Be interesting to see if Tunsil plays

57stratdawg

Heisman
Dec 1, 2004
148,433
24,213
113
Remeber, Freeze got told last year that that Tunsil has bigger concerns than OM football, and his family/camp would be making the decisions about playing through injuries.

Interesting dilemma with with one of the largest games in school history on deck.
 

coach66

Junior
Mar 5, 2009
12,693
318
83
He did not look eager to return to the

Battle. Super talented guy but he makes you wonder.
 

codeDawg

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
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36
Remeber, Freeze got told last year that that Tunsil has bigger concerns than OM football, and his family/camp would be making the decisions about playing through injuries.

Interesting dilemma with with one of the largest games in school history on deck.

He will be on the field playing the part of human turnstile. This game is already over. Their beat-up defense is going to allow a few points and Freeze will let Bad Bo sling it. Between the pressure AU will be bringing and Bo's decision making, we're in for a fun one.
 

AHSDawg

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He 'looks' very talented. I have yet to see him truly whip someone and have the hunger that I want in an OL. As an OL, I will again point out that TSUN rarely gives up sacks but that should not be a testament to the quality of their OL. They rarely run a pass play that requires the QB to hold the ball. All of the quick screens means that their OL must only maintain a block for 2-3 seconds. You see how many sacks they give up when the QB pulls the ball down. I am just not sold on him as a college OL. Sure, he has good feet and size but the want to just doesn't seem to drive him. How many times do you ever see him finish a block?
 

Reb_Among_Dogs

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Dec 16, 2013
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He 'looks' very talented. I have yet to see him truly whip someone and have the hunger that I want in an OL. As an OL, I will again point out that TSUN rarely gives up sacks but that should not be a testament to the quality of their OL. They rarely run a pass play that requires the QB to hold the ball. All of the quick screens means that their OL must only maintain a block for 2-3 seconds. You see how many sacks they give up when the QB pulls the ball down. I am just not sold on him as a college OL. Sure, he has good feet and size but the want to just doesn't seem to drive him. How many times do you ever see him finish a block?

Just wow. You can't really be that stupid?
 

futaba.79

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Jun 4, 2007
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If we could have two players off their team, I'm taking Tunsl ...........

and Prewitt. Tunsil is as good as it gets at sliding and shoving. Prewitt would be a great addition to our secondary
 

esplanade91

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Dec 9, 2010
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It's probably important to remember he's a true sophomore playing for an average OL coach. Ole Miss probably wasn't the best thing for his development but he'll get drafted early based on spurts of greatness.

When was the last time a true junior LT was taken in the draft? That's got to be a rarity, right? If you're drafting in the backend of a draft you've got to be in love with the idea of getting a 21 year old linemen in camp.
 

AlSwearengen

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Aug 22, 2012
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I don't know much about dline technique, but if I am a dlineman, I would be chopping at that arm every time he extended it to block me.

And if he has a partial tear of the bicep, and if reports that he and his camp are keeping him healthy until he is drafted are true, I don't see how he is going to be playing very much for the rest of the year. We will learn a lot about the Tunsil family's mindset in the next few weeks.
 

msstate7

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Is there a very big chance of a full tear by continuing to play? If so, how serious is that going forward?
 

AHSDawg

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Great response. If you took the time to read it (or have someone read it to you), you would see that I never said the guy wasn't talented. I am inferring that he is not being pushed to get better. He is a VERY rare talent at OL that is just playing on a team that doesn't require an OL to do much.

I am willing to bet a LOT that you do not truly know how to evaluate OL... And again, please point out where I said he wasn't good. He is very good. He has Orlando Pace type talent. However, NOTHING about him so far says Orlando Pace type desire to me.
 

AHSDawg

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A partial tear can be 'locked down' in a device in the knee that would prevent it from being torn completely. I do not know much about biceps but most NFL players do not risk it. Most take the 2-3 months and get completely recovered.
 

AHSDawg

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have a mean streak to go with talent? Hell yes.

I was the first to say that what Day did was dumb. You can be nasty on the football field without being so obvious and dumb about it. But, yes, I want a nasty streak all day long in my OL.
 

johnson86-1

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
14,369
4,872
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Great response. If you took the time to read it (or have someone read it to you), you would see that I never said the guy wasn't talented. I am inferring that he is not being pushed to get better. He is a VERY rare talent at OL that is just playing on a team that doesn't require an OL to do much.

I am willing to bet a LOT that you do not truly know how to evaluate OL... And again, please point out where I said he wasn't good. He is very good. He has Orlando Pace type talent. However, NOTHING about him so far says Orlando Pace type desire to me.

