An Olive Branch...

[Lempface]

The point is that when Allen made mistakes he was benched.Boston was allowed to be terrible with no punishment.The double standard is what frustrates me about Cal.He has his favorites for sure.

It’s not favorites, there was a reason Boston was ranked higher, Cal plays the guys he thinks will perform best at the end of the season given the most minutes. If he drops some games early he is okay with it if the minutes contribute to the growth of who he thinks gives the team the best chance in March. It’s how he has always done it,

 

[bookerfan66]

It’s not favorites, there was a reason Boston was ranked higher, Cal plays the guys he thinks will perform best at the end of the season given the most minutes. If he drops some games early he is okay with it if the minutes contribute to the growth of who he thinks gives the team the best chance in March. It’s how he has always done it,

Well he should have rethought it this season after how bad Boston was.Cal is so set in his ways even when it kills UK.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

It’s not favorites, there was a reason Boston was ranked higher, Cal plays the guys he thinks will perform best at the end of the season given the most minutes. If he drops some games early he is okay with it if the minutes contribute to the growth of who he thinks gives the team the best chance in March. It’s how he has always done it,

Rankings mean absolutely nothing. Literally not a damn thing. Also, we needed to win games immediately or we weren’t making a tournament.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Both were feast or famine, you’re saying this with hindsight. Boston was definitely the better defender of the two, even if he wasn’t great.

No, I said this all season long. Check my posts. Boston was not the better defender. I refuse to believe that.

 

[Lempface]

No, I said this all season long. Check my posts. Boston was not the better defender. I refuse to believe that.

Multiple times a game I saw Dontaie scrambling to find his man, Boston at least knew where to be.

 

[yabbadabbadoo_rivals213851]

Boston never looked nearly as lost on defense as Dontaie did, he never seemed to struggle dribbling like Dontaie did. Fact is Boston did everything better than Dontaie, that’s why he played more. He wasn’t great at literally anything but he was better than Dontaie. Look, I love Dontaie and am stoked he is back and since he’s a Kentucky kid I hope he becomes an all time favorite, his first Miss St performance is one of my all time favorite UK memories. But, I don’t fault Cal for giving the minutes to Boston.

Sorry but that’s just ********

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Multiple times a game I saw Dontaie scrambling to find his man, Boston at least knew where to be.

 

[Lempface]

Rankings mean absolutely nothing. Literally not a damn thing. Also, we needed to win games immediately or we weren’t making a tournament.

If they mean nothing let’s not recruit anyone in the top 300, sure we can get a few diamonds in the rough no?

 

[yabbadabbadoo_rivals213851]

Multiple times a game I saw Dontaie scrambling to find his man, Boston at least knew where to be.

More ********

 

[Cowtown Cat]

These Cal apologists will go down with the ship to defend him. It’s completely baffling.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

If they mean nothing let’s not recruit anyone in the top 300, sure we can get a few diamonds in the rough no?

They don’t mean anything. You put Boston in the state of Kentucky to play HS ball and he’s ranked about where Dontaie was. He’s most definitely not top 10.

 

[revcort]

Well he should have rethought it this season after how bad Boston was.Cal is so set in his ways even when it kills UK.

Not to argue, but I think some of the players and minutes issues are legitimate and some are overblown. No doubt, Boston hurt the team in multiple games because he couldn't make shots. And I agree Allen should have been given more minutes earlier than the 1st Miss St game. I also agree that, generally speaking, Cal sticks with the 5-star guys more and gives them more leash.

But there are some legitimate reasons Cal does this which, though some may not like it or agree with it, make sense. As others have said, there is usually a reason 5-star guys have those ratings. They have more potential and more natural gifts and abilities than others. In most seasons, and especially in a season like this year, the team simply can't come close to its potential if those guys don't meet some of their potential. So, Cal is thinking long term gain over short term gain at times. We can argue the merits of that philosophy til the cows come home. I would say you can think long term so long as you're winning games. But when the 5-star guys are costing you wins, you have to play the line-up that will help you win today. I'm sure it's a struggle when dealing with the fragile psyches of 18 and 19-year old kids who think they are the next Kobe.

