Personally, I’m fully prepared to give him another year, provided he makes some much needed changes in his recruiting AND coaching tactics. What he’s been doing worked great for about 6 years. Things change. He needs to change as well. Another season remotely similar to this one and he will be gone whether he’s fired or quits under the extreme pressure he will face. And you can be assured that if next year is a failure the powder keg will blow. We’ll see how it goes.
An Olive Branch...
- Thread starter revcort
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while I could be completely wrong, I think Toppin has more upside than Brooks based on play this year.
I'd like to have both return, if I had to choose, I'd choose Toppin.
I'd like to have both return, if I had to choose, I'd choose Toppin.
I agree. Brooks just looked like he‘d rather be somewhere else most of the time. He didn’t seem to be fully engaged at all. Toppin always brought energy and enthusiasm.
I’d choose Toppin in a heartbeat
I just don’t see it with Brooks for whatever reason. Just plain ain’t that good. Toppin much higher ceiling.
I just don’t see it with Brooks for whatever reason. Just plain ain’t that good. Toppin much higher ceiling.
Here’s the deal. If Cal wants to continue to try to end generational poverty and be a pimp for the NBA, he needs to go elsewhere. Seriously, if those are his goals, he needs to coach somewhere other than UK. UK plays for titles, not NBA draft picks.
The only thing about that is that I don’t think he could pull off the OAD successfully, like he has in the past, at a different school IMO. The Kentucky Effect is real. Either way, that model is broken.
The fanbase has reached its breaking point with the whole OAD BS. Cal is going to have to let that go or just let go of coaching at UK. At this juncture I don’t think he can have both anymore.
The only thing about that is that I don’t think he could pull off the OAD successfully, like he has in the past, at a different school IMO. The Kentucky Effect is real. Either way, that model is broken.
The fanbase has reached its breaking point with the whole OAD BS. Cal is going to have to let that go or just let go of coaching at UK. At this juncture I don’t think he can have both anymore.
I said in an earlier thread that my litmus test for Cal keeping his job is the off-season. I believe my exact quote was "if we see another mass exodus, I want Cal driving the g-league/transfer bus taking them out of town"
I agree about Brooks. He looked very engaged in that Florida game when he first returned, but not so much after that. I'm not sure what the issue was exactly. I'll take them both but I agree Toppin appears to have more upside. If Brooks comes back, he needs to come back with that eye of the Tiger kind of approach that PJ Washington came back with in 2018-19. I think Brooks could be a great player if his heart is fully into it.
Because they refuse to look at the big picture. Cal has seduced them into his way of thinking. They are afraid of the unknown with a new coach. Some of the excuses they come up with is really just laughable. They say this year was an anomaly, I submit it is the result of a symptom that has been brewing several years. There are posters here that defended Tubby till the last day he was here. And Tubby never trashed the fans, he just stopped recruiting and refused to upgrade his staff.
While I respect others opinions on Cal, I have a hard time understanding how they just pass off how Cal conducted himself this year.
right or wrong, Brooks was supposed to come in and replace PJ Washington as the frontcourt anchor on the team. I'm sure he tried but perhaps he is another casualty of the one and done - a returning OAD in the mold of Washington was going to lead the team on the court. He also seemed to have some additional burdens like being trotted out as the team leader to face the press , I think after the UNC loss, when there was essentially a player meltdown going on in the locker room.
I'll close out that I think Brooks had alot on his mind in regards to being a UK player outside the gym.
Brooks can be that lunch pail guy, glue guy. He can rebound with the best of them, especially for his size. He has very good attributes. He was just lost on offense and defense both this season. Could’ve really used good offensive production and sound defense from him this year.
I agree. After what we just experienced with the worst season of all our lifetimes, a mass exodus right now would be the death knell for Cal. Ask not for whom the bell tolls- it tolls for thee. I would completely understand if the fanbase just revolted if all these players leave after this debacle of a season. Truly, Clarke and Boston are not even close to ready, but I am not surprised they have left. They were leaving when they walked in. That kind of thinking must end.
This is exactly what my source told me about Brooks. He wants to be somewhere else. He just wasn’t into it here.
wtf?!?!! that’s disheartening
It showed an inability to learn from his mistakes...Skal #2
He was sure terrible at the end of the season.I wonder what his problem is because Cal gave him plenty of playing time?
