Bobby Petrino-Coaches and Parents Beware

[wcu1988]

I realize in this day and age verbal commitments mean nothing until signing but the coaches are suppose to be the adults in this deal. This kid committed 8 months ago and cut off other recruiters only to be told the week of signing day that he did not have a scholarship leaving his options very limited. Petrino did not even have the guts to tell the kid himself and sent one of his assistants. Petrino's history does not speak highly of his integrity for example cheating on his wife with a member of his office staff at Arkansas and a history of lying. I would like to see more coaches around the country follow this SC coach and ban Petrino and his staff from recruiting their kids, He clearly does not have the kids best interest. Also if I was a parent of a highly recruited athlete I would not let this guy or his staff get near my kid

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/02/high-school-coach-bans-bobby-petrino-from-recruiting-his-players

 

[burnsbulldogtweeter]

This is why Louisville had absolutely no business bringing him back!

 

[bamatide13]

Sorry it is a business decision. If the kid was the best RB on the board it is not a problem. He clearly wasn't and Louisville had other options that were better.

He will end up with a scholarship somewhere and will do fine. I disagree with your perception, the coaches or school's owe these kids nothing. I have no problem with schools dropping kids who under perform or have academic issues either. That is how the real world works, if you do not perform you lose your job or get replaced by someone who can do your job better.

Trying to figure out why this should work any different. Sink or swim. JMO.

 

[Steelers71]

Wrong. This is why kids commit early so they can stop the recruiting process. And most schools will honor a scholarship offer if a kid gets hurt during his senior year and they have verbally committed. Petting has no class and this just solidifies his reputation. How would you feel if it was your son who verbally committed and told all the other schools that's where he was going? Then the other schools move on to the next recruit. That's how it goes.

 

[RalphMachio99]

They're not victims. They can stop the recruiting process any minute they want to....commit to Gardner Webb, or just go be a student.
I don't LIKE what happened to the DF kid, but like the Bamafan said- it is a business. The following comments have nothing to do with this kid in particular, but are more across the spectrum as I see the recruiting landscape between HS and College football.

First, we have all this ridiculous talk of paying kids who are already getting 50k-100k plus in scholarship education, food, medical, clothes, etc,etc, etc is the part of business that nobody talks about. That is a business decision by the university.

Everything is a money grab from the "student athlete" perspective, but universities have to serve their own self interest first or else they won't be there long to offer scholarships. All the bowl money, TV money, etc that the players want a piece of has nothing to do with whether they play or not. They are all replaceable (every 3-4 years) players as they cycle through. So, they get "paid" big money if they're deemed good enough to get a university to accept their agreement to show up play, and continue to maintain a high conistency of living and play in order to stay on the team.

The kids have made recruiting as ridiculous as the recruiters. All these press conferences that are meaningless really seem stupid 2 years later when half the guys are washing cars somewhere or proved to be way overhyped.

The kid sounds like a great player/high character kid. If he's good enough, he'll go someplace and do well - I agree.

Re: Petrino. He isn't much different than the most beloved coaches around...whether anyone wants to believe it or not. Coaching is a nomadic profession by 95% of them. They go to and from very often. He's made personal decisions whether or not to stay or go. He nailed a secretary or whatever. I'm a whole lot more worried about the squeaky clean types who act holier than thou and do their dirty deeds more discreetly, because THOSE types have created two of the worst collegiate athletic program incidents in it's history in PSU and UNC.

 

[btango]

Colburn signed with Wake Forest this morning.

 

[btango]

We can call it a business which I agree with but pulling the offer less than 48 hours before signing day when they knew the issues they would face for over a month. Bring him to campus for an official within a few weeks. That is BS. Anyone who says different is insane. If he were coming off a severe injury and could not play this fall I would be for it as that would still allow him five years and be the equivalent of an early enrollee.

I think athletes should get a small subsidy each month for incidentals. In addition, I like the ideas being presented for guaranteed scholarships as long as the player continues to move forward with his degree and to returning former players that left early. Personally I would like to see more assistance after they complete their careers with classes that are probably not standard for most universities in resume writing, handling finances, and preparing for life outside the football cocoon.

