Baylor trots out one QB after another...

[doctom4]

We can barely get one that would be considered quality at a time.

The replacement this week: Jarrett Stidham, a freshman recruit who enrolled early, went through spring practice and is 23 of 27, (85% completions) for 319 yards with five touchdowns and zero interceptions. I'm thinking that he probably doesn't miss a beat, just like RG III, Nick Florence, Bryce Petty and Seth Russell... and that's in five years' time. Now, it hasn't translated to the NFL well, but look at that group of QBs Baylor's had just in the time DH has been here.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

They have a good coach.

 

[Samuel S]

And a bit of luck.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

We can barely get one that would be considered quality at a time.

The replacement this week: Jarrett Stidham, a freshman recruit who enrolled early, went through spring practice and is 23 of 27, (85% completions) for 319 yards with five touchdowns and zero interceptions. I'm thinking that he probably doesn't miss a beat, just like RG III, Nick Florence, Bryce Petty and Seth Russell... and that's in five years' time. Now, it hasn't translated to the NFL well, but look at that group of QBs Baylor's had just in the time DH has been here.

At this point in the season, Nick Florence was leading a team that was 3-4......... had a 64% completion rate...... 22TDs/11 INTS (2:10)........ and had lost to: Texas and Iowa State (both teams beaten by Dana that season)

meanwhile, Howard is 3-3 with 15 TDs/6 INTs (5:2) and has lost to 3 undefeated teams........throwing a 60% completion rate


So if Howard stinks....... so did Florence................ isn't revisionist history fun?!!!

RG3 - Geno
Petty - Trickett
Florence - Howard
Russell - verdict is still out

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

Next man up. And it's not luck.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

Petty was 100x the player Trickett was and Russell might be the best of them all. I didn't see much of Nick Florence so I can't really compare, but Skyler Howard is not good. He is the the main person holding this team back.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Petty was 100x the player Trickett was and Russell might be the best of them all. I didn't see much of Nick Florence so I can't really compare, but Skyler Howard is not good. He is the the main person holding this team back.

Petty - 12 games, 3855 yards, 270/428 (63%) 29 TDs, 9 INTs 24 sacks 9-yard average on completions

Trickett - 10 games, 3285 yards, 281/419 (67%) 18 TDs, 10 INTs 26 sacks 8-yard average on completions

Factor in the 2 games that Clint didn't play, and according to his game average (329 yards/game), Clint would have far surpassed Petty's passing yards....

OR we could just look at the head-to-head: Petty - 16/36 for 223 and TDs Tricket - 23/35 for 322 and 3 TDs

Isn't revisionist history fun, folks?!

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

How about looking at the entire body work? How about their win loss record? You also leave out the fact that Petty had 21 rushing TDs.

Clint Trickett has 35 total TDs in 4 years of college football. Petty had 46 total TDs in his junior season alone

Or maybe you can use Clint's stellar 8-9 as a starter to help your argument, compared to Petty's 21-4 record.

 

[Buckaineer]

Yeah, I'm sure that being located in Texas between Dallas/Fort Worth and Austin/San Antonio and Houston plays no role at all in Baylor being able to recruit QBs. Not to mention they have a rep for a high flying passing game since RGIII and have had the same HC since 2008. Or have been in the same conference for years. Did I mention they have such loyal support that they built a brand new state of the art stadium from the ground up that just opened last year?

Yeah, can't see any difference between that and Holgorsen's situation at all.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

Yeah, I'm sure that being located in Texas between Dallas/Fort Worth and Austin/San Antonio and Houston plays no role at all in Baylor being able to recruit QBs. Not to mention they have a rep for a high flying passing game since RGIII and have had the same HC since 2008. Or have been in the same conference for years. Did I mention they have such loyal support that they built a brand new state of the art stadium from the ground up that just opened last year?

Yeah, can't see any difference between that and Holgorsen's situation at all.

It's coaching and nothing else. Baylor was a laughingstock before Briles got there, he has changed that. It's not like BU has a long history of having great QBs/

I don't like the guy, but he's a fantastic coach and is much, much better than the coach we have.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

How about looking at the entire body work? How about their win loss record? You also leave out the fact that Petty had 21 rushing TDs.

