Because it is all about winning......

[LTHSALUM76]

Everyone has a preference as to where they would like to live. No one will ever find the perfect place. No matter where a person lives there will be good and bad. And I suppose with some places there is more good or bad. But the place where I will choose to live in my later years will be based on my personal experience there. It won't be based on the perception of others.

I am leaving Illinois mainly for fiscal reasons, like the majority of people do, who do leave. This state is a fiscal mess, we are way over taxed and it won't change in my lifetime and probably not in my kids' lifetimes either. This state is the laughing stock of the rest of the country as far as finances go. I am tired of throwing my tax money down the drain here. It isn't the weather that makes me want to leave.

I like the change of seasons and I like winter. That part won't be easy to leave if we leave for warmer weather. I like going to the professional sports stadiums, but it would never be a reason for me to stay.

I know a ton of people who have left this state and, right now, I can't think of any who have returned. Everyone of them tell me it's the best decision they ever made.

 

[Cross Bones]

The states in the "Deep South" surely have a certain lack of appeal for several reasons. However, some states in the "Mid-South" are very attractive. For example, many of the northern counties of west and central Arkansas near the elevation of the Ozark Mts. are very nice. Also, areas of Tennessee containing the Smoky Mts., away from the touristy towns of Gatlinburg and Sevierville are beautiful.

I've gone down to Cairo and looked over the edge and it is aesthetically pleasing. I won't dispute that.

 

[LTHSALUM76]

Just to add a little more. It's funny how pre-conceived notions can influence people. I have been lucky enough to have traveled to 49 states. You know, you get to talking to people and you tell each other where you are from, etc. I tell people I am from Lockport, about 30 miles southwest of Chicago. There have been many times I have had people say, "oh my God. Chicago? How can you stand it there? Their pre-conceived notion is that gunfire erupts 24 hours a day. I have had people actually laugh at me when I tell them I am from Illinois. Make no mistake. People out there are saying as many bad things about us and our state as we are about them.

A few years ago we visited family in Marietta, GA. My younger son was, at that time, into The Walking Dead. While we were there we visited a very small town called Grantville. I guess an episode of the show was shot there. They had free tours and the mayor told me people come from all over the country for the tours.

My initial impression of the town wasn't very good. We went into a bar that smelled of must and was dank. Everything just seemed so outdated and the town seemed poor. But I met a woman who moved there from Las Vegas. She loved it there and said she would never return. At first I couldn't understand that. then I realized it wasn't my place to judge her choice or to understand it. The takeaway for me was the people there were very friendly and accommodating.

 

[crusader_of_90]

I was in Vegas last week - met with a competitor of mine for a job interview. I'd be based out of Marietta, where my sister and her family live, as well as my mom. They live in the foothills of the mountain and it's absolutely gorgeous.

I hope I get the job.

 

[Cross Bones]

Just to add a little more. It's funny how pre-conceived notions can influence people. I have been lucky enough to have traveled to 49 states. You know, you get to talking to people and you tell each other where you are from, etc. I tell people I am from Lockport, about 30 miles southwest of Chicago. There have been many times I have had people say, "oh my God. Chicago? How can you stand it there? Their pre-conceived notion is that gunfire erupts 24 hours a day. I have had people actually laugh at me when I tell them I am from Illinois. Make no mistake. People out there are saying as many bad things about us and our state as we are about them.

A few years ago we visited family in Marietta, GA. My younger son was, at that time, into The Walking Dead. While we were there we visited a very small town called Grantville. I guess an episode of the show was shot there. They had free tours and the mayor told me people come from all over the country for the tours.

My initial impression of the town wasn't very good. We went into a bar that smelled of must and was dank. Everything just seemed so outdated and the town seemed poor. But I met a woman who moved there from Las Vegas. She loved it there and said she would never return. At first I couldn't understand that. then I realized it wasn't my place to judge her choice or to understand it. The takeaway for me was the people there were very friendly and accommodating.

That's all well and good. I just see a lot of people complaining about the taxes, which is fine I suppose. I'd just rather pay high taxes than be in a Confederate state. Wouldn't even have to think about it. Not enough has changed since the 60's.

