Buy/Sell
- Thread starter trumaroon
- Start date
I think Magicwas better, I think Wilt was better, probably Bill Russell too. Kobe may be the greatest scorer of all time, but I dont necessarily think he is a definitetop 5 player. I definitely didnt think he was when he had only won championships with Shaq.
I think the level of competition today is higher. For example, when MJ dunked from the free throw line he was a hero. Now guys don't even make it to the second round of the dunk contest for that. Also, would Stockton and Malone really make it to the finals now? The Bulls played in an era with 6 or 7 new expansion teams and Jordan made the playoffs with the Bulls early in his career with some pretty terrible records. I'm pretty young so I didn't catch a lot of MJ's career but I do know that people always look back and believe things were better than they were.
yeah but people raise their skills when they see someone like Jordan and try to emulate them. Yes, stockton and malone would make it-dont think just because stockton is a little white guy he wasnt one of the best PG's ever-NBA Hall of Fame. He also went at it with Isaiah and company and Bird and Reggie Miller-some all time greats. Also, people try to start doing the free throw line dunk much sooner and its something they work on because of Jordan-part of the reason his free throw line dunk was so amazing because of how he executed it not just that he did it. He didnt have to over extend, he kind of even double-pumped. Looked like he could've done it from the 3 point line.
when Jordan 1st broke in, you had a Philly team with good players- along with Boston and Detroit teams full of Hall-of-Famers- then if you got thru the East- you had the Hall-of-Famers from the Lakers to beat. As he got older, expansion did come in and water it down a little, but there were still some good teams. Kobe has benefitted from expansion himself- but with all these stars jumping to play together on teams, this season will probably be Kobe's last chance to win a ring.
"would Stockton and Malone really make it to the finals now?"
Lebron and the nobodys from the Cavs say yes they would. Stockton and Malone would be like Nash and Duncan playing together.
"would Stockton and Malone really make it to the finals now?"
Lebron and the nobodys from the Cavs say yes they would. Stockton and Malone would be like Nash and Duncan playing together.
Ball-handling: Kobe
Shooting: Kobe
Athleticism: Jordan
Making teammates better: Jordan
Killer instinct: Push
Defense: Kobe
"It" Factor: Jordan
Shooting: Kobe
Athleticism: Jordan
Making teammates better: Jordan
Killer instinct: Push
Defense: Kobe
"It" Factor: Jordan
Jordan was in a whole new category. Might be the most dominant athlete in a team sport ever. Gretzky and Jordan are in this conversation.
Kobe is a top 5 all time player but isn't close to Jordan.
Kobe is a top 5 all time player but isn't close to Jordan.
No way is Kobe a better defender than Jordan. I will give you that Kobe is a better shooter, but Jordan was much better at drives to the basket and is a better ball handler too.
MJ was never a great 3-pt shooter (and neither is Kobe).. but from 18 feet and in, MJ was pretty much money. He didn't throw up all those 9-26 games that Kobe does (and you don't see on Sportscenter). MJ shot 50% from the field <span style="font-weight: bold;">7 TIMES.. </span>his career FG% is basically right at 50% (and would've been higher if not for the Wizards years).. do you know how remarkable that is for someone who took that volume and difficulty of shots?
When MJ was young, he was a lot like Kobe has been his whole career. MJ figured it out. Kobe really never has. He's just been fortunate enough to play with some really good big men.
When MJ was young, he was a lot like Kobe has been his whole career. MJ figured it out. Kobe really never has. He's just been fortunate enough to play with some really good big men.
<p align="left">and every talking head possible's opinion too because there are defensive statistics to back it up</p>
Kobe: 33.9%
MJ: 32.7%
He's not much better, but he's better. MJ's high percentage of shooting comes from his craftiness around the basket and ability to drive, like I said. You mentioned sportscenter, well you rarely saw MJ's highlights coming from pull up jumpers, they were from ridiculous moves driving to the basket. That said, both of them have great pull-up jump shots.
