Allen 1 game susp, UNC fans go nuts. UNC creates fake classes for...

Liftee

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Respectfully, I disagree with a lot that has been said here.

Greenberg's complaining about Duke is a way of saying "I never could beat them on the court so I'll air my grievances behind the safety of a microphone". I think he's funny in his sour grapes!

J-Will is following Bilas' lead and over compensating. Still better to hear him than Hubert Davis cheerlead for the Cheaters. I'm proud we have so many prominent members of the media!

My favorite game announcer? Adrian Branch! I really like the guy but we never hear him until the tournament for some reason. He's very respectful toward Coach K and Duke and I like his style.
 
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dukehokie

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I agree Hokie. When I posted what I did earlier in the thread it was not questionbing Willimas and his affiliation with Duke. The dude is a Blue Devil and will be forever. I respect his opinion, but like I said, I think some of it is driven by who he works for and who is watching the network he is working for. No problem from me there. He isn't doing anything wrong.

Greenburg on the other hand has never missed an opportunity to take on Duke. It shows all the time. He did it as a coach and even more as a talking head.

On campus Greenberg was a great guy at Tech. As a commentator it's like he playing the Skip Bayless role (who is also a very nice person) to the nth degree. He just says things to piss people off. Then spews some Duke hate to get back in good graces. His mouth is one reason he doesn't have a job coaching.
 

Dattier

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Respectfully, I disagree with a lot that has been said here.
I'm going to borrow this one line, if I may...

If K himself asked me what I thought "indefinite" meant, I'd have said 3-4 games. If he then said, "Nah, just one," I'd have said, "Oh? Okay, you're the GOAT." It's not a matter of my disagreeing so much as my first look at it being from a different place.

I loved what K said in announcing the suspension when he said it was none of anyone else's business how it was handled behind closed doors, and I see that in the final result, too. I love that K wasn't bound to some outside interpretation of what "indefinite" meant. It would be far worse if he extended the suspension for no other reason than appeasing the public.

Bilas is the best in the business. Period. I don't always agree w/ him, but I respect every single last thing about how he conducts himself. I have no qualms about how he treats Duke at all. I like it when his comments range beyond basketball, too. His part in "Fantastic Lies" was awesome, for example. He's a lawyer! Why would we want to contain his genius to nothing but basketball commentary? That would be like complaining that K talks about patriotism, character building, and relationships b/c we want nothing but Xs and Os out of him.

JWill is improving. I think he's best in the studio, where he has time to be reflective, thoughtful. He isn't at the point where he can go unscripted as well. I have no issue w/ how he treats Duke, either.

I don't know many successful people who -- while on the job -- prioritize other concerns that make them do their job worse. If Bilas or JWill is tough on Duke, how little must we really think of them as people if we interpret that as trying-not-to-look-partisan as opposed to being their honest, professional opinion that we are welcome to disagree with? How insulting to their integrity! How embarrassing to ourselves as fans that we would want them to behave like puppets or trained monkeys or sycophants rather than allow them to be themselves.
 
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Dattier

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My theory is that K met with all the players including Allen and decided it wasn't right to unduly punish the whole team by sitting Grayson (in effect that's what was happening with him out). Instead, I think the team decided to limit Grayson's shots and told him to set up his teammates more than he normally would by driving hard and kicking. It makes sense to me to have Grayson playing for everyone else rather than not playing at all (and leaving everyone out to dry) after selfishly acting out in a game. K alluded to Grayson's "new role" in that Bilas interview.
That sounds like Bobby Bowden right there, not punishing a player b/c he's too valuable to the team... Team over individual, yes, but program over single year's team, too.

Other than losing the captaincy, I don't think Grayson's "new role" has the slightest thing to do with punishment. K talks about the best team shot all the time, how passing to the guy with the best shot is seeking "our shot." No way in the world he or the team would say Grayson can't shoot as much to punish him.

If the facilitating we saw vs GT is a sign of things to come, I would be more inclined to think of it as (a) what makes the team better first and foremost, (b) taking some of the pressure that appeared to be getting to Grayson off of him, and (c) making better use of our improving depth as Jayson and Harry and Quis get into the swing of things.
 
