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By the numbers.......

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thekimmer

All-Conference
Aug 30, 2012
8,123
2,133
113
Two years prior to Stans:

12-18 (.400) 6-10 (.375)
15-15 (.500) 4-12 (.250)

Stans 1st two seasons
20-13 (.606) 8-8 (.500)
14-16 (.467) 5-11 (.313)


Two years prior to Ray
17-14 (.549) 9-7 (.563)
21-12 (.636) 8-8 (.500)

Ray 1st two seasons
10-22 (.312) 4-14 (.222)
13-15 (.464) 3-12(.200) to date.

Conclude what you will.
 
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JacksonDevilDog

JacksonDevilDog

Freshman
Jan 13, 2008
3,390
61
48
And we will not compete for anything substantial. If we want to compete for an SEC title or the NCAA's we will have to recruit better. If we want to play nice in our sandbox, we will make the NIT every couple of years and cycle through coaches every 5 or so.
 
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121Josey

Redshirt
Oct 30, 2012
7,503
0
0
fishwater99 said:
You have to play the AAU $ game for good recruits and currently we are not doing that anymore.
Click to expand...

It may prove cheaper to hire someone who, first of all, can instruct rebounding and free-throw shooting. Maybe then MSU basketball would be welcomed in AAU circles.
 
Seinfeld

Seinfeld

All-American
Nov 30, 2006
11,166
7,003
113
And playing the AAU game is going to come with the occasional head case or prima donna which our fanbase so adamantly claimed they were sick of having to deal with... Now we're sick of not having any talent. At some point, people are going to have to make up their minds to have one or the other because we're never going to be able to hand pick the cream of the crop every year like Duke and Kansas. Stans was able to get the talent that had risks associated with them because other programs didn't want to deal with those risks, but sometimes you're going to win on those gambles and sometimes you're going to lose
 
B

BiscuitEater

Redshirt
Aug 29, 2009
4,178
0
36
Mississippi State fans can ...

JacksonDevilDog said:
Currently, our basketball recruiting is lazy. Conclude what you will.
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make 'dumster fire' comments about Stans all they want but when he started recruiting a player, NOBODY out hussled him. Josh Gray will probably end up as the #1 or 2 JC player this year, is averaging over 33 points a game, more rebounds than Sword and 5.9 Assists per game ... and is headed to LSU.

Have you heard a player say this about our current staff?

************

"I committed today," said Josh Gray. "I committed to (head) Coach (Rick) Stansbury and (assistant) Coach (Marcus) Grant at the same time. (Coach Stansbury) just gave me a big hug."

He explained the things that impressed him about Mississippi State.

"I loved the coaching staff, I loved the situation they have for me, I loved the conference the team is in," said the 6-1, 174-pounder. "I just felt like Mississippi State really wanted me. I know a lot of schools wanted me but Mississippi State needs me. And I have always wanted to be at a place that needed me. And I loved the coaching staff, they were more than just coaches to me. I just liked everything about them."

He explained how he knew they wanted him so badly.

"They were at every one of my games," said Gray. "Everywhere I was in July, they were right there. There were at least two Mississippi State coaches at every one of my games. Coach Stansbury recruited me. And all the assistant coaches on the staff were recruiting me, Coach Grant, all of them, every last one of them.
"Even after they had seen me in (Las) Vegas, my AAU team head coach put together a tournament, a last thing type tournament, and the head coach of Mississippi State was there, them and Texas Tech. But Texas Tech wasn't at all my games in Vegas. Mississippi State was the first one to be there and the last one to leave. They showed me that they wanted me and needed me."
 
E

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
Ah -- the guy that got busted on a gun charge in high school -- signed with State, asked out of his letter when his checks were no longer coming, signed with Texas Tech, played one year(shot 18.8% from 3), transferred out to Odessa JR College where he has put up tremendous stats, committed to Florida St, decommitted, and ultimately signed with LSU. Definitely fits the late Stansbury recruiting mold...
 