Another thing about Jordan that really stands out for me is that it's like he knew what was going to happen a lot of times. Like when he dished to Kukoc to win an NBA championship and immediately after he passed the ball he started celebrating because he knew Kukoc was going to make it. Another time he'd be driving to the basket and get fouled, and he'd just throw the
ball over his back shoulder without looking and it'd still go in. It
didn't count, but it was still amazing.
<nerd> It's like he was playing call of duty with an aimbot and a wallhack. </nerd>
MJ: 32.7%
He's not much better, but he's better. MJ's high percentage of shooting comes from his craftiness around the basket and ability to drive, like I said. You mentioned sportscenter, well you rarely saw MJ's highlights coming from pull up jumpers, they were from ridiculous moves driving to the basket. That said, both of them have great pull-up jump shots.
Another thing about Jordan that really stands out for me is that it's like he knew what was going to happen a lot of times. Like when he dished to Kukoc to win an NBA championship and immediately after he passed the ball he started celebrating because he knew Kukoc was going to make it. Another time he'd be driving to the basket and get fouled, and he'd just throw the
ball over his back shoulder without looking and it'd still go in. It
didn't count, but it was still amazing.
<nerd> It's like he was playing call of duty with an aimbot and a wallhack. </nerd>
No question that Jordan was better in his era than Kobe is in the current era.... BUT are you saying bringing Jordan in his prime to play in today's game? Or the flip side, sending Kobe in his prime back to the early to mid 90's to play? Then I say Kobe is most likely better.
I don't think you can take ANY athlete from ANY sport 20 years ago, and then put them in the middle of today's game (whatever the sport) and expect them to be even comparably as successful as they were in their past era. Players as a whole are just bigger, faster, stronger than they 20 years ago... everyone knows that.
The game has progressed too far, much of which is solely due to Jordan. Jordan revolutionized the game of which Kobe is a product. Shooting, ball-handling, and the nuances of the game have 20 years of progression... again, much of it is due to MJ.
Blast AWAY!... don't forget to mention how clutch MJ was
I don't think you can take ANY athlete from ANY sport 20 years ago, and then put them in the middle of today's game (whatever the sport) and expect them to be even comparably as successful as they were in their past era. Players as a whole are just bigger, faster, stronger than they 20 years ago... everyone knows that.
The game has progressed too far, much of which is solely due to Jordan. Jordan revolutionized the game of which Kobe is a product. Shooting, ball-handling, and the nuances of the game have 20 years of progression... again, much of it is due to MJ.
Blast AWAY!... don't forget to mention how clutch MJ was
http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersPTSQuery.html?topic=4&stat=1
Also, right now Kobe has played only 6 more games than Jordan did, yet Jordan has 5000 more points.
And MJ posted a .238, .189, and .291 3P% his last three years. clearly, in his prime he was a better 3 shooter than Kobe.
MJ also outrebounded Kobe 6.2 to 5.3, and out assisted him 5.3 to 4.7. and less TO too.</p>
Also, right now Kobe has played only 6 more games than Jordan did, yet Jordan has 5000 more points.
And MJ posted a .238, .189, and .291 3P% his last three years. clearly, in his prime he was a better 3 shooter than Kobe.
MJ also outrebounded Kobe 6.2 to 5.3, and out assisted him 5.3 to 4.7. and less TO too.</p>
I simply said he's a better outside shooter. The rest of the traits listed at the top of the thread I replied to I believe are in favor of Jordan.
Also, the argument isn't who was better in their prime, even though I think MJ was better still. He still played those last 3 years and you have to count them.
Also, the argument isn't who was better in their prime, even though I think MJ was better still. He still played those last 3 years and you have to count them.
His first year of college ball he averaged 13.5 ppg, 1.8 apg, 1.2 spg in 31.7min/game
Just for ***** and giggles, Lebron obviously skipped college, but his first year against NBA players he had 20.9ppg, 5.9 apg, 1.6 spg in 39.5 min/game.
