But....but...but.....Trump promised coal country jobs would return

[MountaineerWV]

Appears people are starting to see through his promises.......coal isn't coming back like he said he would make sure it does.....

http://www.nbc12.com/story/34799143/in-ky-coal-country-a-potential-embrace-of-nuclear-power


And let's put nuclear power plants in regions where lives don't matter if there happens to be a Chernobyl style event......[thumbsup]

 

[WVU82_rivals]

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...s-to-reopen-knott-county-mine-hire-60-workers

https://www.usnews.com/news/kentuck...eastern-ky-coal-mines-sold-to-georgia-company

http://www.wymt.com/content/news/Harlan-County-mine-may-reopen-414645373.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...es-are-opening-in-a-year-of-cautious-optimism

 

[EEResistable]

We should be building nuclear plants.

 

[dave]

We should be building nuclear plants.

Yep. It is by far the cleanest energy so if we care about the environment it is a no brainer.

 

[atlkvb]

Appears people are starting to see through his promises.......coal isn't coming back like he said he would make sure it does.....

http://www.nbc12.com/story/34799143/in-ky-coal-country-a-potential-embrace-of-nuclear-power


And let's put nuclear power plants in regions where lives don't matter if there happens to be a Chernobyl style event......[thumbsup]

That's a lot better than this

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/...rack-up-west-virginia-win-over-clinton-222952

 

[Airport]

Yep. It is by far the cleanest energy so if we care about the environment it is a no brainer.

Exactly where do the spent nuclear fuel rods go for disposal? Nothing is completely clean.

 

[dave]

Exactly where do the spent nuclear fuel rods go for disposal? Nothing is completely clean.

You put it deep in the ground with all the other radioctive material. Who said it was completely clean?

 

[Airport]

You put it deep in the ground with all the other radioctive material. Who said it was completely clean?

I've heard liberals say that nuclear was clean and no side products. That's why there is such an uproar over taking it through some states. Byrd got it routed thru WV so we could tax it.

 

[bamaEER]

Exactly where do the spent nuclear fuel rods go for disposal? Nothing is completely clean.

That's nothing compared to coal emissions.

 

[moe]

Yep. It is by far the cleanest energy so if we care about the environment it is a no brainer.

You speak like someone w/o a brain, how is nuclear cleaner than wind, solar or hydro? w/wind and solar being the two most enviro friendly.

 

[Airport]

That's nothing compared to coal emissions.[/QUOT

Or what comes out of liberal mouths.[winking]

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

You speak like someone w/o a brain, how is nuclear cleaner than wind, solar or hydro? w/wind and solar being the two most enviro friendly.

Well with wind, you have to build wind mills, maintain wind mills, take up vast tracts of land etc. Also, the environnuts have turned on themselves with those because they are harming some bird or bat population.

You have to be kidding bringing hydro up, right?

Solar? Still not cost effective and not possible in all locations, and can't mass produce it. It's an individual choice.

 

[moe]

Well with wind, you have to build wind mills, maintain wind mills, take up vast tracts of land etc. Also, the environnuts have turned on themselves with those because they are harming some bird or bat population.

You have to be kidding bringing hydro up, right?

Solar? Still not cost effective and not possible in all locations, and can't mass produce it. It's an individual choice.

Each has issues but I was responding to a claim by dogboy of nuclear being the cleanest yet spent fuel rods sit entombed at most (if not all) nuclear facilities with no final shipping destination. No need to even mention the Fukushima meltdown.

 

[atlkvb]

Well with wind, you have to build wind mills, maintain wind mills, take up vast tracts of land etc. Also, the environnuts have turned on themselves with those because they are harming some bird or bat population.

You have to be kidding bringing hydro up, right?

Solar? Still not cost effective and not possible in all locations, and can't mass produce it. It's an individual choice.

I suggest we collect all of the bad Leftist ideas ever proposed (and those that were tried and don't work), pile them up and torch 'em. I'd bet there'd be enough fuel in that pile to power electrical plants for the next 5000 years.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

You speak like someone w/o a brain, how is nuclear cleaner than wind, solar or hydro? w/wind and solar being the two most enviro friendly.

The "dirtiness" of wind comes in the construction of the turbines. Apparently very resource intense. But once constructed, it is very clean

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

I suggest we collect all of the bad Leftist ideas ever proposed (and those that were tried and don't work), pile them up and torch 'em. I'd bet there'd be enough fuel in that pile to power electrical plants for the next 5000 years.

Maybe as much "fuel" from the ill-advised invasion of Iraq......toll on human life, suffering, unstable Iraq, and wasted resources. Great call there by the nuts

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

The "dirtiness" of wind comes in the construction of the turbines. Apparently very resource intense. But once constructed, it is very clean

Except for all of the migratory birds and bats it kills, eye sore, land consumption, and its inability to provide enough electricity to fuel heavily populated areas, except that, right?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Maybe as much "fuel" from the ill-advised invasion of Iraq......toll on human life, suffering, unstable Iraq, and wasted resources. Great call there by the nuts

Meh, I had fun fvcking up **** in another country. Ever seen what 155mm will do to a group of hajis? It will certainly make the blood flow to the loins of a blood thirsty 20 year old.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

Except for all of the migratory birds and bats it kills, eye sore, land consumption, and its inability to provide enough electricity to fuel heavily populated areas, except that, right?

Wind farms are not cost effective. I said it was clean. I didn't say there weren't issues Dog. Nuclear is the best option in my opinion.

 

[atlkvb]

Maybe as much "fuel" from the ill-advised invasion of Iraq......toll on human life, suffering, unstable Iraq, and wasted resources. Great call there by the nuts

We won that War OM1, both times. Gulf War 1 and Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The Military victory was squandered by inept policy.

There was a consensus both nationally and internationally to go to War with Iraq. Democrats and Republicans as well as the UN supported the invasion both times as well as the surge. Lives were lost true, but many millions more lives were saved.

The danger in the area now was entirely avoidable if we had won the Peace as well as our Armed Forces had won the War.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

Meh, I had fun fvcking up **** in another country. Ever seen what 155mm will do to a group of hajis? It will certainly make the blood flow to the loins of a blood thirsty 20 year old.

I have no idea how to respond to that but I do enjoy watching the videos of our snipers hitting enemy targets from a mile away and our Apaches picking off ISIS members at night.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

We won that War OM1, both times. Gulf War 1 and Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The Military victory was squandered by inept policy.

There was a consensus both nationally and internationally to go to War with Iraq. Democrats and Republicans as well as the UN supported the invasion both times as well as the surge. Lives were lost true, but many millions more lives were saved.

The danger in the area now was entirely avoidable if we had won the Peace as well as our Armed Forces had won the War.

ok....how were millions saved by invading Iraq......wow

 

[atlkvb]

ok....how were millions saved by invading Iraq......wow

The people of Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia (the entire Arabian peninsula) were all spared from Iraqi designs to not only seize the oil fields of Kuwait, but dominate the entire Arabian Peninsula OM1!

Sadaam Hussein had designs on the entire Persian Gulf and would have killed anyone trying to stop him if we had not intervened when he invaded Kuwait. He was not satisfied to stop there either, he wanted Iraqi control of the entire region, including Iran, and the entire former Mesopotamian empire. Yes OM1, Millions of lives were saved by stopping that megalomaniac dead in his tracks.

 

[dave]

You speak like someone w/o a brain, how is nuclear cleaner than wind, solar or hydro? w/wind and solar being the two most enviro friendly.

Others who speak like someone w/o a brain.

http://listverse.com/2009/05/01/top-10-renewable-energy-sources/

http://www.spgenergy.com/blog/whats-the-cleanest-energy-of-them-all/

Wind, Solar and hydro have pretty big environmental footprints when compared to their capacity to produce power.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

The people of Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia (the entire Arabian peninsula) were all spared from Iraqi designs to not only seize the oil fields of Kuwait, but dominate the entire Arabian Peninsula OM1!

