give mullen a serviceable qb that can be a threat down the field, and watch out. tyson lee is an unbelievable overachiever, so my hat is off to him. todd blackledge gave him his due, and deservedly so. he is just in over his head in this league. i hope sylvester croom sits at home and self reflects on our games weekly, and realizes he should hang it up as a coach. same personnel, ten fold the product. go rams!!!
A quarterback away
- Thread starter ErickaDampier25
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give mullen a serviceable qb that can be a threat down the field, and watch out. tyson lee is an unbelievable overachiever, so my hat is off to him. todd blackledge gave him his due, and deservedly so. he is just in over his head in this league. i hope sylvester croom sits at home and self reflects on our games weekly, and realizes he should hang it up as a coach. same personnel, ten fold the product. go rams!!!
take it up with shaquille oneal about the name..he gets posterzied regularly, and that is fact..but he is one of our greatest athletes of all time, bar none..but what did i say that wasnt factual? we are overachieving with a walk on qb..this is the southeastern @$#%%%% conference..tyson is a hell of a player, just in over his head
to an extent..but our ol and dl didnt cost us them game..lack of a vertical threat cost us the game..my point still remains that the personnel is virtually the same, and getting ten fold the results..1,700,000 that man was getting paid..makes me sick..also, pernell looked like the player he was supposed to be tonight
"lack of a vertical threat cost us the game"
why don't we have a vertical threat? How long does he have to throw it back there? If we don't throw it on the 3rd step, he is getting crushed by D-lineman...go back and look at it when we didnt throw it on a 3-step drop- there is no time.
why don't we have a vertical threat? How long does he have to throw it back there? If we don't throw it on the 3rd step, he is getting crushed by D-lineman...go back and look at it when we didnt throw it on a 3-step drop- there is no time.
i enjoy your conditional optimism these days, but we dont have a vertical threat bc tyson cant see over the gd line of scrimmage..if you replay our "big plays" over in your head, the majority of them come when we purposefully get tyson outside of the pocket..bc thats the only way he can see down the field..john hevesy deserves a pulitzer prize with what he has done with that talent
Do you ever get tired of making excuses for Lee? He's bad, needs a booster seat and makes very bad decisions that have cost us in just about every game. You can pretty much bank on him scoring at least 12 for the other team in every game.Coach34 said:
Why does he deserve a Pulitzer? Has he been writing stories about Lee? You do realize that the Pulitzer is a journalism award, don't you?
pulitzer prize is for?? i thought it was for outstanding lifetime offensive line coaching..no ****, my point was that he deserves much praise for what he was done with that o line..i didnt mean to insult your intelligence
The quarterback is only good if he can deliver the vertical ball regadless of line play.
That there is some special knowledge.
That there is some special knowledge.
Lee is overachieving for a walk on in the SEC but at the end of the day you can only coach up a 5.9 QB with the heart of Rudy so far. Don't get me wrong Lee had a great game against MTSU but that was MTSU a team we should be every time. I like the guy but he can't see over the line. Bumphis's statement a couple of weeks ago proved this and is that is reason he can't throw the deep route because he can't see both the WR and the FS. Plus their is no doubt that the ball being tipped at the line and intercepted at the line is because of his height or lack there of. Hopefully next year we have both Newton and Russel because we need all the help we can get.
"drunker that ballsack dawg"..question to you..do you think tim tebow would struggle more with our offensive line, or would tyson lee struggle more with fla's offensive line? i am going to go out on a limb and say that our o line performance, or lackthereof, would matter little with someone of tebows skill level..can we agree on that?
Lee is not statistically at the bottom of the SEC. You're pretty much making stuff up. Coach 34's analysis is spot on. The o line and the wr's have a lot to do with the issue (vertical threat) that you cite. Yet you just brush it off. Lee is short, and that hurt's his quality, but his speed, strength, and playmaking are on par with other SEC qb's. Don't take my word for it. Check the stats.
