Buy/Sell: Wes Carroll Would Be Starting If He Was Here
- Thread starter MSU124
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With Lee and Relf as the other two options, I don't think there is any way possible that he wouldn't be starting, especially considering what Mullen has done with Relf.
Lee just doesn't have the physical tools to be a D-I QB. The biggest knock on Carroll was his arm strength, which I would have to believe would likely improve with Mullen. Even if Mullen couldn't do that, I know that Mullen would put him in a position to be extremely accurate and take advantages of his strength.
...and can't believe so many are buying. Carroll had an absolutely terrible arm. He was not much bigger than Lee, not any faster, and no more durable (maybe even less so).
Wes was actually a pretty decent scrambler and ran the option decently well when we ran it those few games. I still think Relf would have gotten some snaps just b/c he's really an imposing guy when he runs the ball, but I think Carroll would have beaten out Lee for the starting job.
We'll never know though.
We'll never know though.
Relf has always had "upside" waiting to be tapped by a decent coach. Carroll was playing at his peak when he led us to the Liberty Bowl. The fact that he got worse the next year had much more to do with his limits than it did Croom ruining his potential.
jamdawg96 said:
Croom brought in Lee, or Lee came to us, however you want to look at it, and then all of a sudden Carroll, a scholarship QB was in this QB battle with this walk-on that essentially no one else wanted. I think Croom sent some big time mixed signals to Carroll by on one hand allowing him to represent us at media days and then on the other hand decide that he wanted to use a ridiculous and ineffective two QB system despite the fact that Carroll had done nothing to lose his job. EXCEPT, of course going against Croom with those two QB run/option plays in the Liberty Bowl, which ultimately led to our game winning drive. I think Croom wanted his QB to be subserviant to him. Carroll proved to not be that- if for only two plays. I think this may have put a little bit more pressure on Carroll to perform to stay in the game, and perhaps he forced a couple of passes that he maybe typically would not have.
Lee, on the other hand, was a walk-on, and I think Croom had a man crush on him, for lack of better words. Lee is a smart guy, loves MSU, is living out his dream by being the QB. It's a somewhat similar pattern to many of Bear Bryant's players at Alabama. We all know how Croom felt about Bryant. It's also a somewhat similar pattern to Croom's own personal story at Alabama as well. While it's not the entire reason for Croom playing Lee, I have to believe that it's much of it. There were times when Lee played horribly just like Carroll- see the Tennessee game, but yet Lee was given a much longer leash to make mistakes than Carroll.
Carroll was also the victim of poor QB coaching in Woody McCorvey. This was really brought to light this offseason with Mullen being unhappy with Lee and Relf's lack of work throwing in the offseason. I have to believe that if Mullen were the QB coach that Carroll would be doing a lot better.
We're not trying to understand how Killer the dog was killed.
Let's consider the facts...
Carroll wasn't good last year. He had more than twice as many interceptions as he did touchdowns and couldn't complete half his passes. Position battles are part of football.
Also of note...
Lee's arm is stronger. There's no doubt about that. Carroll had three inches on him, but scrambling is a draw. Neither are that great on their feet. Some will insist Carroll's three inch height advantage would've been the difference against LSU, but that's a little too hypothetical considering the game as a whole. Wes Carroll seemed like a nice guy. He came in with very little expectations and surprised a lot of people behind an opportunistic defense. He walked away from the chance to continue on and compete for a starting QB job in the SEC. Lee did not. Like him or not, that's who I'd rather have on the field.
Let's consider the facts...
Carroll wasn't good last year. He had more than twice as many interceptions as he did touchdowns and couldn't complete half his passes. Position battles are part of football.
Also of note...
Lee's arm is stronger. There's no doubt about that. Carroll had three inches on him, but scrambling is a draw. Neither are that great on their feet. Some will insist Carroll's three inch height advantage would've been the difference against LSU, but that's a little too hypothetical considering the game as a whole. Wes Carroll seemed like a nice guy. He came in with very little expectations and surprised a lot of people behind an opportunistic defense. He walked away from the chance to continue on and compete for a starting QB job in the SEC. Lee did not. Like him or not, that's who I'd rather have on the field.
than the other positions. It is the most important position. Unlike say, DE where you can rotate freely, QB is a position where the player needs to be on the field to establish a rhythm. It's the leadership position of the offense. When you rotate QB's, you are doing both and yourself a disservice. Rotating can hurt a QB's confidence as a leader, and possibly make them more ineffective.
Yes, position battles are a part of football, but I do have to wonder if this was a fair battle.
