Brilliant post from Kyle's blog about the baseball situation.

[Todd4State]

i don't think we ought to just haul off and start killing people like that. however, i see your point. problem is, he's been nothing short of an
unmitigated disaster as a coach. y'all started the year, what, 8-1? and have since gone something like 13-26. you've got a long tradition of
exceptional baseball at MSU. you're going to have people calling for his head.

Our unmitigated disaster would have been helped out if Ricky Bowen had his head on straight. I'd say that nut job cost us at least five wins right there. And again, we shouldn't be in a position that we have to depend on one guy, so I'm not throwing him under the bus. I am throwing Polk under the bus for putting us in that situation.

I hardly think having a bad first season is a barometer for anything. Augie Garrido had a losing season his second year at Texas. I bet they're glad they held onto him. Pitino went 14-14 or something like that his first year at UK. Saban went 7-6 or something like that, including losses to ULM and Croom.

The bottom line is this- we don't have the players. But I think that there are some good signs- and despite what you think about stats, we have improved offensively, defensively we have stayed exactly the same, and our pitching staff has improved by half a run. Our team last year had Aaron Weatherford to help the pitching stats last year and also was about as automatic as it came as a closer. We don't have ANYONE like that this year. Then you look at the recruits that he is bringing in from his first class and then what he is starting on in his second class, and I would have to say that is an encouraging sign.

Next year, I think we are going to have a lot of Fr, especially on the pitching staff, but he's bringing in guys that are going to fit his "image", and in about two years, we should be pretty good.

 

[anon1751035439]

Cohen is trying to change the entire attitude and culture of MSU baseball. The current players he has now don't share that attitude. I think if you ask Cohen to be "less intense" or whatever you want to call it, you're asking him to not be himself. HE is the coach, THEY are the players, it is their job to carry out what he wants them to do, and yes, it is his job to make sure they do it.

 

[Todd4State]

So, it doesn't fit.

The main difference is when I say that Cohen has to change our culture, I'm talking about the players AND the fans. A lot of our baseball fans live in what I call "The Bermuda Golden Triangle of baseball." They think that MSU has a team on par with the Yankees and that we could win the CWS because "we are MSU". Their idea of good baseball is MSU and maybe New Hope HS. They've never been to a Major League game, seen other college teams, and think that we are still the mecca of college baseball. They think that Ole Miss having a winning season is a fluke- I guess a 12 years or so and running fluke, but don't try to tell them that. They bought every Ron Polk line, hook, line, and sinker because he "wrote the book". Because of that, Cohen and his attitude of trying to win instead of simply trying to be "classier" than the other team, as we have done for at least the past seven years, has been as much a shock to their system as it has to the players. And to be honest, you still have some Polk/Raffo croonies around that think that Raffo could do better, and they're getting their shots in while they can. See the persons post in the blog.

For Cohen, I think getting the players that fit his "image" is a matter of recruiting and turnover in a matter of a few years. For him that is going to be easy as opposed to getting the fans to totally buy into what he is doing. I think that comes with winning. But to do that, he has to do step one- get good players.

O didn't have to do that with the fans. Ole Miss fans were arrogant pricks before O, during O, and not surprisingly, after O. The culture there has been the same for awhile, I would say. But OK, he was partially brought in to fire the team up. But here again, all he had to do was recruits players that fit his style or whatever.

 

[windcrysmary]

wow

 

[bulldogbaja]

definition of irony

 

[dawgmaster]

Coming in to this year, all of us MSU fans knew what we were in for. We were all just hoping it might turn out better, but we knew deep down the talent returning just is not up to par right now. New Coach? Jeeeeeezzzzz!

 

[jackstefano]

you're always confused about everything. i'm confused as to who said cohen had to act like a minister. i didn't. i'm further confused by what cohen's good year at UK or Bianco's record at OM have to do with the gigantic suckitude of you team this year. perhaps you can help me with that.

 

[Horatio Caine.nafoom]

because we can all read.

What the previous poster said was that you make their point if you (not specifically you) make those substitutions.

Ed Orgeron was an ***-hole egomaniac who thought he could simply recruit himself out of the "mess" (in reality, a decent team in 2005 that was better than the record) that he was left with. He constantly berated the players in practice and in the public forum. He berated them in the press. He rarely, if ever, took fault for mistakes or losses or this or that. He constantly talked about how it would be better when he got "his" players into Ole Miss, in his system, and playing like he wanted. Hell, even during the 2007 season he was quoted as saying "we need more SEC players," despite the fact something like 19 or 20 of the starters were his players. All the while, he never had a winning season, or even came close.

