AR15 Age Limit
- Thread starter 812scottj
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I don't like the recent attempts (by both sides) to conflate "stranger" mass shootings like in Uvalde and in Buffalo with more traditional, often urban, mass shootings we see on a regular basis. The vast majority of the latter involve people who are known to the shooter. That does not make them less bad, just less relatable to the majority of us. I would love to stop them all. But I am most horrified by, and thus most focused on limiting, the random ones.
"A well regulated militia..." this is a sticking point for some of you because you try and insert your own meaning to these simple words. Regulated, at that time, referred to being armed. The militia would be the armed citizens. It could just have easily said "A well armed citizenry..."
Your number is false. But let’s say it’s accurate. Do those 3 not deserve compassion and not be referred to as whores? “Whores” as he so eloquently put it aren’t the only ones that seek
Abortions for a multitude of reasons. Anyone who refers to a woman as a ***** regardless of how many sexual partners she has loses any credibility or the chance to be taken seriously. Saying things like that is an example of the bullying that many in this thread claim is the reason for mass shootings today. They have no problem with it in this thread though.
Statistics suggest you are more likely to be killed by a random stranger with a pistol in something like a hold up than ever be involved in a mass shooting.
What a relief!!! I bet that really makes the families in Texas, Buffalo, and all the other mass shooting locations feel so much better. It’s right there next to the thoughts and prayers.
-yep...that's run of the mill crime.
-i worry most about the school shootings...all young males. Raise the age to purchase a gun to 25 and that will make a difference. Won't stop it...but nothing will.
-I'll repeat it: schizophrenia and other serious mental problems don't "present" until early 20's.
-spare me the simpleton argument about military service...the training/supervision and most importantly psychological evaluation that happens in the military is *nothing* like a civilian buying a gun at age 18 or so.
-very simple proposal that *will* mitigate some of the shootings.
I have dropped out of both threads, everything has pretty much been said 6 or 8 times. But I think this is at least twice I have liked your proposals. For God's sake, try something different, otherwise, it is just wash, rinse, repeat
First, I never said mental health would, alone, solve these problems. That given voiced, why would you push back in any way on discovering the cause of the desire to shoot one’s own classmates?
You are appear to be arguing that access to the gun is a cause of the problem. I find that to be a simplistic approach that is unlikely to solve the problem, but only more likely to move the ball a bit. Getting rid of all guns is not possible. The current remedies suggested don’t solve the problem, as most have admitted. So, why dismiss mental health discussions? Because people agree on those and they don’t pertain to gun control?
Why so many push back on ideas where we recently voiced agreement is troubling.
I am not pushing back against more mental health treatment, that too needs to be part of the solution. To make a serious dent in the murder rate, it is going to take several steps, one from column A, two from column B, etc., but mental health evaluations and interventions have to be included.
Something is going on and it is triggering young men to want to kill classmates and kids in school. It seems likely that the young men see the school as a focal point of their anger and mental disturbance. That suggests there is a culture problem in some or all school settings (others may also feel the urge but may not act) and it is not properly being addressed. It would seem axiomatic that we would want to learn what is the etiology of this ideation. We have seen enough to know it is not isolated.
So many have suggested that limiting gun sales by age is the answer. To me, this seems sophomoric. We are going to change the laws and restrict gun rights to address an extremely small portion of that age group? That kind of reactionary response is scary to me when I think of it being extrapolated to other problems we face. The scale will then shift by age or some other factor when the next horrific event happens that falls outside the new law, and it will happen.
We shall see how the 11th Circuit rules on the Florida gun purchase age restriction. I still believe the better argument is it is unconstitutional. I am not sure there is a rational basis for the law, even though it does not apparently restrict gun ownership.
I think the waiting period for gun purchases make more sense, but also caution that there is nothing about that proposal that suggests the most recent mass shootings would have been thwarted by a “cooling period.”
I really don’t know enough about the application of “red flag” laws to comment on their viability, but I inherently am skeptical of a law that may unjustly impact people the law does not state are its target.
Established in this thread: TCurtis75 cares and he has decided others don’t.
But, we could have guessed that before the thread was started. Not much progress here.
You are missing the point and I’m surprised at you. Weapons that can kill en masse have been available for many decades. That’s a fact. But only in the last 25 years or so have mass shootings of this nature become a phenomenon. Also a fact.
Something changed. Upping the age restrictions won’t fix what changed. That should be very obvious.
I would be for raising the age to 21 to buy a gun if the age to vote was raised along with it. Hell, I'd go along with 34.
