Big 12 expansion? Apparently BYU folks...
- Thread starter CE4WVU
- Start date
Looks like the writer needed something to write about. All those rumors swirling around the Big 12...
I posted it seeing we're playing them in late September. But yesterday, I started to wonder why this particular local TV station (NBC affiliate) has been so adamant about BYU and the Big 12 expansion rumors in thinking something will happen... especially this alleged vote this summer and inviting them into the Big 12 as the western most member.
As it turns out, the Mormon church owns KSL and many of it's news anchors/journalists are associated with/have degrees from BYU. So there ya go... it explains why there is this pro BYU tilt with them moreso than with the Utah Utes, with whom they loathe to an extent. Almost reminds me of WSAZ or WCHS tilting more with Marshall at times.
As it turns out, the Mormon church owns KSL and many of it's news anchors/journalists are associated with/have degrees from BYU. So there ya go... it explains why there is this pro BYU tilt with them moreso than with the Utah Utes, with whom they loathe to an extent. Almost reminds me of WSAZ or WCHS tilting more with Marshall at times.
If expansion does occur, BYU is one of the most attractive candidates available. Now adding a more eastern candidate is the bigger question and gamble. IMO UConn is a better choice than UC and brings in a better market.
I am intrigued by all this excitement most of the BYU fans and alumni are starting to ramp up with since I live in CougUteAggie territory out here. Unless I am way off, most of us have not heard anything within the Big 12 of a vote this summer. Head scratcher if you ask me...
Yea...I agree. The "if" in the room is a big "if". I'd say the story makes for good press in your area and the author can get good readership by writing it. I also have not heard confirmation of such a vote this summer but would still favor byu above any other available in the west.
BYU adds nothing but more travel and needing special accommodation. This conference already has those things with us and Texas, respectively. UConn is much in the same as BC - northeast market, but nobody cares about them unless they're REALLY good. It'd make women's basketball solid, but otherwise it'd be a wash or worse. I don't see that bringing in enough money to offset the revenue split going from 10 to 11 or 12. Same for Cincinatti.
BYU supposedly adds fans and solid sports, but they left a Mountain West Conference that they were third fiddle to Boise and TCU, put the rest of their sports in a mid-major, and we're supposed to think them a solid addition, given they'll increase the time zones of this conference to three, and have their own network deal? Let us not forget, their players are typically a year older than the class they should be in, which may or may not be a wash, but a legitimate question. Sure they add fans, but we don't need more special treatment, which is why I said "hell no" to us having any arrangement with Notre Dame. BYU is in that same category.
It is either push the envelope on the GOR and invite some ACC schools like Clemson, NC State, Virginia, VPI or FSU, or stay at 10. We can't stage a coup and steal LSU and Arkansas from the SEC, so this is what we have in terms of options. Otherwise, we are watering ourselves down, weakening our brand, and doing more harm than good.
Look...I am not advocating expansion for the sake of expansion but 12 seems to be the minimal magical number for P5 athletic conferences. If the B12 decides to expand, IMHO BYU and UConn are the best candidates available. BYU has won a fb national championship and has a good football history and resume to go with it. They do add fans and do it on a national level with an especially big following in the Rocky Mountain area. They have had good basketball teams and have a solid sports program overall. I don't believe that the B12 needs or should make concessions to them. If they want in, then they will have tp agree to the term's that the conference sets including or not including any special accommodations. I don't like the time zone difference and travel but it's no more than 1 fb and 1 bb game a year. They definitely have a better fb pedigree than any other non P5 school out there.
Now Uconn is a much bigger question in my mind but I would still prefer them to UC. It is a state university and doesn't have the commuter school image. Great pedigree in both men's and women bb. There really is no strong fb team in the east; so with a B12 label, Uconn might be able to be an attractive program in time and most likely better than BC's overall sports program.
I like staying at 10 but don't believe that it will happen. So if the B12 decides to expand, adding teams from non-P5 conferences seems probable. Expansion by pushing the envelope on the GOR and attracting teams from other P5 conferences is a long shot and not a viable strategy IMO. Keep in mind that this and any discussion on this topic is pure speculation, conjecture and opinion. And we all know what opinions are like and that everyone has and is entitled to have one.
