I am an OM fan, and ask this to you all because this is the one and only time atOM (that I can recall) when we hate some factions at OM worse than State fans...the question, layered in some prose: Would you fire Nutt if he was your coach? I think our situations are similar considering how it is playing out this year with ya'll. Both coaches, Nutt and Mullen have proven they can win with talent. It takes solid QB play to win in the SEC. Both teams need talent at several positions these days. I just don't know if a "super coach" or AD exists that can consistently win at our schools without dramatically upgrading talent. Your thoughts?
An honest question....
- Thread starter Confrused
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I am an OM fan, and ask this to you all because this is the one and only time atOM (that I can recall) when we hate some factions at OM worse than State fans...the question, layered in some prose: Would you fire Nutt if he was your coach? I think our situations are similar considering how it is playing out this year with ya'll. Both coaches, Nutt and Mullen have proven they can win with talent. It takes solid QB play to win in the SEC. Both teams need talent at several positions these days. I just don't know if a "super coach" or AD exists that can consistently win at our schools without dramatically upgrading talent. Your thoughts?
Nutt's in year four, and the rise and fall has come under his watch.<div>
</div><div>Mullen's in year three, and while we are sliding from last year, it's not the precipitous drop that the Bears have seen. Mississippi had good teams in his first two years. Now, they are just dreadful.</div><div>
</div><div>If Nutt was our coach and we'd lost nine (and counting) SEC games in a row and three out of four to Vandy, yeah, I'd want him fired. I don't know if we'd have to money to pay that buyout, but I'd prefer him gone.</div>
</div><div>Mullen's in year three, and while we are sliding from last year, it's not the precipitous drop that the Bears have seen. Mississippi had good teams in his first two years. Now, they are just dreadful.</div><div>
</div><div>If Nutt was our coach and we'd lost nine (and counting) SEC games in a row and three out of four to Vandy, yeah, I'd want him fired. I don't know if we'd have to money to pay that buyout, but I'd prefer him gone.</div>
See I asked this question considering ya'lls depth chart too. If Cox continues to get SEC PotW honors and goes pro, along with Ballard etc. How many years do ya'll give DM. The positions at each school are the same right? DM had a team ranked and flopped. If it's worse next yr, which it should be, basically ya'll are in the same position. Are these 6 yr jobs?
the top half of the SEC. Won't happen, doesn't matter how much money you guys spend on a coach or recruits. If we combined, we would still be behind the eight ball compared to the others.
The buck stops at Mullen. When we under-perform, he claims responsibility. We know what he is good at and what he sucks at. Nutt is the king of delegating blame. He seems worse and worse as time goes by because he's able to pass the buck less and less - it's all about perception.
Mullen is good at talking big then talking small.
Nutt is good at lying then making excuses.
Mullen is good at talking big then talking small.
Nutt is good at lying then making excuses.
I watched Greg Byrne's interview on ESPN last night, and all I could think was, "thank you Doc Fogelsong"<span style="font-weight: normal;">3000lbchicken wrote:</span> [/b said:
Then fire Boone and make a point to Dan Jones that Athletics means something to the Alumni. The Administrative mindset is one a Liberal Arts School. While Ole Miss may be mainly a good Liberal Arts college it's in the SEC and in Mississippi. They need to remember they need to keep the Alumni happy.<div>Your references comparing Nutt to Mullen are pretty far off base. While me won't finish the year like most have wanted we'll most likely go to a bowl. Back to back Bowl games is a step up for us lately. And contrary to popular opinion we aren't going to be losing a lot of talent next year.</div>
You are so right ...The situations are errily similar.... both teams losing out of conference games and losing to lower teir SEC teams..... I shudder to think what next year will be like.... I imagine portions of our fanbase will **** themselves and band together to run anti scott stricklin ads in the Starkville paper (cause you know we can't afford to do that in big papers).... I imagine with Mullens buyout we will probably keep him.... he's really about as good as we can hope to get...so really we should give him time.... I know your school has so much more money but we should just agree here to give our coaches a few more years to get things 'straighted out'.... There are more important things than Wins and Losses anyway...Nutt and Mullens are really dedicated....no...'called' to help these kids out and prepare them for the life....and really isn't that what's important? So give Nutt more time and we should follow your leadership example and do the same for Mullens............