Also, Carroll may have had at least one very legit reason for transferring, if nothing else. Remember Carroll did not get to RS. He was throw out there as a true Fr., and essentially lost a year of development. By tranferring, he is forced to sit out by rule, and he gets that year back. Getting that year back could make him an even better player. Also, Carroll being from Florida, I'm sure knew about Cameron Newton and the Dan Mullen relationship. Carroll could have speculated that Newton would eventually end up at MSU, in what would be Carroll's senior year. Who knows? Maybe Wes just wanted to go home.
Yes, position battles are a part of football, but I do have to wonder if this was a fair battle.
Also, Carroll may have had at least one very legit reason for transferring, if nothing else. Remember Carroll did not get to RS. He was throw out there as a true Fr., and essentially lost a year of development. By tranferring, he is forced to sit out by rule, and he gets that year back. Getting that year back could make him an even better player. Also, Carroll being from Florida, I'm sure knew about Cameron Newton and the Dan Mullen relationship. Carroll could have speculated that Newton would eventually end up at MSU, in what would be Carroll's senior year. Who knows? Maybe Wes just wanted to go home.
Wow, it amazes me how easily you guys can Be fooled by a few wins. Carroll was terrible, and if you think he'd be starting you just must not have an eye for talent or know much about football. There was a reason Lee played over Carroll, and it wasn't any of that bs Todd was spewing.
We actually had a decent o-line in 2007 with Brown, Hamilton, Blackledge... not to mention good, experienced TEs that also boosted our offense. Our running game had a huge hand in winning the games against AU & Kentucky. Great plays on defense, the return by Pegues in the egg bowl, and a strong running game made that year what it was. All Carroll was asked to do was not lose. He did make a few critical plays when needed, but the success of that season was for the most part not based on his performance.
Better question: Would Josh Riddell be starting if he hadn't transferred? A quick google search shows he's been doing pretty good over the last two years. Had 25 TDs last year, 18 INTs, 58 comp %. And from the western oregon website:
Riddell on a roll: Senior quarterback Josh Riddell (Salem, Ore./McKay High School) has thrown a touchdown pass in every game since putting on the Western Oregon jersey. Riddell brought a streak of 11 straight games with a scoring pass into the season and has connected on a touchdown passes in all four games. During the run, he has recorded multiple touchdown performances in 12 of the 15 contests.
Better question: Would Josh Riddell be starting if he hadn't transferred? A quick google search shows he's been doing pretty good over the last two years. Had 25 TDs last year, 18 INTs, 58 comp %. And from the western oregon website:
Riddell on a roll: Senior quarterback Josh Riddell (Salem, Ore./McKay High School) has thrown a touchdown pass in every game since putting on the Western Oregon jersey. Riddell brought a streak of 11 straight games with a scoring pass into the season and has connected on a touchdown passes in all four games. During the run, he has recorded multiple touchdown performances in 12 of the 15 contests.
that Carroll would be completing more than 50% of his passes and have 2 TD's to 3 INT's at this point with Mullen coaching him? Because those are Tyson Lee's stats right now.
he was actually the best QB we had during the Croom era. And aGAIN Croom ran him off. And yes, Omarr Conner is argueably the best QB of the Croom era as well.
And another question for discussion- how would Tyson Lee as a So. have done with the 07 team? Remember Carroll did not throw an INT until the Alabama game that year. So, while he was asked to not lose, he did a good job of it. To me, the biggest contribution Carroll made was leading the team on several key drives that year.
Including:
Auburn- game winning drive
Kentucky- entire game
Alabama- coming out of the second half and leading the team to a TD to start the second half, which was critical given AJ's INT return.
Ole Miss- Directed a TD drive after the 4th down stop to get us back in the game and give us momentum, and then directed a short drive to set up the game winning FG.
Liberty Bowl- Well documented QB keeper, and then led winning TD drive.
And to be fair to Tyson Lee, I thought he played really well against a good Vandy team last year, and I thought he played well against Arkansas last year as well.
And another question for discussion- how would Tyson Lee as a So. have done with the 07 team? Remember Carroll did not throw an INT until the Alabama game that year. So, while he was asked to not lose, he did a good job of it. To me, the biggest contribution Carroll made was leading the team on several key drives that year.
Including:
Auburn- game winning drive
Kentucky- entire game
Alabama- coming out of the second half and leading the team to a TD to start the second half, which was critical given AJ's INT return.
Ole Miss- Directed a TD drive after the 4th down stop to get us back in the game and give us momentum, and then directed a short drive to set up the game winning FG.
Liberty Bowl- Well documented QB keeper, and then led winning TD drive.
And to be fair to Tyson Lee, I thought he played really well against a good Vandy team last year, and I thought he played well against Arkansas last year as well.
I don't understand how you can say that when you are comparing the two. The sentence below can't be argued.UCantStop15 said:
Tyson Lee is awful. His arm is too weak to complete anything toward the sidelines without you holding your breath. Anything past 20 yards is pretty much a no-go too.