Clint Trickett has 35 total TDs in 4 years of college football. Petty had 46 total TDs in his junior season alone

Or maybe you can use Clint's stellar 8-9 as a starter to help your argument, compared to Petty's 21-4 record.

lol, how about win/loss record? Really? A TEAM STAT to justify a one-to-one comparison?

Yes, Petty played on better teams during his college career.......... can't argue that. But as far as QB play, numbers don't lie unless you choose to ignore them

 

[KeatonsCorner]

It is a LOT easier to resurrect a football program when you live in the heart of football..................... guys like RG3, Petty, Florence, and Russell grew up an hour from campus

WVU has to go to FL or Bama or Ohio or Texas or wherever............. there's zero argument

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

Ok. in 4 years of college football, Petty has more yards, nearly double the passing TDs, 18 more rushing TDs, half the interceptions, higher completion percentage, and a higher QB rating than Clint Trickett's 4 years of CFB.

I'm looking at body of work. Petty was a great college player, Clint had a good 2/3 of a senior season.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Ok. in 4 years of college football, Petty has more yards, nearly double the passing TDs, 18 more rushing TDs, half the interceptions, higher completion percentage, and a higher QB rating than Clint Trickett's 4 years of CFB.

Seems obvious that Petty is the better player.

And you're comparing a high-flying pass-heavy, ignore defense offensive system which Petty lived in for 4 years to the slow-n-low ground attack of FSU where Trickett WAS A BACKUP to a 1st round pick and a season and a half of WVU football where, when healthy, Clint outperformed Petty.......

The fact remains that in 4 previous seasons at WVU under Dana.......We've had 3 QBs among the nation's top 25.......... and if Trickett doesn't go down, it would be 3 in the top 10.......

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

That's sonething I don't get. Clint Trickett was a real good qb. His problem was he wasn't bigger than a popcorn fart, got the heck beat out of himself, and when he threw an int, he ran like he was on a suicide mission to make the tackle. That boy was a football player. He just wasn't durable though.

His problem was He was so small though. I mean Pat white was bigger frame wise, and he's small. Clint had the arm (year 2, not year 1 when it was screwed up before Dr Andrews fixed it) and had accuracy better than most WVU qbs.

As for his stats, in year 2 he had a better grasp of the offense, than Geno ever had and it showed. He made some real good audibles (minus the TCU gane last year)). Before he got his bell rung, he didn't have many picks either. I still say if our wrs had not dropped about 6 easy passes vs BAMA, we'd have won that one. Why people dog him I dont know.

 

[Samuel S]

Luck plays a role in almost everything. Sure, over time, it tends to even out, but when, inevitably, Baylor has a QB that doesn't just keep the ball rolling it won't mean that Briles is losing it. There is luck involved in getting that many consecutively to perform at a high level. If he ever has 2-3 out of 4 or 5 that fail to deliver high level performance, then you can say he might be losing it.

 

[Buckaineer]

It's coaching and nothing else. Baylor was a laughingstock before Briles got there, he has changed that. It's not like BU has a long history of having great QBs/

I don't like the guy, but he's a fantastic coach and is much, much better than the coach we have.

Holgorsen beat Briles in 2 of the 5 contests--last year soundly.
Hardly makes Briles a better coach.

Briles is a good coach--and he's also blessed with being in possibly the number one recruiting territory in the nation while WVU is in about the most difficult position in the majors in that regard. He also has something you are hoping to take from WVU and that is time in the coaching seat. Briles went 4-8, 4-8, and 7-6 prior to getting things going with RGIII btw. If he were at WVU he'd have been booted before any possible success.

Holgorsen is regarded as one of the top offensive minds in the country by about everyone except the negative nellies here that want to blow everything up because they want to dismiss all the major changes WVU has gone through and the level of depth and talent on the roster.

Everyone wants to win right now, but one also has to be realistic about the situation. The BIG 12 is an extremely tough football conference. WVU has lost to two undefeated top 25 teams--one in overtime and one ranked in the top two or three--on the road. A third is a historical power, the game was there, they are top 15 and have but one loss in season to another BIG 12 power.

