After wins against TT and Texas - should Lyons extend DH's contract now or wait?

[wbgvwbgv]

Holgorsen current contract runs until 2018 (through 2017) and will likely be extended until 2020 at some point. By waiting, it will make it harder to recruit players looking for a program with coaching stability. Holgorsen will probably take WVU to another bowl this year making it 4 out of 5 years. With every win going forward this season including a possible bowl win, that extension will become costlier.

And then there are the Miami rumors that are still lingering. There are going to be a lot of head coaching vacancies to be filled and successful head coaches with only a few years remaining on their contracts will be targeted. Shane Lyons needs to show some leadership and commit to this coaching staff sooner rather than later.

Look at who is crowd surfing now!!!

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Wait! It will have very little, if any at all, impact on recruiting. I'm not bashing Dana (in fact I have been one of the relative few that said we should judge him on the entire body of work, the entire season), but I don't see SC and Miami approaching him. I also do not see him having leverage to up his amount based on an 8-win regular season. His salary is in the top 35 or so nationwide. If he were to win a Big XII conference championship, he would have some leverage.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

If Holgorson left for Miami it would be for less money and His overall body of work does not give him much leverage to negotiate at this point

 

[dogeered_again]

To say that it would not affect recruiting is silly. It most certainly would. Recruits don't like coaching changes and especially when their primary coach would likely be collateral damage along with the head coach. We see it every year in other programs.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

To say that it would not affect recruiting is silly. It most certainly would. Recruits don't like coaching changes and especially when their primary coach would likely be collateral damage along with the head coach. We see it every year in other programs.

Oh OK. Some 17 or 18 year old kid would turn us down, not because of facilities or his like or dislike of a coach, or a friend is committing to us, or the gameday atmosphere, or his like or dislike of the campus, but because the head coach only has two more years on his contract. Got it.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

Oh OK. Some 17 or 18 year old kid would turn us down, not because of facilities or his like or dislike of a coach, or a friend is committing to us, or the gameday atmosphere, or his like or dislike of the campus, but because the head coach only has two more years on his contract. Got it.

Long term contracts (4 or more years) definitely give you an advantage when you are trying to convince a recruit to join your program. And I would think that talented recruits with options are less inclined to join a program where the coaching staff may or may not be around in one or two years. A long term contract is a commitment from the coach to the school and a commitment from the school to the coach and I think that is a very important factor in the decision of talented recruits.

 

[MountaineerWV]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? Win is beating teams that have a losing record dictate shelling out more money? How about beating Oklahoma once? Or even Kansas State? Amazing how you think he's worthy of ANOTHER contract extension. Glad you don't run my company.....

 

[dogeered_again]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? Win is beating teams that have a losing record dictate shelling out more money? How about beating Oklahoma once? Or even Kansas State? Amazing how you think he's worthy of ANOTHER contract extension. Glad you don't run my company.....

You probably have a company of morons!

 

[dogeered_again]

Oh OK. Some 17 or 18 year old kid would turn us down, not because of facilities or his like or dislike of a coach, or a friend is committing to us, or the gameday atmosphere, or his like or dislike of the campus, but because the head coach only has two more years on his contract. Got it.

I was speaking to the possibility that he would be released after this year... not 2 years from now. As for game day atmosphere, we are pretty good but I would say our facilities are just average compared to our peers in our league. Don't get me wrong... I have nothing but love for WVU and our Mountaineers but Morgantown only appeals to a certain type of recruit. If we were to lose our coaching staff at the end of this year, those subjective elements will be weighed against the rest of it all and the kids won't be the only one making the decisions for them. They also have family and other "advisers" who will be in their head.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

Wait! It will have very little, if any at all, impact on recruiting. I'm not bashing Dana (in fact I have been one of the relative few that said we should judge him on the entire body of work, the entire season), but I don't see SC and Miami approaching him. I also do not see him having leverage to up his amount based on an 8-win regular season. His salary is in the top 35 or so nationwide. If he were to win a Big XII conference championship, he would have some leverage.

