A look back at recruiting...

[InaccuratePredictionsDawg]

I was wondering how many 5 star players MSU has signed over the last decade.

(Note: I used rivals.com data base therefore this is rivals stars. I know it will differ from scout.com stars, but rivals is easier to navigate on my crappy computer).

Back in the day, we were landing 5 star studs in pairs.

Then there was suddenly a decade long drought.

5 star recruits MSU has landed since 2002 (according to rivals.com):

Darren Williams = 5 star of 2002 class
Jerious Norwood = 5 star of 2002 class

Quinton Culberson = 5 star of 2003 class
Deljuan Robinson = 5 star of 2003 class

2004 class = No 5 stars.
2 stars = Titus Brown, De'Mon Glanton
Only 1 4 star = Rory Johnson

2005 class = no 5 stars (Derek Pegues was 4 star).

2006 class = no 5 stars (Anthony Dixon was a 4 star.
So was somebody called Chasman Daivs).

2007 class = no 5 stars (Derek Sherrod was a 4 star.
The rest of the 4 stars (Co-Eric Reily, Robert Elliot etc.) were busts.
The 3 stars made this class = K.J. Wright, etc.

2008 class = no 5 stars (Charles Mitchell as a 4 star.
Phillip Freeman and Templeton Hardy were 4 stars).

2009 = no 5 stars (but several good 4 stars. Bumphis, Russell, Boyd, Cox, etc.
Jon Banks was a 3 star).

2010 = No 5 stars. (Perhaps best of that class was 3 star Vick Ballard).

2011= no 5 stars (Nothing but 3 stars. Only 4 star = P.J. Jones)

2012 = No 5 stars (Quay Evans is a 4 star).

I didn't do the 2013 class because nobody has signed. So I don't know if rivals.com has anybody in the 2013 class as a 5 star recruit. You start shifting through the data & you notice a truckload of busts, dozens of shoddy talent evaluations & "program changers" who amounted to a hill of beans. After looking through this mess, I have no idea how this program has been to 4 bowls since 2007.​

 

[shotgunDawg]

You can't use Rivals to do this research project. It simply isn't credible when it comes to MSU recruiting. While 247 is very good now, Scout is probably your best bet on this issue. They have been better longer.

 

[jacksonreb]

seriously? i've followed scout and yancy for years and still do but nobody in the universe that doesn't work for scout thinks they are more credible than rivals.

 

[InaccuratePredictionsDawg]

Seemed credible to me...

...I don't know anything about 24/7 or whatever, but for the most part, rivals seemed to have given the most coveted hotshots the most stars. Having said that, forget the stars for a moment: You look at those signee lists over the last 10 years & it's depressing. Very little true talent amongst an ocean of never has beens & never weres. That was my primary takeaway.

 

[Bulldog from Birth]

Chasman David was an interesting one. He was a high end prospect who mcgahee'd his knee in a high school all star game. Crooms was the only big time program who kept his scholarship offer on the table after that.

 

[kired]

Rivals & Scout are almost identical when it comes to our star ratings. A few small difference over the last 6-7 years. Here are the ones that I noticed with a quick look (these are guys who actually enrolled and played or are playing). I'm sure I missed a few, and did not look at last two years because we don't know enough to judge those guys yet. I grouped by which servie I think was correct.

Rivals, scout player (which service I think got it right)

4, 5 Derek Pegues (push - could see an argument for both)
3, 2 Jameon Lewis (to be determined... rivals if he ever breaks out)
3, 2 Quentin Saulsberry (rivals)
2, 4 Josh Riddell (rivals)
2, 3 Jamie Jones (rivals)
2, 3 Devin Jones (rivals)
3, 4 Maurice Langston (rivals)
3, 2 Malcolm Johnson (rivals)
3, 4 Matt Wells (rivals at this point)
2, 3 Arceto Clark (scout)
2, 3 Dominic Douglas (scout)
2, 3 JC Brignone (scout)
4, 3 Phillip Freeman (scout)
3, 4 Chris White (scout)
4, 3 Chris Smith (scout)
3, 2 Eric Lawson (scout)
3, 2 Corvell Harrison Gay (scout)
4, 3 Robert Johnson (scout at this point)

 

[dogeatdog]

I know Nick Turner was a 5 star. Not sure of the year though but he was

a 5 star.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

They've been going downhill since Yahoo bought them. At least that's the story I've been told. I have no clue. It's all based on size of the subscription base though.

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

And lest we forget Marvin Byrdsong.

 

[NCDawg.sixpack]

Phillip Freeman and Templeton Hardy-4 stars? Probably not too accurate ratings.

 

[MedDawg]

We had 2 last year...

I haven't trusted rivals for many years. I like 247 now, but last year we had two scout.com 5-star signees, Denico Autry and Quay Evans. Going back to 2002 per scout, Pegues in 2005 and Darren Williams and Keith Andrews in 2002 were our only other 5-stars.

