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Anyone else enjoying the irony of . . .

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Fingon

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Trump and his Dunning-Kruger legions whining that Ted Cruz is 'cheating' or 'stealing' by trying to corral convention delegates for the inevitable second ballot and beyond? Or that he's courting unbound delegates under no obligation to vote for Trump? Or there's also that that mean pack of unfair 'insiders' who rigged the Colorado GOP convention. All of this is coming from the same guy who brags about how he used bankruptcy protection to advance his business interests, because it was within the rules and available to him. From someone who games every opportunity, rule, regulation, and contract stipulation to his advantage in the business world.

I find it hard to believe that Trump and his campaign could be this surprised by the rules of the game they knowingly entered. Is the laughable, amateur-hour 'strategy' and lack of planning really that bad and coming home to roost now? Or did Trump really never expect to make it as far as he did?
 
rog1187

rog1187

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Fingon said:
Trump and his Dunning-Kruger legions whining that Ted Cruz is 'cheating' or 'stealing' by trying to corral convention delegates for the inevitable second ballot and beyond? Or that he's courting unbound delegates under no obligation to vote for Trump? Or there's also that that mean pack of unfair 'insiders' who rigged the Colorado GOP convention. All of this is coming from the same guy who brags about how he used bankruptcy protection to advance his business interests, because it was within the rules and available to him. From someone who games every opportunity, rule, regulation, and contract stipulation to his advantage in the business world.

I find it hard to believe that Trump and his campaign could be this surprised by the rules of the game they knowingly entered. Is the laughable, amateur-hour 'strategy' and lack of planning really that bad and coming home to roost now? Or did Trump really never expect to make it as far as he did?
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I don't think he knew the rules or figured he might be able to get around them somehow.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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countryroads89 said:
The Bible thumping Cruz is more crooked than Trump. Surprise surprise.
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Except you really can't produce evidence to support that opinion. However, there is evidence to support Cruz taking actions in support of principle against self-interest. He's aggressive and sometimes combative. You may not like his position. But you can't truthfully say he's corrupt.
 
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mule_eer

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Fingon said:
How is it 'crooked' to understand the rules of delegate allocation and plan accordingly?
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I don't think that's crooked. I think Cruz phrases things to his advantage - thinking of the Iowa flyer about Carson that was worded in a way that made people think Carson had dropped out and him constantly talking about Kasich being ineligible for the nomination because of a rule from the 2012 convention that has to be voted on before the start of the 2016 convention. It's also worth noting that the rule he's applying to Kasich was changed going into the 2012 convention, so it's not one that hasn't been variable over the years.
 
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Fingon

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mule_eer said:
I don't think that's crooked. I think Cruz phrases things to his advantage - thinking of the Iowa flyer about Carson that was worded in a way that made people think Carson had dropped out and him constantly talking about Kasich being ineligible for the nomination because of a rule from the 2012 convention that has to be voted on before the start of the 2016 convention. It's also worth noting that the rule he's applying to Kasich was changed going into the 2012 convention, so it's not one that hasn't been variable over the years.
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Maybe 'crooked' vs. 'dirty politics' is a semantic distinction, but among all the things you list there, I'd ask how Donald Trump or his supporters could cite any of this behavior as a disqualification for Cruz and keep a straight face, given all the outlandish things their guy has said and done over the past 7 months and the lies he's told about other candidates and facts in general. Pot-kettle doesn't even begin to tell the story.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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Fingon said:
Maybe 'crooked' vs. 'dirty politics' is a semantic distinction, but among all the things you list there, I'd ask how Donald Trump or his supporters could cite any of this behavior as a disqualification for Cruz and keep a straight face, given all the outlandish things their guy has said and done over the past 7 months and the lies he's told about other candidates and facts in general. Pot-kettle doesn't even begin to tell the story.
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I don't know how you would say he is engaging in dirty politics. He is operating both within the letter and the spirit of the rules. As Bru pointed out in another post it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the process that allows Trump any traction for his comments.
 
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mule_eer

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Fingon said:
Maybe 'crooked' vs. 'dirty politics' is a semantic distinction, but among all the things you list there, I'd ask how Donald Trump or his supporters could cite any of this behavior as a disqualification for Cruz and keep a straight face, given all the outlandish things their guy has said and done over the past 7 months and the lies he's told about other candidates and facts in general. Pot-kettle doesn't even begin to tell the story.
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I really wasn't trying to defend Trump on this one. He doesn't have clean hands in this regard. He's not playing the game behind the scenes nearly as well as Cruz is right now. I meant to add that phrasing things to his advantage doesn't put him in any sort of new club of politicians. It probably doesn't put him in a new club of people in general. I think it bugs me because I'm a detail oriented guy. I want to know the minutiae. If I know the details, and someone is trying to skirt around them to support their stance, I have an issue. I think that's part of my problem with Cruz in those examples. I think another part of my problem is that I don't tend to like or agree with Cruz on a lot of policy issues. I'm human, and I'm more sensitive to the "mistakes" of people I don't like than I am to those of people I do.
 
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Fingon

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CAJUNEER said:
I don't know how you would say he is engaging in dirty politics. He is operating both within the letter and the spirit of the rules. As Bru pointed out in another post it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the process that allows Trump any traction for his comments.
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Sorry, the dirty politics comment was more targeted to the stuff about the Ben Carson stuff in Iowa, or the Kasich criticism related to his eligibility. I have no issue at all with Cruz's delegate wrangling or understanding of the actual rules at hand.

