Bernard King calls today's NBA "the worst it's ever been"

[Seinfeld]

Now, before anyone says "who the 17 cares what Bernard King thinks?", I agree with that sentiment... but I think he brings up a valid debate. The NBA has altered many rules and officiating techniques during the last 15 years in order to promote scoring. That's what fans pay to see, right? The thing is, though, it has essentially destroyed the bitter rivalries that used to exist when guys went up against hard nosed teams like the Pistons and Knicks of the late 80s/early 90s.

As a fan, do you like old school NBA or today's game better?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I like it better now. Everyone likes to point to those good ol days but what they don't like to bring up is that late 90s to I guess maybe mid 2000s where it became almost unwatchable because defense had the upper hand. It was boring as hell.

ETA:
Scoring is back up from the dip in the early 2000s but take a look at scoring in the 80s. Insane numbers. Well above what it is today.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

 

[Dawg1976]

Old school. Its unwatchable now.

 

[dawgman42]

It is the worst it's ever been. Fundamentals are terrible as egos are at an all-time high.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

Try the WNBA. It's refreshing. They have much better fundamentals and use teamwork.

Oh, and **

 

[aTotal360]

100% agreed. I hate the crowd that cries "the mid range jumper is a lost art". Really? Does watching pass, pass, pass, 12-foot jumper get you excited? Did people watch Jordan, Bird or Magic because of there mid range J? 17 no. I agree fundamentals are getting worse, but that doesn't make the NBA less exciting to watch.

IMO, it's all about personalities. And other than the Slim Reaper, there isn't a guy that everyone can love.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

It was much better watching the finals on tape delay in the 80s!! That's how popular it was, wasn't even broadcast live until '82. Will the game improve once they put the two year college rule in? Yes. Is it still entertaining now? Hell yes.

 

[aTotal360]

Need to bring back 4 corners and get rid of the shot clock too.**

 

[seshomoru]

If people want to ignore two of the best players in history...

pouring in 30+ a night in a race to get their team the overall #1 seed, then go right ahead. If they want to ignore two teams, one young and giving no 17s and the other full of veterans with four rings, who rely on defense and toughness also chasing the #1 overall seed, then go right ahead. And feel free to ignore the fact that with 20 games to go, there are five teams within four games of each other for the top spot in the Western Conference. And feel free to dismiss that the point guard position has evolved into something that showcases a large handful of players who not only toss out dimes but fill the bucket, too. And ignore that fact that places like Memphis and Minnesota are packing their arenas every night. Just go ahead and sit back and remember the glory days. The glory days when one game a week was on TV and you really don't remember them at all because they sucked.

 

[Hanmudog]

I think the athleticism is way better today because the players are faster and stronger but I don't know that they are as skilled as players from 20-25 years ago, especially the centers. There is no Kareem, Olajuwon, Ewing, or Robinson these days.

Today's game is by no means bad but it seems like many players rely more on their athletic ability than their skill set. Dwight Howard is the poster child for that.

 

[Drebin]

It is the worst it's ever been. Fundamentals are terrible as egos are at an all-time high.

I think fundamentals are making a comeback, and I think this is because it is a global game now. Europeans have come over here and are forcing that change. There is and always will be an athletic, one-on-one component to the game. Michael Jordan did more to evolve the game in that way than anyone else. Guys today are so much more athletic than they were in the 80s and 90s, so the game is played more above the rim than it was then.

I think the skill erosion is much more evident in college than in the pros. College basketball has become almost unwatchable. But in the pros, the level of point guard play, the above-the-rim athleticism, and the sheer number of guys that shoot over 40% from three point range suggest that skill is there. The game has evolved but that doesn't mean nobody is fundamentally sound. I agree about the diva/ego thing, but that's always been there. Jordan was a me-first diva. Bird was a narcissistic prick. Magic was an attention *****. But those guys could play, and the LeBrons, Kyrie Irvings, Chris Pauls, Seth Curry, etc. can all play too. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

[Philly Dawg]

People say that fundamentals are getting worse are basically just like anyont talking about how much better things used to be. I'd say that the players today shoot, dribble, and pass better than ever before. You could complain about defending, but as another poster noted, much of that is due to rules changes that favor offense.

 

[seshomoru]

Dude...

The Hakeems and Ewings evolved into the Garnetts, Nowitzkis, and Durants. The seven footers learned how to dribble, shoot, and pass as well as the guards. It's not the NBA's fault that overall human athleticism is taking enormous leaps forward every few years. There are very few "old school" centers because they just can't keep up with other people their size anymore.

