Brian Flores suing NFL and several teams
- Thread starter rick64
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Ridiculous. And Unfortunately, now team owners will be hesitant to hire a black man because if they have a cruddy 3 years, and you wanna fire them, they claim racism and sue. He's doing more damage than he can imagine.
He's also mad that theres not enough black head coaches?? Well i want to know why theres not more white running backs. Seems racist.
He's also mad that theres not enough black head coaches?? Well i want to know why theres not more white running backs. Seems racist.
I don't agree with his firing but in handling it this way you've got to think it is a career limiting move.
Personally I'm totally fed up with "bringing awareness" crap because now everything is about how many black, how many women, how many latinos... instead of color-blind we're color obsessed and it is not a good thing. Reminds me of jail where people are forced to retreat into their individual racial groups. Lousy way to live and certainly a lousy way to live in our country.
Personally I'm totally fed up with "bringing awareness" crap because now everything is about how many black, how many women, how many latinos... instead of color-blind we're color obsessed and it is not a good thing. Reminds me of jail where people are forced to retreat into their individual racial groups. Lousy way to live and certainly a lousy way to live in our country.
He’s assured that he’s not getting another head coaching gig. He complained that interviews with Broncos and Giants were shams to comply with the Rooney Rule (uh yeah, the rule makes teams interview guys they do not want in the first place. That’s what the rule is).
I wouldn’t have canned him but his three years is the average tenure for a head coach.I’m sure he would’ve got another head coaching job after being a coordinator somewhere like others usually do.
I wouldn’t have canned him but his three years is the average tenure for a head coach.I’m sure he would’ve got another head coaching job after being a coordinator somewhere like others usually do.
He did very well at Miami. He’s a good coach and should get another job without question. I think he got mad and jumped the gun on this one. Sure Denver and NY didn’t do what they should’ve but this isn’t even the first time this year or ever.
In my opinion which means nothing, he should’ve just chilled, snagged the next job and moved on with a great life. I think the whole Beliceck thing pissed him off so badly he went to a lawyer who took the case, the lawyer knowing he’d get paid took it and said I’ll sink his career to make a couple mill.
In my opinion which means nothing, he should’ve just chilled, snagged the next job and moved on with a great life. I think the whole Beliceck thing pissed him off so badly he went to a lawyer who took the case, the lawyer knowing he’d get paid took it and said I’ll sink his career to make a couple mill.
If he thinks this is racist, he should see what goes on in corporate America where they are giving bonuses for hiring and promoting minorities over white men. There’s going to be a class action of all class action suits soon.
What recourse do the white guys have that were also turned down for those jobs? Self-fulfilling prophecies are often self-caused.
This just happened at my wifes job today. Im not going to give specifics, but she had a zoom meeting this morning about how they need to hire more young black people, and if they dont have a degree or experience the company will train them. Essentially, my wifes degree holds no value. That if youre black thats good enough. MLK talked about judging people on their character and not on the color of their skin.
Every single company is doing this. The backlash is coming.
Same deal at my job; most of the plant workers are black or hispanic. We hired several African Americans, a couple of those had felonies. Some were good, some weren't.
Currently, I am the only minority, and the only male on my team. I have been passed over for jobs due to gender and/or race on multiple occasions. I do not hire based on race/gender/sexual orientation; I hire based on qualifications only.
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He did very well at Miami but lost a power struggle with the GM, also an African American.
Who knows who to believe about his tenure. Did he really want DeSean Watson? Bad idea. If he did, did this lead to a lack of confidence by Tua? Did he not develop Tua enough or believe in him? His fault if true.
Giants also interviewed Leslie Frazier, another African American candidate.
Flores was going to have his problems getting another job because of power struggle and who to believe.
Tanking is another story, not sure why lumped in here.
Who knows who to believe about his tenure. Did he really want DeSean Watson? Bad idea. If he did, did this lead to a lack of confidence by Tua? Did he not develop Tua enough or believe in him? His fault if true.
Giants also interviewed Leslie Frazier, another African American candidate.
Flores was going to have his problems getting another job because of power struggle and who to believe.
Tanking is another story, not sure why lumped in here.
Teams knowing who they want before interviewing candidates isn’t unique to the NFL and it’s not new. You don’t fire a coach and then start thinking who you want. Look at the Wolford-Bama situation. Bama hired him for a position that’s not even open right now. That’s how it goes in coaching.
The average tenure in the NFL is 3 years. I think only 4 or 5 coaches were hired after 2017. NFL teams fire their coaches all the time. I’d be curious to know what the average win % is for white coaches fired and average win % is for black coaches fired. Without data like that, it’s all conjecture or perspective.