1. He's at the end of his career and he doesnt work hardat recruiting. He expects the fanbase to buy the kids.
2. He doesnt have the geographical competitive advantage at Oxford he had at Fayetteville and that translates into less talent as well.
Mullen however is just learning the ropes on head coaching. He has a rep for taking teams toBCS games andan AD that is innovative.
We have no group of fans that are freaking out buying up ads in newspapers, and frankly, that is a byproduct of the money people donate at UM.
But your real problem comes when you do fire him: You just let the people you despise the most know that they can pull out that gun whenever they dont like a head coach.
Dan Jones might be bad for the job but he hit that one on the head.
You've made your bed and **** in it........now lay down and shut up.
We are on our way to better things.
2. He doesnt have the geographical competitive advantage at Oxford he had at Fayetteville and that translates into less talent as well.
Mullen however is just learning the ropes on head coaching. He has a rep for taking teams toBCS games andan AD that is innovative.
We have no group of fans that are freaking out buying up ads in newspapers, and frankly, that is a byproduct of the money people donate at UM.
But your real problem comes when you do fire him: You just let the people you despise the most know that they can pull out that gun whenever they dont like a head coach.
Dan Jones might be bad for the job but he hit that one on the head.
You've made your bed and **** in it........now lay down and shut up.
We are on our way to better things.
Asked an honest question...got a bunch of ******** answers. You guys will have a couple of years like we are having...book it. This was to be ya'lls big year. If not this year, when? Have you even looked at the depth chart? This is about to get bad for ya'll and my question is still, "how many years if this losing in the SEC continues with Mullen?" I'm just realistic about the 2 teams. Just don't know if starting over every 3 to 4 years is the right play at OM or MSU.
he has a fan base that is pissed off because of the direction the School took towards the traditions that made them. Then after they rename you the bears the football team goes in the tank. Now, not only do you have a football team in the tank you have all your fans mad because you have lost your traditions. As long as MSU and your school are in the SEC West a 7 - 5 record is like a 10 - 2 or 11 -1 record in many of the other conferences. As other posters have stated we are only going to get so much talent.
We have to try and make sure to go after that 7 - 5 record or better when we can. We missed with Auburn and SC and will
probably end up 6 - 6. But our tradition is as strong as it has been in many years, our admin is on board, and we have a great coach. Dan has made a couple of bone head mistakes this year but has stepped right up to take the responsibility. Nutt looks to dump on someone else while the admin pushes your old guard away from their traditions. The only way out is to make dramatic changes. New Coach only will not fix the problem. Better do a complete over haul......
We have to try and make sure to go after that 7 - 5 record or better when we can. We missed with Auburn and SC and will
probably end up 6 - 6. But our tradition is as strong as it has been in many years, our admin is on board, and we have a great coach. Dan has made a couple of bone head mistakes this year but has stepped right up to take the responsibility. Nutt looks to dump on someone else while the admin pushes your old guard away from their traditions. The only way out is to make dramatic changes. New Coach only will not fix the problem. Better do a complete over haul......
and now you are being a whiny prick.
The situations are not similar. Our AD doesnt have the reputation of firing decent coaches or hiring ****** ones. Our coach isnt in his latter years riding out a contract, he's trying to build a reputation. Our President isnt dividing our university.
So start over with your "honest" question.
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Edited to add:
The problem at MSU and OM historically is we dont pay better attention to who we hire, nor do we effectively manage them when they come in.
Felker.....wasnt ready to be a head coach.
Brewer was not controled by his AD and he came in with guns pointed at him.
Sherrill would not be controlled by his AD because they didnt like each other from the start.
Cutcliff was the rightman for the job and you just blew that.
Croom seemed like it had it's merits, but again, he wasnt ready to be a coach like Felker
Orgeron.....I dont think I need to say much about that except to say you correctly got rid of him quickly.
Nutt.....seemed like a good hire, but he doesnt care about OMand as a result,doesnt work hard
Mullen.....jury is out. He could lose in the 1st season. He shot the moon in the second. He has to simply keep our team improving. Replace a coach if necessary.
It is inwho you hire for the longterm.
The situations are not similar. Our AD doesnt have the reputation of firing decent coaches or hiring ****** ones. Our coach isnt in his latter years riding out a contract, he's trying to build a reputation. Our President isnt dividing our university.
So start over with your "honest" question.