Well he'd given up 2 sacks through roughly 19 and 1/2 games (did he give up any more against LSU after he got hurt?) playing as a true freshman and true sophomore. Yeah they do a lot of quick passes but that still seems pretty damn good. If he did that without any desire, it's even more impressive.
 

msstate7

Redshirt
Nov 27, 2008
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38
OM as a team is 11th in the sec in sacks allowed. Tunsil not giving up many sacks tells me he's either really good or the guys around him are just really bad and give up the sack first. I think it's that he's good.

Their sacks allowed (#11 in the sec) vs our sacks (#1 in sec) gives me confidence heading into egg
 

Dawgg

Heisman
Sep 9, 2012
10,535
10,793
113
See: Gabe Jackson

I was the first to say that what Day did was dumb. You can be nasty on the football field without being so obvious and dumb about it. But, yes, I want a nasty streak all day long in my OL.

Punishing, physical, brutal, but without Albert Haynesworth-style idiocy.
 

Reb_Among_Dogs

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Dec 16, 2013
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Great response. If you took the time to read it (or have someone read it to you), you would see that I never said the guy wasn't talented. I am inferring that he is not being pushed to get better. He is a VERY rare talent at OL that is just playing on a team that doesn't require an OL to do much.

I am willing to bet a LOT that you do not truly know how to evaluate OL... And again, please point out where I said he wasn't good. He is very good. He has Orlando Pace type talent. However, NOTHING about him so far says Orlando Pace type desire to me.


Well alright, then let's look at what you said.



He 'looks' very talented.
This implies that he isn't very talented, he just 'looks' to be very talented. You are implying that to people who really know what talent is, he doesn't look talented.

I have yet to see him truly whip someone
There is plenty of film out there of him "whipping" someone. In fact, at least once a game they will do a replay of him "whipping" someone. Right at the line, out in space blocking, etc. But then again, maybe it just 'looks' like he is whipping them.

and have the hunger that I want in an OL.
How are you defining this? From all reports I have seen, he is constantly working on and off the field, in the wight room, in the film room, etc. But you must be much more involved in his day-to-day life and know that he just doesn't have that "hunger" you are looking for.

As an OL, I will again point out that TSUN rarely gives up sacks but that should not be a testament to the quality of their OL.
I agree that our OL as a whole is a weak unit. But I would point out that many teams have completely given up even rushing off of Tunsil's side because of how dominant he is. But the defensive coaches must not know what to 'look' for.

They rarely run a pass play that requires the QB to hold the ball.
You realize that most pass plays don't require the QB to hold the ball, right? The majority of pass plays are quick three step drop and release. The only times that a pass play requires the QB to hold it longer than that are for long developing routes like deep corners or wheel routes. Those are rarely targeted by an QB.

Of course, there are also play-actions which increase the amount of time that the QB is holding onto the ball (and it is usually coupled with a longer-developing route). Wait a minute. The majority of Ole Miss' pass plays are off play-action. But that doesn't make any sense because AHSDawg says that Ole Miss rarely runs medium- to long-timed pass plays. Well he must be right.

All of the quick screens means that their OL must only maintain a block for 2-3 seconds.
Have you even watched any of our games this year? We run quick screens MAYBE three times a game.

You see how many sacks they give up when the QB pulls the ball down.
No I don't see. Do you have a number for this? A statistic that you can point anyone to? Or do you just know what to 'look' for?

I am just not sold on him as a college OL.
But boy howdy you sure didn't say he wasn't talented.

Sure, he has good feet and size
Nope, you still aren't implying that he isn't talented. No siree. He's just lucky to have good feet and size.

but the want to just doesn't seem to drive him. How many times do you ever see him finish a block?
I see him finish blocks every single play.

So, like I said, you can't be really be that stupid?
 

AHSDawg

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Both of these are true. Again, I did not say nor mean to infer that Tunsil isn't good. He is. He has great feet. He has great length and a perfect frame for an OL. Now, again, I truly appreciate the OL position. I venture that there aren't many casual fans that like it as much as I do.

If you will pay close attention to TSUN's offense, you would see that they do not run 10 plays per game where a sack is even possible. The ball is out of the QBs hands (whether a run or a quick pass) within 3 seconds. It is almost impossible to get a sack on that type of play.