 

[johnson86-1]

Fundamentals are terrible

Whaaat???? On the whole, players today are highly skilled and fundamentally sound. Generally, at least the 1, 2, and 3 can all handle the ball now. For many of the 3's that can't, there are a lot of 4's that can. People think shooting has gotten worse, but go back and watch 'glory day' and see how many uncontested shots there were and compare to now. Maybe there are more players that don't consistently hit down open shots, but that's only because that skill has gotten less important as defense has gotten better. People also have a tendency to compare the dynasties like the celtics and lakers that had hall of famers as third bananas and ignore the fact that there were plenty of bottom dwellers that were not full of good players playing good basketball.

There was a time where players falling in love with one-on-one isolation plays, the rules allowing a lot of physicality on defense, and moron GM's who were consistently suckered into paying big money to young players with attitude problems because of 'up-side' combined to make a terrible product. But that time has passed. The game is different now mainly because the players have gotten so much bigger and athletic while the size of the court and height of the goal has stayed the same. But the players are not less skilled nor do they have poor fundamentals.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

pouring in 30+ a night in a race to get their team the overall #1 seed, then go right ahead. If they want to ignore two teams, one young and giving no 17s and the other full of veterans with four rings, who rely on defense and toughness also chasing the #1 overall seed, then go right ahead. And feel free to ignore the fact that with 20 games to go, there are five teams within four games of each other for the top spot in the Western Conference. And feel free to dismiss that the point guard position has evolved into something that showcases a large handful of players who not only toss out dimes but fill the bucket, too. And ignore that fact that places like Memphis and Minnesota are packing their arenas every night. Just go ahead and sit back and remember the glory days. The glory days when one game a week was on TV and you really don't remember them at all because they sucked.

Bernard King was a great player, but that doesn't make him the voice of NBA past.

I've been watching the NBA since the 60's and IMO, its never been better.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

Old school. Its unwatchable now.

Old school was literally unwatchable. Unless you were willing to stay up past 10:30 and watch the Finals on tape delay.

 

[Hanmudog]

Just go ahead and sit back and remember the glory days. The glory days when one game a week was on TV and you really don't remember them at all because they sucked.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. There were a crap load more guys from the 80's that will be in the Hall of Fame than from the last 10 years. Erving, Magic, Isiah, Dominique, Olajuwon, Ewing, Kareem, Worthy, McHale, Barkley, Malone (Moses and Karl), Parish, English, Dantly, Dumars, Jordan, Stockton, etc.

It could also be said that not enough people saw how good those guys in the80's really were because they were not on TV as much as today.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

The Hakeems and Ewings evolved into the Garnetts, Nowitzkis, and Durants. The seven footers learned how to dribble, shoot, and pass as well as the guards. It's not the NBA's fault that overall human athleticism is taking enormous leaps forward every few years. There are very few "old school" centers because they just can't keep up with other people their size anymore.

Excellent point. Because guys like you mentioned have skills that were unfathomable in another era, the center position has evolved into more of a defend, rebound and stay out of the way on offense position. It seems to me that if Hakeem was on a roster today, he would be playing the 4.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

Or, the only games ever on TV were Laker/Celtics or the Bulls

so you had no idea how bad 80% of the players and teams were.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. There were a crap load more guys from the 80's that will be in the Hall of Fame than from the last 10 years. Erving, Magic, Isiah, Dominique, Olajuwon, Ewing, Kareem, Worthy, McHale, Barkley, Malone (Moses and Karl), Parish, English, Dantly, Dumars, Jordan, Stockton, etc.

It could also be said that not enough people saw how good those guys in the80's really were because they were not on TV as much as today.

And today you have guys like Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Durant, Paul, Wade, Garnett, Love, Nash, Hill, Dirk, Allen, Gasol, Parker, Pierce, etc

You could make a strong case for guys like Ginobili, Howard, & Melo. Then you have young guys like Griffin, Lillard, Davis, Westbrook, Irving, Curry, Harden etc who all that look of greatness. And that's not to mention Derrick Rose who when healthy, was on of the top 5 players in the league.

 

[Hanmudog]

so you had no idea how bad 80% of the players and teams were.

No. I had one those gigantic eyesore satellite dishes back then and watched the Bullets, Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, Nuggets, and Bucks on a pretty regular basis on their local channels.

And I am not dismissing today's game at all. It is just a different style game played by different types of athletes and not necessarily better or worse.