Obviously College ball and NBA ball are extremely different. NBA is much faster and longer games leading to more stats per game (including TOs, which Lebron had like 3.5 per game to MJ's 1.7 in college). But Jordan's freshman year stats at UNC look pretty pedestrian and a definitely don't think he could have cut it in the NBA at that point.
Tons of variables in this comparison, but with the little I know about MJ's college years, I don't think he was capable of being an upper tier guard in the NBA like Lebron was at the same age.
Just for ***** and giggles, Lebron obviously skipped college, but his first year against NBA players he had 20.9ppg, 5.9 apg, 1.6 spg in 39.5 min/game.
Obviously College ball and NBA ball are extremely different. NBA is much faster and longer games leading to more stats per game (including TOs, which Lebron had like 3.5 per game to MJ's 1.7 in college). But Jordan's freshman year stats at UNC look pretty pedestrian and a definitely don't think he could have cut it in the NBA at that point.
Tons of variables in this comparison, but with the little I know about MJ's college years, I don't think he was capable of being an upper tier guard in the NBA like Lebron was at the same age.
He gets frustrated too easily, which only makes him try that much harder and he'd shoot you out of a lot of games (although he would also win you a few). The physical play they allowed back then would rattle him. On the other hand, Jordan (from about 88-93) could average 40 ppg in today's league. They don't let you put hands on guys anymore and you can't bump cutters and MJ in his prime was a superior athlete to anybody in the league now not named LeBron or Dwight Howard.
The Lakers were a good story in 91 bc nobody expected it but the 92 Portland squad was loaded.. Terry Porter, Clyde Drexler, Jerome Kersey, Buck Williams, and Kevin Duckworth with Danny Ainge and Cliff Robinson coming off the bench. The 93 Suns had Barkley, Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle.. along with Richard Dumas who was an up and coming guy at that time. Nobody from the Kings or Wolves (except KG) could carry those guys jocks. Not to mention the Bulls had to beat the Knicks and Pacers (with more HOF players) just to get to the Finals.
Nobody from those Kings or Wolves teams (except KG) will even sniff the HOF. The Spurs are the only team from that bunch that could win 2 games off the Bulls during that run.
Nobody from those Kings or Wolves teams (except KG) will even sniff the HOF. The Spurs are the only team from that bunch that could win 2 games off the Bulls during that run.
I forgot that you measure how good a team was by how many Hall of Famers that played for them, not by how many games they won. The Kings perennially advanced late in the playoffs. The Spurs have won 4 championships in the last 12 years.
I guess the 2004 Lakers were the best team in NBA history by your standards, because they had the most future hall of famers?
ETA from 2002-2005 the Kings, Spurs, Mavs, Lakers and Wolves all won 50+ games, and all but Minnesota won 50+ in 2001. They all had multiple seasons winning 60+. And it was always those teams in the WCF.
I guess the 2004 Lakers were the best team in NBA history by your standards, because they had the most future hall of famers?
ETA from 2002-2005 the Kings, Spurs, Mavs, Lakers and Wolves all won 50+ games, and all but Minnesota won 50+ in 2001. They all had multiple seasons winning 60+. And it was always those teams in the WCF.
At one time I had calculated the numbers but Jordan shot a better percentage than Kobe because he shot less threes per game than Kobe does. When you factor in the the point differential Kobe is actually more efficient scoring. For example, if you shoot six two pointers at 50% you could also shoot six 3 pointers at 33% and be just as efficient. Also, Kobe's numbers are not necessarily comparable to Jordan's because like people have said Jordan went to college and Kobe jumped directly to the NBA and his body still had to mature. I'm actually surprised at the amount of Bryant defenders. Most people crown Jordan best ever without looking at the whole picture.
Is this real life? What the hell kind of question is this?
The best part of Kobe's game is scoring. Period. Three point shooting to be precise. However Jordan was a better scorer overall.
MJ has 10 scoring titles and is the only player besides Wilt to score more than 3000 points in a season.
Jordan obviously has more rebounds and assists, but also has almost 1000 more steals and 300 more blocks. Do I even have to mention Jordan has 5000 more points than Kobe?