 

[btango]

Originally posted by RalphMachio99:


The kids have made recruiting as ridiculous as the recruiters. All these press conferences that are meaningless really seem stupid 2 years later when half the guys are washing cars somewhere or proved to be way overhyped.

The kid sounds like a great player/high character kid. If he's good enough, he'll go someplace and do well - I agree.

Two things you said that I agree with.

 

[RalphMachio99]

Originally posted by btango:
We can call it a business which I agree with but pulling the offer less than 48 hours before signing day when they knew the issues they would face for over a month. Bring him to campus for an official within a few weeks. That is BS. Anyone who says different is insane. If he were coming off a severe injury and could not play this fall I would be for it as that would still allow him five years and be the equivalent of an early enrollee.

I think athletes should get a small subsidy each month for incidentals. In addition, I like the ideas being presented for guaranteed scholarships as long as the player continues to move forward with his degree and to returning former players that left early. Personally I would like to see more assistance after they complete their careers with classes that are probably not standard for most universities in resume writing, handling finances, and preparing for life outside the football cocoon.

So, how do you feel about recruits pulling THEIR intent and switching in the last minute, much less 48 hours. It's a two way street. Surely you know that the same kid who gets an offer in July, often comes back to find out that that same offer isn't there in January. Happens every year, at every school, multiple times. The fact that he verbaled makes it look a little worse, but what is the difference b/w that and the recruit "verballing" to the school and switching it multiple times, especially late?

I think the fact that Petrino is involved has a lot to do with this, as he is disliked by many.
Regarding the L'ville departures....a college football team is a fluid situation. Guys get in trouble, don't go to class, get a girl pregnant, etc. So, whatever the team looked like a month ago, may have changed a whole lot in the first 2 weeks of the first semester back to school.

Severe injuries that occur with honored scholarships are BS too. A football scholarship isn't a lottery ticket, although it's recently been treated like one. Now we have people up in arms about wanting real legit cash from the system (SMH). I am glad you like the small stipend idea. Believe it or not- I do too. In Paterno's book he called it 'pizza money'. It makes sense, but I only agree with that due to the hectic schedule and inability to have a job outside of class due to football (or other sport) demands. But there again....football players get a whole lot more perks than a regular student who is paying his own way through....so I'm talking $200 per month for the big 3 sports and a declining scale for the sports that demand less time and produce less money. Yes I am saying that if you are an equestrian, you shouldn't get $200. The university is likely taking a bath on your 'sport' anyway...be glad it's offered and you're getting a fifth of a scholly or whatever it is anyway.

Guarnteeed scholarships....no way. If these players are that valuable to humanity, then they can study and pay for college like so many kids do every year. So what if they blew a knee out? They will be an accountant, Home Depot paint employee or car salesman in 4-5 years either way. College scholarships for sports do not equate to 10 year NFL veteran demands for living subsidies. Guarnteed scholarships would be 50-100k guaranteed money. The university is taking a big enough risk with their own reputation as it is with 18 year olds....now they have to guarantee them that kind of cash?

Agree wholeheatedly with :
Personally I would like to see more assistance after they complete their careers with classes that are probably not standard for most universities in resume writing, handling finances, and preparing for life outside the football cocoon.

That's the thing...that cocoon you talk about is them living better in those 3-5 years than most of the players did growing up. I'd guess 75% of the kids on the team didn't have top of the line medical at a moment's notice, (basically) unlimited food prepared by dieticians to help their helath and growth as much as possible, and housing facilities that are equipped with pool tables, computers, roving Tutors with no wait, etc, etc. D1 college football players at the top 50 programs (at least) have it made.

To hear a recruit didn't go to L'ville and ended up at Wake is like saying he didn't get the date with Mrs. Rhode Island, but landed Mrs. Vermont. He'll be Ok.

