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Big 12 Championship Thread
- Thread starter CowboyMedic
- Start date
Yeah, I thought he would finish this year and open it up for Plott. The announcers said that he is coming back. Plott might think about 197.
The simplest thing that has made me happy this year is our improvement in getting out from under, last year was so hard for me to watch from that perspective. We need improvement on offense but we’re getting better on the mat.
Keck looks like he is a max 184. Maybe he will go up to 97. Don’t think that’s the right move for plott.
Iowa state is definitely the best team in the conference. Sad to say, this team is better in duals.
What a win from Bastida. Can hate them and respect the effort some of their guys gave. Sheesh. Hendrickson is a monster.
I will say this, Iowa State took that championship. Exclamation mark at heavyweight.
So you’re going to tell Perry Caldwell Coleman and coach Smith the same thing you’re saying on the board? Pretty sure you’re the biggest keyboard warrior here . Relax this team will be at there best in 1 to 2 years if they aren’t your right time for a change.
Yes, very easily. I'd love to ask them directly why we continuously underperform in tournaments. I wouldn't be disrespectful, just point blank. Nothing they don't know already. This level of performance is not acceptable for OSU wrestling.
I damn sure wouldn't call any of them a ***** though!!
Keck is just too quick for Plott
ISU will likely win it again next year.They have some young guys who produce.
ISU will likely win it again next year.They have some young guys who produce.
Correct on both statements.
Two things have to change for us to keep up with ISU. Our younger wrestlers have to realize that they can't score a TD and be satisfied. They must work on getting a second or third TD before going into a defensive shell. Also, ISU out physicaled everybody in Tulsa. We must meet and exceed the physicality and bulling tactics if we want to beat them.
Does Plott still have eligibility left? I feel like I keep seeing that he does and that he doesn't anyone know for sure?
I’m not sure we underperformed, I just think ISU over performed and had some big unexpected bonus pt wins in the consi that helped widen the gap a lot. We had 4 freshman and 1 sophomore. They all placed in the top 4. We have a stud coming into the lineup next year and a stud in Plott returning. There are a couple of holes but with some good transfers this team will be even better next year. We are miles ahead of where we were this time last year.
Probably why Brooks bumped up. Keck would run through him this year.
The 1-2 year excuse is really old at this point its been used for the last 8 years . I do think Coleman has made a huge difference and let’s pray to god we get a 165 transfer and CC is our 197 and we do something totally different than Konnor at heavy or it will be a rinse and repeat again of this year
The improvements made and how we wrestled this year was a very good sign that positive and noticeable changes were made to the program this offseason.
Out approach to transfers also showed up and should help moving forward. The focus and money coming into the RTC is also a huge step in the right correction.
Stepping back from the last few weeks it’s very easy to see changes and improvements made in many aspects of the program that all proved to be not only positive but paid off almost immediately. The future looks as good as it has in awhile for OSU wrestling.
Out approach to transfers also showed up and should help moving forward. The focus and money coming into the RTC is also a huge step in the right correction.
Stepping back from the last few weeks it’s very easy to see changes and improvements made in many aspects of the program that all proved to be not only positive but paid off almost immediately. The future looks as good as it has in awhile for OSU wrestling.
Seeding doesn't always pan out:
125- #1 ended up 6th; #3 ended up 7th; #4 ended up 5th (#5 beat #1 and #2)
141- #2 ended up 4th; #4 ended up 6th
149- #1 ended up 3rd; #2 ended up 5th; #4 ended up 2nd
157- #1 ended up 7th#4 end up 2nd; #2 ended up 1st; #3 ended up 4th
165 -#4 ended up 3rd; #3 got 4th
174- #2 ended up 4th; #7 got 2nd
184- #3 ended up 4th; #6 got 3rd
197- #2 ended up 7th; #3 ended up 2nd; #7 got 6th
125- #1 ended up 6th; #3 ended up 7th; #4 ended up 5th (#5 beat #1 and #2)
141- #2 ended up 4th; #4 ended up 6th
149- #1 ended up 3rd; #2 ended up 5th; #4 ended up 2nd
157- #1 ended up 7th#4 end up 2nd; #2 ended up 1st; #3 ended up 4th
165 -#4 ended up 3rd; #3 got 4th
174- #2 ended up 4th; #7 got 2nd
184- #3 ended up 4th; #6 got 3rd
197- #2 ended up 7th; #3 ended up 2nd; #7 got 6th
Overall, even though we had some pretty high seeds to begin with, we outperformed them by 1 spot. ISU cumulatively wrestled equal to their seeds. Trackwrestling has this in their statistics list.