Kobe has already played in more games than Jordan.
FG % - Jordan .497 ; Kobe .455
Kobe has shot a lot more 3pointers than Jordan and has a slightly better average. Which speaks highly of Kobe's long range shot.
Jordan missed most of the 85-86 season; all of the 93-94 season; and most of the 94-95 season - all of which would have added to his already staggering point totals by a total of about 6500 points. Not to mention the additions to his other stats.
It's not even close. Jordan.
The best part of Kobe's game is scoring. Period. Three point shooting to be precise. However Jordan was a better scorer overall.
MJ has 10 scoring titles and is the only player besides Wilt to score more than 3000 points in a season.
Jordan obviously has more rebounds and assists, but also has almost 1000 more steals and 300 more blocks. Do I even have to mention Jordan has 5000 more points than Kobe?
Kobe has already played in more games than Jordan.
FG % - Jordan .497 ; Kobe .455
Kobe has shot a lot more 3pointers than Jordan and has a slightly better average. Which speaks highly of Kobe's long range shot.
Jordan missed most of the 85-86 season; all of the 93-94 season; and most of the 94-95 season - all of which would have added to his already staggering point totals by a total of about 6500 points. Not to mention the additions to his other stats.
It's not even close. Jordan.
Part of that post was on 3P%, so i put it in reply to yours. The rest were statements in general response to the rest of the thread. My bad for shortcutting.
"Also, the argument isn't who was better in their prime, even though I think MJ was better still. He still played those last 3 years and you have to count them."
???
So, instead of comparing a 50 year old MJ to current Kobe, we're going to compare a 40 year old MJ to current Kobe? How does that make any sense? If Kobe plays to that point, then we count them when comparing the two. But he hasn't yet. So for a fair comparison, we have to take those years out, right?</p>
"Also, the argument isn't who was better in their prime, even though I think MJ was better still. He still played those last 3 years and you have to count them."
???
So, instead of comparing a 50 year old MJ to current Kobe, we're going to compare a 40 year old MJ to current Kobe? How does that make any sense? If Kobe plays to that point, then we count them when comparing the two. But he hasn't yet. So for a fair comparison, we have to take those years out, right?</p>
Yes I was bored and I have nothing better to do.
Better stats highlighted in red.
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<span style="font-weight: bold;">JORDAN</span>
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</td></tr></tbody></table> G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
<table class="gSGTableStatsGrid" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="677"><tbody><tr style="font-weight: bold;"><td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid">Career
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<td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">1072</td><td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">1039</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
38.3</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
.497</td><td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
.327</td><td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
.835</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
1.6</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
4.7</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
6.2</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
5.3</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
2.35</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
.80</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
2.73</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
2.60</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
30.1</td></tr>
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Playoff
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<td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">179</td><td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">179</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
41.8</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
.487</td><td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
.332</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
.828</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
1.7</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
4.7</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
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5.7</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
2.10</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
.88</td><td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
3.05</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
3.00</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
33.4
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<span style="font-weight: bold;">BRYANT</span>
<table style="width: 778px; height: 24px;" class="playerStatTable careerAvg" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="title"><td class="year">Year</td><td class="team">Team</td><td>G
</td><td>GS
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</td><td>3P%
</td><td>FT%</td><td>OFF</td><td>DEF</td><td>RPG</td><td>APG</td><td>SPG</td><td>BPG</td><td>TO</td><td>PF</td><td>PPG
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<table style="width: 801px; height: 24px;" class="playerStatTable careerAvg" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="career"><td class="col_1">Career</td><td class="col_2">--</td><td>1,078</td><td>930</td><td>36.5</td><td>0.455</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">0.339</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">0.837</td><td>1.2
</td><td>4.1
</td><td>5.3
</td><td>4.7</td><td>1.5</td><td>0.5</td><td>2.93
</td><td>2.63
</td><td>25.3
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<table style="width: 801px; height: 24px;" class="playerStatTable careerAvg" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="career"><td class="col_1">Career</td><td class="col_2">--</td><td>198</td><td>178</td><td>39.4</td><td>0.448</td><td style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">0.337</td><td>0.815
</td><td>1.0
</td><td>4.1
</td><td>5.2
</td><td>4.8</td><td>1.4</td><td>0.7</td><td style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">2.94</td><td>3.05</td><td>25.5</td></tr></tbody></table>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Jordan</span> <span style="font-weight: bold;"> Kobe</span>
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">5</span> NBA MVPs 1
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">6</span> NBA FINALS MVPS 2
10 Scoring Titles 2
1 Defensive Player of the Year 0
10 ALL NBA First Team 8
2nd All Time in Steals 23rd
And the list goes on I just hit the high notes.