It's not. The only reason 12 was ever a "magic number" was because you need 12 to start a CCG. If the Big 12 had a bigger media footprint, then they would be completely fine with 10 teams. It's just that with only 10 teams, and 8 of them in overlapping markets, it can be a hindrance regarding media contracts.
It is. Until February 2016 there was no option to hold a CCG without 12 the magical number. And I agree with everything you said regarding the media footprint which supports 12 for whatever reason. Do you really think the B12 will hold a CCG with only 10 teams and no divisions? I don't.
There is a good chance, based on what Bowlsby said. He mentioned that the data from the study so far indicates that the odds of making the playoffs are significantly better with a CCG, even with a loss. If that data holds up, I think the odds of having a CCG are very good, even with only 10 teams.
I would like to see Army and Navy added to the Big. This line up would be perfect for Mountaineer fans. No................we are not bigger than the academies!
BYU's National Championship was a late win at the Holiday Bowl against a 6-5 Michigan team whose QB was playing on one leg due to a blown out knee. Michigan barely made it to bowl eligibility that year. The BYU Championship was a national joke for months and a huge embarrassment to college football.
Let 'em stay independent and pound sand.
Let 'em stay independent and pound sand.
I think they will have a CCG with 10 teams. Why? 1. They petitioned for a vote to hold said game and were approved. 2. More money without expansion. 3. 13th data point. 4. More potential content for a BIG12 network if Texas ever lets go of the LHN. 5. Does not preclude expansion down the road and the financial impact could contribute to future contract negotiations.
Thats a interesting thought, adding Army and Navy.
Clemson and FSU are the best choice but unlikely to happen.
It is absolutely more than one fb and one bb game per year. It will include all sports and that will still be a hell of a travel problem. We aren't going that far for a USC or UCLA, we are going for a former Mountain West program that wasn't even the best in that conference.
Just because they're considered the best available does not mean that we have to take them.
Also, UConn adds only a solid women's basketball squad. It remains to be seen if their men's team can win without cheating their asses off. They have more limitations than us when it comes to climate and attractive location. They will not bring a NY or Northeast market. I'd prefer them to Cincinnati but that's like saying I prefer fisting a cow to getting a colonoscopy - neither are pleasant choices.
And I think Cincinnati is a better choice than UCONN and brings in a better market; and since my opinion means every bit as much (and as little) as yours, we offset one another......bringing this particular argument to a end.
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On the money. Do the math. 10 teams gets $30 million each. That's a $300 million annual pie supplied mostly by TV. If you add 2 teams and TV ups the ante to $360 million, the original 10 members NO MORE MONEY. It could have to jump to $480 million just to get to the $40 million per school that the 10 members are projected to get down the road. It just doesn't add up. Current members would have to take a pay cut to add teams, even with a conference title game. Why do it? Oklahoma proved that you can make the national playoffs without a national title game. That argument goes by the boards, too.
On the money. Do the math. 10 teams gets $30 million each. That's a $300 million annual pie supplied mostly by TV. If you add 2 teams and TV ups the ante to $360 million, the original 10 members NO MORE MONEY. It could have to jump to $480 million just to get to the $40 million per school that the 10 members are projected to get down the road. It just doesn't add up. Current members would have to take a pay cut to add teams, even with a conference title game. Why do it? Oklahoma proved that you can make the national playoffs without a national title game. That argument goes by the boards, too.
I'll preface by saying I thoroughly enjoy the 10 team round robin format, and believe in the iron sharpens iron philosophy (I think 3x owns this one but I'll borrow it lol)...
However...I think WVU itself would benefit greatly from at least one other eastern partner...MY first choice would be the Turkeys but don't see prying them out of the ACC as a viable option. So....if it came down to it I would be firmly in favour of a newly renovated Nippert, with the option of Paul Brown for big games, a sizeable tv market and the Ohio/ KY recruiting ground vs a 1/2-3/4 full Rentchler Field of Giants/Jets/Pats fans. How many tv eyeballs are locked in to BC or UCONN games anyway? Surely it can't be many?....I always enjoyed both the football and basketball contests between Cincy and WVU in the old BE...I'm still not sure Cincy is the answer but they'd certainly be better than dozens of other non P-5 suggestions I've seen...
You are in a dream world CoalCountry. I respect your view but totally disagree with them.