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timo0402

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That sounds like Bobby Bowden right there, not punishing a player b/c he's too valuable to the team... Team over individual, yes, but program over single year's team, too.

Other than losing the captaincy, I don't think Grayson's "new role" has the slightest thing to do with punishment. K talks about the best team shot all the time, how passing to the guy with the best shot is seeking "our shot." No way in the world he or the team would say Grayson can't shoot as much to punish him.

If the facilitating we saw vs GT is a sign of things to come, I would be more inclined to think of it as (a) what makes the team better first and foremost, (b) taking some of the pressure that appeared to be getting to Grayson off of him, and (c) making better use of our improving depth as Jayson and Harry and Quis get into the swing of things.
Agree with this bolded part here Dat. Well said.
 

DukeDenver

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That sounds like Bobby Bowden right there, not punishing a player b/c he's too valuable to the team... Team over individual, yes, but program over single year's team, too.

Other than losing the captaincy, I don't think Grayson's "new role" has the slightest thing to do with punishment. K talks about the best team shot all the time, how passing to the guy with the best shot is seeking "our shot." No way in the world he or the team would say Grayson can't shoot as much to punish him.

If the facilitating we saw vs GT is a sign of things to come, I would be more inclined to think of it as (a) what makes the team better first and foremost, (b) taking some of the pressure that appeared to be getting to Grayson off of him, and (c) making better use of our improving depth as Jayson and Harry and Quis get into the swing of things.
Bowden didn't punish anyone at "Free Shoes University." I think the one game suspension, loss of captain status and the public embarrassment was punishment enough for a heat of the moment leg whip that wasn't meant to injure. I think Grayson leveled with K and said it was killing him to be screwing over his teammates by sitting on the pine. Maybe K finds it more constructive for Allen to actually show how sorry he is with his play by setting others up for success.

Grayson only took 5 shots despite playing 27 minutes, all while racking up 7 assists (and 7 more blown assists). That's actually the first time Grayson has taken that few shots in a game playing at least 20 minutes, and fewest shots taken in any game since his freshman year; he usually shoots 12-14 times. His approach to the game was different by design. Coach K said part of his punishment was more like "teaching" outside of the public eye. I'd say the two are related. I do like your take on the last bit. That's certainly a factor too. I love our coach.
 

MikeD2891

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The reaction to "indefinite" being 1 game is being blown way out of proportion. I guess it takes someone who has a marketing or PR mindset, but it was so blatantly obvious to me when that "indefinite" comment was made that it was done because Coach K wanted time to decide how long Grayson would actually be suspended and he knew any real number would be criticized so he went with the quick, safe amount of "indefinite". I don't think there was any real thought behind giving that amount than to just quickly get out in front of things and calm the media down.
 
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hart2chesson

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Jay's part in "Fantastic Lies." Was that the UNC guy's piece about the scandal "Unverified?"
I understand he basically was stating during the film how the UNC Cheats academic scandal was not related to the NCAA....Lol, couldnt resist...

OFC
 
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GAAP_rivals

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The reaction to "indefinite" being 1 game is being blown way out of proportion. I guess it takes someone who has a marketing or PR mindset, but it was so blatantly obvious to me when that "indefinite" comment was made that it was done because Coach K wanted time to decide how long Grayson would actually be suspended and he knew any real number would be criticized so he went with the quick, safe amount of "indefinite". I don't think there was any real thought behind giving that amount than to just quickly get out in front of things and calm the media down.

Yes. Lots of people do not appear to know the meaning of "indefinite." Having a son who recently graduated from high school, I am dismayed at how little attention is paid to vocabulary (and spelling).
 
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hart2chesson

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Yes. Lots of people do not appear to know the meaning of "indefinite." Having a son who recently graduated from high school, I am dismayed at how little attention is paid to vocabulary (and spelling).

Amen!