I agree that Kobe will probably go down as one of the top 5 best of all
time, but no one will ever be able to dominate on the level that Jordan
did. I am just old enough to have watched enough of Jordan in his prime
to understand how much he embarrassed the rest of the league. I truly
feel bad for those younger than me who never got to see it with their
own eyes so they could really see the difference, but for those people
all they have to do to get some understanding is quickly glance over the
career stats.
(Edited to add that the numbers look all out of line when I post cause I suck at computers but you get the point.)
Better stats highlighted in red.
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</td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td></tr></tbody></table> G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
<table class="gSGTableStatsGrid" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="677"><tbody><tr style="font-weight: bold;"><td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid">Career
</td>
<td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid">
</td>
<td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">1072</td><td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">1039</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
38.3</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
.497</td><td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
.327</td><td style="font-weight: normal;" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
.835</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
1.6</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
4.7</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
6.2</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
5.3</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
2.35</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
.80</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
2.73</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
2.60</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowOddStatsGrid" align="right">
30.1</td></tr>
<tr>
<td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid">
Playoff
</td>
<td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid">
</td>
<td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">179</td><td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">179</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
41.8</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
.487</td><td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
.332</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
.828</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
1.7</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
4.7</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right" width="45">
6.4</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
5.7</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
2.10</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
.88</td><td class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
3.05</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
3.00</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="gSGRowEvenStatsGrid" align="right">
33.4
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">BRYANT</span>
<table style="width: 778px; height: 24px;" class="playerStatTable careerAvg" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="title"><td class="year">Year</td><td class="team">Team</td><td>G
</td><td>GS
</td><td>MP
</td><td>FG%
</td><td>3P%
</td><td>FT%</td><td>OFF</td><td>DEF</td><td>RPG</td><td>APG</td><td>SPG</td><td>BPG</td><td>TO</td><td>PF</td><td>PPG
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table style="width: 801px; height: 24px;" class="playerStatTable careerAvg" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="career"><td class="col_1">Career</td><td class="col_2">--</td><td>1,078</td><td>930</td><td>36.5</td><td>0.455</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">0.339</td><td style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">0.837</td><td>1.2
</td><td>4.1
</td><td>5.3
</td><td>4.7</td><td>1.5</td><td>0.5</td><td>2.93
</td><td>2.63
</td><td>25.3
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table style="width: 801px; height: 24px;" class="playerStatTable careerAvg" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="career"><td class="col_1">Career</td><td class="col_2">--</td><td>198</td><td>178</td><td>39.4</td><td>0.448</td><td style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">0.337</td><td>0.815
</td><td>1.0
</td><td>4.1
</td><td>5.2
</td><td>4.8</td><td>1.4</td><td>0.7</td><td style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">2.94</td><td>3.05</td><td>25.5</td></tr></tbody></table>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Jordan</span> <span style="font-weight: bold;"> Kobe</span>
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">5</span> NBA MVPs 1
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">6</span> NBA FINALS MVPS 2
10 Scoring Titles 2
1 Defensive Player of the Year 0
10 ALL NBA First Team 8
2nd All Time in Steals 23rd
And the list goes on I just hit the high notes.
I agree that Kobe will probably go down as one of the top 5 best of all
time, but no one will ever be able to dominate on the level that Jordan
did. I am just old enough to have watched enough of Jordan in his prime
to understand how much he embarrassed the rest of the league. I truly
feel bad for those younger than me who never got to see it with their
own eyes so they could really see the difference, but for those people
all they have to do to get some understanding is quickly glance over the
career stats.
(Edited to add that the numbers look all out of line when I post cause I suck at computers but you get the point.)
As pointed out above, you are talking about 2 different games. Jordan's early years the defense could mug you and not get called for it, Kobe's era is a lot more offensive friendly.
Jordan of course, like lots of guys my age, is my favorite. But I also think Kobe is great and shouldn't be discounted just because he is being compared to the greatest of all time.
Some of you that don't think Jordan could play in today's game need to go to YouTube and watch some video.</p>
Jordan of course, like lots of guys my age, is my favorite. But I also think Kobe is great and shouldn't be discounted just because he is being compared to the greatest of all time.
Some of you that don't think Jordan could play in today's game need to go to YouTube and watch some video.</p>
We're on the same side of the argument (minus the outside shooting part of course)
If we throw out Jordan's last 3 years does that mean we throw out Kobe's first 3-4 as well since he didn't play college ball while MJ did?
If we throw out Jordan's last 3 years does that mean we throw out Kobe's first 3-4 as well since he didn't play college ball while MJ did?
Pros: that's methodologically sound, in theory.
Cons: from glancing at his stats, there's no noticable improvement from his 1st few years to later on. In fact, his 2nd best 3P% year was his first.His worst year was his 6th, right before his best.
Kobe's percentage really went up his 7th year, which is also the year he really began shooting more 3s. From '02 to'10 he only shot under 300 3s once, and he was hurt that year and on pace.We can pretty definitively say Kobe is a 33% 3 shooter, his % hasn't strayed more than 3% from there since '03.
MJ, on the other hand, was a pretty poor 3 shooter early in his career, but he also didn't shoot that many back then.
the only years MJ shot nearly as many 3s as Kobe were '95-'97. (Even then he never shot 300 3s. 260 and 297.) In those years he was ~ a 40% shooter. He was a 24% the next year, but shot half as many 3s, then retired again, and was a poor shooter when he came back with the Wiz. He also has high attempt and high % years in '89-90 and '92-93. Statistically, it's weird, which probably means he shot better (meaning, got better looks) with the right people around him, and was smart enough to know the difference.
I would say that in a 'in their prime' comparison, MJ has the slight edge, but by any kind of 'career' comparison Kobe has the clear edge.</p>
Cons: from glancing at his stats, there's no noticable improvement from his 1st few years to later on. In fact, his 2nd best 3P% year was his first.His worst year was his 6th, right before his best.
Kobe's percentage really went up his 7th year, which is also the year he really began shooting more 3s. From '02 to'10 he only shot under 300 3s once, and he was hurt that year and on pace.We can pretty definitively say Kobe is a 33% 3 shooter, his % hasn't strayed more than 3% from there since '03.
MJ, on the other hand, was a pretty poor 3 shooter early in his career, but he also didn't shoot that many back then.
the only years MJ shot nearly as many 3s as Kobe were '95-'97. (Even then he never shot 300 3s. 260 and 297.) In those years he was ~ a 40% shooter. He was a 24% the next year, but shot half as many 3s, then retired again, and was a poor shooter when he came back with the Wiz. He also has high attempt and high % years in '89-90 and '92-93. Statistically, it's weird, which probably means he shot better (meaning, got better looks) with the right people around him, and was smart enough to know the difference.