We cumulatively over performed our seasons results (which is the general basis of seeds) at the Big 12 tournament.
Gaitan from ISU had 2 pins & a TF in the consolations. That's 5.5 extra points. They were finishing matches and deserved the title.
Just as an outside observer, I wasn’t there this weekend and I don’t have ESPN2, most weights finished where I thought they would. Some did better and a couple did maybe a little worse. I can’t remember who said it, but to some degree it is true, we’re a good dual team but not as good tournament team. Although, almost beating ISU this year is pretty dang good. I’m really proud of Olejnik, Williams, spratley and JT. Plot did great. Fix does what Fix does. It’s not accepting mediocrity to celebrate our wins, but accepting what is reality. We are a young team, new philosophies, in transition. Nati’s don’t happen overnight. We should break the top ten this year, and hopefully top 5. This year’s team is different than the last three years. Let’s look forward to nationals and hope Williams will be good 2 go. Go Pokes
I saw that we had more points than our 2020 title which I believe was our most in the Big 12 tournament. ISU wrestled a almost perfect weekend. We'll see what happens at nationals.
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Ok boys, here's a couple of things: I read OSU scored more points than any other previous 2nd place team ever. I also believe we outplaced ISU at 6 out of 10 weights? The Cowboys actually wrestled their asses off, it just wasnt enough unfortunately. The difference was bonus points. All of ISU's finalists bonused their way to the finals. Swiderski bonused everyone not named Jordan Williams. I am the first to call it like I see it and Don't GAD what anyone thinks but I'm having a hard time overall being mad at this team. Some of these weights were tough as hell. Most if not all were tougher than last year and we did way better. They should ready for KC.
I think Iowa State wrestled a great tournament, with tons of bonus point wins, however even with as lights out as they did wrestle, if guys wrestled to seed or took advantage of simply the matches that fell in our favor then we should have had 154 points to ISU 152. The key match would have been JW making it to the finals but even with that win by JW, ISU still scored the same amount of points in that weight class as we did. Things change if Carr or Chittum had won but neither of them was a favorite in their final matches.
So on one hand ISU did wrestle a good tournament but at the same time, we had more than enough opportunities to win and came up short.
So on one hand ISU did wrestle a good tournament but at the same time, we had more than enough opportunities to win and came up short.
Maybe Plott is finding his groove. I’ve seen wrestlers figure out things and make huge leaps. Cutting weight was definitely not for him.
I agree that we had a good weekend overall and IsU just had a better one, but for me the disappointment lies in a couple of the losses and how we lost. Spratley should’ve won. Jamison shouldn’t have lost when he did. Surber getting stuck….Doucet against Heinselman. Some of those key matches that I feel we weren’t aggressive enough is more frustrating to me than if we wrestled to seed or not.
Overall still feel good about the improvement and trend we saw this year.
Overall still feel good about the improvement and trend we saw this year.
If you look at where we were seeded and where we finished then we were a +1 wrestling above seeds.
125) #2 placed #2 -wrestled above personal expectations but to seed.
133) #1 placed #1 -wrestled to expectations.
141) #2 placed #4 -wrestled below expectations and seed.
149) #4 placed #2 -wrestled above seed and expectations, if healthy I believe Williams would of won.
