard it said that the modern pitchers throw it harder with more spin than 30 or 40 years ago, which makes "small ball" a lot harder, but athletes adjust in every other sport, don't know why they can't at the MLB level.

What you need is a team of really fast 5'10" players who can run, bunt, field, steal bases and hit to the opposite field like crazy, maybe they would run rings around some of theses "homer or bust" lineups, I for one would love it.
 
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vhcat70

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Feb 5, 2003
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Tskware said:
Or teach the young players how to bunt and hit to the opposite field. I have heard it said that the modern pitchers throw it harder with more spin than 30 or 40 years ago, which makes "small ball" a lot harder, but athletes adjust in every other sport, don't know why they can't at the MLB level.

What you need is a team of really fast 5'10" players who can run, bunt, field, steal bases and hit to the opposite field like crazy, maybe they would run rings around some of theses "homer or bust" lineups, I for one would love it.
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Not gonna happen when runs payoff for a HR is so high vs. small ball. A deadened ball can't be throw quite as hard & is easier to bunt. Agree it's a better game. I.e., it's more like softball.
 
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Tskware

Heisman
Jan 26, 2003
24,925
21,283
113
vhcat70 said:
Not gonna happen when runs payoff for a HR is so high vs. small ball. A deadened ball can't be throw quite as hard & is easier to bunt. Agree it's a better game. I.e., it's more like softball.
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It would take a small market team or three that is getting their *** kicked annually trying to play the same way as the Yankees, what have they got to lose? Kansas City won the WS and almost won another 6 or 8 years ago with the kind of team I would love to see take the field regularly.
 
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