OFC
 

timo0402

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The reaction to "indefinite" being 1 game is being blown way out of proportion. I guess it takes someone who has a marketing or PR mindset, but it was so blatantly obvious to me when that "indefinite" comment was made that it was done because Coach K wanted time to decide how long Grayson would actually be suspended and he knew any real number would be criticized so he went with the quick, safe amount of "indefinite". I don't think there was any real thought behind giving that amount than to just quickly get out in front of things and calm the media down.
It didn't matter, it never did. No matter what it was it was going to be criticized. I find it humorous that people (mostly UNC/RR) fans get so worked up about it.
 

chov1125

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It didn't matter, it never did. No matter what it was it was going to be criticized. I find it humorous that people (mostly UNC/RR) fans get so worked up about it.

We are owning them over recent history which rattles them to their core. We poke fun at UNC, but I see very little anger or hate coming from this side of the table. I guess when your rival owns you on the court it transforms light-hearted mocking into genuine hate.
 

Dad2ze

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Bilas at his most favorite place... :rolleyes:

He must secretly regret not going to UNC. I bet he wears UNC boxers and has a signed poster of Dean is his man cave. I honestly can't stand Bilas. If offered a signed Basketball from Bilas or to have a hand removed...I guess I'd have to learn to tie shoes with one hand.
 

hart2chesson

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He must secretly regret not going to UNC. I bet he wears UNC boxers and has a signed poster of Dean is his man cave. I honestly can't stand Bilas. If offered a signed Basketball from Bilas or to have a hand removed...I guess I'd have to learn to tie shoes with one hand.

I think he guarded Pervis Ellison w/one hand....

OFC
 
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gottagonow

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He must secretly regret not going to UNC. I bet he wears UNC boxers and has a signed poster of Dean is his man cave. I honestly can't stand Bilas. If offered a signed Basketball from Bilas or to have a hand removed...I guess I'd have to learn to tie shoes with one hand.
No me man, I would take the basketball and sell it to someone at THR.
 

skysdad

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I will say this, the "being stripped of the captaincy" thing is REALLY really undervalued by basically everyone. That has got to be the absolute worst part of the whole thing for Grayson. Being a captain of the Duke men's basketball team is a BIG ****ing deal, and means a LOT to a person. Being stripped of that is as horrifyingly embarrassing as possible.


I agree dude. My son DukeSky85 had a discussion about this today. That had to hurt a lot more than the suspension even though it was just 1 game and still would if it had been more games. I've heard of many suspensions but I've never heard of a player being stripped of being a captain although there may have been some. That had to humble Grayson. Not all players at Duke automatically become captains and very few their junior year. That's sort of like being demoted in the military or law enforcement to a degree. I really hope this turns him around and if by any chance he is back next year perhaps he can earn that "C" back but taking away his captain title was certainly appropriate. OFC
 

skysdad

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If you guys want to to know what anti-Duke and anti-Coach writers are all about look at what The Greensboro- News and Record main sportswriter Ed Hardin writes. I'll will try to post his latest article. OFC
 

hart2chesson

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If you guys want to to know what anti-Duke and anti-Coach writers are all about look at what The Greensboro- News and Record main sportswriter Ed Hardin writes. I'll will try to post his latest article. OFC

Hes anti-Duke from the word go Sky. Did a hatchet piece on K last yr for getting Derryck Thornton to enroll a year early....

OFC
 

skysdad

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If you guys want to to know what anti-Duke and anti-Coach writers are all about look at what The Greensboro- News and Record main sportswriter Ed Hardin writes. I'll will try to post his latest article. OFC



It's the full article but you don't need to go far to see who he is a fan of. Like hart said below he has chopped up Coach K in the past and is always looking for something. He didn't go to unc but was raised in North Carolina . Sorry about the extra stuff. I don't know how to get rid of it. If any mods know how to get rid of the stuff that doesn't relate please do so. OFC



Ed Hardin: Blue Devils thrive on a strange night of transition
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Ben McKeown

Duke head coach Mike Krzyzewski shouts to his team during the first half of an NCAA college basketball game against Georgia Tech in Durham, N.C., Wednesday, Jan. 4, 2017. (AP Photo/Ben McKeown)






Posted: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 10:30 pm

By Ed Hardin [email protected]

DURHAM — Grayson Allen returned after one whole game, apparently having learned some sort of lesson, and Mike Krzyzewski coached one more game, apparently having learned he’s not immortal.

