Buy/sell...Tigers Woods lovers

Coach34

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Does the fact that Greg Norman can lead th British Open after 54 holes, at age 53, and hasnt been playing competitively much these last few years- show you that Tiger's competition is nowhere near what Jack faced in the 60's, 70's, and 80's?

I'm buying. Just more further proof to me there arent any Palmers, Watson's, and Trevino's on the Tour the last 10 years. And the fact that Nicklaus finished 1st or 2nd in so many majors is really amazing considering his competition.
 

windcrysmary

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Nov 11, 2007
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at the top does not mean the competition today is less than it was back then.. there are more people playing golf today and based on numbers, you'd think that would equate to stiffer comp... but not neccessarily... </p>

just because a great golfer like norman has found his game again this weekend doesn't mean tiger has less comp than jack..</p>

for 20 straight years, jack never finished less than 3rd on the money list... if tiger breaks that then he will replace jack as the all time great... how does tiger's 1st 10 years compare to jack's?</p>
 

thatsbaseball

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May 29, 2007
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the first week in July at the AT&T . It`ll be interesting to see if this affects anyone`s game. Hell Tiger could have even less competition in the near future.
 

Coach34

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windcrysmary said:
at the top does not mean the competition today is less than it was back then.. there are more people playing golf today and based on numbers, you'd think that would equate to stiffer comp... but not neccessarily...</p>

just because a great golfer like norman has found his game again this weekend doesn't mean tiger has less comp than jack..</p>

for 20 straight years, jack never finished less than 3rd on the money list... if tiger breaks that then he will replace jack as the all time great... how does tiger's 1st 10 years compare to jack's?</p>

</p>Oh really? Found his game? As he leads the British at +7? Threatening to have the highest winning score in 50 years?

Those people I named plus Gary Player...were acknowledged as GREAT golfers. There are no GREAT golfers today besides Woods
 

HD6

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Those people I named plus Gary Player...were acknowledged as GREAT golfers. There are no GREAT golfers today besides Woods
 

oem

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Feb 23, 2008
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And Julius Boras once led the PGA after the 3rd round when he was 53. I'm pretty sure Nicklaus was in the field.
 

wpnetdawg

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May 1, 2006
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In golf, you compete against the field. Since there are nearly twice as many people in the U.S. now than in the 1960s, it stands to reason that as an absolute number, there are roughly twice as many people playing golf, twice as many scratch golfers, twice as many professional level golfers, and as a result, the fields are much, much deeper than in the past. Consequently, the probability of any individual golfer winning a tournament goes down significantly with the depth of the field. This is purely a mathematical argument and doesn't even include the leveling of playing fields due to technology. I also believe the numbers today are more than double because of more affluence and a greater number of golf courses.

One reason that it appeared there were more great players in the past is because less field depth meant that it was easier to win a tournament. You can also look at it like this (using extreme numbers for the sake of example), if there are 25-people in a field capable of winning a tournament, the odds of any one of them winning a tournament would be 25-1. If there are 100-people in a field capable of winning a tournament, the odds of any one of them winning a tournament would be 100-1, or in other words, any given player is four times less likely to win a tournament than with 25-winning quality players. Using these numbers, a 4-time major winner (in the 25 person example) and a 1-time major winner (in the 100 person example) would be roughly equivalent from a mathematical perspective.

For anyone who disputes the viability of these numbers, look at the depth on the Nationwide Tour, the depth on the mini-tours, and the number of former PGA Tour winners who fail to make it past the second stage of Q-School much less to the Finals.
 

jamdawg96

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Feb 27, 2008
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but the numbers don't lie. Tiger is on pace statistically to be the greatest golfer of all-time. EVERY analyst I've ever heard speak on this issue says he's better than Jack. And don't get me wrong, I have all the respect in the world for the guy, but Jack is no Tiger. How could you even know if the competition is tougher? The Mickelsons, Singhs, Loves, etc.. of today's game could have been the Players and Palmers of this generation, but Tiger dominates them in a way Jack never could.

Yes, the game has changed a little. Technology has that impact on just about every sport. But if anything, in terms of competition, the game is available now for competitors across the world to compete. Wouldn't that raise the bar a little bit? Look at what it's done to women's golf. And yet still, no one on the men's side compares to Tiger. The only time I've seen Tiger win and thought, wow, Jack could have gotten him in his prime there, was this past month's U.S. Open. That's it.

And I think the weather and course conditions have ultimately taken over at Royal Birkdale. Don't blame it on the competition. Just be glad for Old Shark that the Tiger is at home.
 

BillBraskyDOG

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You post things to make people argue with you. You find some strange fulfillment in your lonely, single life by arguing with people on a message board. Why is that?
 

oem

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i once had the privilege of attending the Byron Nelson Golf school at Las Colinas about 7-8 years ago. It was a small group and one of the neatest things about the school was that we had lunch with Mr Nelson one day. He spent the whole hour talking about golf. Of course the question was asked who he thought was the best player ever. Even then - without hesitation - he said "No doubt about it. Tiger Woods". He also spoke at length about the depth of the talent on the tour. That was good enough for me.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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so Norman found his game for a week. super. that in no way declares Tiger's competition as being any less talented than Nicklaus'.</p>

check the odds on Norman winning this past weekend, they were absurdly high. this week proved moreso that a player can randomly get hot and still put together a few great rounds even when they are past their prime, than that the rest of the field is bad compared to who played in the tournaments back 30-40 years ago.</p>

one could just as easily argue that there is a higher level of parity seeing as how for the last 10 years, some serious nonames have either won or come close to winning The Open. </p>

the conditions were absurdly difficult, and an old man who used to be the best in the world(who holds the second longest streak of being #1) was able to put together some solid rounds. congratulate the guy and move on. this isnt some statement on the competition as a whole, its 1 week out of the year.</p>
 

windcrysmary

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Nov 11, 2007
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the wind was blowing 40 mph.. norman held the #1 spot for the longest until tiger came around.. he still had that spark..he found it .. big deal...</p>

there are lots of talented golfers out there ... much more than there were during jack..</p>

I don't pull for tiger for other reasons.. I prefer winners to show class ... golf is different and a level of respect needs to be shown for the game that tiger does not show in my opinon.. there were other golfers that showed that angry fist pump that turned me off before tiger came on the scene..

but to say the level of comp today is not equal to when jack was winning champs defies mathematical logic</p>
 

Coach34

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BillBraskyDOG said:
You post things to make people argue with you. You find some strange fulfillment in your lonely, single life by arguing with people on a message board. Why is that?

</p>i'm sorry they didnt explain to you what this site is for. A sports message board is a forum that exists to discuss sports. I'm sorry you are too stu-stu-stupid to realize that. And i'm not single, try to keep up if you are going to try and insult.
 

Coach34

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there are no great golfers today like there was back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Nobody out there has the stones to play a great round when matched up with Tiger on the final day. Great golfers would do that. But nobody on tour today has the stones the be a great golfer and play a great round to make him win a tournament.
You guys can throw the numbers thing out there all you want, but that doesnt equate to greatness on the top-level guys. Heres what I mean:

1. There are more big men in basketball, but that doesnt mean all of them could play the post against Russell and Chamberlain. Those guys were great, no matter how many number of big men play today.
2. There are thousands of RB's now, but they are still not what Jim Brown, OJ Simpson, and Walter payton were.
3. There are more pitchers in baseball than ever- but that doesnt mean any of them are a Bob Gibson or a Nolan Ryan.

And just because there are alot of golfers today, doesnt mean any of them are a Palmer, Player, Watson, and Trevino...there is only one great golfer on tour today, and that is Tiger. He is phenomenal, but his competition isnt what Jack's was.
 

Woof Man Jack

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Apr 20, 2006
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I think the fact that a 53 year old can lead the British Open after 54 holes says more about the uniqueness of the tournament than it does the lack of competition. Each year, the Open is a shot makers tournament that rewards creativity and imagination. Strategy plays a larger role in The Open than in does the other three majors, which really helps even the playing field. Hell, Norman used a five iron from 120 yds...he also made some hellacious shots.

And by the way, for a variety of reasons you can't fairly compare players from different era's...no matter the sport. You just can't. But the fact that this discussion seems to pop up everytime Tiger doesn't win a tournament, shows me he really is that dominant.