 

[Normdog]

That's all well and good. I just see a lot of people complaining about the taxes, which is fine I suppose. I'd just rather pay high taxes than be in a Confederate state. Wouldn't even have to think about it. Not enough has changed since the 60's.

Bones, I am going to completely disagree (respectfully) with you. Taxes are a huge issue. Taxes are a confiscation of money from a taxpayers pocket. We live in a society in which taxes (confiscation) pay for basic government services, which is a fair deal in most locations, as long as said taxes are relatively reasonable. No one can reasonably expect to have government services for free. What is not a fair deal is when said taxes are outsized against comparative entities (other states).

Now take your (Bones) real estate bill and look at it. Look at the amount on it, now take and pick out a couple of states you would consider desirable, say AZ, Texas (parts of it), FL (parts of it), CO, SC, NC, etc. and look at houses there that are the same value as yours (price) and look at the R.E. tax bill. What you will find is the R.E. tax bill is 50%-75% LESS, but, lets stick with 50% less in other desirable stats.

What money represents is freedom, the more you have coming in compared to your expenses is the freedom to make decisions based upon what you choose to do. The less money you have in relation to your expenses because you are paying too much for taxes the less freedom you have to make choices. I am not a wild eye all taxes are bad guy, just a keep it reasonable guy.

For example, lets go back to your T.E. bill, look at that amount. Now lets do a simple exercise. When do you realistically want to retire? 65? Maybe you are super prudent, sacrificed and socked away extra $ and want to retire at 60? Very good. Now how long do you realistically plan on living? 80? 85?. OK, so lets say it is 20 years past the time you retire. So take the amount of your current R.E. bill and multiply it by 20 (years), what is the amount? $150k? $200k? Now if you are living in one of those other states, that amount is HALF so $75k - $100k+ DIFFERENCE. How many extra years do you have to work (and save) to be able to fund that difference in your retirement? What is it? three years, five, 10 years? For what? so that those yahoos in your town, school district or in Springfield can spend that extra money? you are going to work an extra 3 - 10 years, not to help your family (which we all would do) but to help those f'ing politicians? And that does not even take into account the 5% R.E. taxes are going up here. Or the real bomb that is going to go off in the next 5-8 years when the pension issue really hits.

We did this calculation and decided, no thanks, we are out of here in two years when the kids are all in college. I am not working 3-10 years extra to pay a bunch of jackasses, we have choices and we are going to exercise them.

Not meaning to get all preachy on the issue and everyone can make their own choices, just explaining ours. And you know what, the door won't hit me in the *** (MC), because I will be through it too fast to hit me on the back swing. The politicians in this state rely on the residents to be too much like the frogs in the heating up pot, if the heat goes up slowly they don't jump until they are boiled.

 

[Cross Bones]

Bones, I am going to completely disagree (respectfully) with you. Taxes are a huge issue. Taxes are a confiscation of money from a taxpayers pocket. We live in a society in which taxes (confiscation) pay for basic government services, which is a fair deal in most locations, as long as said taxes are relatively reasonable. No one can reasonably expect to have government services for free. What is not a fair deal is when said taxes are outsized against comparative entities (other states).

Now take your (Bones) real estate bill and look at it. Look at the amount on it, now take and pick out a couple of states you would consider desirable, say AZ, Texas (parts of it), FL (parts of it), CO, SC, NC, etc. and look at houses there that are the same value as yours (price) and look at the R.E. tax bill. What you will find is the R.E. tax bill is 50%-75% LESS, but, lets stick with 50% less in other desirable stats.

What money represents is freedom, the more you have coming in compared to your expenses is the freedom to make decisions based upon what you choose to do. The less money you have in relation to your expenses because you are paying too much for taxes the less freedom you have to make choices. I am not a wild eye all taxes are bad guy, just a keep it reasonable guy.