 

[KyFaninNC]

It’s not favorites, there was a reason Boston was ranked higher, Cal plays the guys he thinks will perform best at the end of the season given the most minutes. If he drops some games early he is okay with it if the minutes contribute to the growth of who he thinks gives the team the best chance in March. It’s how he has always done it,

You realize what you just said? Cal gives the minutes to 5 stars even if it means we lose some games. Are you ok with accepting losses just to give some players more minutes?

 

[Lempface]

They don’t mean anything. You put Boston in the state of Kentucky to play HS ball and he’s ranked about where Dontaie was. He’s most definitely not top 10.

Except he was, universally by every single recruiting service. There is a reason he’s going to be drafted or signed to a free agent contract and Dontaie will still be at UK. You can disagree with Cal’s approach, but his approach wasn’t **** Dontaie I’m playing BJ regardless.

 

[gojvc]

No, I said this all season long. Check my posts. Boston was not the better defender. I refuse to believe that.

With his physical attributes Boston looked like he ought to be the better defender. But that’s where it stopped. He didn’t suck any less on defense than anybody else did.

 

[Wildcats1st]

The olive branch wasn't on behalf of Calipari. It was from me to those who are ready for him to leave today. My intent was to focus on where we can agree and to promote some peace on the board. I do agree with you that we need to see changes.

considering the season we just had this board is pretty peaceful. I don’t see a lot of bickering most people agree to some degree and we have zero choice whether cal stays or goes at this point. There is actually more disdain between fans when we lose to a team we shouldn’t in a big ncaat game. I’m ready for him to leave today, there’s nothing I can do about it.

The division point is with cal. It’s how he’s worked to develop a loyal group of folllowers to the detriment of the program. It’s how he’s called out his critics over the years with a certain hubris, zero humility. It’s how he tore at the fan base this season, it’s how he had basketball players, kids playing for a state school take a divisive political stance. I think when people defend cal after this atrocious season, program loyal fans take offense. You can say let’s wait and see but right now in this moment it’s very perilous for cal because of his actions.

barneys butt is on the line too make no mistake. They may ask him to voluntarily leave after this nightmare he created

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Except he was, universally by every single recruiting service. There is a reason he’s going to be drafted or signed to a free agent contract and Dontaie will still be at UK. You can disagree with Cal’s approach, but his approach wasn’t **** Dontaie I’m playing BJ regardless.

Did any of that BS you just posted help UK win games?

 

[Cowtown Cat]

If they mean nothing let’s not recruit anyone in the top 300, sure we can get a few diamonds in the rough no?

Dontaie climbed into the top 50 before he was injured. Let’s not pretend those two injuries didn’t set the kid back substantially. Top 50 from the state of Kentucky is damn good. That was basically from his performance at one event.

 

[Lempface]

Did any of that BS you just posted help UK win games?

Nah, we sucked this year, but Cal went with the guy who didn’t get spun around trying to locate who he was supposed to defend and allocated the minutes to what he felt was the best prospect to improve the most over the season and give us the chance to do something. If Boston played none and DA got all his minutes I don’t think the season would have gone much differently. The problem wasn’t scoring from that position, the main problem was PG. I’ll say it again, if I was coach I would have started to play Dontaie more earlier on, but I don’t think it was unreasonable for coach to stick with BJ, if we didn’t develop a super star the season wasn’t going anywhere anyway.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Nah, we sucked this year, but Cal went with the guy who didn’t get spun around trying to locate who he was supposed to defend and allocated the minutes to what he felt was the best prospect to improve the most over the season and give us the chance to do something. If Boston played none and DA got all his minutes I don’t think the season would have gone much differently. The problem wasn’t scoring from that position, the main problem was PG. I’ll say it again, if I was coach I would have started to play Dontaie more earlier on, but I don’t think it was unreasonable for coach to stick with BJ, if we didn’t develop a super star the season wasn’t going anywhere anyway.