***********************
Edited to add:
The problem at MSU and OM historically is we dont pay better attention to who we hire, nor do we effectively manage them when they come in.
Felker.....wasnt ready to be a head coach.
Brewer was not controled by his AD and he came in with guns pointed at him.
Sherrill would not be controlled by his AD because they didnt like each other from the start.
Cutcliff was the rightman for the job and you just blew that.
Croom seemed like it had it's merits, but again, he wasnt ready to be a coach like Felker
Orgeron.....I dont think I need to say much about that except to say you correctly got rid of him quickly.
Nutt.....seemed like a good hire, but he doesnt care about OMand as a result,doesnt work hard
Mullen.....jury is out. He could lose in the 1st season. He shot the moon in the second. He has to simply keep our team improving. Replace a coach if necessary.
It is inwho you hire for the longterm.
Confrused said:
but I'll say it another way this time. To me OM's problems are above and beyond the head coach. Fix those issues first. See what happens. Then address the head coach. I wasn't joking about the turf either. Kids don't want to play on turf. It increases injury. $6million for a buyout or $6million for a nice natural grass field? Where would you rather spend your dollar?
MSU is emerging from 10 years in football hell b/c of sanctions, JWS' phoning it in at the end, and of course the gigantic Cluster17 known as the Croom-tanic. We have nothing to build on.
OM many decent years, but questionable micromanaging of the coaching situations have led to more problems than shoulda happened.
If Rev were MSU's coach, I would prolly want one more year to see if your new studs can begin a a shift of titanic-proportions and I'd fight to see Larry Boone fired.
That said, OM's fan-base is way too tied in to the day-to-day operations. Your fans needs to realize its 2011 not 1961, your days of consistent football glory are gone forever-sucked up by 40 years of integration in the SEC. You were kings of the hill, w/a lilly-white team but now things are so different. Your're caught between a rock and hard on, cling to your plantation-era traditions that turn off (many) black athletes or abandon them for stupid stuff like the bear and other boring crap you throw out . Sounds like Mississippi has made the proverbial bed and now has to lie in it.
1) Give Rev Hootie the ultimatum for 2012 bowl or go
2) Fire Pete Templeton now
3) Stop the PC crap, and re-install your traditions. Tell your recruits its traditions, nothing more nothing less
4) Stop thinking of yourselves the way you were in your heyday, those days are done-your entire fanbase needs about 5 good years of losing to create a more humble spirit. All winning does is blow up your ego and set up too high expectations
5) Hire the best Division II, up and comer you can hire if Hootie flames out again.
6) Inform your nutzo, fanbase to chill w/the bumper stickers, slogans, and Rose Bowl expectations...and let the man coach and recruit.
7) Remain humble, you may think LSU not MSU as your rival but LSU will be long-past your sorry asses for a while
OM many decent years, but questionable micromanaging of the coaching situations have led to more problems than shoulda happened.
If Rev were MSU's coach, I would prolly want one more year to see if your new studs can begin a a shift of titanic-proportions and I'd fight to see Larry Boone fired.
That said, OM's fan-base is way too tied in to the day-to-day operations. Your fans needs to realize its 2011 not 1961, your days of consistent football glory are gone forever-sucked up by 40 years of integration in the SEC. You were kings of the hill, w/a lilly-white team but now things are so different. Your're caught between a rock and hard on, cling to your plantation-era traditions that turn off (many) black athletes or abandon them for stupid stuff like the bear and other boring crap you throw out . Sounds like Mississippi has made the proverbial bed and now has to lie in it.
1) Give Rev Hootie the ultimatum for 2012 bowl or go
2) Fire Pete Templeton now
3) Stop the PC crap, and re-install your traditions. Tell your recruits its traditions, nothing more nothing less
4) Stop thinking of yourselves the way you were in your heyday, those days are done-your entire fanbase needs about 5 good years of losing to create a more humble spirit. All winning does is blow up your ego and set up too high expectations
5) Hire the best Division II, up and comer you can hire if Hootie flames out again.
6) Inform your nutzo, fanbase to chill w/the bumper stickers, slogans, and Rose Bowl expectations...and let the man coach and recruit.