 

[btango]

You are so way far off on my thoughts on the verbals it is a complete 180! I hate the verbals and even more when they call a press conference to announce nearly a year out and then change a couple of times. I have always thought that once a student verbals that no other college should be allowed to contact him in any way. That's the reason to verbal right, stop the process. We all know they will find a way and it cannot be regulated. I do think the player should be allowed to continue to look to some degree but once he verbals I do not think he should be allowed anymore official visits. Verbaling should require a guardian and a school coach to sign a form along with the player explaining all of this. In addition the school must be held to some standard for the written offer they have provided. Would make the game much tougher to figure out and there are no easy answers.

When Hakeem Nicks was at the UNC camp summer before senior year Tom Knotts told Bunting if they offered and Nicks accepted he would not shop them. Knotts told Nicks if they offer and you accept this is where you are going, it is your decision. Nicks wanted to go to UNC. Done deal and he never crumbled.

A player gets injured he receives a medical hardship scholarship. If you worked for a company and got hurt on the job you would have options. That is why this available to players. I know many that were unable to play that went this route and not because that is what they wanted.

I have no issue if a player is removed from the team and the 85 scholarship limit for performance reasons after a set time period but room, board, and tuition is not costing schools that much money and if the player continues toward graduation it is not really a loss.

100% in agreement on the sports that are offered to offset football in the Title 9 regulations and would be in agreement looking at any sport that does not produce revenue. Football should be excluded from the Title 9 calculations in my opinion especially if it pays for itself. In some places it, along with mens basketball, is the catalyst for paying for everything.

 

[RalphMachio99]

Yeah- I can live with that. The process you laid out...great. It holds the recruit accountable on an even scale with the university. That's all I want in the process.

But, college football scholarship athletes are there to play football. If they can't get into or stay in the university without the football piece, then I don't think they are deserving of a scholarship. Basically if you come to school on a football scholarship and you don't play football for any reason.....go make your mark on the world as best you can...but you aren't using football /university scholarship money to do so. The deal is if you play, we'll pay. So, if you don't play or they don't want you for any reason, they shouldn't have to pay.

 

[btango]

So Marcus Lattimore and Eric LeGrand should not have a scholarship for tuition, room, books, and meals? I know several players that received injuries that would not allow them to play again and they continued on in school and did well.

A former player that I worked with was a three starter in the SEC and was drafted. Played first year but suffered a neck injury. After extensive rehab came back and suffered a worse neck injury. Three doctors, team/NFL/and his choice all told him if he played the chance of severe injury to include paralysis was great. He received an insurance settlement through the NFL plan. He is still receiving income why would a college player not receive his scholarship? One played for money and one played for an education.

I obviously take it a step further with players that are basically "cut" from the team also. To me the biggest issue is should they really be a college student if they are not college academic material? That is where the issue really lies and is too big of a monster to be corralled.

 

[RalphMachio99]

So Marcus Lattimore and Eric LeGrand should not have a scholarship for tuition, room, books, and meals?

That is correct. Football is a choice. If they don't play football, then no football scholarship.
If they would like a scholarship to attend college....there are academic scholarships available right now. You should not get free college education because you were a good HS football (or anything) player. As long as you're healthy and doing right by the university...if they continue to pay for the education- great. But, if football ceases to continue, then no football scholarship.

Stories like paralysis etc don't sway me. Playing football is a choice. The NFL is a pipedream. Every top 1000 HS football recruit thinks he's good enough for the NFL. 90% of them (or more?) are wrong. I will say it again....playing football is not equivalent to winning the lottery. It's great if a university will pay for you to read for free....but when you no longer play, that money goes away. So, if the player is cut, that means he isn't good enough or has done something to where he is no longer valued as a football player. That scholarship is tied to being a player. If the player wasn't a recipient of another type of scholarship that will allow him/her to stay in school for free....time to pay.

