Adam Frazier and RBI's...

CadaverDawg

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Another SPS poster and myself were just discussing the baseball lineup and I thought he brought up some interesting points. Where I typically lean towards getting the best bats towards the top of the lineup, he tends to look a lot at the balance of the order, and not having as many weak stretches in the lineup.

He mentioned how Frazier rarely gets RBI opportunities by batting in the lead off, because the bottom of the order is typically guys like Pirtle, Frost, etc.. And I agree that I wish we could find a way to get him more RBI chances throughout the game, since he's only guaranteed to lead off 1 time per game.

He even mentioned what would happen if we threw a guy like Frost in the 2 hole. It sounds crazy, but Frost has gotten on base a lot this season and is great with the **** and can even **** for a hit. That would allow us to put both Henderson AND Bradford near the bottom half of the lineup to balance it out. Putting Henderson at 8 and Bradford at 9 could provide some RBI chances for Frazier late in the game, and you could also sub in a pinch hitter for Frost at any point in the game depending on the situation, since you have so many options at 2B.

Another idea would be to put Britton at 2B and bat him 2nd. It would give him some great pitches to hit being surrounded by Frazier and Renfroe....plus Britton has speed, a little power, and can **** well if needed. Once again, it would allow us to put a more balanced offense out there.

Of course, we both would prefer Detz be our second baseman so we don't have to even hit Frost or Britton, but we're just basing it off of what we've seen to this point.

Frazier
Britton
Renfroe
Rea
Detz
Slauter
Norris
Henderson
Bradford

With the above lineup, it seems more likely for a big inning to happen in any given inning, rather than ONLY when the top of the order is up. Just a random thought though.

If Cohen is willing to play Detz at 2B, then I would like to see this, the more I think about it....

Frazier
Henderson
Renfroe
Rea
Detz
Slauter
Porter
Norris
Bradford

By putting Bradford in the 9 hole, again you add that second lead off guy, and help get Frazier more RBI chances as the game progresses. Plus, with Cohen's tendency to want to sac **** a lot in SEC play, you don't feel nearly as bad about giving up Henderson to move Frazier over, as you would giving up Bradford to move Frazier over.

I am simply just throwing out some random thoughts to see what some of you think on a balanced lineup vs. a top heavy lineup, etc..

for those that like to nit pick, this is just for random discussion...it is not necessarily something I would do, but it did peak my interest to see how much more balanced the lineup could potentially be by taking an 8 or 9 hole hitter and swapping them with CT in the 2 hole to balance things out.

Thoughts?
 
Sep 16, 2012
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Here's my thought...

...when LSU comes to town, it suddenly gets real. I'll reserve judgment until I see how they play against conference opponents. If you are going to tank a weekend series due to acting crazy with the numerous hit batters, numerous errors & lack of overall mental concentration, better you do it against Central Ark. than against LSU.
 

CEO2044

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May 11, 2009
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Actually, those are kind of my thoughts.

I want someone leading off that's going to get on base. I don't care how that is.

Frazier gets a lot of extra base hits. I kinda would rather someone like him being in the 3 hole. Heaven forbid some stats that say otherwise, but that's how I've been feeling this year.
 

CadaverDawg

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Actually, those are kind of my thoughts.

I want someone leading off that's going to get on base. I don't care how that is.

Frazier gets a lot of extra base hits. I kinda would rather someone like him being in the 3 hole. Heaven forbid some stats that say otherwise, but that's how I've been feeling this year.

I appreciate the discussion, and fully respect your opinion. there's no right or wrong anyway. Actually, the buddy I was discussing this with said the same exact thing you did. He said if Bradford was getting on base and taking more pitches, he would almost rather lead him off and put Frazier in the 3 hole. So, I see what you're saying. I personally wouldn't do that, but I could see it possibly work.
 

birdawg

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Aug 13, 2009
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I was just putting my lineup together inspired by a previous post so Ill just put it here since a lot is similar. I noticed mine is more balanced than having the best hitters up front. Here's what i got:

1. Frazier SS
2. Detz 2B
3. Renfroe RF
4. Rea 1B
5. Slaughter C
6. Henderson LF
7. Porter DH
8. Norris 3B
9. Bradford CF
 

CadaverDawg

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I kinda like that lineup.

My only reason for considering a guy like Henderson or Britton/Frost in the 2 would be if Cohen is going to try and **** Frazier into scoring position a lot during SEC play. If he is, then I would rather use a less valuable bat to do the sacrificing, than a guy like Detz or even Bradford. But if he isn't going to sac **** a ton after Frazier gets his hits, I would be okay with Detz in the 2.

Personally, I think Detz will be brought back down to Earth in SEC play (much like everyone else). Not saying he won't still be a good RBI guy, but there is a good possibility that he will have to adjust a little and his average will come down a bit. I still think he is a top 5 lineup guy regardless though.
 

birdawg

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Aug 13, 2009
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I kinda like that lineup.

My only reason for considering a guy like Henderson or Britton/Frost in the 2 would be if Cohen is going to try and **** Frazier into scoring position a lot during SEC play. If he is, then I would rather use a less valuable bat to do the sacrificing, than a guy like Detz or even Bradford. But if he isn't going to sac **** a ton after Frazier gets his hits, I would be okay with Detz in the 2.

Personally, I think Detz will be brought back down to Earth in SEC play (much like everyone else). Not saying he won't still be a good RBI guy, but there is a good possibility that he will have to adjust a little and his average will come down a bit. I still think he is a top 5 lineup guy regardless though.