The average tenure in the NFL is 3 years. I think only 4 or 5 coaches were hired after 2017. NFL teams fire their coaches all the time. I’d be curious to know what the average win % is for white coaches fired and average win % is for black coaches fired. Without data like that, it’s all conjecture or perspective.
Ooof.. asking him to tank the team, which puts losses on HIS resume, was not a good look. But we also dont know how often that's happen to OTHER coaches who are white.
Either way, as a Jets fan who is 100% unbiased.. they should strip the draft picks of the New York Giants and Miami Dolphins.. its the only way to end this racism.
Either way, as a Jets fan who is 100% unbiased.. they should strip the draft picks of the New York Giants and Miami Dolphins.. its the only way to end this racism.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...-accuses-cleveland-browns-paying-tank-2016-17
Now Hue Jackson's saying that Cleveland paid him to tank. This is gonna get nasty.
Now Hue Jackson's saying that Cleveland paid him to tank. This is gonna get nasty.
This dude is a serious candidate for the Saints and Texans job and he does this? You would think he’d have waited until he got passed over by everyone before the claims. Getting fired for a mediocre record in the NFL isn’t uncommon, even after only 2-3 years. Not getting the first job ya want after getting fired isn’t uncommon in the NFL.
The Rooney rule does suck if a team has their guy and you’re the quota interview. Be mad at the rule or understand that this may be a common scenario - can’t have it both ways.
The Rooney rule does suck if a team has their guy and you’re the quota interview. Be mad at the rule or understand that this may be a common scenario - can’t have it both ways.
I'm starting to think Flores is just a lunatic. There was a story in the Ringer three weeks ago how he basically can't get along with anybody. Then he seems to go off the handle on this - like some others said - before the two other jobs he was in the running for were even announced.
A lot of belichick disciples try to emulate his personality and I think we saw that with Flores and the claims of how he didn't fit the culture.
That aside, black head coaches are absolutely treated differently in the NFL. What Arizona did to Steve Wilkes, Detroit to Jim Caldwell, Oakland to Art Shell (part 2) and Hue Jackson and now the Flores situation show there is some level of bias. Hell, Adam gase was retained for what, 4 years? Dude was huffing Coke and losing like crazy from day one.
Owners are far more problematic than they get credit for.
That aside, black head coaches are absolutely treated differently in the NFL. What Arizona did to Steve Wilkes, Detroit to Jim Caldwell, Oakland to Art Shell (part 2) and Hue Jackson and now the Flores situation show there is some level of bias. Hell, Adam gase was retained for what, 4 years? Dude was huffing Coke and losing like crazy from day one.
Owners are far more problematic than they get credit for.
The fact that his reaction was to file a lawsuit and go to the media this quickly (as well as throw Belichick under the bus who helped him even get the Dolphins job) speaks volumes. No way would you ever want to hire this guy.
This is a no-win situation hiring coaches like this if you’re not even sure they’re home run hires. If you don’t hire a black coach, you’re racist. If you hire and then later fire, it’s racist. If three or four teams hire a black head coach, it’s still not enough. No one can be better suited for a job, it has to be “racism.”
Flores wants to be Colin Kaepernick 2.0. The coaches like Hue trying to piggyback off of this is hilarious. You were just bad, man.
This Chris Bosh tweet is honestly so delusional and “r” and somehow it’s considered okay and displays that there is no magical number or bar short of 100% where satisfaction can be achieved.
Bosh's tweets are getting dragged. More and more people are realizing that these race hustlers have over played their hands.
Really? The average stint of a head coach is three years in the NFL. We could also cherry pick examples to hurt your narrative as well, if you want. There’s 32 separate teams.
I find it ridiculous we are having this discussion every year but no one discusses there’s no Asian head coaches or less Latino head coaches but we find a way to be offended by a lack of representation in a league that’s 70% black. This also ignores how many of this demographic have coveted coordinator jobs.
I just want someone to give me an exact number that’s “Okay. We’re good.” If we go off demographics alone of the nation, there’s 13%. So that percentage of NFL teams would mean 4. Since apparently meritocracy doesn’t matter unless it’s players. Let’s just do this across the board. I demand we have more white cornerbacks and running backs or the league is racist!
Belichick doesn't make mistakes. He wanted Flores flipping his ****. Flores knew he wasn't getting another gig in soute of having an over achieving team given what he had to work with. Chris Boshs tweet would make more sense if there weren't any black coaches but there are more now, at all levels, than there have ever been.
Hue Jackson cant be in any conversation. Fired by a black GM (who interestingly enough is currently a Miami Sr exec) and followed that up with a 3-36-1 record.
Caldwell was fine with Detroit - but that franchise sucks and they fired dudes before him and after him quickly, who had no success. He had more, but didn’t win a playoff game in 4 years.