And we are way more than a qb away. We are playing well in many ways, but we are not finishing drives and we are not winning. We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory vs. LSU, and many blame Lee but I prefer to spread the blame throughout the team and the coaching staff.
The focus is on turnovers, but Lee's turnover stats are near the average for SEC qb's. We have a chance to win every game, but we've let four winnable games get away, and it doesn't bode well for our season. Three wins is not enough.
And we are way more than a qb away. We are playing well in many ways, but we are not finishing drives and we are not winning. We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory vs. LSU, and many blame Lee but I prefer to spread the blame throughout the team and the coaching staff.
The focus is on turnovers, but Lee's turnover stats are near the average for SEC qb's. We have a chance to win every game, but we've let four winnable games get away, and it doesn't bode well for our season. Three wins is not enough.
to an extent, but lees stats are very deceiving..he is solid and very serviceable, but he hurts us in that we are very predictable on offense..we are never going to challenge our opponents secondary..ever..bc he cant..i will give him his due, he is a hell of a player for what he is--a walk on-playing in the strongest conference in america..if you give us a ryan mallet type qb (middle of the sec type qb), our receivers and ol look much better
When is the last time Lee completed a medium or deep route over the middle? Besides the one that was completed to Bumphis on accident?TX Mud Dawg said:
Tonight a few times I saw receivers open down the middle. But Lee just can't see them. All of his passes are outside or short ones over the middle.
about our o-line and our WR's, but we also don't have a vertical game because of Lee's lack of an arm. He can't get the ball down there.
How much better would a guy like O'Neal Wilder be if we had a QB that could throw it downfield where he didn't have to go back to try to get the ball? All he would have to do is use his speed, run under the ball and then catch it (easier said than done for him)
Heck, how much better would Marcus Green be if Lee could get him the ball downfield? That would also make Bumphis more effective on things like screens.
How much better would a guy like O'Neal Wilder be if we had a QB that could throw it downfield where he didn't have to go back to try to get the ball? All he would have to do is use his speed, run under the ball and then catch it (easier said than done for him)
Heck, how much better would Marcus Green be if Lee could get him the ball downfield? That would also make Bumphis more effective on things like screens.
...let's count the special teams blunders tonight:
- kickoff after the first INT return...the players huddle on the sideline for too long, the play clock runs down, and Mullen has to call timeout
- late in the game, the same thing almost happens aGAIN, but we get out in time to kick it, only to have nine players on the field
- we get an offsides call on a kickoff
- we give up a punt block
Also, Hutchins isn't setting the world on fire, and Depasquale's kickoffs suck. We need to get this stuff fixed.
- kickoff after the first INT return...the players huddle on the sideline for too long, the play clock runs down, and Mullen has to call timeout
- late in the game, the same thing almost happens aGAIN, but we get out in time to kick it, only to have nine players on the field
- we get an offsides call on a kickoff
- we give up a punt block
Also, Hutchins isn't setting the world on fire, and Depasquale's kickoffs suck. We need to get this stuff fixed.
First let me say that it isn't Lee's fault. He isn't the coach that failed to sign a decent SEC caliber QB. He give it everything he has, plays with a ton of guts, and has maximized his talent. I can't say enough about him in those respects. He's done everything he can do, he's just not talented enough to do better.
What you'll find out is this: Lee absolutely kills us every single game. I'll put aside the turnovers, although those turnovers typically end up being the difference in the score. Let's just focus on missed opportunities. I cannot count how many times tonight we had open receivers and Lee overthrew, underthrew, threw it behind or too far in front of them, etc. It's really ridiculous. I'm not talking about 40 yards downfield either. Routine throws this guy cannot consistently make. That pass to Ducre on the big gainer was beautiful. For every one of those there is probably 3 or 4 that are missed that shouldn't be missed. I still contend that this guy cannot see in the middle of the field due to the height of the OL and DL, and for proof of that there are times when he just looks like he blindly throws to a spot. Take the pick 6 that was called back. Surely he couldn't see very well, because Florida had our guy smothered with two defenders.