Agree with everything you said. I wasnt thinking about the **** when I did mine, I was just doing it in my head. If we didnt **** like crazy then I like my lineup.

Detz definitely will be brought down to earth in SEC play for sure. Renfroe is our best hitter
 

CadaverDawg

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http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by

to optimize your lineup over a season, you best hitter pure should hit in the 2nd spot in the lineup, best OBP should hit leadoff, and best power bat should hit 4th. surprisingly, the 3rd spot is less important than you'd think.

That's one article's opinion, yes. But I can find one that says your best pure hitter should bat 3rd. Nothing is completely right or wrong when discussing a batting order, and I really don't want it to turn into another "where should Renfroe bat" thread. I definitely respect your opinion though.

So in your opinion, what would your lineup be? Would it be top heavy, or more balanced? I'd love to see it
 

jeremyrbrown

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Sep 4, 2008
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I was just putting my lineup together inspired by a previous post so Ill just put it here since a lot is similar. I noticed mine is more balanced than having the best hitters up front. Here's what i got:

1. Frazier SS
2. Detz 2B
3. Renfroe RF
4. Rea 1B
5. Slaughter C
6. Henderson LF
7. Porter DH
8. Norris 3B
9. Bradford CF

Too many RH bats in a row.
 

bulldogcountry1

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Jun 4, 2007
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You lost me at "Britton".

Seriously, though, I do like the left/right mix in your second lineup. Having too many lefties in a row can be a disadvantage late, but it does give Cohen an excuse to PH Hann for the hot lefty bat of the day.
 

CadaverDawg

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You lost me at "Britton".

Seriously, though, I do like the left/right mix in your second lineup. Having too many lefties in a row can be a disadvantage late, but it does give Cohen an excuse to PH Hann for the hot lefty bat of the day.

Ha, I'm a Britton fan, and I think he can be a good one. I already like his plate approach, and he has good contact to all fields. Plus he is a plus runner and a good bnuter. He would also be getting a lot better pitches to hit if he was sandwiched between Frazier and Renfroe. He's a guy that can work the pitch count and get on base, but at the same if you needed to sacrifice him, you wouldn't be losing one of your best bats. Just a thought.

Definitely not my lineup of choice, but I can see advantages to it.
 

Railin Jemmye

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Bradford is a prototypical lead-off guy. And just because he's slumping right now doesn't change that in my eyes. I've always wanted to see Bradford 1st and Frazier 2nd. During a time like right now, though, he could be moved to 9th, especially vs. lefties. Frazier could lead off and Henderson bat 2nd.
 

CadaverDawg

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Bradford is a prototypical lead-off guy. And just because he's slumping right now doesn't change that in my eyes. I've always wanted to see Bradford 1st and Frazier 2nd. During a time like right now, though, he could be moved to 9th, especially vs. lefties. Frazier could lead off and Henderson bat 2nd.

100% agree.
 

skb124

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Not saying your wrong, but I have a question. Do y'all think the the R on R matchups are the same as L on L matchups? Playing baseball I've always thought that Lefty hitters had more of a disadvantage against lefty pitchers than right handed batters had against right handed pitchers. Am I totally wrong on that? I've just never felt that it was necessary to bench a righty when a right-hander was on the mound.
 

jeremyrbrown

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About the same disadvantage.

This is the MLB league average splits by handedness, 2002 to 2009,

RHB vs RHP: 44% GB%, 36% FB%, 12% IFFB%, .296 BABIP, 10.3% HR/FB
RHB vs LHP: 42% GB%, 38% FB%, 11% IFFB%, .303 BABIP, 10.5% HR/FB


LHB vs LHP: 46% GB%, 34% FB%, 11% IFFB%, .298 BABIP, 10.4% HR/FB
LHB vs RHP: 44% GB%, 35% FB%, 9% IFFB%, .306 BABIP, 10.9% HR/FB
 

State82

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You know, I kind of like either of those lineups. I do think he needs to move C.T. for now. He'll be fine, but the order could use some tweaking at present. He is something like 3 for his last 20, or there abouts. A little shakeup wouldn't hurt for a series or so.
 

CEO2044

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May 11, 2009
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I appreciate the discussion, and fully respect your opinion. there's no right or wrong anyway. Actually, the buddy I was discussing this with said the same exact thing you did. He said if Bradford was getting on base and taking more pitches, he would almost rather lead him off and put Frazier in the 3 hole. So, I see what you're saying. I personally wouldn't do that, but I could see it possibly work.

Yep. You could tweak it in a number of ways. And I'd like to, because I like to experiment.

Should have expounded more, but I'm a bit tired this weekend. I would like to see Frazier dropped 1-2 spots at least, for at least a game, get him some guys ahead of him that get on and see if we can get some early runs. But I get the importance of having him high in the order to get more AB's. I just don't think dropping him a spot or two will hurt his AB attempts significantly enough to kill us.

And I think if you have Renfroe behind him, it's hard to get around Frazier and pitchers have to be more honest.

JMO, I agree that there's not a ton of right and wrong here, just differences in opinion. I have my preferences like others have theirs.
 

Will James

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skb124

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Alright thanks for posting that. Never really knew the numbers so I guess my perception was off. It looks as though matchups aren't an absolutely huge issue by those numbers. I still like splitting up my lineup tho.