The speculation is that up to 1/4 of all head coaching jobs in the 5 power conferences could see a change 2016. And as far as market salaries, I think that Holgorsen is below the average power 5 conferences head coaching salary. He is certainly in the bottom half in the Big 12.

Keep in mind that if another school comes in at the last minute and snatches Holgorsen away from WVU (say after a successful bowl game win), it will be slim pickings at that point with so many openings having already been filled.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

Win is beating teams that have a losing record dictate shelling out more money? .

lol

 

[wbgvwbgv]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? Win is beating teams that have a losing record dictate shelling out more money? How about beating Oklahoma once? Or even Kansas State? Amazing how you think he's worthy of ANOTHER contract extension. Glad you don't run my company.....

Texas Tech has a winning record and Texas knocked off a top ten team this year. Any time you can beat a texas school in football, it is a good thing.

 

[VaultHunter]

You wait till the end of the season.

Honestly I don't think it will hurt anything by waiting. Give him the extension before the bowl game.

 

[Mtneer001]

When we were in the big east, i used to worry about us losing head coaches to better programs. now, i'm not so worried being in the big 12. i like holgorsen. i don't care that he's not from west virginia. he runs a clean program and seems to love morgantown. i don't want to lose him.

but if we did lose him, we could replace him. wvu is a top 35 program and i would venture to guess on par or better than the miami job. the miami job is not the same as it was in the 90's. The president and AD of miami, plus being in the acc, have really set the miami football program back a few years.

wvu pays holgorsen almost $3.0 million, and in the next round of negotiations he will make even more than that. The SEC West coaches make $4.0 million, so he's not too far from them.

we are finally becoming what we all hoped wvu would be, a competitive big 12 football school with the (hopeful) chance of winning the conference in a few years.

 

[TruWVblu]

The apathy and accepted mediocrity that is setting in with our program is troubling to me. I love that we beat Texas Tech and Texas but the fact is, that is simply not an accomplishment worthy of a contract extension at this point. Iowa State beat Texas and beat them badly.

I personally am not sure if Holgorsen should remain our head coach or not. I do not like a lot of what I have seen but saying a man should lose his job is a really big deal to me. But it seems to me that many would be happy with the same results over the next three years that we have had over the past three years. I hear people making all sorts of excuses for Holgorsen in an attempt to call him successful. Just two weeks ago I heard many, in response to people saying he should be fired, say that we should wait until the end of the season to see how things went. Now, all of a sudden, those same people are willing to give him an extension without waiting it out to see how things go. This seems very hypocritical to me. Is it wrong to expect just a little more from our program?

 

[WiiWii]

Holgorsen current contract runs until 2018 (through 2017) and will likely be extended until 2020 at some point. By waiting, it will make it harder to recruit players looking for a program with coaching stability. Holgorsen will probably take WVU to another bowl this year making it 4 out of 5 years. With every win going forward this season including a possible bowl win, that extension will become costlier.

And then there are the Miami rumors that are still lingering. There are going to be a lot of head coaching vacancies to be filled and successful head coaches with only a few years remaining on their contracts will be targeted. Shane Lyons needs to show some leadership and commit to this coaching staff sooner rather than later.

Look at who is crowd surfing now!!!

When he figures out that he needs to run the ball on 3rd and goal when they are gaining every single play, then he deserves an extension. Not before.

 

[pressvirginia]

agreed and well stated, Tru. I'm proud of the team for not mailing it in as others have before. Entering this Nov., Dana was 3-9 in Novembers against the BXII. So this is a sign - at least for now - of tangible improvement in November.

Give a ton of credit to Wendell Smallwood, now a thousand plus yard rusher. He is the heart and soul of the team now. Credit the defense for hanging tough.

Don't know the ongoings behind the scenes & who are realistic, attainable replacement options in the event that becomes the decision. That would sway the discussion obviously and the unknown now makes this difficult to survey. Another 7-6 deal & it's time to make a change just as it was when 9-4 was not meeting the expectation.