Wilks only got 1 year in AZ - that sucks. He had the worst record in the NFL and the worst AZ record in nearly 20 years.
If you want some reality - white dudes phase out of the game earlier playing wise…if they want to stay in it, they get into coaching.
Caldwell was fine with Detroit - but that franchise sucks and they fired dudes before him and after him quickly, who had no success. He had more, but didn’t win a playoff game in 4 years.
Wilks only got 1 year in AZ - that sucks. He had the worst record in the NFL and the worst AZ record in nearly 20 years.
If you want some reality - white dudes phase out of the game earlier playing wise…if they want to stay in it, they get into coaching.
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Gase was fired twice - after 3 years with Miami (opening season playoff loss), and 2 seasons with NYJ.
Jackson coached for historically bad teams/owners who took a a chance on him. The makeup of his 8-8 Oakland team could have been much better in year two. They instead hired an unproven Defensive coordinator who then went 8-28. Reggie McKenzie had no business being a GM. He was also quoted as being pissed that Jackson traded for Palmer and spent too much draft collateral to get him. That was Oakland trying to be a bit woke in it's first big hire at GM. They then proceeded to let Jon Gruden run the franchise into the ground with a fake GM for the next several seasons.
Caldwell was more than fine in Detroit, he was the best coach they've had in two decades. Caldwell also lost a controversial game in 14 vs Dallas and lost his starting QB late in the season in his only other trip to the playoffs. There's a reason he's a legitimate head coaching candidate even today.
Steve Wilkes was given nothing to work with. He was basically a placeholder until they could hire someone else. If I recall correctly, didn't they just draft Josh Rosen and trade away several important pieces? While it sucks, the same thing just happened to David Cullen as well.
White dude's not lasting as long in the league seems off to me for some reason though. I do know many retire earlier (Keuchly comes to mind) for health reasons but I also think that many of the white dude's in the league are QB's who tend to have longer careers than, say, a running back or linebacker.
Either way, there are examples of black coaches getting treated differently and it's hard for me to say that it's racism. I'm not one to quickly pull that card. The difficulty of this example is that the sample size is relatively small. Perhaps the least talked about example is Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh. I don't like the Rooney rule, it's the reason this whole thing even happened to be honest, but at least he sticks by his guns on his preferences. If the Giants would have just completed the token interview first, I feel slimy writing that, this wouldn't have been an issue.
The Broncos thing about being hungover is kind of a non-starter to me. Too much he said, she said there.
Caldwell was more than fine in Detroit, he was the best coach they've had in two decades. Caldwell also lost a controversial game in 14 vs Dallas and lost his starting QB late in the season in his only other trip to the playoffs. There's a reason he's a legitimate head coaching candidate even today.
Steve Wilkes was given nothing to work with. He was basically a placeholder until they could hire someone else. If I recall correctly, didn't they just draft Josh Rosen and trade away several important pieces? While it sucks, the same thing just happened to David Cullen as well.
White dude's not lasting as long in the league seems off to me for some reason though. I do know many retire earlier (Keuchly comes to mind) for health reasons but I also think that many of the white dude's in the league are QB's who tend to have longer careers than, say, a running back or linebacker.
Either way, there are examples of black coaches getting treated differently and it's hard for me to say that it's racism. I'm not one to quickly pull that card. The difficulty of this example is that the sample size is relatively small. Perhaps the least talked about example is Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh. I don't like the Rooney rule, it's the reason this whole thing even happened to be honest, but at least he sticks by his guns on his preferences. If the Giants would have just completed the token interview first, I feel slimy writing that, this wouldn't have been an issue.
The Broncos thing about being hungover is kind of a non-starter to me. Too much he said, she said there.
I said all that to say this, the Rooney rule is ******** and forces actual racist practices. The NFL is a club 100% about knowing or working with people in power. GM's hire their favorite assistant coaches from their previous gig all the time and flame out. Everyone makes a ton of money and moves on to their next gig as assistant "fill in their former title here" and no one bats an eye.
Some may view that as racist.
Some may view that as racist.
I wasn’t talking about white NFLers. I was talking about white players in general - who want to stay in the game. McVay for example was a college WR, but not good enough to do anything any longer. Coen, Stoops, etc. Took Marrow longer to get into coaching bc he actually made it to the league. If Mike Tomlin were a great player, he wouldn’t be the coach he is…got started at 23 bc his playing ceiling was hit.
NFL is ruthless on coaches. Marty Schottenheimer got fired after a 14-2 season,
NFL is ruthless on coaches. Marty Schottenheimer got fired after a 14-2 season,
I misunderstood your white player comment then. That's a good point about entering coaching earlier though if you hit your peak. Would explain the disparity in higher level white coaches for sure. I thought the McVay's, LaFleur's and Zac Taylor's of the world would be bad hires but appear to be the future of the sport. Everyone wants that offensive savant who eats and sleeps the game now.