And yes, the fact that the are still giving up that many sacks per game is a VERY good sign for us. They have 3 players on their OL that should not be playing football in D-1. That is why we have a very good shot.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
57,030
26,624
113
Well, we know the other guys on that OL are pretty bad. I'm not completely sure the "only 2 sacks allowed" stat is completely accurate though. It's not like there's an official stat for that. It's just a number the UM football staff put out there at the end of last season. I'm sure they would never fudge on a stat like that to make one of their highly recruited players look better. That said, there's no doubt the guy is a hell of a college OL when he is able to (and wants to ) play.
 

Reb_Among_Dogs

Redshirt
Dec 16, 2013
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Well, we know the other guys on that OL are pretty bad. I'm not completely sure the "only 2 sacks allowed" stat is completely accurate though. It's not like there's an official stat for that. It's just a number the UM football staff put out there at the end of last season. I'm sure they would never fudge on a stat like that to make one of their highly recruited players look better. That said, there's no doubt the guy is a hell of a college OL when he is able to (and wants to ) play.

There isn't an official stat for it, just like there isn't an "official" stat for tackles, but ESPN tracks it for use by their Stats & Info department. They have said during the "key players" parts of games that Tunsil has only allowed 2. It's not from the school.

I know the first was last season on the last offensive play against Auburn. The other was sometime this year, but I'm not sure of when.
 

AHSDawg

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I quit reading when you said TSUN runs only 3 quick screens/game.. Sorry. You are really struggling with film if that is what you believe. I have given you a lot of information in this thread about Tunsil. Go back and read the rest. Or Don't, I couldn't care less. Fact is this. He will go pro next year. He will become a very good OL in the NFL if he works EVERY play with his size and talent. He will be really successful. And, people like me will be able to look back at his college career and say, "man, our DL outplayed an NFL level OL because his coaches either didn't make him work or he was too big for the program to allow them to make him work". He is a great talent. No ifs, ands or buts about it. He just doesn't play like it. Take it for what you will.
 

AHSDawg

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Just FYI. Don't trust what the announcers tell you as fact... A guy I went to high school went (and went on to be an All American at TSUN) was touted as being 1st team All State in Basketball, baseball and football... He was a decent high school baseball player (.245 avg, no homers, 20 RBIs) that never sniffed any All State baseball teams and played on the basketball team as a Freshman, never did again...

Not trying to say that the stat isn't true. Just saying that if you are getting that from a broadcast, I would never take that as gospel. And yes, those stats DO typically come from the school (SID)
 
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thf24

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Jan 28, 2011
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That "sacks allowed" stat has never carried much weight with me. Sometimes a sack goes to the last guy to touch the sacking defender even if he wasn't his primary assignment, and sometimes it's not counted against a guy if the sack is deemed to be the QB's fault for holding the ball too long. One of the most "judgement" influenced stats in the books, and one that's easily susceptible to bias as you say.
 

AHSDawg

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Indeed. As in my 2 mins of research found 3 completely different stats for us. One ranks us as #81, another at #111, another at 60 something. And yes, with their not being an exact science to the stat, that leaves the school to make up what they want to in regards to touting their player
 

Reb_Among_Dogs

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Dec 16, 2013
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I quit reading when you said TSUN runs only 3 quick screens/game.. Sorry. You are really struggling with film if that is what you believe. I have given you a lot of information in this thread about Tunsil. Go back and read the rest. Or Don't, I couldn't care less. Fact is this. He will go pro next year. He will become a very good OL in the NFL if he works EVERY play with his size and talent. He will be really successful. And, people like me will be able to look back at his college career and say, "man, our DL outplayed an NFL level OL because his coaches either didn't make him work or he was too big for the program to allow them to make him work". He is a great talent. No ifs, ands or buts about it. He just doesn't play like it. Take it for what you will.

Please go through the film and point out each screen pass that we have run. I'll wait. I have watched every second of Ole Miss football and know one of the athletic interns that charts every game. I'm seeing two against LSU, three against Alabama. I don't have the charts for the other games, but he told me average just under three a game.

But I'm sure you know more about it.
 

Reb_Among_Dogs

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Dec 16, 2013
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Just FYI. Don't trust what the announcers tell you as fact... A guy I went to high school went (and went on to be an All American at TSUN) was touted as being 1st team All State in Basketball, baseball and football... He was a decent high school baseball player (.245 avg, no homers, 20 RBIs) that never sniffed any All State baseball teams and played on the basketball team as a Freshman, never did again...

Not trying to say that the stat isn't true. Just saying that if you are getting that from a broadcast, I would never take that as gospel. And yes, those stats DO typically come from the school (SID)

You do realize that ESPN has interns chart every major game, right? That includes all SEC games. The only Ole Miss games that ESPN relies on Ole Miss for stats-wise are nonconference games (with some exceptions, like Ole Miss vs Boise State). ESPN Stats & Info department is not depending on Ole Miss for Ole Miss stats. They are for Southern Miss mostly, but not any SEC team.

