Bryce Harper vs Rob Manfred

[Dawgg]

Apparently, Harper told Manfred to get the 17 out of the Phillies clubhouse over the idea of MLB instituting salary caps. I have to wonder if MLB is out trying to drum up support for salary caps as a performative thing to make people believe it’s necessary for league survival or if the league may actually be in legit trouble. Losing ESPN may have been a bigger blow than I realized.

I really just 17ing love baseball, but I also understand that I’m in a dwindling collection of people that do.

Sources: Harper cussed out Manfred in meeting

Bryce Harper told MLB commissioner Rob Manfred to "get the f--- out of our clubhouse" during a meeting with the Phillies about the game's economics, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[jethreauxdawg]

It’s going to be hard for a league to survive if only 6 teams’ fans believe they have a chance to win. The lockout is coming.

 

[dorndawg]

It’s going to be hard for a league to survive if only 6 teams’ fans believe they have a chance to win. The lockout is coming.

There might be a lockout coming, but my impression is there is a more competitiveness across the league now than earlier eras. For example, we've had 9 different teams win the World Series in the last 11 seasons. Also, well over half the current playoff teams haven't won the WS in those 11 seasons including the team with the best record (Blue Jays)

 

[patdog]

There might be a lockout coming, but my impression is there is a more competitiveness across the league now than earlier eras. For example, we've had 9 different teams win the World Series in the last 11 seasons.

View attachment 857129

Interesting. And one very notable team not on the list.

 

[ll Martain ll]

With all due respect to Bryce Harper, he's the wrong person to speak for the MLB union. He already got his 9 digit payday. Ask the utility infielder who is the 26th guy on the roster making the league minimum and signed out of college for a $10k bonus.

Tie the salary cap to league revenue, and also have a salary floor. It gives direct incentive to ALL players to be as fun and entertaining as possible--if the league makes more money, the players do too.

Sure MLB wants a Dodgers/Yankees world series every year for ratings, but is that more economically desirable that having parity? I'd love MLB to open their books and prove it.

 

[JackShephard]

Bryce Harper, the most entitled baby to ever play the game. Castellanos handled it like a man, Harper just like the brat he's always been. Great player. Whiney brat.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

With all due respect to Bryce Harper, he's the wrong person to speak for the MLB union. He already got his 9 digit payday. Ask the utility infielder who is the 26th guy on the roster making the league minimum and signed out of college for a $10k bonus.

Tie the salary cap to league revenue, and also have a salary floor. It gives direct incentive to ALL players to be as fun and entertaining as possible--if the league makes more money, the players do too.

Sure MLB wants a Dodgers/Yankees world series every year for ratings, but is that more economically desirable that having parity? I'd love MLB to open their books and prove it.

I agree with this generally, but I had a new thought when reading an article about the recent NFLPA scandal. The point was in all of pro sports you have to have your highest-earning players be the loudest and most firm on salary negotiations, because the average career length is so short and average salary is so small that the other players don't have the luxury of threatening.

I don't know if that is relevant for baseball since there's no cap, but I do think it makes sense for why the highest paid guy on the team is talking. Also, Bryce Harper is a b*tch.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Bryce Harper, the most entitled baby to ever play the game. Castellanos handled it like a man, Harper just like the brat he's always been. Great player. Whiney brat.

#IstandWithPapelbon

 

[jethreauxdawg]

There might be a lockout coming, but my impression is there is a more competitiveness across the league now than earlier eras. For example, we've had 9 different teams win the World Series in the last 11 seasons. Also, well over half the current playoff teams haven't won the WS in those 11 seasons including the team with the best record (Blue Jays)

View attachment 857129

Valid, but I think things have drastically changed since the Mets ownership change. As a fan of a non-large market team, I want to see more balance in the league. I think MLB should copy the NFL.

 

[Perd Hapley]

NFL revenue in 2024 was $23 billion.
285 total games were played, 272 regular season and 13 postseason. Average revenue per contest played was $80.7 million. Average revenue per rostered player is $13.56 million. Average NFL salary is $3.2 million, which represents about 24% of money going back to the active players (excludes pension as well as health care and other benefits provided to both active and former players).

NBA revenue in 2024-2025 was $10.25 billion. 1,314 total games played, 1,230 regular season and 84 postseason. Average revenue per contest played is about $7.8 million. Average revenue per rostered player is $18.9 million (including both regular and 2 way contracts). Average annual salary was $11.9 million, which represents 63% of the money going back to the players (excluding retiree benefits and health care, etc.).

MLB revenue in 2024 season was $12.1 billion. 2,473 total games played, 2,430 regular season and 43 postseason. Average revenue per contest was $4.89 million. Average revenue per rostered player is $16.1 million. Average MLB salary is $4.65 million, so around 28.8% of the money is making it back to the players (excluding health care and pension stuff).