Doesn't like playing at an arena named after a man he personally defamed.
Sounds to me like KB felt out of place here, as in Kentucky/Lexington. He was having issues on the court, but more off the court; and didn’t deal well with other **** that was going on around him. Overall, just not happy overall. Maybe the whole “arena name” issue was a starting point. But more so how he was perceived immediately after and how Cal walked back his support. But my guy told me KB loves Cal, it’s not a Cal problem.
I’m not gonna attempt to know that. Could be something along those lines? Don’t know. But you could see the kid seemed disengaged at times. I watched him on the bench.
That the can’t fill it up? More turnovers then assists? No defense other then trailing the guy that went by you.
Well four have already left and I still think at least two more leave. How many have to leave before you see a problem? None should have left , none ready to go pro, and Cal has still not addressed all the transfers that leave. Look what Juzang is doing with PT and coaching. Had he stayed here, he would played backup to Clark and Boston.
Allen had two good games, recall BJ had a few games he made 5 or 6 threes too, it’s not as cut and dry as you’d like it to be, your prognosticating goggles aren’t anymore valuable than Cal’s. Cal thought with the minutes BJ would have been an overall better asset than Dontaie. After the first MissSt game Dontaie got plenty of opportunities and looked lost again.
9-16 with the #1 recruiting class. Come on, keep up.
Dontaie didn’t look lost after the Miss St game, he just wasn’t forcing shots (like BJ) when the entire defense was hedging towards him and he maintained a high 3 pt % despite being our only spot up shooter who got 1 or 2 set screen plays a game if he was lucky.
As I recall he shot like 4/7 from 3 in his last game with 20+ minutes before the last game of the year. Then Cal pulled his minutes because BJ started finally looking decent (how’d that work out) and he wasn’t willing to move Mintz to the PG to get Askew out of the lineup. Also Cal started telling Dontaie to shoot regardless of whether it felt right (what a dumb piece of advice).
In the end, Dontaie needs to focus on his stamina and fitness this offseason, because he’ll have to run all over the court all game long to get an open look in Cal’s offensive scheme.
but it is Clarke (who didn't play); hence unproven.... Boston who the majority did not want to play (still unproven)....Fletcher (unproven) and Isaiah (1st rounder, and will be missed)
So we would still be full of unproven players... I'm hoping for improvement by subtraction of poor attitudes
I disagree he didn't look lost, he was totally unsure of himself after that. If I was coach I would have played him more too but I just disagree it was easy to see that was the correct move.
I don't see how HC achieves the change.
Questions:
1. How does he strike the balance between the "touch & go" OAD guys, and the lunch pail, team first, develop your craft over 3-4 years guys?
2. Who gets the minutes....the OADers expecting to be able to showcase for the NBA as freshmen or the long term players who will need to develop to ultimately serve as jr/sr continuity or "glue" to the team?
3. What happens when OADers don't pan out....how do you sell them on down-checking to the lunch-pail model & staying instead of throwing the dice at draft day or transferring.
4. How do you incentivize the lunch pail, multi-year players to not hit the transfer portal, when they're riding the bench for an OAD flavor of the month who has eyes on draft day to the exclusion of all else?
I just don't see how he can recruit players (elite or otherwise) to form a cohesive team with this type of hybrid model complete with the infighting that would follow.
The only solution I see is for him go all the way to the "team-first" model and say to recruits "we expect you to stay for years and compete for championships because we are Kentucky & championships are the currency of the realm in the Commonwealth"....and then for him to act "shocked" when a player announces for the draft after one or two years. Not likely IMHO.
I don't think there is another model besides OAD in HC's makeup. I hope I am wrong.
GBB!
Questions:
1. How does he strike the balance between the "touch & go" OAD guys, and the lunch pail, team first, develop your craft over 3-4 years guys?
2. Who gets the minutes....the OADers expecting to be able to showcase for the NBA as freshmen or the long term players who will need to develop to ultimately serve as jr/sr continuity or "glue" to the team?
3. What happens when OADers don't pan out....how do you sell them on down-checking to the lunch-pail model & staying instead of throwing the dice at draft day or transferring.