On the other hand, 9-4 this season with a really impressive, significant bowl win would earn Dana an extension of some variety. I believe his contract should be re-negotiated to include a minimal buyout in the event this doesn't work out thereafter. You reward a very strong, complete finish. But you also remember the body of work has had many growing pains and losses (23-24 since '12, 13-20 vs BXII). That way you don't run off a coach & owe him a ton of money, but you also give yourself an out if next season is more of the same.

 

[pressvirginia]

as to the Miami stuff, footballscoop has some info on that. Mario Cristobal is said to be at the top of their list. Butch Davis is said to be a fallback option. Charlie Strong and Tommy Tuberville are two other names that may factor in.

Luther Campbell was the primary voice that got the Dana to Miami stuff going. I don't see it happening.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

You wait till the end of the season.

Honestly I don't think it will hurt anything by waiting. Give him the extension before the bowl game.

President Gordon Gee and I agree with you, so you're in hallowed company. Premature to do anything now. If Rich goes to VT, then that will make for an interesting game in 2017.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Two things:

First did any of you go to the game this weekend? Second did you see DH going in the locker room at halftime? If the answer to the questions is yes, you saw this guy run him down, peck him on the shoulder, and slap hands like he just scored a TD. Btw that guy's last name is Lyons if my vision was at all accurate. At least on Saturday Lyons pretty darn happy with DH. If he finishes strong, an extension is guaranteed.


As for Miami, they'll have to up the salary which isn't that low. A lot of reports said Al Golden was making over $3 million and some as high as $3.5 million. As for DH there, I doubt it and not because of lack of him being interested but they are going to hire a Miami guy AGAIN and the names listed do make sense. I'd hire Tubberville cause he's a heck of a coach and I don't care what his age is. The guy would do very well in the ACC. The acc isn't the SEC or Big XII in terms of competition and top coaches.

 

[WESTBGVA]

Two things:

First did any of you go to the game this weekend? Second did you see DH going in the locker room at halftime? If the answer to the questions is yes, you saw this guy run him down, peck him on the shoulder, and slap hands like he just scored a TD. Btw that guy's last name is Lyons if my vision was at all accurate. At least on Saturday Lyons pretty darn happy with DH. If he finishes strong, an extension is guaranteed.


As for Miami, they'll have to up the salary which isn't that low. A lot of reports said Al Golden was making over $3 million and some as high as $3.5 million. As for DH there, I doubt it and not because of lack of him being interested but they are going to hire a Miami guy AGAIN and the names listed do make sense. I'd hire Tubberville cause he's a heck of a coach and I don't care what his age is. The guy would do very well in the ACC. The acc isn't the SEC or Big XII in terms of competition and top coaches.

That Clemson coach has had five..lol..my finger hit the wrong button.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

What do you mean Clemson coach has had five?

Not understanding

 

[WESTBGVA]

Swinney is a great coach..he's won 10 or more games every year for the past five seasons ...that first 10 win season that started the streak was when we beat the socks off of Clemson in the Orange..this will no doubt be his third year of at least 11 wins in that time frame..and the man is only 45.

 

[saltydog8159]

Some may not know that in this day of college football if you do not keep your coach on a somewhat perpetual contract extension it is a sign that the coach may be out the door very soon. Rivals use this fact against a school in recruiting. With that said if I was in charge I would not consider a contract extension until this season is completed. That still gives him a month before national letter of intent day.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

Waiting a few weeks probably won't hurt anything, but the last thing that Shane Lyons should do is delay the extension beyond the end of November which would have the following negative consequences:

1. Hurt recruiting needlessly.

2. Encourage other schools to consider making a play for Holgorsen.

3. Prompt the coaching staff to explore other options.

4. Force Dana to deal with rumors negatively affecting the program and players.

Unlike the silliness on a free message board (Saban, RR, Tressel, Muhammad Ali, etc.), Shane Lyons is the one who would have to hire Dana's replacement if he leaves. One wrong hire could turn WVU into another Kansas (and A.D.s who do that don't last very long) plus the trolls and low information fans will still want to fire the new coach after every loss.