I think our fundamental disagreement is in how we view the players. I view them as students who play football....because that's what 99% of them are/will be (ie no pro potential). So that's what I think they're in school for....to get that education. If football gives them 2 years out of 4 for free...then awesome. I THINK you are viewing them as potential pros at a higher percentage than I may be doing.

 

[btango]

Eric LeGrand was paralyzed on a kickoff. Marcus Lattimore suffered an extremely severe knee injury. You think that their scholarship should have ended that day their careers ended or at the end of the fall semester as they could obviously not play that spring?

 

[btango]

I do not view them as potential pros but at the Power 5 conference as I see a money making machine that churns out huge profits by utilizing the talents of young males between the age of 18-23. If a player can no longer do his part due to injury the continued scholarship is justified.

A player dismissed for academic shortcomings needs additional assistance which is provided to fullest with goal of getting him back on the field. If they are unable to make the academic cut they are released.

My view of the players that do not make the cut is not as strong but I do not see any problem with continued assistance of some kind. The tactics of brutalizing players or making them so miserable they leave was a long running issue. That is what new legislation within the Power 5 is aimed at.

When a college coach does not win the amount of games or show the improvement expected he is fired and is paid out the remainder of his contract which almost always has four seasons remaining. We are now seeing assistants get guaranteed years and rollovers.

 

[RalphMachio99]

"The tactics of brutalizing players or making them so miserable they leave was a long running issue. That is what new legislation within the Power 5 is aimed at."

This is part of the reason why I think coaches/universities ought to freely (without judgement, etc) be able to release schollies after each year. I know they CAN do that, but I'm saying it should be drilled into the system that all know this, and expect to have essentially 1 year contracts...much like you would have if you were on academic scholarship and you had a .9 GPA after your first year in college. I see the two no differently.

Also- I never consider the NCAA/Power 5 as money making machines. They are what they are. They put up the money, pay the money to advertise and make what they have what it is, they assumed all the risk, it's their business. The players are puppets on a string, much like Pro players are. (To them) I say - just shut up and play...and be thankful people will actually pay to watch.
Side note- If they stop selling beer at NFL and NBA stadiums, the "fandom" will go down about 50%, so they'd better not push this envelope of wanting more, more, more too far because the powers that be (owners, league officials) can lessen the players power by not trying to market and expand constantly if the inmates continue trying to overtake and run the asylum. That's where I see Pro sports going...and with all this talk about payment to players in college....it won't be far behind.

 

[raidertime]

The NCAA (and the internet) is responsible for allowing college FB recruiting to become a circus. A kid's commitment means nothing and a school's commitment means nothing. They need to get away from everyone signing in February. It is like Christmas morning and nobody knows if they are going to get presents or coal. Allow LOI's to be signed between September or October of a player's senior season and up until the start of the college school year. If the kid and school are not ready to sign on the dotted line, then it is not a commitment but just a continuation of the recruitment process. Tennessee signed 30 kids this year and 32 kids last year when they can only add 50 kids to the team in two years. Somebody has to get screwed in that process.

 

[RalphMachio99]

I know what you mean with the oversigning, but the NCAA regulated that more closely the last couple years with hard and fast rules against it. Some years teams can just add a whole lot more (7-8 more than the normal number) b/c of early pro entrys, transfers, guys quitting football, etc.

I'm certainly no UT fan, but I do think are probalby in this situation with all the turmoil they've had with revolving door of coaches the last couple years. Those situations usually produce lots of transfers and turover in the roster. I believe NC's D. Scott is one such transfer, which would open up another slot for the coach to give a scholly to a walk on (some coaches do this often, some never do it) or use it for another HS pick in this recruiting class.

 

[raidertime]

Transfers out impact your limit of 85 scholarship players, but has no impact on the 25 scholarships per year rule.

 

[RalphMachio99]

Yes, but there are loopholes. You can count signees forwards and backwards to get around the cap. Medical exempt and medically unable to continue guys play into as well.

All and all this was a Big Ten witch hunt that caught national press and affected the south in their attempt to even the playing field a bit.