4. How do you incentivize the lunch pail, multi-year players to not hit the transfer portal, when they're riding the bench for an OAD flavor of the month who has eyes on draft day to the exclusion of all else?
I just don't see how he can recruit players (elite or otherwise) to form a cohesive team with this type of hybrid model complete with the infighting that would follow.
The only solution I see is for him go all the way to the "team-first" model and say to recruits "we expect you to stay for years and compete for championships because we are Kentucky & championships are the currency of the realm in the Commonwealth"....and then for him to act "shocked" when a player announces for the draft after one or two years. Not likely IMHO.
I don't think there is another model besides OAD in HC's makeup. I hope I am wrong.
GBB!
We have had OAD players, I believe that Cal should be a OAD coach!!
You have next year and then you are gone unless UK is the number one priority, contend for SEC championship, 20+ wins, in the NCAA tournament, you find an offense, and quit your madman antics on the sideline. Your players are tense and your screaming is not coaching. One more, I have some inbound plays that I will send to you, just ask.
We know your old, not a robot, this is hard, and you like your team etc, but no excuses will be tolerated
You have next year and then you are gone unless UK is the number one priority, contend for SEC championship, 20+ wins, in the NCAA tournament, you find an offense, and quit your madman antics on the sideline. Your players are tense and your screaming is not coaching. One more, I have some inbound plays that I will send to you, just ask.
We know your old, not a robot, this is hard, and you like your team etc, but no excuses will be tolerated
Can Cal change? I am not familiar with his history. His mouth dug a deep hole.
The OAD is dead, the gleague is the dagger to finally do it in . It was a mirage. Our championship team had a generational player AD, the ultimate team player MKG, a great returning shooting guard , a returning power forward who could score or get the “man” rebounds and a versatile senior sixth man. A very desirable and rare combination for a OAD coach.
Cal has had other talented teams and Coach K has had loaded teams, but they have all fallen short.
The OAD is dead, the gleague is the dagger to finally do it in . It was a mirage. Our championship team had a generational player AD, the ultimate team player MKG, a great returning shooting guard , a returning power forward who could score or get the “man” rebounds and a versatile senior sixth man. A very desirable and rare combination for a OAD coach.
Cal has had other talented teams and Coach K has had loaded teams, but they have all fallen short.
We already have 4 players gone off a 9-16 team with a long way to go until June.
Yet Cal fans say he deserves another season to fix this.
When we are a mid pack SEC team that will be lucky to be a NCAAT bubble team next season the Cal fans will say give him another year.
Our program is trash right now plain and simple.
Yet Cal fans say he deserves another season to fix this.
When we are a mid pack SEC team that will be lucky to be a NCAAT bubble team next season the Cal fans will say give him another year.
Our program is trash right now plain and simple.
Well said. Getting offended is a choice .Not offended. Have a good day.
What I get from "real world" interactions (meaning, live and not on the internet, which isn't even a real place I don't think), is that any fans that have left the program didn't do so over OAD. To be sure, folks are definitely tired of it, it doesn't produce like it did and all you have left are (present year excepted) good but not great teams with near total roster turnover. Not appetizing. The people that have left, who have said I'm done with UK basketball until Calipari leaves - and I don't think that's a significant percentage, by the way - are the ones mad about kneeling/social justice issues.
And I'm not sure what there is to do about that, can't put the genie back in the bottle.
Point 2. Let's assume none of the assumptions I see about Cal here are true - let's assume he's not stubborn, arrogant, resistant to change, etc. Moving from a OAD model to something more traditional will be very difficult. I've said this before - I always worried about the next guy after Cal. Cal retires, the recruits decommit, all returning players leave early. The next guy is in a world of hurt, and likely for several years. Now we're faced with changing mid-stream. How do you do that, exactly, and not have a period of, well, bad teams? How do you get from here to there.
I don't really entertain serious thoughts of wanting Calipari gone. First ballot Hall of Famer, coach of the decade, yada yada. He ain't leaving until he's ready (just like K, Roy, Izzo, etc.), so I don't even think about it.....
And I'm not sure what there is to do about that, can't put the genie back in the bottle.