Again, Tyson gets everything he can, he simply isn't talented enough to be a SEC starter. It isn't his fault, it is Croom's fault. But, we cannot win games with this guy at QB. If we don't win next week, odds are we will finish with 3 wins. I can't see us beating Bama, Arky, or OM.
What you'll find out is this: Lee absolutely kills us every single game. I'll put aside the turnovers, although those turnovers typically end up being the difference in the score. Let's just focus on missed opportunities. I cannot count how many times tonight we had open receivers and Lee overthrew, underthrew, threw it behind or too far in front of them, etc. It's really ridiculous. I'm not talking about 40 yards downfield either. Routine throws this guy cannot consistently make. That pass to Ducre on the big gainer was beautiful. For every one of those there is probably 3 or 4 that are missed that shouldn't be missed. I still contend that this guy cannot see in the middle of the field due to the height of the OL and DL, and for proof of that there are times when he just looks like he blindly throws to a spot. Take the pick 6 that was called back. Surely he couldn't see very well, because Florida had our guy smothered with two defenders.
Again, Tyson gets everything he can, he simply isn't talented enough to be a SEC starter. It isn't his fault, it is Croom's fault. But, we cannot win games with this guy at QB. If we don't win next week, odds are we will finish with 3 wins. I can't see us beating Bama, Arky, or OM.
If you care to go to this site, it will show you that Lee is near the very bottom.
He may have a decent completion percentage compared to the rest, but in the bottom line, where it counts, he is definitely near the bottom. He is one of only 2 QB's to throw more INT's than TD's, is tied for last with TD passes with Vandy's awesome QB, and is 11th in QB rating. Nothing here screams average to me. Joe Cox has numbers that scream average, or even Jevan Snead. Both have about the same INT numbers as Lee, but both have double digit TD's to go with them, which makes their rating about 20-30 points higher. Lee has a grand total of 3 TD passes this year.
Ill try to find a stat on total turnovers since these stats dont take fumbles lost into consideration.<a href="http://espn.go.com/ncf/conferences/sortables?stat=pass&sort=rat&season=2&year=2009&confld=8">
</a> http://espn.go.com/ncf/conferences/sortables?stat=pass&sort=rat&season=2&year=2009&confId=8
He may have a decent completion percentage compared to the rest, but in the bottom line, where it counts, he is definitely near the bottom. He is one of only 2 QB's to throw more INT's than TD's, is tied for last with TD passes with Vandy's awesome QB, and is 11th in QB rating. Nothing here screams average to me. Joe Cox has numbers that scream average, or even Jevan Snead. Both have about the same INT numbers as Lee, but both have double digit TD's to go with them, which makes their rating about 20-30 points higher. Lee has a grand total of 3 TD passes this year.
Ill try to find a stat on total turnovers since these stats dont take fumbles lost into consideration.<a href="http://espn.go.com/ncf/conferences/sortables?stat=pass&sort=rat&season=2&year=2009&confld=8">
</a> http://espn.go.com/ncf/conferences/sortables?stat=pass&sort=rat&season=2&year=2009&confId=8
Well stated. Very frustrating watching a guy trying to do all he can do and come up "short". Simply put he doesn't have the talent to play in the SEC. Good kid, heart of a lion and I'm sure he wants to win worse than any of us. Croom put is in a bad spot at QB -BAD. That said, the question is what can the staff do to put Tyson in a better position to limit mistakes?</p>
My thoughts exactly. I think he had an off game on his accuracy. His short and mid range accuracy usually isn't too bad.Stormrider81 said:
I think far & away his greatest liabilities are:
1) having the middle of the field taken away by the height of his offensive linemen. He can't see people open down the middle of the field. If I were the other DC, I'd tell my DB's to give up position on the inside routes to defend the outsides of the field. Imagine throwing a blanket over everything over 15+ yards down the center of the field. Lee won't throw there because he can't see it. This is a huge liability because it subtracts a huge part of the offense, but this won't show up in the stats so it doesn't get much talk.