Lol so he played the guy that was soft as Charmin and got taken to the bucket every single time someone drove. Makes sense. I’ll say it again, DA wasn’t any worse than Boston or anyone else defensively on this past team.

Our problem was PG and scoring points. Nevermind the position, we couldn’t score enough. One of the main reasons the season didn’t go anywhere was because he stuck with Boston. That and he didn’t move Mintz to PG til the season was almost over.

 

[preacherfan]

Ehh, maybe. One side more than the other for sure tho.

I guess we see it the way most people do. Everyone thinks their side is not as nasty as the other side. I was even asked by one Cal critic why I was even on this board.

So much for tolerance! LOL Of course, the ideas of diversity and tolerance in our society is a complete joke from sports to politics. The most intolerant people in the world are those who proclaim it the most.

 

[jc2010]

It’s not favorites, there was a reason Boston was ranked higher, Cal plays the guys he thinks will perform best at the end of the season given the most minutes. If he drops some games early he is okay with it if the minutes contribute to the growth of who he thinks gives the team the best chance in March. It’s how he has always done it,

It’s the way he has always done it and it is why everyone leaves and a large portion of the fanbase stays PO’d.

It is very hard to sit and watch others get to play thru mistakes you get benched for. Why would you want to come back for more of the same.

As a fan I get tired of listening to the same old lame excuses for it. Its BS to have a weak schedule to prop them up, who wants invest the time and money to watch UK play these sorry teams? Even worse, losing to them

 

[KYCAT78]

I’m all for backing Cal but I’m a UK fan first not a player fan first. I think he can turn it around but he has said many things that have bothered people for him to get back to where he was 6 years ago

He might turn it around with superior talent but it will not be with his ability to coach.

 

[kyjeff1]

I agree. Brooks just looked like he‘d rather be somewhere else most of the time. He didn’t seem to be fully engaged at all. Toppin always brought energy and enthusiasm.

I wonder if some of the players were a bit pissed off at the special treatment Boston, Clarke and Askew got.
We know Fletcher was pissed about it, but I would have to believe guys like Brooks and Allen were a little confused and upset by it.
What Cal did with playing time this year, is the exact thing that causes major problems in the locker room.
We saw it all year, BJB and Askew should never have been on the court for more than 8 (Askew) or 15 (BJB) minutes, but they played big minutes, even as they tore down any chance UK had to win games. That couldn't have sat well with the guys that sat on the bench.
I think Mintz is a very positive person and I have to believe, if it wasn't for him, this team would have been even worse.
Hopefully the players that haven't declared, all come back, I think the biggest problems have left the building. Cal needs to play his best players, not the guys who have potential to be good later on.

 

[kyjeff1]

This is exactly what my source told me about Brooks. He wants to be somewhere else. He just wasn’t into it here.

Well, this is where we will see if Cal is going to truly change.
Prior to now, a guy like Brooks would be 100% gone. Cal always had some hs kid coming in that could replace him and it seems like Cal didn’t care if the current player stayed or left.
Cal needs to work hard on player retention and it needs to start right now with Brooks, Toppin, Mintz, Ware etc… this is the biggest, most important thing he needs to change.

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

Doesn't like playing at an arena named after a man he personally defamed.

The arena drama is ridiculous.

 

[John Henry]

Calipari has been here for 10 years and is a shell of the man who arrived from Memphis. He literally got fat and lazy and has the program in the ditch. It is time for him to move on, maybe even get out of coaching and let a coach who is energetic, innovative and hungry take over this program.

I see no way Caliapri can fix it. And believe you me if a program needs fixing it is the University of Kentucky. Sutton, Tubby and BCG all left the program in better shape than Calipari has it now.

Calipari did something none of the above mentioned coaches did and that is, he lost a huge portion of the fan base. How many, who knows? I guess we will find out once the politicians reopen society. UK needs help and needs it now.