Allen came back from a one-game suspension that most people expected to be a lot longer and brought Duke together, warts and all. Now comes Krzyzewski’s surgery. We’ll see if Duke recovers.

On a strange Wednesday night in the ACC, the Blue Devils destroyed Georgia Tech 110-57 in one of the most lopsided wins in conference history. It was, in fact, the fifth-largest margin of victory in an ACC game. Ever.

“No one would’ve beaten them tonight,” Tech coach Josh Pastner said.

That’s debatable, but for the first time all season, Duke looked like Duke. Or at least what we thought Duke would look like before the season started and all the freshmen started going down and Allen tripped somebody else and Krzyzewski’s medication wore off and the Blue Devils started to come apart.

Wednesday was a bit of a shock in that sense. Coming home after a loss to Virginia Tech, it wasn’t clear that Duke was even capable of a game like this. And considering all that was swirling around, it seemed as if the Blue Devils were headed into another tailspin in January.

Krzyzewski decided Wednesday wouldn’t just be the end of his misery before back surgery. He decided it would be a new start for his team with all the parts in place for a run to April.

Harry Giles, the top recruit in the country, started for the first time as a collegian. Players played the positions they were supposed to play for the first time since October. And at some point not made exactly clear by the coach or the player, the shamed and well-rested Allen was reinstated.

“We felt like it was appropriate,” Krzyzewski said.

Allen tripped Elon’s Steven Santa Ana two weeks ago in Greensboro, the third time in two seasons the petulant point guard had lost his mind and tripped an opponent. He then threw a little fit on the bench that night, revealing an immaturity that shocked most anyone who saw it. Krzyzewski stripped Allen of his role as a team captain and said the junior would be out indefinitely.

One game.

Krzyzewski said there were decisions made “behind the scenes” that led he and Duke athletics director Kevin White to come to the decision that Allen had indeed learned his lesson.

“I accept all the discipline,” Allen said.

So it was over. Allen had returned, Duke was once again the best team in the nation and there was great rejoicing.

A little too much rejoicing.

The truth is, he’s still the guy who tripped three players in two years to ruin his reputation and set up his team for what Pastner thought his own team had to go through Wednesday, a daunting road game in front of crazed fans.

That wasn’t the case at all Wednesday.

Allen returned after one measly game and played in front of a replacement crowd, with a few empty seats scattered about — the students not back from the holidays, the band not back, the cheerleaders and the mascot not back.

This wasn’t a wild night in Cameron. This was a practice game against Georgia Tech, the first game back for a player who probably should be sitting for a whole lot longer and the last game for a while for a coach who had no business being at work.

Krzyzewski was in pain all night, his herniated disc rendering him an invalid in a chair. He winced when he stood and when he sat down again. He stumbled on the sidelines and almost fell walking off the court at halftime.

This was no joyous occasion in Duke history.

This was a business trip, a home game in front of new fans, an October practice in January less than 48 hours before Krzyzewski undergoes a scapel yet again, a man who will turn 70 next month trying to pull together a basketball team while putting off surgery.

There was a sadness to Wednesday night. It seemed like a beginning but it felt like an end.

And there was no indication that anyone learned anything.

Contact Ed Hardin at (336) 373-7069 and follow @Ed_Hardin on Twitter.













 
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Dad2ze

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In fairness I have heard Bilas appreciates peace and quiet.



Sky, Don't get me wrong I agree. I agree with a lot you say because you come with knowledge but like I said earlier. I'm not expecting Bilas or Jay to bend over backwards but more times than not Bilas doesn't seem a huge fan of the program. Maybe he's trying to cover it up by being anti-Duke but if that's the case, he sucks at acting.