157) #3 placed #4 -wrestled below seed but to expectations. Travis is a 149 lber wrestling up a class and has held his own all season battling a injury. I thought he actually had a good tournament.
165) #4 placed #3 -wrestled above seed but to expectations. He wrestled O'Toole well and handled Hall.
175) #3 placed #3 -wrestled to see but above expectations. Thompson wrestled poorly on Saturday, but looked much better on Sunday. I hope the way he looked in that 3rd place match can carry over to nationals. He might end up surprising a lot of us if he can.
184) #2 placed #2 - wrestled great and to expectations. Keck is just a freaking beast.
197) #7 placed #6 -wrestled above seed but far below expectations. Surber wrestled poorly all tournament. I think Surber has looked off all season, likely due to just inconsistencies with injuries etc, but I don't know if we are ever going to see a much better version of him.
285) #5 placed #5 -wrestled to see and maybe placed 1 spot below expectations. I thought he would beat heindselman and end up placing 4th.
Overall I thought we had a good tournament despite only having 1 champ. Our weights i felt we underperformed at were 141 and 197 with Jaminson and Surber. Thompson should of won against Sax and made the finals. Besides that everything went about as expected.
125) #2 placed #2 -wrestled above personal expectations but to seed.
133) #1 placed #1 -wrestled to expectations.
141) #2 placed #4 -wrestled below expectations and seed.
149) #4 placed #2 -wrestled above seed and expectations, if healthy I believe Williams would of won.
157) #3 placed #4 -wrestled below seed but to expectations. Travis is a 149 lber wrestling up a class and has held his own all season battling a injury. I thought he actually had a good tournament.
165) #4 placed #3 -wrestled above seed but to expectations. He wrestled O'Toole well and handled Hall.
175) #3 placed #3 -wrestled to see but above expectations. Thompson wrestled poorly on Saturday, but looked much better on Sunday. I hope the way he looked in that 3rd place match can carry over to nationals. He might end up surprising a lot of us if he can.
184) #2 placed #2 - wrestled great and to expectations. Keck is just a freaking beast.
197) #7 placed #6 -wrestled above seed but far below expectations. Surber wrestled poorly all tournament. I think Surber has looked off all season, likely due to just inconsistencies with injuries etc, but I don't know if we are ever going to see a much better version of him.
285) #5 placed #5 -wrestled to see and maybe placed 1 spot below expectations. I thought he would beat heindselman and end up placing 4th.
Overall I thought we had a good tournament despite only having 1 champ. Our weights i felt we underperformed at were 141 and 197 with Jaminson and Surber. Thompson should of won against Sax and made the finals. Besides that everything went about as expected.
Here's my take: Overall the team wrestled well. Out of 10 wrestlers, we had 3 wrestlers finish above seed, 2 finish below seed and 5 finish at seed. I thought if anything our overall seeds were a bit high to begin with. This team was ranked very low to begin the season, with more youth on the team than I can ever remember. Does anyone else remember 4 freshman starters on an OSU team in the past? Help me out if anyone can find that out. This team is wrestling more aggressively and is in better condition than any OSU teams I've seen in a long time. You have to consider the youth of this team when evaluating it. Overall This year is a major step in the right direction to getting back on track - and OSU has been off the track for many years now, not just the last two.
125- Spratley wrestled very well in the finals, high energy, he was the agressor. I think when a guy shoots in and clearly has control both legs and sits the guy on his butt, it should be a takedown period, I don't care if he's locked through the crotch. Everyone saw the head butt to the mouth - should have stopped the match there for a second, but regardless, Sprately made a freshman mistake and stopped wrestling and payed for it. He'll learn from that.
133- Fix - wrestled well. In my opinion he is wrestling better this year than the last couple years - better offence from his feet mainly.
141-Jamison- It was tough for this freshman. He could have won both losses, so close. He'll keep getting better.
149- Williams was outperformer of the team. Beat the #5 guy in the nation according to Intermat. Wrestled better than he has all year. REALLY HOPE his injury isn't bad.