 

[kyjeff1]

Yeah, he played mind games with him by giving him 32 minutes the very next game, 22 minutes the game after that where he scored 6 points, 24 minutes against Bama the next game for 8 points, 23 minutes against Auburn after that for 8 points, 23 minutes after that against UGA for 3 points, 15 minutes against LSU for 6 points after that, 24 minutes against Bama for 12 points, before his minutes finally fell to 7 against Mizzou.

I love the kid, I really do but he got ample opportunity after his break out performance and slipped away each game after that, offsetting any scoring by looking completely lost on D.

I’m so glad he’s back though because I have the utmost confidence in him to be a beast in the long term, just being realistic here.

So wait, why are Allen's expectations set higher than everyone else's? Are you thinking he has to get 15ppg every time he steps on the court? You sound like Cal, attack the bench player, but give the nba prospect a free pass.

You said BJB was better at every aspect of the game, that is 100% false. I don't know where to find the stats, but I will be willing to bet that, with the exception of maybe 5 games, Boston was a net - player when he was on the court. He single handedly cost UK 6 games right at the beginning of the season and several in SEC play.

Most important game of the season was the last game (Mississippi state). Check BJB's stat line. Zero points in 23 minutes.

Most of the season, he got his 12ppg, but his shooting stats were usually in the 4-13 range, but you're trying to say he was a better player than DA, who can break a game wide open by himself. Did BJ ever take a game over?

 

[kyjeff1]

I have viewed John Calipari as the poster boy for many of the shortcomings in the college game that more and more folks seem willing to acknowledge.

The guy is a bull shite artist. I've seen it mentioned here that some folks get tired of people using one-liners on this forum; yet, John Calipari has been the king of hyperbolic one-liners and bull spit to the fan base since the day he took the job.

The symptoms you see at UK and elsewhere in men's college basketball---John Calipari is firmly entrenched as having championed the causes that led to those symptoms.

Based on those I hear from outside of this forum, there are a lot more folks who grew tired of John Calipari's act years ago than one gets wind of here.

I do have a question, and I'm not trying to be coy:

I see many posts saying that John Calipari has "earned" the right to try to turn it around, or he "deserves" it. From my viewpoint, I'm at a loss as to what he's done to have "earned" or "deserve" a right to continue to cause damage to the University and the men's basketball program?

He's won a lot of games. He won a national championship while coaching at UK (4 other coaches have done that at UK). I understand that, but hasn't he been paid very well to do just that?

Isn't that why he's been the highest paid coach in the game of college basketball? When a person is paid very well to produce, when they do produce, that was all part of the expectations that were set for the job in the first place. That was part of the bargain.

When they don't produce to the level of expectations, and have even been causing damage to the brand, is it not reasonable to say: that's it, enough is enough.

What has John Calipari done for the University of Kentucky that he hasn't been compensated very well for already?

I view John Calipari as part of the problem, not as part of the solution. I'm completely fine that others do not share my point of view.

Nick Saban's salary: 9.1 million
John Calipari's salary: 9.27 million

Makes no sense

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

So wait, why are Allen's expectations set higher than everyone else's? Are you thinking he has to get 15ppg every time he steps on the court? You sound like Cal, attack the bench player, but give the nba prospect a free pass.

You said BJB was better at every aspect of the game, that is 100% false. I don't know where to find the stats, but I will be willing to bet that, with the exception of maybe 5 games, Boston was a net - player when he was on the court. He single handedly cost UK 6 games right at the beginning of the season and several in SEC play.

Most important game of the season was the last game (Mississippi state). Check BJB's stat line. Zero points in 23 minutes.

Most of the season, he got his 12ppg, but his shooting stats were usually in the 4-13 range, but you're trying to say he was a better player than DA, who can break a game wide open by himself. Did BJ ever take a game over?

It’s a fascinating conundrum. To me at least. The staunch Calipari defenders are unable to criticize or find any fault in decisions by John Calipari whatsoever regardless of obvious facts and numbers. It’s truly weird. I don’t get it.