Yea I don't know about all that. I'd rather speak freely than worry about offending people in an internet forum.
Freely doesn’t mean being an ***. You can speak freely and tactfully. Nevermind the fact that it is possible people read this message board that have been personally impacted by mass shootings.
I 100% with out a shadow of a doubt think mental health is a factor. I don't see that as a binary choice and the solution must be holistic. And I've also yet to see a solution involving mental health that has led to a decrease. We know there is a correlation between mental health and mass murders, but improving one to decrease the other is one factor. What is the actual solution involving mental health?
In terms of guns, I think this in terms of hard cold facts. Ignoring constitutionality, political bias, anything else, that access to guns has a direct correlation to gun murders. There are all kinds of statistics that support that belief. But just to reinforce, a thought experiment. if we were to imagine a world where not one gun existed, there is no plausible scenario where murder rate is not reduced. So, we can view supply of guns as a functional parameter to a higher yield of gun murders. It's a natural conclusion.
So, many may read above and then say "bkinguk wants to illegalize all guns." No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying factually that the amount of guns in a society yields higher murder rates. We can then from there drill into the types of guns used to commit murders and other scenarios which lead to murders. And the biggest commonality is handguns.
Yea, man, again, we can't have honest conversations if we can't keep things real. Obviously we all feel bad for these people. We don't need to let that get in the way of honest conversations. Also, this thread is about gun control, particularly with AR-15's. Not sure why we need to limit conversation to sending condolences.
We owe that to ourselves though right? We vote. We're the people who put people like Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, AOC, Matt Geotz, etc in office. Maybe we're the problem. Certainly reading through our political thread here, there isn't a ton of intelligent thought going on. If we aren't smart enough to decipher that Qanon isn't real or that communism won't work then how can we judge others intelligence. The problem is that stupid people have been given access to be part of the media. They share their stupid *** thoughts and read nothing that will stretch them intellectually or challenge their beliefs. Our segmented media means basically half our country is brainwashed because they only get reporting from their side.
Those in the middle who have reasonable ideas are spurned in the primaries by people who want ideological purity. Anyone who thinks one side has all the answers and the other side is always wrong is written off immediately by me as incapable of serious discussion. Literally 80% of the posts on our political thread are by people incapable of serious discussion that shouldn't be trusted to run our country, but they make up 40% of the Republican party so they can advance their dumbass candidates through any primary. Same thing goes on the other side too, but we don't have any truly liberal posters here and KY doesn't elect Democrats.
This is who the shooters are according Psychology Today
4. The media contagion effect (copycat killings) may serve as an especially powerful motivator for those who already feel anger, frustration, or loss.
5. Shooters tend to have experienced dysfunctional family situations or experience a lack of effective adult supervision, mentoring, or oversight.
6. Sixty-eight percent of shooters obtained weapons from their home or the home of a relative. (Yes, ease of availability to firearms does matter.)
7. Shooters tend to express their frustrations and anger using art and/or social media posts; thus, monitoring of such media becomes an important tool in early identification of individuals at risk for committing violence.
This model is not a “profile.” It is simply the accumulation and integration of recurring themes that warrant consideration, not only by law enforcement, but educators and mental health clinicians dedicated to primary prevention and school safety.
4. The media contagion effect (copycat killings) may serve as an especially powerful motivator for those who already feel anger, frustration, or loss.
5. Shooters tend to have experienced dysfunctional family situations or experience a lack of effective adult supervision, mentoring, or oversight.
6. Sixty-eight percent of shooters obtained weapons from their home or the home of a relative. (Yes, ease of availability to firearms does matter.)
7. Shooters tend to express their frustrations and anger using art and/or social media posts; thus, monitoring of such media becomes an important tool in early identification of individuals at risk for committing violence.
This model is not a “profile.” It is simply the accumulation and integration of recurring themes that warrant consideration, not only by law enforcement, but educators and mental health clinicians dedicated to primary prevention and school safety.
The Left’s, capitalized because of shared experiences, obvious conclusion that all school mass murders are conducted by mentally ill people, but not all mentally Ill people are mass murderers does resonate with me when I think of the cultural environment that evidently took an ill person and seemingly facilitated placing a target on the community’s back. I suspect there are many similarly mentally ill people who do not even form or act on ideations of murder/suicide. What is happening and/or not happening in some school environments that leads to such horror and does not pacify evil thoughts? There appears to be something. So, we don’t necessarily have to cure the mental disease, but may need to better understand it so that our reactions do not push it to this cliff. Because there are so many common variables, I admittedly am assuming that this 20 year run of these events is not a condition that lacks environmental triggers.