157- Travis - He did OK. Should have won one he lost. He needs to get bigger in the off season. Too small.
165- Izzak beat the kid who beat him earlier this season. Wrestled O'Toole tough. Good tourney.
174- Thompson could have easily been in the finals, wrestled his best all year so far.
184-Plott looked like a stud until he got to the finals - his opponent is a beast, he's also just bigger and stronger than Plott. But I hope Plott will adjust his stance and defense - way too high.
197-Surber had a tough bracket and tough year overall with injuries.
Hwt - Doucet - as expected. We'll see at Nationals.
125- Spratley wrestled very well in the finals, high energy, he was the agressor. I think when a guy shoots in and clearly has control both legs and sits the guy on his butt, it should be a takedown period, I don't care if he's locked through the crotch. Everyone saw the head butt to the mouth - should have stopped the match there for a second, but regardless, Sprately made a freshman mistake and stopped wrestling and payed for it. He'll learn from that.
133- Fix - wrestled well. In my opinion he is wrestling better this year than the last couple years - better offence from his feet mainly.
141-Jamison- It was tough for this freshman. He could have won both losses, so close. He'll keep getting better.
149- Williams was outperformer of the team. Beat the #5 guy in the nation according to Intermat. Wrestled better than he has all year. REALLY HOPE his injury isn't bad.
157- Travis - He did OK. Should have won one he lost. He needs to get bigger in the off season. Too small.
165- Izzak beat the kid who beat him earlier this season. Wrestled O'Toole tough. Good tourney.
174- Thompson could have easily been in the finals, wrestled his best all year so far.
184-Plott looked like a stud until he got to the finals - his opponent is a beast, he's also just bigger and stronger than Plott. But I hope Plott will adjust his stance and defense - way too high.
197-Surber had a tough bracket and tough year overall with injuries.
Hwt - Doucet - as expected. We'll see at Nationals.
Its easy to talk about seeds but some of these weights are crap shoots. Spratley loses by 1 in the finals but beat the 3rd and 4th place finishers to get there. the 1,3,4 seeds at 125 end up like 5-7th place. 141 is basically a crap shoot. IMO anyone of those top 5 guys can win on any given day. Echemendia did get a big advantage getting the 1 seed instead of TJ.
Again overall the difference was bonus points. Next year our young guys are much more likely to put up bigger points w/ a year under their belt. We lose Daton but ISU loses 2 big point scorers in Carr and Bastida.
Someone earlier asked what has changed since last year besides the wrestlers? I'm not sure what answer your'e looking for? The attitude and the energy and team dynamics all seem vastly improved. Our overall attack rate is much higher. Plott didn't just go up a weight he became a hammer on top against everyone not named Parker. Daton is showing more diversified attacks. Doucet at least has won a lot more but I agree the coaches still aren't getting him to shoot which isn't easy and why I hope they never go after anymore recruits who aren't offensive minded. Apparently getting defensive guys to open up consistently is damn near impossible. I wont say anymore names in regards to that lol.
Next year our overall success will be based on the portal and Hughes getting down and holding 33. He doesnt want to even though thats what he was recruited for. Do we have other guys for the spot? Yes, but Hughes will be an AA.
I also think its important to note that the Big 12 as a whole was a very strong wrestling conference this year. There are a lot of good teams. This was probably one of if not the toughest Big 12 tournament in recent history. Also, yes Jamison didnt quite meet expectations, but the ones he lost were because of simple late match mistakes, especially in the 3rd place match. 141 looks to be a very tough weight this year.
I thought Izzys match for 3rd against Hall was fantastic. Even though the score doesnt show it he had a ton of attacks and controlled and dominated a really good wrestler.
I think Thompsons 3rd place match was absolutely his best match all year. Probably got his grub on after weigh in or maybe he saw one of my earlier posts and got pissed off which is fine w/ me lol. His other matches (went 2-1) he was the usual BT, a crap shoot whether its a seeded or unseeded guy. He had such a great opportunity to make the finals.