7) Remain humble, you may think LSU not MSU as your rival but LSU will be long-past your sorry asses for a while
Whether you "agree" with it or not doesn't change the fact that it's reality for both schools. Mullen has had 1 winning season...possibly 2 if thing go right the rest of the way. Nutt had 2 10 win seasons, and is about to have 2 losing seasons. If I'm right and it gets bad for ya'll the next 2 seasons (check the depth chart...not many studs there, and if Cox goes pro which he should....ouch), then how many seasons do ya'll give Mullen before he's out? My "premise" is about coaching at our respective schools...not the other **** you mentioned. The new "super coach" that we believe we can hire will absolutely be able to win with our Freshman & Sophomore classes in a couple of years. But who couldn't? I just wonder if we shouldn't hang in there with Nutt like ya'll seem content to do with Mullen.
Your post, while written in maroon, is pretty honest. On your last point, MSU and LSU are both rivals. One just happens to be more "storied". We don't make up our history with LSU...ESPN reminds us of it each year. You think I don't get tired of the Cannon run? Having said that, Nutt is 2 -1 against them. The LSU student body introduced the Magnolia Bowl, not us.
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Would you fire Nutt if he was your coach?
The premises, or for you dumbasses that dont know what they are, is that :
"I think our situations are similar considerijng how it is playing out this year with ya'll."
"Nutt and Mullen have proven they can win with talent."
"It takes solid QB play to win in the SEC"
"Both teams need talent at several positions"
Now, for the last 17ing time:
Our situtaion is not similar. You should fire your head coach(or not) based on many things:
You have the issue of his contract and the issue of his failure to have the team ready for last season or last season.
You have the issue of kids constantly getting kicked off and suspended.
You have the issue that he hasnt recruited one kid, besides Cotton that seems like he SHOULD be an SEC calibre qb.
You have the issue that the AD is a lame duck with a poor reputation for who he choses to hire
You have a chancellor who may have to fire his AD, let another come in and clean out the football coaching staff to get new life in.
This is not a good time for Ole Miss. And that is going to go into your decision of whether it is worth making wholesale changes. Not win-loss records.
Now, if you want to say that all other things being equal, what should the standard be to keep or fire a coach at MSU or Ole Miss given how difficult it is to find 'super coach', I say that is all in the AD and the president and the boosters working together to make the right choice.
You cannot hire Felker, Orgeron, Croom, or Brewer and accomplish the long term success you want. You cannot let them do whatever they want.
That is why Byrne and now Strickland have us in a situation that is so much different than yours.
Mullen has more than one year. Nutt probably doesnt have until spring practice.
But it is the decision to rid yourself of Boone that is the most relevant.
</div></div>
You have a question and it is based on premises. The question is:
Would you fire Nutt if he was your coach?
The premises, or for you dumbasses that dont know what they are, is that :
"I think our situations are similar considerijng how it is playing out this year with ya'll."
"Nutt and Mullen have proven they can win with talent."
"It takes solid QB play to win in the SEC"
"Both teams need talent at several positions"
Now, for the last 17ing time:
Our situtaion is not similar. You should fire your head coach(or not) based on many things:
You have the issue of his contract and the issue of his failure to have the team ready for last season or last season.
You have the issue of kids constantly getting kicked off and suspended.
You have the issue that he hasnt recruited one kid, besides Cotton that seems like he SHOULD be an SEC calibre qb.
You have the issue that the AD is a lame duck with a poor reputation for who he choses to hire
You have a chancellor who may have to fire his AD, let another come in and clean out the football coaching staff to get new life in.
This is not a good time for Ole Miss. And that is going to go into your decision of whether it is worth making wholesale changes. Not win-loss records.
Now, if you want to say that all other things being equal, what should the standard be to keep or fire a coach at MSU or Ole Miss given how difficult it is to find 'super coach', I say that is all in the AD and the president and the boosters working together to make the right choice.
You cannot hire Felker, Orgeron, Croom, or Brewer and accomplish the long term success you want. You cannot let them do whatever they want.
That is why Byrne and now Strickland have us in a situation that is so much different than yours.
Mullen has more than one year. Nutt probably doesnt have until spring practice.
But it is the decision to rid yourself of Boone that is the most relevant.