IMO there is still a lot of up side with our current coaching staff. They can't consistently beat top 10 teams yet, but with a few more play makers they just might get there some day.

WVU 2012 Orange Bowl Champions

 

[WVU-SE]

The apathy and accepted mediocrity that is setting in with our program is troubling to me. I love that we beat Texas Tech and Texas but the fact is, that is simply not an accomplishment worthy of a contract extension at this point. Iowa State beat Texas and beat them badly.

I personally am not sure if Holgorsen should remain our head coach or not. I do not like a lot of what I have seen but saying a man should lose his job is a really big deal to me. But it seems to me that many would be happy with the same results over the next three years that we have had over the past three years. I hear people making all sorts of excuses for Holgorsen in an attempt to call him successful. Just two weeks ago I heard many, in response to people saying he should be fired, say that we should wait until the end of the season to see how things went. Now, all of a sudden, those same people are willing to give him an extension without waiting it out to see how things go. This seems very hypocritical to me. Is it wrong to expect just a little more from our program?

I'll be honest and admit I'm a fan of Holgs. That being said I agree with you here. I was going under the assumption that we won out, but after reading the OP again it strictly says now. I would think if we close out 8-4 we should definitely offer an extension as IMO that would be a job well done.

It's easy now to say this was a disappointing season, but when you consider the young receivers, the QB (I'm sorry, he's not very good), 8-4 is a fine job. Especially all losses being from top 15 teams.

We win the bowl games and it's a VERY successful season in my book.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

Swinney is a great coach..he's won 10 or more games every year for the past five seasons ...that first 10 win season that started the streak was when we beat the socks off of Clemson in the Orange..this will no doubt be his third year of at least 11 wins in that time frame..and the man is only 45.

Would he still have 10+ wins if he was in any other conference? The last time Holgorsen and Swinney met, Dana crushed him. I think if they played today, WVU would win.

. . . . . .

The charismatic coach who had always seemed to say all the right things was becoming aware that many of the Tiger fans were no longer "All-In." To a large portion of the Clemson fan base, Dabo Swinney was on the hot seat.

There was a large segment of the Tiger faithful who had never been happy with the choice to hire Swinney in the first place. Fans who wanted to completely change the culture of Clemson and return it to the glory days of the 1980s complained that he was really nothing more than a leftover of the Tommy Bowden era.

Many were displeased that a man with no previous experience as a head coach or even at the coordinator level was handed the keys to a once-proud program that expected to compete for an ACC Championship every year.

. . . . . . .

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...coach-dabo-swinney-from-hot-seat-to-hot-coach

 

[MountaineerWV]

Waiting a few weeks probably won't hurt anything, but the last thing that Shane Lyons should do is delay the extension beyond the end of November which would have the following negative consequences:

1. Hurt recruiting needlessly.

2. Encourage other schools to consider making a play for Holgorsen.

3. Prompt the coaching staff to explore other options.

4. Force Dana to deal with rumors negatively affecting the program and players.

Unlike the silliness on a free message board (Saban, RR, Tressel, Muhammad Ali, etc.), Shane Lyons is the one who would have to hire Dana's replacement if he leaves. One wrong hire could turn WVU into another Kansas (and A.D.s who do that don't last very long) plus the trolls and low information fans will still want to fire the new coach after every loss.

IMO there is still a lot of up side with our current coaching staff. They can't consistently beat top 10 teams yet, but with a few more play makers they just might get there some day.

WVU 2012 Orange Bowl Champions

You know what ultimately hurts recruiting? NOT WINNING CONSISTENTLY! Going 7-6 won't bring in the best recruits.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

You know what ultimately hurts recruiting? NOT WINNING CONSISTENTLY! Going 7-6 won't bring in the best recruits.

Will 9-4?

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Ok i see what you're saying.

My point is There are 14 schools in the ACC. How many of those schools are good jobs and are winning? Miami is the right outlaw coach away from being back. They got to find a new uncle to replace Nev and Luther.

Aside from FSU &.Clemson on the other side of the conference from "The U". The U only really has to beat VPI. The other schools are basketball schools.. Really that conference has 1 really Hot program to beat every year for miami (FSU), the rest is the schedule due to the luck of the draw. They only play 8 conference games. The OOC is weak. The recruiting is easier than the schedule.

 

[TruWVblu]

I'll be honest and admit I'm a fan of Holgs. That being said I agree with you here. I was going under the assumption that we won out, but after reading the OP again it strictly says now. I would think if we close out 8-4 we should definitely offer an extension as IMO that would be a job well done.

It's easy now to say this was a disappointing season, but when you consider the young receivers, the QB (I'm sorry, he's not very good), 8-4 is a fine job. Especially all losses being from top 15 teams.

We win the bowl games and it's a VERY successful season in my book.

So would you be happy with the same results next year? I mean another year of beating only the teams we should beat and finishing in the middle of the conference again? If so, when should we expect more on a consistent basis. I am really not trying to bash anyone. Just trying to get a feeling for what we are to expect from our program.

 

[WESTBGVA]

no

Some may not know that in this day of college football if you do not keep your coach on a somewhat perpetual contract extension it is a sign that the coach may be out the door very soon. Rivals use this fact against a school in recruiting. With that said if I was in charge I would not consider a contract extension until this season is completed. That still gives him a month before national letter of intent day.

no coach is irreplaceable..there always has and always will be some talented young coach out t

Would he still have 10+ wins if he was in any other conference? The last time Holgorsen and Swinney met, Dana crushed him. I think if they played today, WVU would win.

. . . . . .

The charismatic coach who had always seemed to say all the right things was becoming aware that many of the Tiger fans were no longer "All-In." To a large portion of the Clemson fan base, Dabo Swinney was on the hot seat.

There was a large segment of the Tiger faithful who had never been happy with the choice to hire Swinney in the first place. Fans who wanted to completely change the culture of Clemson and return it to the glory days of the 1980s complained that he was really nothing more than a leftover of the Tommy Bowden era.

Many were displeased that a man with no previous experience as a head coach or even at the coordinator level was handed the keys to a once-proud program that expected to compete for an ACC Championship every year.

. . . . . . .

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...coach-dabo-swinney-from-hot-seat-to-hot-coach

I hope you're joking..if not I really don't know what to say..or type..they were in the toilet before he got there..

 

[WESTBGVA]

Ok i see what you're saying.

My point is There are 14 schools in the ACC. How many of those schools are good jobs and are winning? Miami is the right outlaw coach away from being back. They got to find a new uncle to replace Nev and Luther.

Aside from FSU &.Clemson on the other side of the conference from "The U". The U only really has to beat VPI. The other schools are basketball schools.. Really that conference has 1 really Hot program to beat every year for miami (FSU), the rest is the schedule due to the luck of the draw. They only play 8 conference games. The OOC is weak. The recruiting is easier than the schedule.

they won a national championship two years ago..Miami will get back to being Miami before long..best recruiting tool they ever used..take the recruits to the beach and somehow it's just lined with bikini clad coeds..

 

[WESTBGVA]

Ly

Waiting a few weeks probably won't hurt anything, but the last thing that Shane Lyons should do is delay the extension beyond the end of November which would have the following negative consequences:

1. Hurt recruiting needlessly.

2. Encourage other schools to consider making a play for Holgorsen.

3. Prompt the coaching staff to explore other options.

4. Force Dana to deal with rumors negatively affecting the program and players.

Unlike the silliness on a free message board (Saban, RR, Tressel, Muhammad Ali, etc.), Shane Lyons is the one who would have to hire Dana's replacement if he leaves. One wrong hire could turn WVU into another Kansas (and A.D.s who do that don't last very long) plus the trolls and low information fans will still want to fire the new coach after every loss.

IMO there is still a lot of up side with our current coaching staff. They can't consistently beat top 10 teams yet, but with a few more play makers they just might get there some day.