At this point, that is comparable to John Cohen's actions this season. Yes, Cohen does have more experience, though his tenure at UK is tainted both by the fact that he couldn't win a regional (after blowing a chance at a National Seed in the SECT) and that the team he left behind this year blows donkey balls, they are absolutely terrible (bottom half of the league in hitting, pitching, and fielding). Somehow, I don't think John Cohen was the difference in nearly 20 wins (they're 24-23 now, were 44-19 last year).

Now, none of us know how John Cohen will end up. He could win SEC Titles and go to Omaha every other. He could end up a massive failure. Either one is just as likely as the other. He could end up anywhere in between.

But, to state that any comparison between how Orgeron acted and the perception from both his fanbase and opposing fanbases and Cohen's current actions is null and void is...well...ignorant and sheepish. The comparisons are viable AT THIS POINT. Two years from now, they may be right, they may be as far from the truth as possible. The good thing is, we get to find out, barring a Mike Price-esque collapse into stupidity.

Disclaimer: I understand that fans will be fans and first year coaches will get passes (usually). Hell, even that dumbass Orgeron got passes from the Ole Miss fanbase for an entire year...and some STILL give him passes.

 

[Henry Kissinger]

so:

as long a coach shares a similar intensity as orgeron and doesn't win in his first year, a comparison of him to orgeron at the coach's new school is valid regardless of the coach's previous history. see, and that was succinct.

but (and i realize you put it in much more, um, untouchable terms so pounce away if your reading comprehension boner gets too big to handle) saying that his success or failure at state is some 50-50 crap shoot is just stupid. you can follow the formula of "clearly you didn't understand and of course you failed to realize in conclusion i am the smartest message board poster ever (just look at my nafoom tag)", but that would just be a waste of my time. and of your surely more valuable time.

 

[rugbdawg]

Dumbass. It's obviously not my post. I reposted it to show the brilliance of some of our "fans."

 

[patdog]

And there's no comparison between Cohen and Orgeron no matter how hard you try to confabulate one. Orgeron had never coached a day in his life even one level below head coach when you hired him. He was a defensive line coach who was not anywhere near being ready to be a head coach, especially not in the SEC. Cohen has been a head coach at a low-Div. I school, the top assistant at a top SEC school, and a head coach in the SEC with an SEC title on his resume. Cohen has a proven record of success as a head coach. Orgeron didn't even have a record as a coordinator.

 

[patdog]

An honest question for you and the board: Could this year have been less brutal for you with a baseball coach more like Nutt?

I realize Nutt is a god to you people, but please.

What if Polk had left Cohen the same level of talent that Big O left Nutt?

What if Orgeron had left Nutt the same level of talent that Polk left Cohen? I can guarantee no Rebels would be singing Nutt's praises so loudly then. And that's not to say he's not a good coach. He is. But good coach + no talent = losing season.

 

[Horatio Caine.nafoom]

Obviously some of your response comes from your GenesPage/Spirit-esque detest of NAFOOM posters (those dirty Rebels), for whatever reason that is. At no point did I claim superiority due to relation of a messageboard. You are a dumbass for suggesting such.

Now, to the rest of your post:

I didn't say that every coach that is intense and doesn't win compares to Orgeron.

I picked specific traits that are exactly the same between Orgeron and Cohen to explain the position offered previously. I even said that Cohen has a better history, but I don't remember him talking **** about his players at UK....and if he did, nobody down here would notice anyways.

I don't think Cohen will be as bad as Ed Orgeron, for the record. BUT, I did say that, to dismiss all and any valid comparisons of actions that Orgeron and Cohen have made that are VERY similar is ignorant and sheepish.