Seems like Harper is a moron, and the MLBPA’s take as a whole on a salary cap is very shortsighted, and damaging to the players’ future revenue opportunities. But it’s also what I’d expect an aging player on a mega deal to say about it, so there’s that. The MLB players are already forfeiting about the same share of the revenue back to the owners as the NFL players are, probably more actually when you consider the value of the NFL’s pension, in spite of the fact that the MLB is only yielding about 6% of the revenue that the NFL generates on a per-game basis. Even if you amortized it out a bit and assumed 5 games per week for MLB, it’s still just 30% of what NFL generates on a weekly basis in-season.

And when compared to the NBA, its even worse….the NBA players are getting far more of the revenue back in their pockets than MLB, and they are doing it while playing less games. They also show almost double the revenue on a per game basis as MLB, and that’s with a salary cap.

 

[Choctaw Dawg]

MLB season will not start on time next year which I think is a given based on past history with fights between the MLBPA and MLB. This won't be pretty.

 

[Dawgg]

NFL revenue in 2024 was $23 billion.
285 total games were played, 272 regular season and 13 postseason. Average revenue per contest played was $80.7 million. Average revenue per rostered player is $13.56 million. Average NFL salary is $3.2 million, which represents about 24% of money going back to the active players (excludes pension as well as health care and other benefits provided to both active and former players).

NBA revenue in 2024-2025 was $10.25 billion. 1,314 total games played, 1,230 regular season and 84 postseason. Average revenue per contest played is about $7.8 million. Average revenue per rostered player is $18.9 million (including both regular and 2 way contracts). Average annual salary was $11.9 million, which represents 63% of the money going back to the players (excluding retiree benefits and health care, etc.).

MLB revenue in 2024 season was $12.1 billion. 2,473 total games played, 2,430 regular season and 43 postseason. Average revenue per contest was $4.89 million. Average revenue per rostered player is $16.1 million. Average MLB salary is $4.65 million, so around 28.8% of the money is making it back to the players (excluding health care and pension stuff).

Seems like Harper is a moron, and the MLBPA’s take as a whole on a salary cap is very shortsighted, and damaging to the players’ future revenue opportunities. But it’s also what I’d expect an aging player on a mega deal to say about it, so there’s that. The MLB players are already forfeiting about the same share of the revenue back to the owners as the NFL players are, probably more actually when you consider the value of the NFL’s pension, in spite of the fact that the MLB is only yielding about 6% of the revenue that the NFL generates on a per-game basis. Even if you amortized it out a bit and assumed 5 games per week for MLB, it’s still just 30% of what NFL generates on a weekly basis in-season.

And when compared to the NBA, its even worse….the NBA players are getting far more of the revenue back in their pockets than MLB, and they are doing it while playing less games. They also show almost double the revenue on a per game basis as MLB, and that’s with a salary cap.

Do your numbers account for minor league ballplayers? Not debating, just curious. MLB teams pay for the salaries of those guys. I know individually the salaries are tiny, but there are 120 Minor League teams, each with 25-30 players on the roster, so somewhere between 3,000 and 3,600 minor leaguers getting paid by Major League teams. NFL doesn’t have that burden since it doesn’t subsidize college or the UFL and the NBA just barely does with the G-League (like 300-360 players).

 

[HotMop]

Interesting. And one very notable team not on the list.

Tampa Bay Rays?

 

[Dawgg]

Tampa Bay Rays?

 

[HotMop]

Valid, but I think things have drastically changed since the Mets ownership change. As a fan of a non-large market team, I want to see more balance in the league. I think MLB should copy the NFL.

Hell, I'd prefer the MLB to go to a Premier League format.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I agree with this generally, but I had a new thought when reading an article about the recent NFLPA scandal. The point was in all of pro sports you have to have your highest-earning players be the loudest and most firm on salary negotiations, because the average career length is so short and average salary is so small that the other players don't have the luxury of threatening.

I don't know if that is relevant for baseball since there's no cap, but I do think it makes sense for why the highest paid guy on the team is talking. Also, Bryce Harper is a b*tch.

Exactly.

Harper’s main audience are the folks on their first contracts.

Manfred knows this too.

 

[Dawgg]

I agree with this generally, but I had a new thought when reading an article about the recent NFLPA scandal. The point was in all of pro sports you have to have your highest-earning players be the loudest and most firm on salary negotiations, because the average career length is so short and average salary is so small that the other players don't have the luxury of threatening.

I don't know if that is relevant for baseball since there's no cap, but I do think it makes sense for why the highest paid guy on the team is talking. Also, Bryce Harper is a b*tch.

Yeah, I wanna say when the NFL went through this a few years ago, the first two to file suits were Tom Brady and Drew Brees. I could be misremembering that though.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Do your numbers account for minor league ballplayers? Not debating, just curious. MLB teams pay for the salaries of those guys. I know individually the salaries are tiny, but there are 120 Minor League teams, each with 25-30 players on the roster, so somewhere between 3,000 and 3,600 minor leaguers getting paid by Major League teams. NFL doesn’t have that burden since it doesn’t subsidize college or the UFL and the NBA just barely does with the G-League (like 300-360 players).