 

[kyjeff1]

It’s not favorites, there was a reason Boston was ranked higher, Cal plays the guys he thinks will perform best at the end of the season given the most minutes. If he drops some games early he is okay with it if the minutes contribute to the growth of who he thinks gives the team the best chance in March. It’s how he has always done it,

Name another program in the country that is "okay with losing games" at any point?
This is mind boggling to me. This is UK basketball, losing games for the benefit of one player is complete crap.
That’s what practice is for. That’s when you work on your game.
Cal has always said "you earn it in practice", yet here we are. It’s a double standard.
I don’t care what you say, losing games because you're trying to get 1 guy going, is ridiculous and I can't believe there are, so called, UK fans that think that kind of crap is okay.

 

[kyjeff1]

Multiple times a game I saw Dontaie scrambling to find his man, Boston at least knew where to be.

Sorry, this is a crap take. I never saw Allen as lost as you guys make him out to be.
Newsflash, in Cal's defense, you're always scrambling to get back to your man, we play help defense that is constantly switching.

 

[John Henry]

I have viewed John Calipari as the poster boy for many of the shortcomings in the college game that more and more folks seem willing to acknowledge.

The guy is a bull shite artist. I've seen it mentioned here that some folks get tired of people using one-liners on this forum; yet, John Calipari has been the king of hyperbolic one-liners and bull spit to the fan base since the day he took the job.

The symptoms you see at UK and elsewhere in men's college basketball---John Calipari is firmly entrenched as having championed the causes that led to those symptoms.

Based on those I hear from outside of this forum, there are a lot more folks who grew tired of John Calipari's act years ago than one gets wind of here.

I do have a question, and I'm not trying to be coy:

I see many posts saying that John Calipari has "earned" the right to try to turn it around, or he "deserves" it. From my viewpoint, I'm at a loss as to what he's done to have "earned" or "deserve" a right to continue to cause damage to the University and the men's basketball program?

He's won a lot of games. He won a national championship while coaching at UK (4 other coaches have done that at UK). I understand that, but hasn't he been paid very well to do just that?

Isn't that why he's been the highest paid coach in the game of college basketball? When a person is paid very well to produce, when they do produce, that was all part of the expectations that were set for the job in the first place. That was part of the bargain.

When they don't produce to the level of expectations, and have even been causing damage to the brand, is it not reasonable to say: that's it, enough is enough.

What has John Calipari done for the University of Kentucky that he hasn't been compensated very well for already?

I view John Calipari as part of the problem, not as part of the solution. I'm completely fine that others do not share my point of view.

This is a Gold Standard, Gold Poster's Post. Right on the money as usual. It is what we come to expect from you.

 

[Lempface]

So wait, why are Allen's expectations set higher than everyone else's? Are you thinking he has to get 15ppg every time he steps on the court? You sound like Cal, attack the bench player, but give the nba prospect a free pass.

You said BJB was better at every aspect of the game, that is 100% false. I don't know where to find the stats, but I will be willing to bet that, with the exception of maybe 5 games, Boston was a net - player when he was on the court. He single handedly cost UK 6 games right at the beginning of the season and several in SEC play.

Most important game of the season was the last game (Mississippi state). Check BJB's stat line. Zero points in 23 minutes.

Most of the season, he got his 12ppg, but his shooting stats were usually in the 4-13 range, but you're trying to say he was a better player than DA, who can break a game wide open by himself. Did BJ ever take a game over?

His expectations weren't as high, BJ's were, Cal played him to hopefully unlock that potential. BJ was the better player on the whole, even if he wasn't good. Dontaie could, break games open by himself, true, but he could also give up 10 straight points while barely contesting drives and not being in the right spots. Where as BJ might give up 10 straight points, but at least he was where he was supposed to be.

My argument is simply against the fact that Cal was effing with DA intentionally to spite the fans or whatever conspiracy y'all are on. He didn't, he played who he thought had the highest upside given a surplus of minutes. He does that every year w/ the freshmen.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

Sorru, this is a crap take. I never saw Allen as lost as you guys make him out to be.
Newsflash, in Cal's defense, you're always scrambling to get back to your man, we play help defense that is constantly switching.

