Average distance traveled.....

[thekimmer]

The thread about TV and other things eroding college football game attendance triggered this thought. Does anyone know if there is data anywhere that estimates the average distance the home fans from each SEC school travel to attend a football game?

That would be interesting information. Just getting at this indirectly based on the sheer population within a 50 or 100 mile radius it makes sense that MSU would top the list. Looking at this statistic one sees:

Population within radius of 50 miles & 100 miles
Starkville 319K 1.4M
Columbia MO 460K 1.9M (I was surprised at this one)
Oxford 584K 2.5M

These are the bottom three and they don't even consider the proximity to state lines and overlap with competing fanbases which makes our numbers even worse

 

[kired]

Starkville is by far the least populated area when you consider a 1-1.5 hour drive time. Practically every school has at least 1 million more people to draw from within 100 miles. That's not going to change unless some kind of end of the world plague breaks out.

 

[dorndawg]

I'd be curious to see these stats, do you have a link?

Also, I don't think there is ANY way there are more than 319k people within 50 miles of Manhattan KS, even if you count Ft Riley.

 

[ugabully]

The thread about TV and other things eroding college football game attendance triggered this thought. Does anyone know if there is data anywhere that estimates the average distance the home fans from each SEC school travel to attend a football game?

That would be interesting information. Just getting at this indirectly based on the sheer population within a 50 or 100 mile radius it makes sense that MSU would top the list. Looking at this statistic one sees:

Population within radius of 50 miles & 100 miles
Starkville 319K 1.4M
Columbia MO 460K 1.9M (I was surprised at this one)
Oxford 584K 2.5M

These are the bottom three and they don't even consider the proximity to state lines and overlap with competing fanbases which makes our numbers even worse

This is why the hotel and motel policies around Starkville are a big problem. If I'm not mistaken, every place you can stay requires at least a two night stay and that you basically book the whole home game season. (Every place may not require it; it may just be everyplace my mom was willing to stay in Starkville back when my parents had season tickets.)

My take is that there's big opportunity for people to open clean, safe, relatively cheap places that would principally be open during football season and only have a skeleton crew the rest of the academic year, except maybe for graduation weekend. It may be the case that Starkville and upscale fans could even support one of the Gameday condos kind of luxury outfits for the high rollers (athens example http://www.gagamedaycenter.com/) which would then create some vacancies in the rest of the hotel market.

But there seems to be a disconnection with building up the live, in-game experience if you have a relatively small pool of people for whom it's drive-able and then hotel market which more than quadruples the price.

 

[AHSDawg]

And, every hotel in Starkville charges $250/night during the season for a room that is regularly $89 at best.

 

[esplanade91]

And, every hotel in Starkville charges $250/night during the season for a room that is regularly $89 at best.

This.

 

[mstateglfr]

Can't help ya on the fan base avg travel time, but on a related note-
MSU and Washington State are the two most rural schools on BCS conferences based on Micro and Metro Statistical areas. At least that was the case about 5 years ago.

 

[kired]

Try this. Manhattan, KS is very similar to MSU when you compare 50, 100, 120, and 150 miles.

http://mcdc.missouri.edu/websas/caps10c.html

 

[woozman]

And, every hotel in Starkville charges $250/night during the season for a room that is regularly $89 at best.

Supply and demand...

Same reason a room at the casinos down here would have run you $68 last night (Thursday), but will run you $289 tonight or tomorrow night.

 

[WayboDawg]

I'm just amazed the SEC keeps us in the conference honestly. It would be so easy for them to kick us out and put somebody with a big TV market like Houston or Memphis in our place. I guess we should suck that titty till its dry.

 

[Palos verdes]

Ole Miss is just as rural, it's still 70 miles to Memphis. At least Starkville is close to a similarly sized town in Columbus.

 

[maroonmania]

Can't help ya on the fan base avg travel time, but on a related note-
MSU and Washington State are the two most rural schools on BCS conferences based on Micro and Metro Statistical areas. At least that was the case about 5 years ago.

Exactly the reason it makes the least sense for us to be hosting weekday kickoffs on Thursday night but we keep doing it and making it tough on our fanbase who for the most part drive multiple hours one way to get to the ball game..

 

[thatsbaseball]

Most of you probably don`t even remember when neither 25 or 82 were four lane. Talkin about a place that was a ***** to get to.

 

[RocketDawg]

Most of you probably don`t even remember when neither 25 or 82 were four lane. Talkin about a place that was a ***** to get to.

I remember. Hwy 45 was also just a 2 lane then. For that matter, there were very few 4 lane highways in the whole state, and even fewer freeways. Things are pretty good now overall.

I swear though that the road you turn onto at the Highway Patrol station (can't remember the street name) hasn't been resurfaced since I was there in the '60s. It was rough then, even rougher now.