</div></div>
Obviously they'd be walking into a huge rebuilding job full of turmoil caused by the Forward Rebels, Mascot Gate, Current Leadership. And would someone want to stick around if Pete Boone is still there? Would the Administration still not budge on the demands made by Nutt such as instituting a PE major? As much as I'd say fire Nutt the best ya'll would probably be looking at is an up and comer from a small conference or a coordinator type coach. That's a gamble in itself. It really comes down to a once gloried burned out Head Coach vs an unproven upstart. Good luck with that.<div>I think you have to clean house at the top, fire Boone and give Nutt one last year. Get some stability in the Athletic Dept. then go looking for another coach.</div><div>Most likely though none of that will happen, Nutt will lose the Egg Bowl by 30+ and Boone will fire him. Then he'll hire some supposed hot shot nobody, stickers will be printed, reservations in Atlanta will be made, then reality will set in. Like you said it's a 3-4 year cycle in Oxford. As much fun as it was to type that I'm not trying just to make a dig, that's just the recent history with Boone.</div>
first of all, you come to a Bulldog message board known for its posters who just "speak" their mind and you believe every answer is going to be sugar coated with no jabs at your school? Give me a break. The answer to your question has been given by several posters. Some have taken their "jabs". The answer is that you keep Nutt until his contract expires. In the meantime you look at the top to try and determine if Nutt is being micromanaged...if he is then fire the top guy and allow Nutt to coach which is what he is hired to do. Then allow Nutt to complete his contract that you gave him; if he does not perform during the remaining term of his contract you find another coach. Without taking any shots at your school, I disagree that our programs are similar. If you are looking for a "respectful" answer, this is about as close to that as you will get on this board. If you are looking for answers to which you take shots by responding in a negative light at Mullen and his program then you have those, too.
let the new AD hire the coach...get someone young with great people skills and a knack for marketing...make us sweat and we'll make ya'll sweat...that's the making of a future of 'healthy respect'...
fogelsong was the best thing that happened to us...we thought we'd like him, but we didn't...he shook things up and got rid of LT...brought in a young gun AD and he shook up the athletic dept...
more than half the upig fans hated nutt before he left...that's not good, cause they're around to grumble and moan and set off this...i tried to think nutt was a good hire, but now i see that the upig fans were at least half right...i live in the memphis area and there a lots of upigs here that try to kill any nice talk of nutt...not healthy!
good luck...the 'furball' will get worse before it gets better...and getting better starts at the top...
fogelsong was the best thing that happened to us...we thought we'd like him, but we didn't...he shook things up and got rid of LT...brought in a young gun AD and he shook up the athletic dept...
more than half the upig fans hated nutt before he left...that's not good, cause they're around to grumble and moan and set off this...i tried to think nutt was a good hire, but now i see that the upig fans were at least half right...i live in the memphis area and there a lots of upigs here that try to kill any nice talk of nutt...not healthy!
good luck...the 'furball' will get worse before it gets better...and getting better starts at the top...
As to tell me where on our deoth chart will be "so weak"...granted, there will be some question marks as there always are with our squads but it is safe to say that there will be fewer question marks than going into this season...the major talent drop-off for State was this year, but maybe you missed that...
Now, as far as your question, about the only way to fix your problem is to clean house. And even that might prove to be only a quick fix. Hell look at Boone's numbers during his tenure vs other ADs that yall have had...even your beat writer posted graphs of it everywhere showing that he's the best yall have had in a good while. Truly, the problem seems to run deeper than just firing and hiring
Now, as far as your question, about the only way to fix your problem is to clean house. And even that might prove to be only a quick fix. Hell look at Boone's numbers during his tenure vs other ADs that yall have had...even your beat writer posted graphs of it everywhere showing that he's the best yall have had in a good while. Truly, the problem seems to run deeper than just firing and hiring
State's scheduling lends itself to a bowl game without much effort. Just win 2 SEC games (hopefully like 2011) and we go bowling. Your scheduling does not . We don't have Texas or Boise State on the schedule in the next couple of years.
Short of having some playmakers emerge or some ready to play JUCO players to fill in some critical needs, state won't be any better next year, but there's no reason for state to get worse next year. It will probably be another team that will go 5-7 if it ***** the bed in the wrong game or 7-5 if it shows up for the right games. Not where State hoped to be after last year, but not surprising looking at the holes Mullen was left with on the O-line and what happened with his first two full recruiting classes. Mullen needs to step up his recruiting, but as long as the O-linemen that he's recruited are serviceable, he's not exactly about to see his talent drop off a cliff.Confrused said: