Bunker busters
- Thread starter Howiefeltersnstch
- Start date
Haven't heard that, but would it have been done by the Israelis, the US, or the Iranians themselves?
Forget it, he's rolling.
Defending the invasion of Iraq, supporting Ukraine only to stop defending them and gas lighting that support, defending the level of human rights violations in Gaza, and advocating for regime change in Iran.
That is a really tough tight rope for a lot of peopleto walk.
Some really wild justifying going on.
The world is a better place without sadam. Fact.
17 Russia but Europe should be footing 75% of that bill not the USA.
the only human rights violations in Gaza are committed by Hamas. I mean I’m sure there are few by Israel just like in Ukraine and anywhere else.
the entire Middle East hates Iran leadership minus a few terroriisf states. Including 80% of Iranians.
I am an American loving moderate, that leans Libertarian that is sick of our nation dropping billions on wars. I am for war when it is required, but the last 25 years in the Middle East has been awful with not much good coming from it. I know so many veterans l that have been forgotten and I think our money would be better spent on them. Also, I hate seeing innocent women and children killed in these conflicts. I know people from Iran, Israel, Lebanon, and Iraq. I have learned that Washington doesn’t care about them, but the highest bidder.
I'm surprised, yet glad this thread has remained open. I'll share the following from the last week as information only. What little bias there may be, it's usually towards the opposite direction of how I perceive things. I found the last one quite interesting on Iran's overall strategy of aggression and how it has crumbled.
I mean, it's really not a tight rope. There are certainly arguments for why encouraging Ukraine to continue to fight a war it can't win to delay the inevitable is in the US's best interest. There are also arguments for why continuing the war risks escalation that could be harmful to the US and other countries outside of Ukraine. There is also just the moral/consequentialist argument that young men shouldn't keep dying in Ukraine in the hopes that Russia eventually gives up if they can end the dying now by ceding some territory Russia captured.
Your statement about the human rights violations in Gaza is just something we have to deal with because there is so much antisemitism it has brainwashed people who are (hopefully) not antisemitic. No other country is held to a standard anywhere near what Israel is held to. There is literally nothing they could do except roll over and die and cease to exist as a country that would stop them from being regularly accused of human rights violations.
Iran sponsors Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis and is regularly engaged in human rights abuses against its own people. There is risk for the people in Iran that what comes next is worse. But I'm not sure how big of a risk that is for the US. Certainly doesn't seem big enough that we shouldn't want a regime change. Advocating it without getting troops involved seems like a pretty low risk position in the context of foreign policy.
That article continually called people who don't support going to war with Iran, 'isolationists'.
That is a false choice. A person can very much support programs and initiatives that help improve health and quality of life across the globe, while also not supporting the US getting involved in a war with Iran.
That person isn't an isolationist.
The article also quickly addresses historically failed nation building attempts thru war and then is like 'this won't be that so it's foolish to think'...but it doesn't actually exolain why it will be different.
Why will this nation build be quick?
Why will this nation build not create terrorist groups that hate us and want to retaliate?
Why will this nation build not be a money out?
Why will this nation build create legitimate stable democracy in a place which hasn't had that in my lifetime?
Bibi has an agenda and for decades he has been able to make the US fund his agenda and defend his agenda, despite the incorrect assessments and atrocities and agenda has created.
It's like he is some sexed up vixen and the US is a basement dwelling Warcraft nerd who will do anything to 17 the girl that is finally talking to him.
Bibi has people in his circle that openly cheer on war crimes and the US continues to enable this stuff.
We owe 0 to Israel and we definitely owe 0 to Iran.
Bibi is a bad person. Khamenei is a bad person.
The US doesn't have to support bad people or bad governments, just because they may be less bad than the other side.
And lastly, it's 17ing mind-blowing to see people justify Putin's invasion and make all sorts of claims about Zelenskyy, only to say with a straight face that the US needs to financially and militarily support whatever Bibi wants.
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There are no good guys in the Middle East. Did Iran hit a hospital? Yes, but guess what, Israel has hit hospitals in Gaza. Bibi is a war criminal just like Khamenei. This is not about nukes because if it were, Trump would not be so hesitant, and according to sources, taking two more weeks to negotiate.
What happens if Isreal lays down its arms unilaterally? What happens if Iran lays down its arms unilaterally? The answer to those questions tells you all you need to know.
You have posted this multiple times in the thread and it's a well understood reality.
Your example doesn't justify the US getting involved. And it doesn't justify calling the US isolationist if we don't get involved.
Your example doesn't justify or excuse what Bibi has done and it is not a blanket justification for what Bibi may do.
Stop conflating those things.
There's the pivot. 2 weeks to get the MAGA doves to support getting directly involved. Maybe we should? Maybe we shouldn't? I don't have the solutions for a region that's been at each other's throats culturally and ethnically for centuries. But the pivot is amazing to watch.
I don't think Trump wanted to get directly involved but Bibi thew him a wildcard and now he has to approach this quite differently than diplomatically. Just have to get the no-war MAGA contingent to buy in. He'll get there - they'll be discussing boots on the ground and tactical nukes before we know it after a little media massaging, fear mongering, and chest beating. Our intelligence said earlier this year that Iran wasn't pursing weapons and now they are only a couple weeks away. Hmm....
ETA: I think Trump does end up working something out diplomatically. That would be a win in my and most people's opinions. But it won't be after the doves get reprogrammed into wanting parts of Iran turned into glass.
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I kinda suspected this thread was no longer about Bunker Busters. Rage on same ole same oles...
A Mississippi State Engineer developed the MOAB. Here is an article about his passing.
Albert L. Weimorts Jr
Albert L. Weimorts Jr
I voted for Trump and always wanted Iran to go down and if all it takes is a few bombs from the United State let it rip. I do not feel, think or worry US ground troops will be involved. Iseral is doing all the hard work for us and the rest of the world. I see no harm in dropping a few big ones on a mountain in the desert.
I agree that's a well reasoned and written piece.
But it also wasn't the least little bit of a stretch for that publication to put it out.
There are no good governments. There are only ones that are less bad than others. The only reason people are focused on Israel is because of antisemitism. Even places like France and the UK that are slowly ceding their country to islamists would react with less restraint than israel if they were faced with Hamas or Hezbollah like activities on their border.
Who has justified Putin's invasion? You can always find nuts out there supporting any position, but the vast majority of people that want a brokered peace in Ukraine, even if it means ceding territory, just don't want to hundreds of billions in Ukraine and don't want boots on the ground there. That's perfectly compatible with letting Israel doing the hard work in Iran and giving aid an order of magnitude less than what has been spent on Ukraine. We send less than $4B a year to Israel in military aid and I think we're less than $20B in additional spending since the Oct. 7th terrorist attacks. If we were spending $4B a year in Ukraine and were all in less than $40B, I'm not sure you'd see many people complaining about letting them bleed Russia dry.
I’d love to see a regime change in countries like Iran because the people especially women are so repressed but the way it’s been lately you oust those in power, the ones after them are actually worse or create worse problems like ISIS.
I know it's easy to say stuff like this from my extremely safe seat in the US, but at some point the people in these countries who want a better government and a better life have to be more aggressive and ruthless than the ones who just want power.
Iran's sane citizens probably have that opportunity now thanks to Israel.