True. It drives me crazy.

 

[kyjeff1]

Not to argue, but I think some of the players and minutes issues are legitimate and some are overblown. No doubt, Boston hurt the team in multiple games because he couldn't make shots. And I agree Allen should have been given more minutes earlier than the 1st Miss St game. I also agree that, generally speaking, Cal sticks with the 5-star guys more and gives them more leash.

But there are some legitimate reasons Cal does this which, though some may not like it or agree with it, make sense. As others have said, there is usually a reason 5-star guys have those ratings. They have more potential and more natural gifts and abilities than others. In most seasons, and especially in a season like this year, the team simply can't come close to its potential if those guys don't meet some of their potential. So, Cal is thinking long term gain over short term gain at times. We can argue the merits of that philosophy til the cows come home. I would say you can think long term so long as you're winning games. But when the 5-star guys are costing you wins, you have to play the line-up that will help you win today. I'm sure it's a struggle when dealing with the fragile psyches of 18 and 19-year old kids who think they are the next Kobe.

I would rather Cal gamble lineups at a different program. He's been playing roulette since he got here.
You can't do this when the guys he favors are only here 1 year, have their minds set on the nba and have an aau game. Cal is using UK to polish these kids for the nba and guys like Baker and Juzang saw the writing on the wall and left.

 

[kyjeff1]

His expectations weren't as high, BJ's were, Cal played him to hopefully unlock that potential. BJ was the better player on the whole, even if he wasn't good. Dontaie could, break games open by himself, true, but he could also give up 10 straight points while barely contesting drives and not being in the right spots. Where as BJ might give up 10 straight points, but at least he was where he was supposed to be.

My argument is simply against the fact that Cal was effing with DA intentionally to spite the fans or whatever conspiracy y'all are on. He didn't, he played who he thought had the highest upside given a surplus of minutes. He does that every year w/ the freshmen.

And how did that work out?
He did the same crap with Skal, Whitney, Knox and every other highly ranked aau kid that he brought in. Sometimes it works, but too many times it hasn't.
This is UK, not Louisville, or some second rate program. Go play roster roulette somewhere else.
He should have recognized back in November during the 6 game losing streak, that BJB was not going to snap out of it. But he stayed with it all season long.
The guy fired brick after brick after brick and rarely took the ball to the rim. Cal kept him in there, just like he did with Whitney and Skal. It’s garbage.
Build a legit college roster, or leave. 9.27 million a year and he's screwing around with aau kids.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

And how did that work out?
He did the same crap with Skal, Whitney, Knox and every other highly ranked aau kid that he brought in. Sometimes it works, but too many times it hasn't.
This is UK, not Louisville, or some second rate program. Go play roster roulette somewhere else.
He should have recognized back in November during the 6 game losing streak, that BJB was not going to snap out of it. But he stayed with it all season long.
The guy fired brick after brick after brick and rarely took the ball to the rim. Cal kept him in there, just like he did with Whitney and Skal. It’s garbage.
Build a legit college roster, or leave. 9.27 million a year and he's screwing around with aau kids.

**** n a right, brother. I’m with y’all. I just don’t understand their logic or argument. When I say “their”, I mean these Cal nut huggers. It’s unbelievable.

 

[kyjeff1]

Except he was, universally by every single recruiting service. There is a reason he’s going to be drafted or signed to a free agent contract and Dontaie will still be at UK. You can disagree with Cal’s approach, but his approach wasn’t **** Dontaie I’m playing BJ regardless.

Proof that nba talent doesn't = good college players.

Take a good look at the rosters left in the NCAAT. Take a look at the rosters of the teams that are getting to the FF's and winning titles. They are all junior and senior laden teams.

Stop looking at UK like we're a minor league farm system.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Proof that nba talent doesn't = good college players.

Take a good look at the rosters left in the NCAAT. Take a look at the rosters of the teams that are getting to the FF's and winning titles. They are all junior and senior laden teams.

Stop looking at UK like we're a minor league farm system.

EXACTLY!