Point 2. Let's assume none of the assumptions I see about Cal here are true - let's assume he's not stubborn, arrogant, resistant to change, etc. Moving from a OAD model to something more traditional will be very difficult. I've said this before - I always worried about the next guy after Cal. Cal retires, the recruits decommit, all returning players leave early. The next guy is in a world of hurt, and likely for several years. Now we're faced with changing mid-stream. How do you do that, exactly, and not have a period of, well, bad teams? How do you get from here to there.
I don't really entertain serious thoughts of wanting Calipari gone. First ballot Hall of Famer, coach of the decade, yada yada. He ain't leaving until he's ready (just like K, Roy, Izzo, etc.), so I don't even think about it.....
So, not a big student of statistics and necessary sample sizes in order to draw meaningful conclusions I see.
9-16 is the only statistic and meaningful conclusion I need to see to know what Cal did this season didn’t work. How about the one game, the last game of the season mind you, that Mintz started at PG we beat an SEC team by almost 30 points.
One year removed from 25-6 and a conference title and the "program is trash". Are you brain dead, honestly. Have you been huffing gas or cooking meth in the hollar too long?
2 years ago the coach of Kentucky had to ask fans to start coming to games at Rupp. Has that happened in your lifetime?
That was well before kneeling and if we aren't selling out Rupp, then what number defines significant?
I don't understand where you are drawing your conclusions
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To be more current we are 3 weeks removed from 9-16 . But you dont care , you are a TROLL . PS dont forget to respond under the correct user name !!! [roll] [roll] [roll] [roll] [roll] [roll]
Worst season in 100 years. We reaped the reward of the conference being pretty down last season. We would’ve flamed out early in the NCAAT as the wheels were coming off with Hagan’s.
Cal tells everyone this is a “players first” program and they are definitely controlling it.
We just went 9-16 so yes we are trash!!!!
Things will not get better under Cal because he is a below average bench coach who’s offense is very outdated. And the elite recruits are spread out now.
if you follow Coach K, and you can decide for yourself if you think Cal is on par as a coach with Coach K, then he has had some up and down cycles, but in the 90's he helmed a dynasty at Duke which means that even with a full out fan revolt he wasn't going anywhere unless he wanted to, and sure enough, after a long dry spell by Duke standards he brought them back to the promised land and cemented his reputation.
Now what Coach K did to bring them back and what it cost him ethically and personally is also a topic for a different debate.
Roy Williams in similar fashion, after 2 championships in less than a decade, go look at the UNC board and see how the fans feel about him at the moment - its respectful but its also about his string running out and looking for a replacement. Will Roy bring UNC back, most likely yes, but he, like Duke was for awhile is in the midst a dry spell.
I believe Cal can bring Kentucky back, I really do, but its not going to happen in a time frame any of us will tolerate, even the ardent supporters are saying he's gotta perform next year, and honestly, like Coach K, I'm not sure we'll accept what its going to cost us ethically and professionally to get back there if we did give him that time. Oh sure, Duke fans loved him having Zion and company, but they wouldn't have had the NCAA actually paid attention to what it took to get them there like they did at Kansas , LSU and Arizona.
Its not shaping up to be a breakout season next year, at the moment we're all concerned that we might not show much improvement at all. Cal knows what is at stake.
Now what Coach K did to bring them back and what it cost him ethically and personally is also a topic for a different debate.
Roy Williams in similar fashion, after 2 championships in less than a decade, go look at the UNC board and see how the fans feel about him at the moment - its respectful but its also about his string running out and looking for a replacement. Will Roy bring UNC back, most likely yes, but he, like Duke was for awhile is in the midst a dry spell.
I believe Cal can bring Kentucky back, I really do, but its not going to happen in a time frame any of us will tolerate, even the ardent supporters are saying he's gotta perform next year, and honestly, like Coach K, I'm not sure we'll accept what its going to cost us ethically and professionally to get back there if we did give him that time. Oh sure, Duke fans loved him having Zion and company, but they wouldn't have had the NCAA actually paid attention to what it took to get them there like they did at Kansas , LSU and Arizona.
Its not shaping up to be a breakout season next year, at the moment we're all concerned that we might not show much improvement at all. Cal knows what is at stake.
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