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

Cohen was the right hire there is no doubt, if he can win big at Kentucky he will win huge at State. There are a multitude of reasons that Raffo would have been the wrong hire. One is that part of the reason that the hitting has sucked so bad at State the last decade has been Raffos and Polks philosophy of oppo hitting, which is retarded, because they would have guys come in who could bomb, (Like Rutledge) and change their swing to an inside out ***** swing trying to go the other way with everything then them forgetting how to hit and becoming terrible. Now that may work with some players, like JRea but that should not be a blanket approach, some should be allowed to just grip it and rip it, such as Powers and Duffy are being allowed to do this year. Another problem is that Raffo would have kept Mcnickle as the pitching coach which he should not have been for the last three years, Mcnickle managed to run off or ruin most of the half *** decent pitchers that State had, and managed to recruit guys like Hollinghead who is righthanded and throws 81 in the SEC, and they wonder why they are getting destroyed all over the field, the program really spiraled when Rock left for Memphis, because he was basically the guy running the program at UGA and State, once he left it went downhill quickly. </p>

Long post but all in all Cohen is the guy for the job even if this first year is ****** (pitching staff is a joke), but really State is 2-3 pitchers away from being a competitive team, this year many of the guys on the pitching staff are pitching in roles they should never be in, but this will change next year with some new recruits in</p>

 

[Todd4State]

Is this you?

First of all, do you know how many of Cohen's players currently start on our baseball team? Zero. That's a big difference than having 19-20 of your own players playing and berating them, especially since a football team has at least 26 players, including special teams, that start. Last time I checked, 20 was more than 0, but maybe it's the wool.

 

[Horatio Caine.nafoom]

Lets try to stay on task here.

 

[Todd4State]

You said yourself that O brought in 20 of his own players and then berated them. Cohen is berating POLK'S players. Not his.

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

They are Cohens players now, Polk may have recruited them but they are Cohens players now, some of the stuff he has done has been bad, it is never right as a Coach to throw the players under the bus like he has done, but I think it is just his built up frustration and the difference from the atmosphere that he had when he was here as a player, I think he will be much better once he gets his recruits in here.</p>

 

[8dog]

he even said in the paper the other day "its my fault" that things are translating from practice to the field.

But of course, no one wanted to post about that.

I think its funny that people get so worked up over the couple of times he's ripped our pitching or over the one time he sent Whitney out there for 144 pitches.

People need to be focusing on who is coming back, who is coming in and who is going to get drafted. That stuff is far more important to our program and concerns me way more than anything else.

 

[Todd4State]

with a coach saying that his pitchers can't throw strikes. Especially when it's warranted.

I feel like if you don't want your coach to "berate" you, how about getting the job done? And if you can't, you need to go.

 

[Horatio Caine.nafoom]

I said Orgeron had 20 starters that were his players in 2007, his third and final year as HC. He berated them then in public and private.

He also berated the players that were not his in public and in private in 2005, when he was a 1st year Head Coach.

Its really, really simple. I don't know how you go that confused.

 

[thunderclap]

I mean, damn, what do you expect him to do with Polk's leftovers? Think about that for a minute: Polk's leftovers. Our offense is noticeably better. Our pitching isn't. But to call this a "brutal tenure" is just ridiculous. And yeah, he's been tough as hell on our players. So what? I'm guessing he's trying to run off as many as he can and I'm glad for it.</p>

I think all sensible people knew we'd struggle this year.</p>

 

[Sutterkane]

[No message]

 

[Sutterkane]

considering he actually accomplished something as a head coach prior to, if you're wanting a "oh god please let the worst happen" scenario to happen, eggbowl.com style.

 

[o_1984Dawg]

I don't think Cohen will be as bad as Ed Orgeron, for the record. BUT, I did say that, to dismiss all and any valid comparisons of actions that Orgeron and Cohen have made that are VERY similar is ignorant and sheepish.

I think the main reason that myself and most state fans more or less dismiss those comparisons is because we don't attribute Orgeron's failure to those things. We attribute his failure to him being an unqualified moron. His attitude was just a bonus. And frankly, I've read more about Orgeron's berating of his players in this thread than I remember reading in his 3 years. Not saying it didn't happen. I'm sure you keep up with your team much more than I do. I just don't remember it being a big deal.

 

[Todd4State]

And you know that Cohen is going to berate his players three years from now how?

Hell, you could compare Cohen to Nick Saban to. He basically cleaned house, had little talent in his first year (although he did have some of his recruits there unlike Cohen just because fo the way football works), has won Championships, and is very intense and animated on the sideline.

 

[MagnoliaHunter]

We have a <font color="#FF0000">LARGE</font> part of our fanbase that has zero clue how far our talent level is currently down about anything sports related.

 

[oem]

nm