2) batted passes. He's good for 1-2 INTs per game on batted passes.
I don't want to throw Lee under the bus. I like the guy. As you point out, it's not his fault he's a D-II QB trying to start in the SEC. It's Crooms'. But the fact remains, the guy kills us. The myth of Tyson Lee's accuracy is one of the biggest myths of all time at this point. People are bitching about the OL last night, but they were once aGAIN facing 8 men in the box. FL had absolutely no respect for Lee's arm or ability to throw the ball vertically. So they stacked the box and shut down AD. Oh, and they also had no respect for Lee on the "option," as they always ran to AD and ignored Lee. At some point, we have to make a change. It's not fair to the rest of the team to let one player keep beating you every week. And it's not fair to let Lee continue to go out there and embarrass himself. It's like letting Henig stay in the game to throw 6 INTs aGAINST LSU. It just shouldn't happen. Relf may not be the answer either, but I'll be damned if I don't try someone, anyone else at this point. Hell, burn Stegall's redshirt. It's not like he's a scholarship player anyone. Just make a change and try to win. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over aGAIN and expecting different results. At this point, insanity is continuing to play Lee and expecting to win a close game. Damn, I want to choke Crooms for this mess.
if we wouldn't be better off coming up with some kind of a wildcat offense and letting Bumphis be the QB. Probably not, but it also probably wouldn't be much worse.
It showed how much better Mallet is at seeing safeties and receivers downfield because he is 6'7" compared to a 6'0" QB. It was actually a bigger difference than I thought. Every deep ball Tyson throws seems to get picked by safeties. Part of the problem is he doesn't have the arm for it but another part has to be the fact he can't see downfield especially when he is in the pocket. Tyson pads stats with dump off passes to the flat. When he passes down the field he shows the reason he didn't have a DI schollie offer.
I don't think the timeout was a blunder. There was only like 30-40 seconds left in the half. I figure Mullen wanted to give everyone a little time to calm down, get their emotions in check & not screw up the kickoff.Frances Drebin said:
And DePasquale is a backup kicker for a reason. What's really sad is we have 2 kickers in Mullens first year that are better than Croom could find in 5 years.
What stats is Lee average in? I can't imagine he would start for anyone else in the SEC. Also, go back and think about those 3 TDs. Two of them required great plays by Marcus Green & Bumphis.
People make way too many excuses for him. He's a great guy, hardworker, etc.... but if we had a team full of Tyson Lee's (undersized, under talented players) we'd be worse off than we already are. I have a ton of respect for him and how hard he plays, but that doesn't make him a decent QB.
People make way too many excuses for him. He's a great guy, hardworker, etc.... but if we had a team full of Tyson Lee's (undersized, under talented players) we'd be worse off than we already are. I have a ton of respect for him and how hard he plays, but that doesn't make him a decent QB.
Man, I didnt know how difficult it was to find fumble stats. 8 of the schools listed them on their website, but I couldnt find the numbers on 4 of them, and I dont have all day to look for them. Here are the numbers I could find.
QB-Fumbles-Fumbles lost
Lee-8-3
Todd-5-2
McElroy-4-2
Garcia-3-2
Crompton-3-2
Jefferson-3-1
Cox-2-1
Hartline-1-1
Couldnt find numbers on Snead, Mallet, Tebow, or Smith. All other SEC schools carry the same format of stats on their website but these 4.
8 fumbles! I know he only lost 3 of them, but damn.....thats just bad.
</p>
QB-Fumbles-Fumbles lost
Lee-8-3
Todd-5-2
McElroy-4-2
Garcia-3-2
Crompton-3-2
Jefferson-3-1
Cox-2-1
Hartline-1-1
Couldnt find numbers on Snead, Mallet, Tebow, or Smith. All other SEC schools carry the same format of stats on their website but these 4.
8 fumbles! I know he only lost 3 of them, but damn.....thats just bad.
</p>