I would say that in a 'in their prime' comparison, MJ has the slight edge, but by any kind of 'career' comparison Kobe has the clear edge.</p>
<h1 style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan: There's Still No Debate, Jordan Is King</span></h1><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">By</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Steven Resnick</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">(Senior Writer) on June 18, 2010</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span><span lang="EN">14,326</span></span><span lang="EN">reads</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span><span lang="EN">539</span></span><span lang="EN">comments</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span><span lang="EN">13</span></span><span lang="EN">likes</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">
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</span><span lang="EN"></span>[/list]<p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Kobe Bryanthas just won another championship ring—his fifth. There will be some fans who will start to bring up the debate that Kobe is somehow on par with Michael Jordan.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">The thing is, Bryant is not. Bryant is a great player who has been in the league 14 years and will be enshrined into the Hall of Fame when he does retire. Yet, Bryant will never be at the level of Jordan.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Looking at Jordan's accolades over his 15 year career, Bryant doesn't come close to measuring up. Jordan won the Rookie of the Year Award, a Defensive Player of the Year Award, five MVP Awards, and six Finals MVP Awards.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">He also had 10 All-NBA First Team Selections, nine First Team All-Defensive selections, and one Second Team All-NBA selection.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Jordan's stats? He ranks first all-time in points per game with an average of 30.1, second all-time in steals with 2,514, third all-time in points with 32,292 points, third all-time in steals per game with 2.3, third all-time in field goal attempts, fourth all-time in field goals, fourth all-time in free throws, and ninth all-time in free throws attempted.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">What about Bryant? What are his numbers like so far in his career, considering he's only played one year less than Jordan?</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Bryant's accolades look like this: One MVP and two Finals MVPs.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">He is an eight time All-NBA First Team selection, eight time All-NBA Defensive First Team, two time All-NBA Defensive Second Team, two time All-NBA Second Team, and two time All-NBA third team member.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">For Bryant to even catch Jordan, he'd need a Rookie of the Year award (which of course he can't do), four more MVP awards, a Defensive Player of the Year award, and four more Final MVP Awards.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">So in order for Bryant to match Jordan in terms of Finals MVP Award, he'd need to have nine rings.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">In terms of ranking within the top 10 all-time of any category, the only one Bryant is a part of is free throws, where he's currently ranked 10th all-time.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Jordan scored 32,292 points in 15 years. Kobe? He has scored 25,790 points in 14 years. So, it likely won't be until Bryant's in his 17th year in the league before he passes Jordan for total points.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Even if you look at each player's best seasons, Jordan wins.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">In the 1988-1989 season, Jordan averaged 32.5 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists, and 2.9 steals, while shooting 53.8 percent from the field, 27.6 percent from three, and 85 percent from the free throw line.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">During Kobe's best year in the league he averaged 31.6 points, 5.7 rebounds, 5.4 assists, and 1.4 steals on 46.3 percent from the field, 34.4 percent from three, and 86.8 percent from the free throw line.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">In all 15 seasons, Jordan averaged over 20 points per game. Kobe has only done that in 12 out of 14 seasons.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Need more stats? OK.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Jordan averaged 30 points or more eight times, while Bryant has accomplished that feat three times. Jordan averaged over six rebounds a game nine times, while Bryant has done that three times. Jordan averaged over five assists nine times, and Bryant has averaged over five assists eight times, and Jordan averaged over two steals per game 10 times while Bryant only has done that once.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">As for playoff numbers, Jordan is number one all-time in points per game in the playoffs at 33.4, and leads a slew of playoff categories. He is also first all-time in points, first all-time in field goals attempted, first all-time in free throws, second all-time in free throw attempts, second all-time in field goals, second all-time in steals, sixth all-time in steals per game, and seventh all-time in assists.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">Bryant currently ranks third all-time in field goal attempts, fourth all-time in points, fourth all-time in field goals, fourth all-time in free throws, fifth all-time in free throws attempted, and eighth all-time in steals.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">In terms of averages in the playoffs, Jordan averaged over 30 points 12 times and Bryant has averaged over 30 in the playoffs four times. Jordan averaged over six rebounds 10 times while Bryant has averaged over six four times, and Jordan averaged over five assists eight times while Bryant averaged over five assists seven times.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">The numbers make it clear—Bryant has never come close to being better than Jordan.</span></p><p style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span lang="EN">The all-time ranks and the awards do not lie. Jordan has always been the better of the two, and it's not even close.</span></p>