No one can work miracles and WVU needs to continue recruiting and recruiting better to move up the food chain regardless of the coach.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

I've never heard anyone refer to Jimbo Fisher as a ground and pound coach.

In 2011 Clint started against wake and got benched. FSU threw the ball 46 times that game.
Clint started against Clemson and threw the ball 38 times, FSU ran it 15 times!
Trickett replaced Manuel against OU. FSU threw it 34 times and ran it 26 times.

That is not a ground and pound offense. Besides, compare the #s from both players junior and senior years, Petty's stats are far superior.

 

[GoWVU]

And you're comparing a high-flying pass-heavy, ignore defense offensive system which Petty lived in for 4 years to the slow-n-low ground attack of FSU where Trickett WAS A BACKUP to a 1st round pick and a season and a half of WVU football where, when healthy, Clint outperformed Petty.......

You mean just like you compared a high-flying pass-heavy, ignore defense offensive system which Geno lived in for 2 years to the slow-n-low ground attack of Jeff Mullen in which Geno was hamstrung his first year as a starter on that other thread? Isn't Keaton's revisionist hypocrisy fun? Whee!

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Clint's junior season started a week late to August camp to learn a completely new system and he didn't get game time until week 5...... And played through a torn shoulder



But dont let ACTUAL situational analysis get in the way of your ranting

 

[Samuel S]

Obviously, Petty was better than Trickett. Obviously, Briles is better than Holgorsen. No one with a brain would debate either proposition.

These are not the real issues. The questions are what is acceptable for the remainder of this season not to go in a new direction and, if he meets those minimal accomplishments, how much longer will people be willing to accept such minimal standards as not completely sucking.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

Holgorsen beat Briles in 2 of the 5 contests--last year soundly.
Hardly makes Briles a better coach.

Briles is a good coach--and he's also blessed with being in possibly the number one recruiting territory in the nation while WVU is in about the most difficult position in the majors in that regard. He also has something you are hoping to take from WVU and that is time in the coaching seat. Briles went 4-8, 4-8, and 7-6 prior to getting things going with RGIII btw. If he were at WVU he'd have been booted before any possible success.

Holgorsen is regarded as one of the top offensive minds in the country by about everyone except the negative nellies here that want to blow everything up because they want to dismiss all the major changes WVU has gone through and the level of depth and talent on the roster.

Everyone wants to win right now, but one also has to be realistic about the situation. The BIG 12 is an extremely tough football conference. WVU has lost to two undefeated top 25 teams--one in overtime and one ranked in the top two or three--on the road. A third is a historical power, the game was there, they are top 15 and have but one loss in season to another BIG 12 power.

No one can work miracles and WVU needs to continue recruiting and recruiting better to move up the food chain regardless of the coach.

Do you really see Dana Holgorsen becoming a successful head coach at P5 school? If you do that's great, more power to you. However, the penalties, turnovers, lack of attention to detail, and special teams blunders are a disturbing trend after FIVE seasons.

You don't need to have great talent or depth to be a smart, disciplined football team, and we are about as far away from that as possible.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

You mean just like you compared a high-flying pass-heavy, ignore defense offensive system which Geno lived in for 2 years to the slow-n-low ground attack of Jeff Mullen in which Geno was hamstrung his first year as a starter on that other thread? Isn't Keaton's revisionist hypocrisy fun? Whee!

yawn.......... not even a remotely similar argument. But you keep taking up for unkie Jeff

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Obviously, Petty was better than Trickett. Obviously, Briles is better than Holgorsen. No one with a brain would debate either proposition.

These are not the real issues. The questions are what is acceptable for the remainder of this season not to go in a new direction and, if he meets those minimal accomplishments, how much longer will people be willing to accept such minimal standards as not completely sucking.

"accept such minimal standards as not completely sucking"

lol, No one has argued that Howard doesn't have accuracy issues............ but in half a season, he's thrown for over 1,500 yards and 15 TDs with a 60% rate and a 5:2 TD/INT ratio

"sucking" is not the word you're looking for

 

[Darth_VadEER]

When Briles came to Baylor he went 4-8, 4-8, 7-5.