This is his tweet from 2:30 this afternoon. He calls him Mike Krzyzewski. Even Jay W. calls him Coach, like he had that special relationship with him. Maybe Knstared having a better relationship with his players as the years passed but Bilas just seems like he hates he didn't have a special place in Coach K's heart.

Just my thoughts.
 

Voldukie

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Grayson should have grabbed his man package while he was prone on the ground.....that does not result in a suspension right? At least not for the Clemson Tigers Football team ...... Trip me anyday.... lay off the bollocks
 

dukehokie

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Sky, Don't get me wrong I agree. I agree with a lot you say because you come with knowledge but like I said earlier. I'm not expecting Bilas or Jay to bend over backwards but more times than not Bilas doesn't seem a huge fan of the program. Maybe he's trying to cover it up by being anti-Duke but if that's the case, he sucks at acting.

This is his tweet from 2:30 this afternoon. He calls him Mike Krzyzewski. Even Jay W. calls him Coach, like he had that special relationship with him. Maybe Knstared having a better relationship with his players as the years passed but Bilas just seems like he hates he didn't have a special place in Coach K's heart.

Just my thoughts.

I think that's nitpicking a little bit. The fact that he even put up a post means something. Greenberg didn't post anything. In fact, I bet Seth would've given Jay's post the old thumbs down. ;)
 

Dattier

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Sky, Don't get me wrong I agree. I agree with a lot you say because you come with knowledge but like I said earlier. I'm not expecting Bilas or Jay to bend over backwards but more times than not Bilas doesn't seem a huge fan of the program. Maybe he's trying to cover it up by being anti-Duke but if that's the case, he sucks at acting.

This is his tweet from 2:30 this afternoon. He calls him Mike Krzyzewski. Even Jay W. calls him Coach, like he had that special relationship with him. Maybe Knstared having a better relationship with his players as the years passed but Bilas just seems like he hates he didn't have a special place in Coach K's heart.

Just my thoughts.
Bilas has spoken passionately and proudly about being in K's first great recruiting class and how special it was to commit to him before anyone knew who he was.

He and JWill are of different generations. They're 18 years apart. They're from different places, different backgrounds, and have had different relationships w/ K. Bilas was an assistant coach, meaning he has had a peer relationship of a sort w/ K. JWill credits K w/ helping him piece his life back together after nearly dying.

My parents are Yankees, so I was never raised saying "sir" and "ma'am." There are other means of showing respect than the exact words people use.
 

Dad2ze

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I think that's nitpicking a little bit. The fact that he even put up a post means something. Greenberg didn't post anything. In fact, I bet Seth would've given Jay's post the old thumbs down. ;)
I know I'm being hard on Bilas. I also know he respects and loves K. Guess watching him commentate games where he seems anti-Duke has put a bad taste in my mouth. Apologies!
 
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Dad2ze

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Bilas has spoken passionately and proudly about being in K's first great recruiting class and how special it was to commit to him before anyone knew who he was.

He and JWill are of different generations. They're 18 years apart. They're from different places, different backgrounds, and have had different relationships w/ K. Bilas was an assistant coach, meaning he has had a peer relationship of a sort w/ K. JWill credits K w/ helping him piece his life back together after nearly dying.

My parents are Yankees, so I was never raised saying "sir" and "ma'am." There are other means of showing respect than the exact words people use.
Datt I understand. I wasn't expecting him to be all cuddly and mushy about K. Guess watching him be anti-Duke at times left a bad taste in my mouth.
 

Dattier

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Datt I understand. I wasn't expecting him to be all cuddly and mushy about K. Guess watching him be anti-Duke at times left a bad taste in my mouth.
It's the "anti-Duke" part where we disagree. There's no right or wrong, and there's no accounting for how any of us is inclined to see it, but I do think we have at least some control over how we choose to interpret it.
 
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Dad2ze

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It's the "anti-Duke" part where we disagree. There's no right or wrong, and there's no accounting for how any of us is inclined to see it, but I do think we have at least some control over how we choose to interpret it.
One thing we can agree on is we both hate UNC and here's to another Natty run this year.
 
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