 

[thatsbaseball]

The road from I55 to Oxford has been four lane since the sixties. Believe me it makes a difference.

 

[The Usual Suspect]

Some would call it price gouging rather than supply demand. That's what people call it when a service station charges $5/gallon during a shortage. Why not call it that for hotels?

 

[jb1020]

I was driving across the state of Washington once

Saw the exit for WSU and thought, holy **** this place is literally in the middle of no where...it's hard to believe Starkville is in the same category.

 

[Snog]

The road from I55 to Oxford has been four lane since the sixties. Believe me it makes a difference.

State legislature in action. I started school in 87. 82 from Winona to Starkville was just beginning to be four laned. Correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't finish until the mid 2000s.

********. And every bit of it was political and intentional.

 

[holydawg]

State legislature in action. I started school in 87. 82 from Winona to Starkville was just beginning to be four laned. Correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't finish until the mid 2000s.

********. And every bit of it was political and intentional.

THIS.

Ole Miss lawyers care about our students safety....not. But what's a few traffic accidents on the hell hole that was 82 between Winona and Starkville as long is they could make Ole Miss look better.

 

[Captain Ron]

Normally gouging...

Some would call it price gouging rather than supply demand. That's what people call it when a service station charges $5/gallon during a shortage. Why not call it that for hotels?

is when there has been sort of disaster where the retailer is supposedly taking advantage of a bad situation, not trying to increase revenue off consumers taking part in a voluntary, leisure activity.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Hwy 82 is one of the main east-west corridors in the state. It`s neglect for so many years was blatant and I personally believe the procrastination on improving it was Mississippi State related and intentional. Call me a black helicopter or whatever but the whole thing stunk to high heaven.

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

And, every hotel in Starkville charges $250/night during the season for a room that is regularly $89 at best.

And every hotel is completely booked on game weekends. What's your point?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Yeah it was finished my senior year in 2004.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I'm sure it was a priority to do four lanes to Oxford. There were a lot of roads that took forever to four-lane like 82. Highway 61 from clarksdale to Tunica took over ten years but then the casinos came along and magically the rest from tunica to the state line got built in two years.

 

[Ishmael]

This is why the hotel and motel policies around Starkville are a big problem. If I'm not mistaken, every place you can stay requires at least a two night stay and that you basically book the whole home game season. (Every place may not require it; it may just be everyplace my mom was willing to stay in Starkville back when my parents had season tickets.)

My take is that there's big opportunity for people to open clean, safe, relatively cheap places that would principally be open during football season and only have a skeleton crew the rest of the academic year, except maybe for graduation weekend. It may be the case that Starkville and upscale fans could even support one of the Gameday condos kind of luxury outfits for the high rollers (athens example http://www.gagamedaycenter.com/) which would then create some vacancies in the rest of the hotel market.

But there seems to be a disconnection with building up the live, in-game experience if you have a relatively small pool of people for whom it's drive-able and then hotel market which more than quadruples the price.

My issue is not the hotel policies but the fact there are so few decent hotels in Starkville and they fill up about a year in advance. Try finding a place to stay for any home game this season. I've looked multiple times in the past 6 months and there's not a room available I'd be willing to stay in.

With the games often kicking off 6 pm or later it's really hard for anyone living two hours away or more to make the game and get back home the same day.

 

[Rebels7]

Ole Miss is just as rural, it's still 70 miles to Memphis. At least Starkville is close to a similarly sized town in Columbus.

I understand the argument you're trying to make. But you lost me at comparing Columbus to Memphis.

 

[ugabully]

And every hotel is completely booked on game weekends. What's your point?

I think the point is that the hotel market is likely to contribute to problems actually putting people in seats at games. As the actual game/MSU costs continue to rise for good seats, there's a limited number of hotels that folks would even been willing to stay in, and market allows those rooms to be prices anyway the hotel owners choose. Perhaps this cannot go on indefinitely with the relatively limited number of people who live close enough to drive to the game same day.

So, let's make the next Six Pack fundraiser about buying land and building a hotel.

 

[thekimmer]

Sorry I didn't save it. It was a link that you put in a specific zip code and it would calculate the population within whatever defined radius you put into it around that code.

 

[mstateglfr]

Ole Miss is just as rural, it's still 70 miles to Memphis. At least Starkville is close to a similarly sized town in Columbus.

Its just as rural within 50mi, maybe, but not when you jump out to 75 and 100.

Olive Branch is not even 60mi from Oxford. You have densely populated suburbs less than 60mi away.

But yes, within 50 mi they are probably similar in ruralness.

 

[mcdawg22]

So, let's make the next Six Pack fundraiser about buying land and building a hotel.

Let's not, because the occupancies are **** from June to September. I guarantee those months hotels in Starkville stay in the red. If they don't make their nut during fall and a lesser degree some spring weekends, they are probably not profitable for the year. So if prices drop in Fall due to competition all that is going to happen is hotels are going to close, and you are back to square one.