He does appear to be an elite coach. I don't think Dana is, but he's not as bad as most want to believe.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

not to mention that half the "rise" that TCU and Baylor have made has been due to completely turning a blind eye crime, drugs, and everything else that their players get busted for all the time.....

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

When Briles came to Baylor he went 4-8, 4-8, 7-5.

He does appear to be an elite coach. I don't think Dana is, but he's not as bad as most want to believe.

"Not bad enough to get fired, but not good enough to be extended and erase doubts about his future."

Sometimes it's better to completely suck so you can remove all doubt that you made a bad hire than to be mediocre and still not be sure one way or another.

I don't agree with that because I'd never root for our team to lose games, but many "fans" do.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Do you really see Dana Holgorsen becoming a successful head coach at P5 school? If you do that's great, more power to you. However, the penalties, turnovers, lack of attention to detail, and special teams blunders are a disturbing trend after FIVE seasons.

You don't need to have great talent or depth to be a smart, disciplined football team, and we are about as far away from that as possible.

Well he's already been a HC for 5 years at a P5 school, has won an Orange Bowl and collected a few other big wins and put players into the NFL. Success is subjective but you could argue he already is.

 

[GoWVU]

yawn.......... not even a remotely similar argument. But you keep taking up for unkie Jeff

Yawn.........I can see the board's Hypocrite-in-Chief failed reading comprehension. I don't think there was a single soul on this board who ever took up for Jeff Mullen. Even DeForest has more fans.

But you keep denying your "analytical" hypocrisy every time you're called out on it, Keaton, and claiming it's "not even a remotely similar argument" even though it is. Denial makes it all go away, so you can keep claiming "I won the Internet!" I'm sure it will keep you warm on the nights Uncle Dana doesn't call you and need to be cuddled.[roll]

 

[Samuel S]

"accept such minimal standards as not completely sucking"

lol, No one has argued that Howard doesn't have accuracy issues............ but in half a season, he's thrown for over 1,500 yards and 15 TDs with a 60% rate and a 5:2 TD/INT ratio

"sucking" is not the word you're looking for

My post made no mention of Howard or alluded to him. I was talking about the results we get from Dana meeting no benchmark above not completely sucking.. Revealing, though, that YOU saw the word and immediately thought of Howard.

I've already informed you that I think you are an imbecile of the lowest order and that you have no clue as to how to use statistics validly to support your positions. The same word comes to mind when I think of your posts.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

My post made no mention of Howard or alluded to him. I was talking about the results we get from Dana meeting no benchmark above not completely sucking.. Revealing, though, that YOU saw the word and immediately thought of Howard.

I've already informed you that I think you are an imbecile of the lowest order and that you have no clue as to how to use statistics validly to support your positions. The same word comes to mind when I think of your posts.

lol, it is a thread DIRECTLY discussing the QB play.................. to imply "completely sucking" per your statement towards the actual topic was the only rational move............. but this is what happens when folks don't know what they're talking about and then I bring in facts. "Oh, I wasn't talking about that........"

 

[Samuel S]

Not even feeble, son.

 

[GoWVU]

Briles went 4-8, 4-8, and 7-6 prior to getting things going with RGIII btw. If he were at WVU he'd have been booted before any possible success.

Another straw man which is completely false that somehow keeps getting rolled out every time someone wants to defend Holgorsen.

Our own actions as an administration demonstrate that this "argument" is a complete lie. Holgorsen hasn't had anywhere near the success Briles had at a similar point--and yet he's still employed as the head coach here.

 

[wvpaper]

At this point in the season, Nick Florence was leading a team that was 3-4......... had a 64% completion rate...... 22TDs/11 INTS (2:10)........ and had lost to: Texas and Iowa State (both teams beaten by Dana that season)

meanwhile, Howard is 3-3 with 15 TDs/6 INTs (5:2) and has lost to 3 undefeated teams........throwing a 60% completion rate


So if Howard stinks....... so did Florence................ isn't revisionist history fun?!!!