For example, lets go back to your T.E. bill, look at that amount. Now lets do a simple exercise. When do you realistically want to retire? 65? Maybe you are super prudent, sacrificed and socked away extra $ and want to retire at 60? Very good. Now how long do you realistically plan on living? 80? 85?. OK, so lets say it is 20 years past the time you retire. So take the amount of your current R.E. bill and multiply it by 20 (years), what is the amount? $150k? $200k? Now if you are living in one of those other states, that amount is HALF so $75k - $100k+ DIFFERENCE. How many extra years do you have to work (and save) to be able to fund that difference in your retirement? What is it? three years, five, 10 years? For what? so that those yahoos in your town, school district or in Springfield can spend that extra money? you are going to work an extra 3 - 10 years, not to help your family (which we all would do) but to help those f'ing politicians? And that does not even take into account the 5% R.E. taxes are going up here. Or the real bomb that is going to go off in the next 5-8 years when the pension issue really hits.

We did this calculation and decided, no thanks, we are out of here in two years when the kids are all in college. I am not working 3-10 years extra to pay a bunch of jackasses, we have choices and we are going to exercise them.

Not meaning to get all preachy on the issue and everyone can make their own choices, just explaining ours. And you know what, the door won't hit me in the *** (MC), because I will be through it too fast to hit me on the back swing. The politicians in this state rely on the residents to be too much like the frogs in the heating up pot, if the heat goes up slowly they don't jump until they are boiled.

I understand all that. Taxes are the premium I am willing to pay to not have people in my neighborhood chanting, "Jews will not replace us." Taxes are the premium I am willing to pay to not look at Confederate statues everyday. Taxes are the premium I am willing to pay to not have creation taught in science classes in public schools. Sure I wish our taxes went to better stuff in general, state and federal, but that's not the world we live in.

We all have different priorities. People are more comfortable around different things, and that's okay. The elote truck doesn't bother me at all, I appreciate it and support it with purchases. I don't know buddy's status, but I don't want him gone. I carry, but I don't feel like I need assault rifles (if i lived in a Confederate state I would and would probably be real jumpy).

The point about retirement is a legit point. My point is if I were to leave Illinois, which I've considered for various reasons, it more than likely won't be for a Confederate state or a rural area elsewhere.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I understand all that. Taxes are the premium I am willing to pay to not have people in my neighborhood chanting, "Jews will not replace us." Taxes are the premium I am willing to pay to not look at Confederate statues everyday. Taxes are the premium I am willing to pay to not have creation taught in science classes in public schools. Sure I wish our taxes went to better stuff in general, state and federal, but that's not the world we live in.

We all have different priorities. People are more comfortable around different things, and that's okay. The elote truck doesn't bother me at all, I appreciate it and support it with purchases. I don't know buddy's status, but I don't want him gone. I carry, but I don't feel like I need assault rifles (if i lived in a Confederate state I would and would probably be real jumpy).

The point about retirement is a legit point. My point is if I were to leave Illinois, which I've considered for various reasons, it more than likely won't be for a Confederate state or a rural area elsewhere.

West coast is nice!

In the south - ATL and Charlotte are good cities in my opinion.

Agree with the Deep South - not my cup of tea.

When our last is in College we thinking of bolting as well. I need to be in reasonable commutable distance to Chicago and we have a small office in Charlotte NC - so we were thinking Charlotte. I just hope the state of Illinois can hold it together for another 5to6 years so we leave before the wheels fall off.

 

[Normdog]

I understand all that. Taxes are the premium I am willing to pay to not have people in my neighborhood chanting, "Jews will not replace us." Taxes are the premium I am willing to pay to not look at Confederate statues everyday. Taxes are the premium I am willing to pay to not have creation taught in science classes in public schools. Sure I wish our taxes went to better stuff in general, state and federal, but that's not the world we live in.

We all have different priorities. People are more comfortable around different things, and that's okay. The elote truck doesn't bother me at all, I appreciate it and support it with purchases. I don't know buddy's status, but I don't want him gone. I carry, but I don't feel like I need assault rifles (if i lived in a Confederate state I would and would probably be real jumpy).

The point about retirement is a legit point. My point is if I were to leave Illinois, which I've considered for various reasons, it more than likely won't be for a Confederate state or a rural area elsewhere.