To follow up on the above, which is really good by the way, I think I read where less than 10% of all house of rep seats are in any real sense "competitive, meaning whoever wins the party primary is invincible in the fall. So if only 30% or so of the population is registered independent, all you have to do is win >50% of the small portion of the remaining 35%, (70% divided in half to Dem/Repub) primary voters who bother to show up for primaries.
Only 20% voted in the May primary in Kentucky for example. And if there are several candidates in the primary, you could easily win the House seat with 25% of the primary, or what amounts to less than 10% of the registered voters.
Tell me in what universe the above system makes any sense?
Let’s look at those that directly involves the shooter’s perceptions about the school, which eventually becomes the focus of his anger/frustration/“revenge”.
Here are thoughts that school-centered specialists should direct their focus. Defusing a time bomb does not mean fixing the brokenness.
Not sure what this means or what "The Left" has to do with it. Literally. I'm confused.
Of course not all mentally ill people are mass murderers, but I think it's hard to argue that there hasn't been a single mass murderer who is not mentally ill. That can even get blurry, I guess. Was Stalin mentally ill or just a dick?
I don't know.
But regardless, my assumption is that the solution we are talking about is mental health education in schools. What other commonality could the state implement in terms of mental health?
The left is a political reference to people who are liberally far left of center. Those on the Left, have most recently pushed back (see Biden’s press Secretary about 7-10 days ago) to people focusing on mental illness as an issue to address concerning the Texas school murders.
I don’t think there are many people who reject the idea that the school mass killings have been perpetrated by people with diagnosable mental illness. And, it is not about mental health education in schools, but rather how schools identify illness and environments that trigger that illness.
Aren't NRA meetings/conventions "gun free zones" that you all constantly talk about?
Part of the problem here is labelling those who might be in favor of modest gun legislation (background check laws, raising the age to purchase, etc.) as "the Left" . The majority of Americans favor these types of changes, or at least the polls say they do.
Ideally, yes…voters should be more educated, but the real challenge is that our best minds don’t even run for office. We’re stuck with Pelosi, AOC, Shumer, etc.
Absolutely not. There are rare exceptions…like when Trump spoke, guns were prohibited during that session. I’m an Endowment Life Member of the NRA. They need new leadership, but I still support the cause.
For gun owners:
I have never purchased a firearm. I am considering getting a rifle for home protection purposes, as I watch the world devolve into chaos (my perception, sharing it is not required for answering).
Is a rifle a good choice? I have family members who own “deer rifles,” but I have no desire to hunt. I only know about ARs because they are publicized so much. What is a good rifle for my purposes?
Thanks.
I have never purchased a firearm. I am considering getting a rifle for home protection purposes, as I watch the world devolve into chaos (my perception, sharing it is not required for answering).
Is a rifle a good choice? I have family members who own “deer rifles,” but I have no desire to hunt. I only know about ARs because they are publicized so much. What is a good rifle for my purposes?
Thanks.
There are a lot of answers to that question depending on many possible situations. You can do an internet search and find many answers. One of them is how much you will practice and how good (and safe) you will get with it. I normally recommend first time buyers to get a revolver (and practice) because there is less chance for an accident/negligent occurrence, but there are to many variables to tell you do this. Whatever you get, get lessons and learn how to be safe. Here's the first thing that came up when I searched.
Edit to add: Before you buy for defense, ask yourself this question and answer very carefully: "Am I willing to take a life?" If the answer is no, look for other means of protection. Trying to scare someone may just escalate the situation.
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Yes let's provide resources to diagnose and treat mental illness. However in the meantime, until we cure all mental illness, let's keep guns out of the hands of people with mental illness, especially when they are making threats of committing violence with them (as 90% of mass murders do).
Home defense I like the shotgun. Get a tactical version with a buttstock because you need shorter barrel in tighter quarters
if you have kids, check out ShotLock to lock it up. Love mine. Also you can load the tube but don’t chamber a shell with it because shotguns have been known to fire when dropped. Cops call it “cruiser carrying”
defense rounds also important. 00 buckshot
There is an easy way to stop them, and it doesn't involve gun laws, mental health, red flag laws etc. (not that I'm against those)
That SOUNDS good, but it's a whole lot easier to just keep the loonies, and their guns out of the school buildings. Pretty simple actually.