Why? Because ESPN tracks FAR more than the individual schools do.
 

paindonthurt_

All-Conference
Jun 27, 2009
9,528
2,046
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You did say you weren't sold on him as a college OL. He is most definitely a good OL and had NFL talent. Could he be a lot better with effort and desire? Abosolutely.

Unreal that he basically asked to come out of the game against LSU when Ole Miss was up 7 to 3.
 

AHSDawg

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You are really being obtuse here. Obviously, a screen isn't always called a screen. You can call it what you want. I am speaking of a snap to the QB, turn and throws it to the outside. You can call it XYZ Banana Split but it is a quick screen. Y'all do not run nearly as many as you did last year but the point is there. You throw it horizontally within 3 seconds of the snap on 85% of your passes. Please stop trying so hard here. You aren't making it better for your argument.
 

AHSDawg

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I do know this... And, I too have a friend that has worked with the football

team at TSUN and my friend never played football before in his life and is writing exactly what he is told to write. I imagine he is very similar to your friend. I have nothing against my friend but his eyes would glaze over if I began to break down what an OL does on every play and why they do it. About the same way my wife's do when I rewind plays 5 times to watch each OL on the play... But, good talk.
 

AHSDawg

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To clarify, I am not sold on him at his current 'effort' level. Without a doubt, he is a superior specimen. If he had Gabe Jackson's level of nastiness, NFL execs wouldn't even let him play next season.
 

Reb_Among_Dogs

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Dec 16, 2013
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You are really being obtuse here. Obviously, a screen isn't always called a screen. You can call it what you want. I am speaking of a snap to the QB, turn and throws it to the outside. You can call it XYZ Banana Split but it is a quick screen. Y'all do not run nearly as many as you did last year but the point is there. You throw it horizontally within 3 seconds of the snap on 85% of your passes. Please stop trying so hard here. You aren't making it better for your argument.

So in your mind a quick slant by the far receiver is a screen because there is a "quick snap to the QB, turn and (throw) to the outside"? And a hitch? Those are all screens regardless of what anyone else (read: every other football person ever) calls them?
 

AHSDawg

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This is my last attempt with you. Obviously, the discussion is about the fact that TSUN runs quick passes that do not require their OLs to protect long. I really admire the way you have sought to create absurdity. Good luck to you. Quick screen, quick slant, hitch. ANY PASS PLAY THAT REQUIRES LESS THAN 3 SECONDS FOR THE QB TO THROW THE BALL. There. Is that better?
 

DancingRabbit

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Mar 3, 2008
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CL said Bo was 9 of 10 on passes 5 yds or less, 2 of 11 on passes 15 yds plus

5 of 8 between 6-14 yds. 4 passes were batted down.

If those numbers are correct, that appears to back up your point.

But, maybe y'all should be throwing more quick screens. Your offense has been pretty anemic at times.
 

Reb_Among_Dogs

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5 of 8 between 6-14 yds. 4 passes were batted down.

If those numbers are correct, that appears to back up your point.

But, maybe y'all should be throwing more quick screens. Your offense has been pretty anemic at times.

Good golly gee, AHS, it appears that even another MSU fan is pointing out the numbers back up what I am saying: only a minority of Ole Miss' pass plays are "quick passes".

Rabbit, I agree that I think we should include it a bit more than we have been, but I'm not the one going over all of the film of the opponent and up in the booth on gameday. If Freeze and Werner think other plays are more effective, then I'll yield to them on that. It's not like Freeze just dislikes screens, obviously.
 

AHSDawg

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Wow, you are dense. At best that means that half of your throws were 5 yards or less. However, you are too dense to remember that you threw every pass on the last drive beyond the 15 yard mark...

Let me try to help you one more time. I promise I am done after this.

your QB attempted 33 passes on Saturday for 176 yards. That is 5.3 yards per attempt. He completed 14 for a 12.57 AVERAGE PER COMPLETION... Tell me again how TSUN doesn't like to throw short passes, please.

Have to add this just so you cannot miss it...

The YARDS PER COMPLETION WOULD ALSO INCLUDE YARDS AFTER A CATCH...
 

AHSDawg

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Sep 18, 2012
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Just for kicks. Here are Dak's numbers in that awful Death Valley

15-24 for 268. 11.2 yards per attempt, 17.87 per completion... And that is in a game where 1 1/2 quarters were being salted away with a huge lead.