Interesting to see where we go from here.
Interesting to see where we go from here.
The best right now seem to be very similar to McVay, Zac Taylor and (gasp) Mike Tomlin and Brian Flores... dudes who didn't get a second in the NFL and jumped in their early to mid-20's into the NFL coaching ranks. That's why this nonsense about how the coaching ranks should mirror the race of players on the field is insane. Frankly, the racial makeup of the NFL head coaching ranks should mirror fortune 500 management. So it should be like 25% Indian dudes.
So nice to see all the people that defend corruption in here. This guy is just calling out a corrupt owner and a corrupt system. The NFL Owners are so racist when you force them to interview black guys they show up hungover and disheveled to the interview and negotiate offers with the white guy while your in the waiting room for your interview. Not only that when they finally hire a black guy they offer him $100,000 a game to lose on purpose. No racism to see here. Nope. No sir.
You do know the GM of Miami is black and hated Flores's guts and wanted him out, right? Can you acknowledge that? Or are you just going to call him an Uncle Tom?
Could owners be a little more open to black head coaches? Yeah, I think so. It seems to be a bit of a good ol' boys club.
But I also think this just happens to be a period where there's a bit of a lull in black coaching. Todd Bowles was the Jets head coach for 4 years with 0 head coaching experience. We took a chance on him, and gave him ample time (as far as our ****** organization goes), and it just didn't seem he was ready to be a HC. But, he's likely going to get looks very soon if Tampa Bay defense keeps up.
We have 1 black coach now, and I think at peak, we had, what.. 3-4? With the amount of Caucasians in the coaching ranks, and 32 white owners who, lets be honest, stay with their kind... hard to see how that number will/should be much higher.
I think we'll get back there. Like Beck said, there's this new infatuation with young wunderkind head coaches, and that's eating a lot of opportunities.
But I also think this just happens to be a period where there's a bit of a lull in black coaching. Todd Bowles was the Jets head coach for 4 years with 0 head coaching experience. We took a chance on him, and gave him ample time (as far as our ****** organization goes), and it just didn't seem he was ready to be a HC. But, he's likely going to get looks very soon if Tampa Bay defense keeps up.
We have 1 black coach now, and I think at peak, we had, what.. 3-4? With the amount of Caucasians in the coaching ranks, and 32 white owners who, lets be honest, stay with their kind... hard to see how that number will/should be much higher.
I think we'll get back there. Like Beck said, there's this new infatuation with young wunderkind head coaches, and that's eating a lot of opportunities.
If Sean Payton announces he wants to return to coaching, do you really think it’s fair to the owner who has to interview two minorities after him - or fair to the minorities knowing Sean Payton is the man, legitimately?
If you’re Flores and you got the Texans and Saints extremely interested- land a job and go beat the hell out of the dolphins and Giants for however long you can.
If you’re Flores and you got the Texans and Saints extremely interested- land a job and go beat the hell out of the dolphins and Giants for however long you can.
What's the right amount of black coaches before people are cool with the ratio? I'd like to know that.
Probably proportionate to their percentage in the coaching ranks. I'm just saying it seems like owners are a little more bearish on hiring black coaches. I don't know if it's just because they have "their" guys, or it's PR related (only the HC speaks to media), or a little bit of both.
I guess it's just weird that roughly 40% of the assistant positions are held by black coaches but that doesn't transcend to the next level.
Mind you, not every assistant can or should be a head coach. But, assuredly it should be more than one, right?
It also further proves the Rooney rule doesn't work. Hell, when Oakland hired Gruden, Mark Davis' dumbass didn't even pick up the phone for another person and literally nothing happened to him for it. Mark Davis may be the most "progressive" owner in the league and even he is deferential to the rule.
Mind you, not every assistant can or should be a head coach. But, assuredly it should be more than one, right?
It also further proves the Rooney rule doesn't work. Hell, when Oakland hired Gruden, Mark Davis' dumbass didn't even pick up the phone for another person and literally nothing happened to him for it. Mark Davis may be the most "progressive" owner in the league and even he is deferential to the rule.
I think the Giants would have hired him if they didn't just hire Bills Assistant GM Schoen.. and therefore, making perfect sense to hire the Bills OC, almost in a tandem package. The Giants were focused on getting the GM first, as he's more important, and he was the first to go anyways. I think if not for Daboll.. they would have hired Flores. Hell every Giants fan I know wanted him.
I think there has to be a little bit of PR in this, in that owners are a bit more apprehensive to have a black head coach as the one speaking to media and the fans. Not saying that's the only factor... but that is really the only thing (duties aside) that seperates the HC from all the other staff.. HC talks to media, the rest of the staff dont
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