 

[HailState39110]

a couple of more 5 stars

And lest we forget Marvin Byrdsong.

no one has mentioned is Darren Williams out of Clarksdale and Jerious Norwood out of Clinton . Both 5* . Williams was shot and kille din Atlanta one or two years after he graduated

 

[dogeatdog]

Uh, did you read the original post? Both were mentioned in 2002.

nt

 

[klong-dog]

I thought they were the first ones listed on the in the OP's message.

 

[LawDawg97]

And Jerious Norwood was from Brandon not Clinton. But who's counting

nm

 

[thatsbaseball]

Wasn`t Donovan Davis a 5 star ? He was a hell of a success story.

 

[DirtyDog]

My take away is that Dan and the boys are recruiting a little better than the past with the potential to be alot better. Stars may not count for much, but they are one indicator of talent. We aren't going to pull alot of 5 stars but if we bump up the umber of 4 stars and shift our 3 stars to the high 3s we are getting this year, then the talent level is definitely up. You can't account for heart or motivation though so its up to the staff to do something with what they haul in. Look at itway, the NFL with all its money and evaluations, as well as 3-4 years of collegiate play to observe, still miss alot.

 

[thatsbaseball]

4 star.......class of 2003

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

The guy that started rivals and made them the best on the business sold rivals to yahoo a few years ago. He had a 2 year non-compete clause. Spent 2 years relaxing, then started 247, which quickly became the best recruiting site, hands down.

Here is one article on him around the time 247 launched, there was another one from last fall I was looking for.

http://benkoo.com/articles/biz-and-tech/ex-rivals-founder-shannon-terry-looking-to-challenge-rivals-scout-and-espn-with-college-recruiting-network-20.html

Here is the one I was thinking of:

http://m.outkickthecoverage.com/college-football-recruitings-22-million-dollar-man.php

 

[DISTRICT DOG]

Chasman Davis was going to be an absolute ANIMAL if he would of stepped on campus. His knee injury was so bad that it was going to take a few years of rehab before he could even get on the field again. I believe he tore it in an All-Star game before he was supposed to get on campus (early signing). If he would not of gotten hurt, he would of been one of the best players at the LB position we would of had.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/nov/13/from-injury-to-a-second-chance/

This is where he is at today...you look at his stats and it is easy to see why so many people were excited about him committing to MSU.

 

[MSU601Dawg]

Rivals & Scout are almost identical when it comes to our star ratings. A few small difference over the last 6-7 years. Here are the ones that I noticed with a quick look (these are guys who actually enrolled and played or are playing). I'm sure I missed a few, and did not look at last two years because we don't know enough to judge those guys yet. I grouped by which servie I think was correct.

Rivals, scout player (which service I think got it right)

4, 5 Derek Pegues (push - could see an argument for both)
3, 2 Jameon Lewis (to be determined... rivals if he ever breaks out)
3, 2 Quentin Saulsberry (rivals)
2, 4 Josh Riddell (rivals)
2, 3 Jamie Jones (rivals)
2, 3 Devin Jones (rivals)
3, 4 Maurice Langston (rivals)
3, 2 Malcolm Johnson (rivals)
3, 4 Matt Wells (rivals at this point)
2, 3 Arceto Clark (scout)
2, 3 Dominic Douglas (scout)
2, 3 JC Brignone (scout)
4, 3 Phillip Freeman (scout)
3, 4 Chris White (scout)
4, 3 Chris Smith (scout)
3, 2 Eric Lawson (scout)
3, 2 Corvell Harrison Gay (scout)
4, 3 Robert Johnson (scout at this point)

This is a good comparison, I'd like to see this with all of our recruits.

Usually fans just think the service that has their player rated the highest is the best, and we are no different. Also, Rivals has the lowest subscriber base of the big 3/4 for MSU, so MSU fans think it is the worst when they've been around the longest and may have the most subscribers overall. And don't think they don't cover, evaluate, and favor the recruits and states where they have the biggest subscriber bases, so that's why MS gets slighted by them a little. Also, they don't let the Yancy's, Steve's, and Paul's influence them much on rankings from what I hear.

Also, these are our biggest OL recruits from a star perspective the last 10 years: Sherrod, Donovan Davis, Templeton Hardy, Calvin Wilson, Damien Robinson, and Phillip Freeman... The star services really nailed those huh??? Still amazing to me how you guys obsess over this

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

I'm waiting for the mathematicians to do with college football recruiting what they've done with baseball scouting. I know someone might say that high school stats can't be compared, but this statement has not been statistically supported. If you can get all the data and tweak the algorithms over the years, you might be able to tease out the 2-star players that end up being your solid 3-4 year starters and which 5-star players aren't even worth the time of the elite teams.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

I'd say Scout got even more right than that. They both missed on Malcolm Johnson, he's a 4 star talent. Others:

Pegues was a 5 star guy, period - Scout wins
Riddell was a 4 star guy, got in Croom's doghouse then got hurt - Scout wins
Matt Wells is a 4 star guy, Scout got that right too

Scout does a good job of indicating talent for sure. Off the field issues really shouldn't go into the rankings IMO. Rank the talent, then have another side ranking for eligibility or something.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