RG3 - Geno
Petty - Trickett
Florence - Howard
Russell - verdict is still out

you certainly must think so

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Another straw man which is completely false that somehow keeps getting rolled out every time someone wants to defend Holgorsen.

Our own actions as an administration demonstrate that this "argument" is a complete lie. Holgorsen hasn't had anywhere near the success Briles had at a similar point--and yet he's still employed as the head coach here.

Briles was 33-30 by the end of his 5th season........... one 10-win season. 2 losing season.......... and that is after 6 year at Houston as a HC

Meanwhile, Dana is 31-26 in his 5th season.............. one 10-win season. 1 losing season............... despite no previous HC experience to learn from.


Your butt hurt is immense.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

Holgorsen beat Briles in 2 of the 5 contests--last year soundly.
Hardly makes Briles a better coach.

Briles is a good coach--and he's also blessed with being in possibly the number one recruiting territory in the nation while WVU is in about the most difficult position in the majors in that regard. He also has something you are hoping to take from WVU and that is time in the coaching seat. Briles went 4-8, 4-8, and 7-6 prior to getting things going with RGIII btw. If he were at WVU he'd have been booted before any possible success.

Holgorsen is regarded as one of the top offensive minds in the country by about everyone except the negative nellies here that want to blow everything up because they want to dismiss all the major changes WVU has gone through and the level of depth and talent on the roster.

Everyone wants to win right now, but one also has to be realistic about the situation. The BIG 12 is an extremely tough football conference. WVU has lost to two undefeated top 25 teams--one in overtime and one ranked in the top two or three--on the road. A third is a historical power, the game was there, they are top 15 and have but one loss in season to another BIG 12 power.

No one can work miracles and WVU needs to continue recruiting and recruiting better to move up the food chain regardless of the coach.

Briles also had a track record of being relatively successful as a head coach in HS and CUSA, something Dana lacked when he took the job. Houston and Baylor were both in disarray when Briles arrived.

Regardless, Dana has had more than a fair shake here. He was hand picked by an AD and has gotten 5 years to show what he can do after he replaced a man after 3 years that won games at a higher rate than Dana (also had a better bowl record).

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Briles also had a track record of being relatively successful as a head coach in HS and CUSA, something Dana lacked when he took the job. Houston and Baylor were both in disarray when Briles arrived.

Regardless, Dana has had more than a fair shake here. He was hand picked by an AD and has gotten 5 years to show what he can do after he replaced a man after 3 years that won games at a higher rate than Dana (also had a better bowl record).

lol....... Stewart was 1-2 as HC, just like Holgorsen........... This is where you say Fiesta Bowl, and I point out he was nothing but a patsy in that game.

The fact remains that Dana, in his one 7-win season last year, faced as many top 25, and more top 10 opponents than Stewart did in his 3 seasons combined............ our season last year was more impressive than any of the 9-win years that BS had...

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

lol, how about win/loss record? Really? A TEAM STAT to justify a one-to-one comparison?

Yes, Petty played on better teams during his college career.......... can't argue that. But as far as QB play, numbers don't lie unless you choose to ignore them

The NFL has decided which QB is better.

You should stick to basketball because you don't know much about football.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

lol....... Stewart was 1-2 as HC, just like Holgorsen........... This is where you say Fiesta Bowl, and I point out he was nothing but a patsy in that game.

The fact remains that Dana, in his one 7-win season last year, faced as many top 25, and more top 10 opponents than Stewart did in his 3 seasons combined............ our season last year was more impressive than any of the 9-win years that BS had...

I enjoyed bashing Bill Stewart as much as the next guy, but calling him a "patsy" for the biggest win of his career is just dumb. The man held the team together and they played the game of their lives, when it would have been so easy for the players to throw in the towel after the Pitt game and just say "f*ck it"

He might not have been calling the offensive plays, but he was coaching his *** off in that game.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

The NFL has decided which QB is better.

You should stick to basketball because you don't know much about football.

lol! The NFL drafted one guy over the other because of physical measurements......... No matter how good Trickett played, he was never going to be big enough or durable enough for the NFL ---- his own words mid season when he referenced playing in Canada...

You shouldn't stick......... just go.