Bones, I understand your sentiments and no one wants to live around that, but, also think that within all states (well most, ND is tough) there are great areas and not so great areas. I am old enough to remember the Nazis marching through Skokie as well as to have lived and sold a house in a neighborhood in Chicago where my neighbors took down my For Sale sign and asked me not to put it back up so that the "wrong" type of people were not drawn to the neighborhood. Narrowmindness exist everywhere. Not getting into Fed. income tax (that exist everywhere) and sales tax, as most states have it. It is just the R.E. taxes that chaff me. It is fair to have them, it is not fair to pay exorbitant amounts. The scary part is it is going to get much much worse in ILL.

 

[Cross Bones]

I kid you not, I always rented until buying my first house a few years back. The ink wasn't even dry before I got an increase in my property tax. I understand the frustration. My thing is, there are worse things, and those things are more prevalent in Confederate states. That's why they're Confederate states. Look at some of the stats on those places. There's a reason they cost less to live and it's the same reason Wolfschmidt vodka costs less than Grey Goose.

@Voodoo Tatum 21 I love it out west: Cali, Phoenix area, Portland, and Seattle I love them all. But I have a cousin who decided to pack up and move to Billings, MT. I don't have the words for it.

 

[Normdog]

I kid you not, I always rented until buying my first house a few years back. The ink wasn't even dry before I got an increase in my property tax. I understand the frustration. My thing is, there are worse things, and those things are more prevalent in Confederate states. That's why they're Confederate states. Look at some of the stats on those places. There's a reason they cost less to live and it's the same reason Wolfschmidt vodka costs less than Grey Goose.

@Voodoo Tatum 21 I love it out west: Cali, Phoenix area, Portland, and Seattle I love them all. But I have a cousin who decided to pack up and move to Billings, MT. I don't have the words for it.

Most of my family has emigrated to Colorado, at some point we will probably end up there, but, therein is my prime example. My brother through a lot of hard work and a frugal lifestyle, owns 5 properties (4 in CO, 1 in FL) 4 in CO (his residence, 1 rental house, a 3 unit apartment building, 1 commercial rental) and 1 in FL (modest house) combined they add up to 3x the market value of my house, combined their RE taxes are about 20% less than mine. It is just a stark choice.

When I say most of my family,I do mean most (my parents, 3 sets of Aunts and Uncles, 2 brothers and even my Grandmother, who moved when she was 82 years old), prior to that my family had been in ILL for over 100 years, when I leave, that will be it. It is a shame but they have run this state into the ground. When we sell our current residence, which we have had for 16 years, it will be for about what we paid for it. There is a reason for the stagnation in market value in the state. Again, unfortunately.

 

[Cross Bones]

I haven't been to Denver outside of a layover in the airport, but have only heard good things (I know you said Colorado, but I only do populated areas). It's kind of away from what we were talking about, which was Alabama. I do find it odd that people who live and work here would remain living and working here when there are so many better options out there. It seems counter-intuitive.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I kid you not, I always rented until buying my first house a few years back. The ink wasn't even dry before I got an increase in my property tax. I understand the frustration. My thing is, there are worse things, and those things are more prevalent in Confederate states. That's why they're Confederate states. Look at some of the stats on those places. There's a reason they cost less to live and it's the same reason Wolfschmidt vodka costs less than Grey Goose.

@Voodoo Tatum 21 I love it out west: Cali, Phoenix area, Portland, and Seattle I love them all. But I have a cousin who decided to pack up and move to Billings, MT. I don't have the words for it.

Yeah! Can’t go wrong with most of the West - Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, SD. When I retire - I’m going to find my way back there!! (Probably not SF as it is out of my price range)

Billings? Wow just a tad too rural for me (10 hours from any major city) but it is very pretty out there. Montana and Wyoming are the Alaska of the continental United States.

 

[LTHSALUM76]

Bones, I am going to completely disagree (respectfully) with you. Taxes are a huge issue. Taxes are a confiscation of money from a taxpayers pocket. We live in a society in which taxes (confiscation) pay for basic government services, which is a fair deal in most locations, as long as said taxes are relatively reasonable. No one can reasonably expect to have government services for free. What is not a fair deal is when said taxes are outsized against comparative entities (other states).