Sadaam Hussein had designs on the entire Persian Gulf and would have killed anyone trying to stop him if we had not intervened when he invaded Kuwait. He was not satisfied to stop there either, he wanted Iraqi control of the entire region, including Iran, and the entire former Mesopotamian empire. Yes OM1, Millions of lives were saved by stopping that megalomaniac dead in his tracks.

First of all, I didn't criticize our response when he took over Kuwait. But then I must call BULLS*IT His army was far too weak to handle anything outside of the invasion of Kuwait.

 

[atlkvb]

First of all, I didn't criticize our response when he took over Kuwait. But then I must call BULLS*IT His army was far too weak to handle anything outside of the invasion of Kuwait.

Agreed. But he only had authorization to kick Sadaam out of Kuwait. I thought we should have finished them off on their retreat back to Baghdad (the highway of death) but Bush 1 called off the attack dogs, and Sadaam regrouped 10 years later. That's why we had to go back in there and finish him off.

But I agree with you, that initial force structure was too light for the broader regional strategic objective.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Well with wind, you have to build wind mills, maintain wind mills, take up vast tracts of land etc. Also, the environnuts have turned on themselves with those because they are harming some bird or bat population.

You have to be kidding bringing hydro up, right?

Solar? Still not cost effective and not possible in all locations, and can't mass produce it. It's an individual choice.

We have already leveled mountain tops in WV for energy, I say let them continue to produce energy in perpetuity and put windmills and solar arrays on top of them.

Don't have an answer for the birds and bats ... they just have to get smarter I guess.

As for hydro ... the dam that creates Tygart lake can be retrofitted to hydro relatively easily, I can't imagine it's the only dam in the country that's like that. They haven't done it yet because the winter water level is too low to drive the turbines, but nobody has ever explained to me why they have to lower it so much in winter. I'm sure there's a good reason I'm not thinking of, but I don't know what it is.

 

[op2]

This...

“Coal jobs aren’t coming back, due to market forces, not due to regulation,” said James Van Nostrand, director of the Center for Energy and Sustainable Development at West Virginia University College of Law. “Natural gas is cheaper and more plentiful.”

...is part of this article.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/natural-gas-coal-future/

 

[atlkvb]

Coal jobs aren’t coming back, due to market forces, not due to regulation,

Coal jobs will come back once the artificial regulations making them cost prohibitive in the free market are removed.

 

[op2]

Coal jobs will come back once the artificial regulations making them cost prohibitive in the free market are removed.

Tell that to James Van Nostrand, director of the Center for Energy and Sustainable Development at West Virginia University College of Law, who in that quote said the opposite.

 

[atlkvb]

Tell that to James Van Nostrand, director of the Center for Energy and Sustainable Development at West Virginia University College of Law, who in that quote said the opposite.

He's entitled to his opinion Op2, but once all of the environmental rules and restrictions on burning coal are lifted, there will be a mad dash for power generating stations to use it to make cheap electricity. Coal is plentiful and cheap, the only reason it is expensive now is because of artificial environmental regulations making it more expensive to burn than it costs to burn it.

Clean coal technology offsets those environmental concerns, and the Professor while probably well meaning is not in the market where hard economic decisions are made based on costs vs profits.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

We have already leveled mountain tops in WV for energy, I say let them continue to produce energy in perpetuity and put windmills and solar arrays on top of them.

Don't have an answer for the birds and bats ... they just have to get smarter I guess.

As for hydro ... the dam that creates Tygart lake can be retrofitted to hydro relatively easily, I can't imagine it's the only dam in the country that's like that. They haven't done it yet because the winter water level is too low to drive the turbines, but nobody has ever explained to me why they have to lower it so much in winter. I'm sure there's a good reason I'm not thinking of, but I don't know what it is.

I think there are only two rivers yet to be dammed. And yes, you can retrofit. My point about hydro is the damage has already been done. Entire towns were wiped out building them. Mexico sure got the **** end of the stick with the Colorado. There is also some compelling evidence of the problems to the entire region out west stemming from damning up the Colorado.