 

[ugabully]

Let's not, because the occupancies are **** from June to September. I guarantee those months hotels in Starkville stay in the red. If they don't make their nut during fall and a lesser degree some spring weekends, they are probably not profitable for the year. So if prices drop in Fall due to competition all that is going to happen is hotels are going to close, and you are back to square one.

I don't think we are in any danger of going into the hotel business. Even if I had a lot of extra money to invest lying around, Starkvegas Hotel Mogul isn't at the top of my list.

However, I think there's plenty of room in the Starkville market to support additional hotels. I also think it's possible to conceive of a design and employment model that allows for the fluctuation in occupancy rates while still staying profitable. You've basically got to be able to shut down most of the hotel for most of the year. Since you've got a pretty strong supply of temporary workers with the college kids, I actually think you could do it. If the football sellout numbers continue, I think you'll see it happen. What I'd expect to see first really would be a condo type thing like I linked earlier, so you'd share the upfront cost with other buyers and owners.

ETA: Do you all think that Old Waverly condos are essentially the State equivalent of luxury condos that some SEC college towns have for big spending season ticket fans and tailgaters? Plus you get golf amenities for other parts of the year?

 

[Go Budaw]

Starkville is pretty rural, but if you expand that 100 mile radius to 120 miles or 150 miles (about a 2hr drive), the travel base increases significantly by adding Jackson, Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, etc. I think Starkville's primary obstacle isn't the availability of fans to travel, but the fact that our "territory" overlaps with Alabama's, and due to their history they have capitalized on attracting far more fans in our backyard than MSU has from the Tuscaloosa / Bham areas. Ole miss doesn't have this problem with Memphis because there is not another BCS school within close proximity of the Memphis area.

 

[Gkell]

Ole Miss is just as rural, it's still 70 miles to Memphis. At least Starkville is close to a similarly sized town in Columbus.

Yeah, but the difference is, everybody wants to go to Oxford.

 

[Palos verdes]

I understand the argument you're trying to make. But you lost me at comparing Columbus to Memphis.

You don't understand my argument if you think I was comparing Columbus and Memphis. Oxford is not a suburb of the greater Memphis area, you're much closer to Tupelo.

 

[RocketDawg]

I understand the argument you're trying to make. But you lost me at comparing Columbus to Memphis.

Similar in size to Starkville, not Memphis. Pretty sure the latest Census Bureau numbers show Starkville larger than Columbus. Not sure if that includes students or not, but I gather not since MSU is not IN Starkville.

 

[patdog]

There shouldn't be quite as many night games in the future. CBS doesn't have the 2:30 - 6:00 time slot exclusively any more. I'm sure there will always be a game on SECN in that time slot, and possibly on one of the ESPNs as well.

 

[mcdawg22]

We stay at Waverly when we go. The price is the same, they allow cancellation, the drive is the only thing that is a problem.

 

[ugabully]

We stay at Waverly when we go. The price is the same, they allow cancellation, the drive is the only thing that is a problem.

That's where I've stayed the last few times I've been over for a game, and because traffic around campus isn't that bad compared to a lot of other campuses on game day, we didn't even find the drive that bad. You're obviously covering more miles, but time in the car is no worse than a much shorter distance in Athens or Auburn IMO.

 

[ArcherSPS]

I understand the argument you're trying to make. But you lost me at comparing Columbus to Memphis.

He's comparing Starkville to Columbus

 

[johnson86-1]

I don't think we are in any danger of going into the hotel business. Even if I had a lot of extra money to invest lying around, Starkvegas Hotel Mogul isn't at the top of my list.

However, I think there's plenty of room in the Starkville market to support additional hotels. I also think it's possible to conceive of a design and employment model that allows for the fluctuation in occupancy rates while still staying profitable. You've basically got to be able to shut down most of the hotel for most of the year. Since you've got a pretty strong supply of temporary workers with the college kids, I actually think you could do it. If the football sellout numbers continue, I think you'll see it happen. What I'd expect to see first really would be a condo type thing like I linked earlier, so you'd share the upfront cost with other buyers and owners.

ETA: Do you all think that Old Waverly condos are essentially the State equivalent of luxury condos that some SEC college towns have for big spending season ticket fans and tailgaters? Plus you get golf amenities for other parts of the year?

Most of your cost are going to be capital costs. If you find an existing **** hotel that you can buy for cheap, maybe you can shut down most of it for most of the year and then get it cleaned up for game season and offer reasonably cheap rooms that are just adequate. Another problem with your plan though is that you generally can't just moth ball rooms for months at a time and expect them to stay pristine. The less you do with them through the year, the more work will be required when you want them. If you add just minimal heating and cooling and periodic light cleaning, you're a long ways toward the cost of just having them open.