Beware of any business dealings with LDS. I've had my fair share and there is always an X factor involved.
Oh trust me, I have a bunch of them as my neighbors. They are everywhere out here... lol!
That one baffles me, since we haven't had a rivalry game with Pitt for nearly five years now. Not to mention UConn would be a formidable basketball school for the ACC and potentially strengthen the football program. Had Pitt gotten into the Big 12, you could say two of the more well known rivalries would be in the Big 12's possession with the Red River Shootout (Texas and Oklahoma) and Backyard Brawl (WVU and Pitt). Get Cinci we could be back at 12 and have a couple of nice travel partners... it's nice to think about versus our current reality.
But that's not even happening, so we can only reminisce of past games against the Pittycats.
I'll second that. When I lived in Arizona you had to keep a close eye on them in any sort of transaction. If you're not a Saint you're fair game to them. The courts in the mountain west are stacked with them, good luck getting any compensation there.
UConn isn't that great of a get. They don't have a good TV market, and their football program doesn't have any more potential than anyone else (i.e. Pitt). I guess you could make the argument that UConn tangentially has the New York market, but you could say the same thing about Syracuse. Basketball isn't this issue. It's football and TV markets. UConn isn't really that great for either one.
There's only one sport that counts for P-5, and basketball isn't it unless you're named Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas.
Nobody said otherwise, Mike, but to claim UConn is Wake without the academics is clearly preposterous.
The funny thing is that the ACC is the one P5 conference where interest for basketball rivals interest for football. In that respect, you'd think UConn would've been a bigger candidate despite Boston College's objections. After all, even in football UConn had more BCS appearances than BC and exactly as many as Pitt or Wake.
The funny thing is that the ACC is the one P5 conference where interest for basketball rivals interest for football. In that respect, you'd think UConn would've been a bigger candidate despite Boston College's objections. After all, even in football UConn had more BCS appearances than BC and exactly as many as Pitt or Wake.
Never underestimate the filth of BC in these matters. This is the school that held all of the dirty laundry when the ACC raided the Big East, not once but twice. On the same day they said they were staunch BE supporters, the other press conference announcing they were leaving actually took place in an overlap of broadcasting. They then were inexplicably at critical Big East meetings after their announcement in which they turned over sensitive documents. Granted Syracuse did the same thing as did Miami on its way out the door.
BC for all of its clutching the cross and spouting pious words is a trashy thug of an organization and is as dirty as they come. (personal opinion obviously) UConn has no chance of getting in, BC surely has a lot of dirt on the right schools in the ACC to make sure that UConn never gets in. If UConn was going to get in, they would have beat Pitt or Louisville in.
But see, you're trying to force a square peg in a round hole with that thinking. The only reason the ACC expanded was the same reason all the other conferences expanded: money. It's irrelevant that some of the schools are more interested in basketball. The thing they are interested in most is money, so that's what will determine their choices on expansion. Football and TV markets are what bring in more money, not basketball. That's why UConn is out and the other schools are in.
Sounds like you have a point or two to make, perhaps you would care to share your opinions.
Go back and read history. It was not about money that the ACC raided the Big East; it was about survival. The Big East was eclipsing the ACC in all sports and Miami had just won the national championship (2001). The ACC was dying and had to do something. Fortunately for them, they had an all-sports conference that actually worked equally for all sports and members. I realize that is not exactly true, as basketball has and always will be king so long as there is an ACC, but I digress. The Big East was saddled with horrible and some would say evil leadership that had an agenda counter to the schools supporting all sports.
The Big East football schools nearly broke away from the basketball schools and there were talks of inviting the like-minded schools from the ACC to form a new conference. That effort died when the name Big East fought over. No one wants to take the risk that the BCS would follow the new conference since it was tied to the name.
While more money was made by the ACC over the raid it was not money that started the process - it was all about survival for the ACC.
Agree
Another example for WVU fans, would be why the B1G invited Rutgers to join the Conference.
It certainly was not for their Football or Basketball prowess.
It was geography, the population of New Jersey is 8.9 million and the close proximity to New York City.
With the Pitt invite, the ACC Conference expanded into Pennsylvania with a population of 12.7 million and specifically the Greater Pittsburgh TV market is ranked 23 in the United States.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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