Trump is a child-like candidate running a campaign that panders to child-like people. "I always win, and if I didn't win that means you cheated!"
 
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countryroads89_rivals

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CAJUNEER said:
I don't know how you would say he is engaging in dirty politics. He is operating both within the letter and the spirit of the rules. As Bru pointed out in another post it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the process that allows Trump any traction for his comments.
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Buying delegate votes is within the spirit of the rules? I'll be damned. Printing and mailing intentionally misleading flyers about a candidate not being in the race is within the spirit of the rules? Again, I'll be damned.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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countryroads89 said:
Buying delegate votes is within the spirit of the rules? I'll be damned. Printing and mailing intentionally misleading flyers about a candidate not being in the race is within the spirit of the rules? Again, I'll be damned.
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Post the evidence Cruz bought delegates. Post the evidence Cruz sent out misleading mailers about his opponents.
 
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mule_eer

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CAJUNEER said:
Yes, there are articles where Trump says Cruz bought delegates. But there is no evidence. There are no articles saying Cruz misled about his opponents In mailers.
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The link isn't about mailers, but it is about Cruz reps saying that Carson was going to drop out before the NH primary to caucus voters.

I should also note that this link is from CNN, and it has embedded video as well as written story.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/02/politics/ted-cruz-ben-carson-apology/
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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countryroads89_rivals

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CAJUNEER said:
Again nothing about a mailer. And anyone who followed the Iowa events knows that Cruz ground troops took what CNN was implying and stated it as fact. Cruz of course is responsible for his team and he did apologize to Carson for it.
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Ok my bad, I combined two fraudulent tactics into one. He misled about Carson dropping out, NOT using mailers, and mailed out fraudulent voting statistics. And you are defending him? [laughing]
 
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countryroads89_rivals

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CAJUNEER said:
But you did lie about a candidate.
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I didn't lie about any candidate. Your logic is amazing. You challenge me to provide proof about his fraudulent tactics and then I do, and it was fraudulent in the words of Fox and the New Yorker, and then you still defend the fraud and attack me. [laughing] You are a special kind of stupid.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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countryroads89 said:
I didn't lie about any candidate. Your logic is amazing. You challenge me to provide proof about his fraudulent tactics and then I do, and it was fraudulent in the words of Fox and the New Yorker, and then you still defend the fraud and attack me. [laughing] You are a special kind of stupid.
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You said Cruz sent out flyers misleading about other candidates.
 
bornaneer

bornaneer

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countryroads89 said:
I didn't lie about any candidate. Your logic is amazing. You challenge me to provide proof about his fraudulent tactics and then I do, and it was fraudulent in the words of Fox and the New Yorker, and then you still defend the fraud and attack me. [laughing] You are a special kind of stupid.
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Did you forget how to spell FAUX? You now expect us to believe FOX is correct.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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CAJUNEER said:
You said Cruz sent out flyers misleading about other candidates.
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countryroads89 said:
I didn't lie about any candidate. Your logic is amazing. You challenge me to provide proof about his fraudulent tactics and then I do, and it was fraudulent in the words of Fox and the New Yorker, and then you still defend the fraud and attack me. [laughing] You are a special kind of stupid.
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My point is even when you're trying to be honest you it's easy to get it wrong. Now, I think it's clear you're so wedged not the Democratic Party you're not all that concerned with facts.
 
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countryroads89_rivals

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CAJUNEER said:
Sure, no problem.

My point is even when you're trying to be honest it's easy to get it wrong. Now, I think it's clear you're so wedged in the Democratic Party you're not all that concerned with facts.
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I already admitted to making a mistake on the "mailing misleading flyers" about another candidate. Two different media outlets, one mainstream and the other right leaning, both called his tactics fraudulent, misleading, unethical, etc as well as the state office in Iowa (Republican, btw). I'm a democrat and have never denied it. But I can also call it like it is and look at things objectively. I am enjoying the demise of the GOP candidates and their terribly failed run at a presidency. I knew they were going to screw this election up when they had 17 candidates lined up to run. They are out of control. They should have thinned down the field from the get go. I'm enjoying all the Republicans on social media devour each other; all those that loved to beat on Obama for seven years and now are divided between Trump and Cruz supporters and are just hurling insults at each other. It's awesome.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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countryroads89 said:
I already admitted to making a mistake on the "mailing misleading flyers" about another candidate. Two different media outlets, one mainstream and the other right leaning, both called his tactics fraudulent, misleading, unethical, etc as well as the state office in Iowa (Republican, btw). I'm a democrat and have never denied it. But I can also call it like it is and look at things objectively. I am enjoying the demise of the GOP candidates and their terribly failed run at a presidency. I knew they were going to screw this election up when they had 17 candidates lined up to run. They are out of control. They should have thinned down the field from the get go. I'm enjoying all the Republicans on social media devour each other; all those that loved to beat on Obama for seven years and now are divided between Trump and Cruz supporters and are just hurling insults at each other. It's awesome.
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We'll see how it turns out.
 
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KTeer

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Cruz is not obligated to not take advantage of a dumbass that did not understand the process.
 
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