For Christ's sakes, Ned Beatty got cornholed by a couple of hilljacks while John Voight looked on. If it hadn't been for Burt and his trusty bow, who knows what would have happened.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

He's entitled to his opinion Op2, but once all of the environmental rules and restrictions on burning coal are lifted, there will be a mad dash for power generating stations to use it to make cheap electricity. Coal is plentiful and cheap, the only reason it is expensive now is because of artificial environmental regulations making it more expensive to burn than it costs to burn it.

Clean coal technology offsets those environmental concerns, and the Professor while probably well meaning is not in the market where hard economic decisions are made based on costs vs profits.

Do we really want to go back to the days when street lights came on at noon in Pittsburgh?

 

[atlkvb]

Do we really want to go back to the days when street lights came on at noon in Pittsburgh?

I want to go back to the time when your electric bill wasn't more than 50 or 60 dollars a month.

 

[op2]

Do we really want to go back to the days when street lights came on at noon in Pittsburgh?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kevintang/...n-in-the-1940s?utm_term=.pxJlRnppo#.yxPANokk1

 

[op2]

I want to go back to the time when your electric bill wasn't more than 50 or 60 dollars a month.

Back when Coke was 15 cents a bottle and a loaf of bread was 35 cents? And minimum wage as a buck and hour and people lived comfortably on $10,000 per year?

Adjusted for inflation I doubt the cost of electricity is much different today than it was in the past.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Pretty sure you guys are missing the point here. A nuclear power plant would only employ about 200 people (largest ones only employ between 400-700). So, we have THOUSANDS of miners out of work, and are going to hire a few hundred people to work in nuclear power plants? That's considered a "fix" for the economies of coal country?

The states of Kentucky, West Virginia, and Virginia were LIED to by Trump. Facts are facts. Coal is not coming back. Some of you posted where this mine is opening back up and this one is being bought by another company.....a bunch of "this and that". Fact is that THOUSANDS are out of work, only hundreds are being called back........just another broken promise.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Back when Coke was 15 cents a bottle and a loaf of bread was 35 cents? And minimum wage as a buck and hour and people lived comfortably on $10,000 per year?

Adjusted for inflation I doubt the cost of electricity is much different today than it was in the past.

These guys don't get it. They complain about prices, and would love nothing more than to go back to the days where people were paid $3.25/hour so they could line their pockets with more profit.

 

[atlkvb]

Back when Coke was 15 cents a bottle and a loaf of bread was 35 cents? And minimum wage as a buck and hour and people lived comfortably on $10,000 per year?

Adjusted for inflation I doubt the cost of electricity is much different today than it was in the past.

You're probably right Op2, but I do remember those utility bills for my home in Lawrenceville Ga and that was only back in 1994. It was an 1800sq ft 3 BR bungalow. Not the biggest, and certainly not as big as my current home which is 5Br and over 3,000 sq ft, but my electric bills now have easily doubled to almost 200.00 a month!

So I'm sure somewhere between those two extremes is cheaper power for homeowners such as myself. I got paid 1.65 an hour when I started working back in 1973 as a Teenager, and now it's only 7.25, but electric bills have increased far more as a percentage of the minimum wage and I do think we will see cheaper electric and other energy bills the more competition is introduced into the market.

I'm an "all of the above" guy. Let's allow coal, oil, natural gas, geo thermal, solar, hydro, wind, and even nuclear to compete in the marketplace to see who can provide the cheapest, most efficient energy for we consumers?

In the end we all benefit as long as energy producers are allowed to fairly compete providing low cost efficient services for consumers profitably.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

These guys don't get it. They complain about prices, and would love nothing more than to go back to the days where people were paid $3.25/hour so they could line their pockets with more profit.

You don't do anything revolving around finance or economics for a living do you? I'm just guessing here, but I'm certain that's not the case. Guidance counselor perhaps? White House correspondent for the Urban Radio Network perhaps? Wife does all your bills I bet.

How close am I?