 

[jakldawg]

During King's day, you could also expect to see some all out brawls during the games, too. (The infamous)Rudy T/Kermit Washington, Dr. J/Larry Bird, Bird/Laimbeer, Lakers/Rockets, The "bad boy" Pistons/everybody else on earth.

Who isn't nostalgic for that old-fashioned short-shorted pugilism? Wouldn't that be great if they went back to those days? Minute after minute of over-analysis on SportsCenter. Talking heads debating "what it all means for society." Hand-wringing about what the ramifications are for our impressionable youth.

Of course, if I paid attention to the Knicks like Bernard King does (I'm assuming), then I might be of the same opinion regarding quality of the game.
Often, when people lament how bad a certain game has become overall (see also college football and basketball) what they really mean is "I wish big-name team X was better."

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

I meant you in the general sense, but when have the Bucks ever been good?

I remember when they had four white starters in the 90s. Dwayne Schintzus maybe?

 

[Hanmudog]

Showing my age here but the Bucks were good when they had Alvin Robertson, Sidney Moncrief, Terry Cummings, and Jack Sikma. They had some good battles with the Celtics and Sixers in the 80's but ultimately always came up short.

 

[dawgstudent]

Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton and Oscar Robertson too.

 

[esplanade91]

I do think the 80's and 90's were the hayday of the NBA, but that's because there were soooooo many HoF caliber players playing all at once. In my opinion THAT'S where the lack of physicality comes from. The NBA's best players aren't crushing each other each night on national TV because there aren't as many.

Just like everything else, everything goes in cycles. I miss the guard play. There just aren't that many elite PG's like there used to be. Now we have elite forwards. The forwards who were beating each other up around the net are now shooting long range jumpers and getting 6 assists a game. In a few years we'll get another ankle-breaker and it will move that way again.

Not bad. Just different. I enjoy today's NBA for different reasons than when I was a kid.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

Except no one was watching Oscar Robertson on satellite**

nm

 

[Dawg1976]

I'll take the Larry Bird days any day over what we have now. I never had to watch any tape delays.

 

[DawgsOnTheWing]

I always felt that Bird and Magic and their rivalry that carried over from the NC2A championship to the NBA were largely responsible for rescuing the NBA in terms of fan popularity. Then MJ took it to another level, and now LJ and Durant are showcasing some of the most amazing individual talent ever. I enjoyed the Lakers/Celtic championships in the Bird/Magic era, so I am old school to some degree........except for the uniforms. No male should be playing ball in those old shorts.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

I'll take the Larry Bird days any day over what we have now. I never had to watch any tape delays.

You must have skipped Larry in the 1981 Finals.

 

[Dawg1976]

In 81 I was out chasing women. But you have to remember, back in those days you didn't have all the channels you have today. Espn was only a couple of years old at that point. Much more coverage on everything now days. Hell....now days you can watch poker a few nights a week.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

In 81 I was out chasing women. But you have to remember, back in those days you didn't have all the channels you have today. Espn was only a couple of years old at that point. Much more coverage on everything now days. Hell....now days you can watch poker a few nights a week.

Which is why the playoffs were on network TV. Only problem was, so few people watched, the NBA was pre-empted by re-runs.

At any rate, even if ESPN had been around, it sounds like you were way to cool to watch.

 

[Dawg1976]

Which is why the playoffs were on network TV. Only problem was, so few people watched, the NBA was pre-empted by re-runs.

At any rate, even if ESPN had been around, it sounds like you were way to cool to watch.

Just did what most men do at that age. If that's cool we were all cool then.

My point is the NBA has gained more coverage due to the increased exposure from all the sports channels and additional marketing that has gone along with it over the last 20 years. If the old style was played today, you would have the same amount of coverage as you do with todays players and style of play. There would be no tape delays of playoff games. We will just have to disagree on who had the better product.

 

[Hanmudog]

I think the NBA has made a nice comeback after the void left by Michael Jordan's retirement. For awhile there were too many teams taking high school players that never really panned out (except Garnett and Kobe) and guys that we're coming out of college too early that we're just not ready for the NBA. Fundamentals and skill levels suffered from all these young inexperienced players and suddenly there was an influx of foreign players (Nowitski,Ginobli,Gasol,etc.) to fill the need for shooters and ball handlers.

Today most of those early entries have gotten experience and developed their games and caught up to the foreign players from a skill standpoint and the NBA is better for it.