Now take your (Bones) real estate bill and look at it. Look at the amount on it, now take and pick out a couple of states you would consider desirable, say AZ, Texas (parts of it), FL (parts of it), CO, SC, NC, etc. and look at houses there that are the same value as yours (price) and look at the R.E. tax bill. What you will find is the R.E. tax bill is 50%-75% LESS, but, lets stick with 50% less in other desirable stats.

What money represents is freedom, the more you have coming in compared to your expenses is the freedom to make decisions based upon what you choose to do. The less money you have in relation to your expenses because you are paying too much for taxes the less freedom you have to make choices. I am not a wild eye all taxes are bad guy, just a keep it reasonable guy.

For example, lets go back to your T.E. bill, look at that amount. Now lets do a simple exercise. When do you realistically want to retire? 65? Maybe you are super prudent, sacrificed and socked away extra $ and want to retire at 60? Very good. Now how long do you realistically plan on living? 80? 85?. OK, so lets say it is 20 years past the time you retire. So take the amount of your current R.E. bill and multiply it by 20 (years), what is the amount? $150k? $200k? Now if you are living in one of those other states, that amount is HALF so $75k - $100k+ DIFFERENCE. How many extra years do you have to work (and save) to be able to fund that difference in your retirement? What is it? three years, five, 10 years? For what? so that those yahoos in your town, school district or in Springfield can spend that extra money? you are going to work an extra 3 - 10 years, not to help your family (which we all would do) but to help those f'ing politicians? And that does not even take into account the 5% R.E. taxes are going up here. Or the real bomb that is going to go off in the next 5-8 years when the pension issue really hits.

We did this calculation and decided, no thanks, we are out of here in two years when the kids are all in college. I am not working 3-10 years extra to pay a bunch of jackasses, we have choices and we are going to exercise them.

Not meaning to get all preachy on the issue and everyone can make their own choices, just explaining ours. And you know what, the door won't hit me in the *** (MC), because I will be through it too fast to hit me on the back swing. The politicians in this state rely on the residents to be too much like the frogs in the heating up pot, if the heat goes up slowly they don't jump until they are boiled.

Excellent. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[woody6]

Yeah! Can’t go wrong with most of the West - Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, SD. When I retire - I’m going to find my way back there!! (Probably not SF as it is out of my price range).

I need some help judging Seattle. Visited 1st time early last June and maybe I missed something:

• traffic was horrendous
• the area around the Space Needle was deserted after dark
• many establishments around the Pike Street Market closed up rather early after fresh fish sales stopped for the day.

Should I give it another chance?

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I need some help judging Seattle. Visited 1st time early last June and maybe I missed something:

• traffic was horrendous
• the area around the Space Needle was deserted after dark
• many establishments around the Pike Street Market closed up rather early after fresh fish sales stopped for the day.

Should I give it another chance?

Definitely give it another chance.

Yes traffic is hoorendous. Nothing can be done about that. Puget sound on one side, lake Washington and lake union in the middle and cascade mountains on the other side. It will cost billions to put in mass transit that can go around over and thru those natural barriers. Lake Washington is so deep in parts that they have to use floating bridges as they Cant put concrete columns that deep.


Daytime - space needle,EMP, pike place, pier
Also take puget sound boat tour, also could take lake Washington boat tour (they used to go by Gates mansion on lake Washington). Can also take Day hikes in Olympic mountains or cascade mountains. I recommend Mount Si for a day hike. Also visit Snoqualmie falls. Maybe stay 1 nite at Salish Lodge by Snoqualmie falls.

Night life: it’s been awhile since I’ve done the night life in a big way in Seattle but Go to pioneer square area for the nightlife/restaurants. In another area of the city they have the music clubs (Rock Candy, Crocodile Cafe, Fenix underground, etc). In the late 80’s and early 90’s I saw Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Mother Love Bone, etc play those clubs. I think the cops shut down RockCandy so I don’t think it’s operating anymore.

San Juan Islands are also super cool. Some of the smaller ones were hideouts for the Rum Runners coming down from Canada during prohibition. Maybe some of that yummy rum made its way to the Chicago speak easy’s?!?