No, because MiLB revenue numbers are not included in MLB’s annual revenue numbers. Those teams are privately owned and they keep all their ticket sales, most of the merch sales, etc. But, they’re also responsible for stadium upkeep / leasing, a lot of the travel costs, etc. Its also a drop in the bucket. An entire AAA roster’s annual salary isn’t going to be much more than $1 million or so (average of $45k or so per player). AA would be more like $700-$800k, A ball more like $400k-$500k. Those players also aren’t part of the MLB players’ union, so they don’t really have any part in shaping the policy for the CBA, so I didn’t consider them mainly for that reason. It’s just too messy. I felt if I included the MiLB salaries, I’d also have to add in those players making the money in the calculation, and that would make it appear even worse than it already does.

For example….If I recalculated it and added $3 million / team (ballpark estimate) for MiLB salaries, $10 million per team for bonus pool payments from current year’s draft, but then added 100 players per team to account for the 4 levels (rookie A, high A, AA, AAA), then it would look like this….

$3.2 million revenue per rostered player

$1.06 million average salary for 126 players at all 5 levels

Players as a whole get 33% of the revenue (up from 28% number shown above), but its extremely misleading because only the current year’s Top 3-4 draft picks and the MLB veterans on at least their 2nd contract (maybe 12-15 players per team) would be getting anywhere close to that $1 million number. Thats less than 20% of the players making above the average. And doing it that way doesn’t really change the story, just muddies the water. Fact is that the average is pulled up by the mega deals. If you threw out the top 2-3 highest and lowest salaries on each team, it’d be a much more sobering picture of what’s really happening…..which is 80-90% of MLB / MiLB players taking home a very small piece of the pie compared to those same level players in other pro sports.

 

[ll Martain ll]

I agree with this generally, but I had a new thought when reading an article about the recent NFLPA scandal. The point was in all of pro sports you have to have your highest-earning players be the loudest and most firm on salary negotiations, because the average career length is so short and average salary is so small that the other players don't have the luxury of threatening.

I don't know if that is relevant for baseball since there's no cap, but I do think it makes sense for why the highest paid guy on the team is talking. Also, Bryce Harper is a b*tch.

That's a fair point, but those players also have the most to gain and the least to lose from a salary cap. Baseball superstars get paid no matter what, but without a cap that number is limitless. With a cap/floor it makes the middle and lower end players worth more. He can be outspoken, but he needs to remember he's a generational talent who got paid 6+ million before ever stepping on a pro field, and who can never know what it's like to be a AAAA/shuttle bus/league minimum guy.

I really think a salary floor is more valuable than a cap--stop letting teams like the Marlins make annual profit on league revenue sharing and purposefully fielding a league minimum salary roster.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

With all due respect to Bryce Harper, he's the wrong person to speak for the MLB union. He already got his 9 digit payday. Ask the utility infielder who is the 26th guy on the roster making the league minimum and signed out of college for a $10k bonus.

Tie the salary cap to league revenue, and also have a salary floor. It gives direct incentive to ALL players to be as fun and entertaining as possible--if the league makes more money, the players do too.

Sure MLB wants a Dodgers/Yankees world series every year for ratings, but is that more economically desirable that having parity? I'd love MLB to open their books and prove it.

I've had a similar argument about college sports for a long time.

The NIL Pandoras Box was opened by the top 1% and their lawyers.

I still believe after the dust settles it will end up as a net loss for 90 per cent of college athletes.

 

[Perd Hapley]

There might be a lockout coming, but my impression is there is a more competitiveness across the league now than earlier eras. For example, we've had 9 different teams win the World Series in the last 11 seasons. Also, well over half the current playoff teams haven't won the WS in those 11 seasons including the team with the best record (Blue Jays)

View attachment 857129

The teams themselves may be changing, but the payrolls that are winning those titles are the same.

In that 11 year period you show above, there’s not a single team that was outside the Top 17 payrolls in the league for that particular season. 6 of the 11 teams had a Top 7 payroll. 8 of 11 had a Top 10 payroll. Only 2 of the 11 were outside the Top 15, both of which were 17th….and its been 8 years since anyone outside the Top 13 has won it. And if you want to include the 2025 Blue Jays in your example, they have the 5th highest payroll this season.

Baseball is as random as it gets as far as sports success and results vs. talent levels, so seeing that level of correlation between paying big and winning big is pretty significant. It’s a “buy a title” model just like college football is, except worse because the product is far more unwatchable. Taking over half of the league out of title contention before the first pitch of spring training is not a good recipe for fan interest at all.

 

[Tall Dawg]

Interesting. And one very notable team not on the list.

My St Louis Cardinals….

 

[hatfieldms]

It’s going to be hard for a league to survive if only 6 teams’ fans believe they have a chance to win. The lockout is coming.

That’s the nba. Baseball has had quite a few different teams win it over the years

 

[patdog]

My St Louis Cardinals….

Yeah. That team too.