Plott has consistently (last year as well) had questionable leg defense, as far as letting guys get to a leg anyway. Keck is fast and has really long arms and great technique which spells disaster for Dustin. He's got to get a strategy for Parker or he's not gonna see the top of the podium.
We need Plott to stay 2/3 seed and hope whoever gets the 4 can take down Keck in the semis. Salazar from Minnesota looks real big but not sure he is fast enough for Keck
Absolutely. The top 4 teams have all been ranked in the top 10 at some point. 141 could be the deepest/toughest weight in the country imo. I'm hoping the B12 shows out this year in KC. I'm tired of lopsided coverage and being considered the lil brother to the b10. Thats why whether its a dual or tournament I'll always root for B12 guys unless its against us.
Plott will definitely get the 2 or 3. Salazaar will be there with him I'd say. Him or Munoz.
Actually the difference was Spratley losing to a guy he shouldn't have (4 points), Fix giving up a late TD vs getting a late TD in the finals (.5), TJ by simply making the finals (3.5), BT taking advantage of a winnable match to make the championship (2.5pts) , Luke not being pinned (.5) andTeague beating Swenson in the quarterfinals (1.5). KD losing to Heisleman again likely cost us a few points as well. Nothing I mentioned above is crazy like "If only Plott would have pinned Keckeisen." There are plenty of toss-ups and things could go either way at times but the above scenarios are not pie-in-the-sky things, they are real-world situations where unfortunately most of the guys failed to rise to meet the challenge. That's what's disappointing, to be the team I want us to be and I'm sure everyone else on here does those toss-up matches are what separates folks from being good or great. So I don't buy the narrative the ISU just went out and won it and nothing we could have done to win it; nope with all their bonus points and how good they wrestled, it's still the little things that we failed to do that cost us a championship.
Now there are other situations where guys showed up much better than anticipated JW and IO come to mind. JW winning probably was a 10-point Team Score win. Guys like Plott wrestled to expectations and that's saying a lot because so much was expected of him. He might wrestle Keckeisen 10 times and never beat him. That's not a knock on Plott but just how dang good Keckeisen is right now. All it takes is one time though and I'm praying that's the finals in KC.
I'm not down on this season right now as ultimately it will be the NCAA's that matter in how I feel about our season but if the same things that we failed to do at the Big 12 happen in KC then I see another 8+ finish at nationals. I wouldn't consider that a major improvement now if we end up Top 5 then I'd feel like something has changed other than just new personnel. Time will tell and I hope we do.
These are just my opinions, everyone else is welcome to theirs. I'm happy to debate mine and if someone makes a good enough argument to change mine I'm happy to do so. For the most part we are all pulling for OSU wrestling to get back to the level we expect. Right now it's still not there and this weekend didn't change my opinion.
I still blame all of this on the Ferrari's, dislike that family with the passion of 1000 burning suns.
Now there are other situations where guys showed up much better than anticipated JW and IO come to mind. JW winning probably was a 10-point Team Score win. Guys like Plott wrestled to expectations and that's saying a lot because so much was expected of him. He might wrestle Keckeisen 10 times and never beat him. That's not a knock on Plott but just how dang good Keckeisen is right now. All it takes is one time though and I'm praying that's the finals in KC.
I'm not down on this season right now as ultimately it will be the NCAA's that matter in how I feel about our season but if the same things that we failed to do at the Big 12 happen in KC then I see another 8+ finish at nationals. I wouldn't consider that a major improvement now if we end up Top 5 then I'd feel like something has changed other than just new personnel. Time will tell and I hope we do.
These are just my opinions, everyone else is welcome to theirs. I'm happy to debate mine and if someone makes a good enough argument to change mine I'm happy to do so. For the most part we are all pulling for OSU wrestling to get back to the level we expect. Right now it's still not there and this weekend didn't change my opinion.
I still blame all of this on the Ferrari's, dislike that family with the passion of 1000 burning suns.