I'm waiting for the mathematicians to do with college football recruiting what they've done with baseball scouting. I know someone might say that high school stats can't be compared, but this statement has not been statistically supported. If you can get all the data and tweak the algorithms over the years, you might be able to tease out the 2-star players that end up being your solid 3-4 year starters and which 5-star players aren't even worth the time of the elite teams.

football is the most "team" sport of all the team sports. baseball is the most "individual" of the team sports. if a guy can hit, he's gonna hit, even if the lineup around his sucks. sure it might hurt his Rs and RBIs, but no legit scout is going to look at Rs and RBIs to determine which guys are worthwhile. if a pitcher is good, he's going to put up good numbers. a scout can watch him pitch and tell when he has good stuff, even if his team is giving up unearned runs and cheap hits (seeing eye ground balls and weak bloopers that better fielders would get to).

however, if a WR in HS plays for a run centric offense, it's hard to tell what he can do. same with a QB. or a LB behind a terrible DL is going to struggle to show how good he is. and competition matters too, an OL can look dominant against guys half his size, but you have to study things like build, footwork, etc. same thing with a QB putting up big numbers.

plus, i think these algorithms you speak of are used to determine which baseball players project the be the best, therefore they are the highest ranked players. and they are still not 100% accurate, there's always going to be a few head jobs that mentally can't handle the college or pro game, and there's always going to be some scrappy lower rated guys who make it, and there's always going to be late bloomers who don't peak physically until later in life and guys who physically peaked at 18. it's just the way it is. recruiting rankings aren't 100% accurate but they are accurate enough to give you a good idea of the teams that will be good moving forward. obviously you need more than 1 class to make you better long term. and the difference between being ranked 12 or 20 in the cruitin rankings is negligible, but there is a big difference between top 20 and being in the 40s. usually there are a handful of teams that separate themselves from the pack at the top of the rankings. some years it's 5, some year it's 10, it just kinda depends, but you can see the ranking drop when it's all said and done. think of it as tiers. teams regularly in the top tier are regularly in the top 10-15, teams regularly in the 2nd tier are regularly in the top 25ish.

 

[MSU601Dawg]

I'd say Scout got even more right than that. They both missed on Malcolm Johnson, he's a 4 star talent. Others:

Pegues was a 5 star guy, period - Scout wins
Riddell was a 4 star guy, got in Croom's doghouse then got hurt - Scout wins
Matt Wells is a 4 star guy, Scout got that right too

Scout does a good job of indicating talent for sure. Off the field issues really shouldn't go into the rankings IMO. Rank the talent, then have another side ranking for eligibility or something.

Yeah... this isn't a biased post at all. When you go back and evaluate whether or not a service got it right or not, you HAVE to judge on their performance, and can't say, "well the coach screwed him up, he would've been awesome!!! Gene said so!!!" Croom wasn't so bad that he kept the guys w/ true talent from shining and ending up in the NFL (Deljuan, Ronald Fields, Antonio Johnson, Kyle Love, Culberson, Norwood, David Stewart, Jamar Chaney, Dixon) Those guys shined in college b/c of their talent and went to the league b/c of their talent.

What in God's name would make you think Riddell was remotely close to a 4-star? You've made some idiotic statements, but that has to be your worst saying someone "got something right" by proclaiming Riddell a 4-star.

Pegues had a 4-star career. If you were to re-evaluate recruiting classes after the fact, ALL 5 stars should get drafted(probably in the 1st 2-3 rounds since they only have around 30 5 stars) or play in the NFL without a doubt. Pegues was all-conference guy, never All-American, and didn't sniff the NFL. That's what a 4-star is.

Matt Wells is an undersized guy that may never be a full-time starter. Malcom Johnson was a 6'1" 200 lb WR out of HS. How you gonna project every down 4-star TE out of that? He's a talented receiver, but will he ever be big enough to be a complete TE? If someone is 6'1" 200 in high school it's hard to project them as anything other than a specialty player, which is what he is to this point...Now if he has Orson Charles type impact the next 2 years then we can say he was a 4-star

 

[kired]

So a 5-star safety isn't good enough to get drafted? Do only 6-star players make it to the NFL?

Josh Riddell went on to throw for 41 TDs for FCS Western Oregon... and 34 INTs. While leading them to a 12-9 record in 2 years. With a 55.8% completion percentage. Is that 4 star material?

Matt Wells isn't even a starter --- how has he lived up to the expectations of a 4 star?

Malcolm Johnson has done in 1.5 years about the same thing Marcus Green did in 2009. Please explain to me why he all the sudden is a 4 star type player?

Now if Wells locks down a starting job the next two years and is a legit NFL prospect, and if Johnson has a 500+ yard, 5+ TD season... I'll agree that both were underrated by Rivals. Until that happens, I say they got it right.

Truth is both services are going to have hits & misses. If people take off the maroon colored glasses, they'll realize that. I don't trust scout because I believe they are influenced by guys like Yancy & Gene. But I also have to question Rivals when they have almost no SEC signees rated below a three star (I noticed this in 2011 - I haven't paid much attention since then).