WVU 2012 Orange Bowl Champions

Lyons came from Alabama..he will do what he needs to do..

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Ugh best recruiting tool isnt bikini clad women, it is strippers, hookers, and lots of $$$$$$, and the U has spent a lot of it. Uncle Nev took it to a whole new level.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

Ly

Lyons came from Alabama..he will do what he needs to do..

Lyons was Deputy Director of Athletics at Alabama reporting to the Athletic Director (similar to Michael Szul's position at WVU). Only 3 of his 30 years in collegiate athletics administration was at Alabama. Nick Saban had already won a National Championship two years earlier and was working on a 2nd one when Lyons was hired (at Alabama).

Lyons may very well do the right thing, but his brief time at Alabama and limited role while on Mal Moore's staff gives no assurance in this situation.



Michael Szul, Senior Associate Athletic Director/Business Operations
http://www.wvusports.com/staffDirectory.cfm?func=view&staffID=2242

 

[Buckaineer]

Holgorsen had the 35th highest salary based on this report from USA Today :
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

Teams just ahead of WVU in 2015:
Texas Tech--2015 record 6-5
Louisville--2015 record 6-4
Arizona State--2015 record 5-5
Kansas State--2015 record 3-6

WVU---2015 record 5-4

Teams just behind WVU in 2015:
Georgia Tech--2015 record 3-7
Virginia Tech--2015 record 5-5
Washington State--2015 record 7-3
Nebraska--2015 record 5-6

So, those suggesting that Holgorsen's salary is somehow out of line with his peers or record are just not basing their thoughts on the reality of the situation.

 

[Pushingtin]

I can only imagine the OP as one of the dumbest people ever to enter this site.......
1. There is zero interest in Dana
2. We are something like 38 in recruiting.....behind the likes of Louisville.......nothing to write home about
3. Beating a Bad Texas team is absolutely no accomplishment just because their name is Texas Longhorns.....do you even know how stupid you sound to even suggest that
4. other coaching staff are already under contract with their own buyouts

Thank god there are people in the know that are able to make decisions and have come to the same conclusion......Dana is a not good coach and will never get WVU to the top. There will be no contract extension

 

[pressvirginia]

well the people in the know in the past took the iterim tag off Stewart after a huge bowl win and most likely without the full due diligence of a coaching search.

Dana got this present contract with no buyout after one huge bowl win too. both were reactions to one big win in each instance. both coaches were rewarded for winning with the players of their predecessors.

the people in the know also brought in Dana as the coach in waiting/offensive coordinator under Stewart from what I remember. that was poorly conceived and failed miserably. those events likely hindered Luck's ability to get the Texas AD job. the awkward situation with Stewart put a lot of stress on him I would say. he acted out & had a sad, unfortunate ending.

the athletic department also was highly dysfunctional with Rodriguez which helped lead to his departure as well.

clearly this is a new AD so it remains to be seen how the situation would be handled. there's been a lot of dysfunction & changeover in the last 8 years or so. WV is not the only school to struggle with these comings & goings.

 

[TruWVblu]

Holgorsen had the 35th highest salary based on this report from USA Today :
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

Teams just ahead of WVU in 2015:
Texas Tech--2015 record 6-5
Louisville--2015 record 6-4
Arizona State--2015 record 5-5
Kansas State--2015 record 3-6

WVU---2015 record 5-4

Teams just behind WVU in 2015:
Georgia Tech--2015 record 3-7
Virginia Tech--2015 record 5-5
Washington State--2015 record 7-3
Nebraska--2015 record 5-6

So, those suggesting that Holgorsen's salary is somehow out of line with his peers or record are just not basing their thoughts on the reality of the situation.

A couple of weeks ago most were wondering if he should remain our head coach, now after victories over two very mediocre opponents, we are talking contract extension. What in the world has he done to deserve that? Even if you were not on fire Holgorsen wagon, surely you do not believe beating the bottom of the conference is worthy of such talk. Again I ask, would you be happy with another season just like the one we are having now? If so, apathy has truly set in to our fan base.