 

[btango]

The SEC actually was the first conference to mandate single season maximums with a number of 28. Arkansas was the main reason because of a huge class that Houston Nutt signed. The University of Florida President and UGA HC Mark Richt spoke out heavily against it which is what pushed the SEC to put some restrictions in place. The Big Ten for years was the horder of talent but the SEC started to push the pace as their strength grew. Big Ten may have pushed for more reduction later but it started within for the SEC.

This post was edited on 2/16 5:20 PM by btango

 

[RalphMachio99]

Originally posted by btango:


The SEC actually was the first conference to mandate single season maximums with a number of 28. Arkansas was the main reason because of a huge class that Houston Nutt signed. The University of Florida President and UGA HC Mark Richt spoke out heavily against it which is what pushed the SEC to put some restrictions in place. The Big Ten for years was the horder of talent but the SEC started to push the pace as their strength grew. Big Ten may have pushed for more reduction later but it started within for the SEC.


This post was edited on 2/16 5:20 PM by btango

They did so because of the Big Ten's media blitzkrieg. Pick any one of 500 articles, studies or blog rants from around 2010 to 2012. It was a response to crying foul from the loudest, most overrated conference....the Big 10.

Yes, there are "Houston Nutt " rules. There are Bear Bryant rules, etc, etc. But it's important to know that they weren't doing anything illegal. I'm an ACC fan myself, but I'm not blind to who the best football conference is and why.

Just to retort: Big Ten may have pushed for more reduction later but it started within for the SEC.
Is the most inaccurate statement you could have made about these rules. The Big Ten has cried about it for years if you are or know any Big 10 people. SEC had to put rules in place b/c Delaney and his gestapo-esque crew of big ten media members and friends lead a semi-silent campaign to make sure they didn't appear too weak and b!tchlike.....but make no mistake about it- THE REASON oversigning went away was b/c the Big 10 and their crying.

 

[btango]

Originally posted by RalphMachio99:

Originally posted by btango:


The SEC actually was the first conference to mandate single season maximums with a number of 28. Arkansas was the main reason because of a huge class that Houston Nutt signed. The University of Florida President and UGA HC Mark Richt spoke out heavily against it which is what pushed the SEC to put some restrictions in place. The Big Ten for years was the horder of talent but the SEC started to push the pace as their strength grew. Big Ten may have pushed for more reduction later but it started within for the SEC.


This post was edited on 2/16 5:20 PM by btango

They did so because of the Big Ten's media blitzkrieg. Pick any one of 500 articles, studies or blog rants from around 2010 to 2012. It was a response to crying foul from the loudest, most overrated conference....the Big 10.

Yes, there are "Houston Nutt " rules. There are Bear Bryant rules, etc, etc. But it's important to know that they weren't doing anything illegal. I'm an ACC fan myself, but I'm not blind to who the best football conference is and why.

Just to retort: Big Ten may have pushed for more reduction later but it started within for the SEC.
Is the most inaccurate statement you could have made about these rules. The Big Ten has cried about it for years if you are or know any Big 10 people. SEC had to put rules in place b/c Delaney and his gestapo-esque crew of big ten media members and friends lead a semi-silent campaign to make sure they didn't appear too weak and b!tchlike.....but make no mistake about it- THE REASON oversigning went away was b/c the Big 10 and their crying.

Not saying the Big Ten was not pushing for it but the SEC enacted it first and more than a few years ahead of the other conferences. If it was due to The Big Ten, so be it. I know from dealing with people at Florida that it was a hot topic issue ten years ago. University of Florida's president specifically spoke with Urban Meyer about this early in his tenure. (Part of the reason Meyer got the job was because of the school president who had been with him at Utah.) He still "over promised" because he slow played a player I am close to in 2006 (class of 2007).

Ohio State was still over signing with Tressel a few years after the SEC put their rule in place. During the Woody Hayes era part of the recruiting was to get a player on campus if a strong team from the conference, aka Michigan, was offering them. There was no scholarship limit until the early to mid 1970's and his idea was basically better with us than against us.