JacksonDevilDog

JacksonDevilDog

Freshman
Jan 13, 2008
3,390
61
48
I think the point he was making was the effort that the ENTIRE coaching staff was making towards signing a recruit. You can fault Stans for a lot of things, but he recruited his *** off and was visible at most every one of his recruits games. I know that we are only doing that for one guy right now and that is Malik Newman.
 
F

fishwater99

Freshman
Jun 4, 2007
14,073
54
48
121Josey said:
It may prove cheaper to hire someone who, first of all, can instruct rebounding and free-throw shooting. Maybe then MSU basketball would be welcomed in AAU circles.
Click to expand...

We would be welcomed in the AAU circles when we start paying the AAU coaches again. Follow the money..
It has nothing to do with rebounding, free throws and basketball fundamentals.
 
1

121Josey

Redshirt
Oct 30, 2012
7,503
0
0
fishwater99 said:
We would be welcomed in the AAU circles when we start paying the AAU coaches again. Follow the money..
It has nothing to do with rebounding, free throws and basketball fundamentals.
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Pay whoever you want off-court, but you aren't signing any reputable talent when your on-court product stinks.
 
B

BiscuitEater

Redshirt
Aug 29, 2009
4,178
0
36
Yea, you're right ...

engie said:
Definitely fits the late Stansbury recruiting mold...
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Ray really doesn't need anyone that can average 33.4 and can actually shoot a basketball 'cause he teaches 'effort.' And, the point about Gray was the all out effort that the State Coaching staff put into recruiting him. Most fans think we actually need someone that can shoot. Please just look at what Gray said compared to our current recruit target that we are in a battle with New Hampshire over ...

Here is how is our current staff is recruiting '14 SG Troutman, from Taylor County (Ga.) High School. Only ONE State basketball coach has even seen him play and that was for TWO games.

"Coach Ray said he wanted to evaluate all of my film and then come see me work out," added Troutman. "Coach Brooks has been to one of my good games and also to one of my bad games. So Coach Ray wants to see more of me on film. </SPAN></SPAN>"Coach Brooks is already on board for me and is talking good to Coach Ray about me. And Coach Ray said he would come to see me in a couple of weeks once their season is over and I look forward to that." </SPAN></SPAN>
 
Philly Dawg

Philly Dawg

All-American
Oct 6, 2012
12,355
6,913
113
Apparently, our administration did not realize that when they made the lack of involvement in recruiting the AAU circuit one of their criteria for hiring a new coach, what they essentially did was eliminate anyone with any experience actually recruiting basketball players to a division one program of any size.
 
F

Faustdog

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
3,985
2,249
113
BiscuitEater said:
Ray really doesn't need anyone that can average 33.4 and can actually shoot a basketball 'cause he teaches 'effort.' And, the point about Gray was the all out effort that the State Coaching staff put into recruiting him. Most fans think we actually need someone that can shoot. Please just look at what Gray said compared to our current recruit target that we are in a battle with New Hampshire over ...

Here is how is our current staff is recruiting '14 SG Troutman, from Taylor County (Ga.) High School. Only ONE State basketball coach has even seen him play and that was for TWO games.

"Coach Ray said he wanted to evaluate all of my film and then come see me work out," added Troutman. "Coach Brooks has been to one of my good games and also to one of my bad games. So Coach Ray wants to see more of me on film. "Coach Brooks is already on board for me and is talking good to Coach Ray about me. And Coach Ray said he would come to see me in a couple of weeks once their season is over and I look forward to that."
Click to expand...

Ouch.
 
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Faustdog

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
3,985
2,249
113
And let me add a few more things on the Josh Gray situation. He dropped us only because Ray dropped him, and it wasn't about any "checks coming in." By all accounts he's a good kid who made a mistake in high school.

But hell no, we wouldn't want a guy who is still wanted by programs like LSU and Florida State. We'll take that guy over there with a lone offer from Troy.
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
Faustdog said:
And let me add a few more things on the Josh Gray situation. He dropped us only because Ray dropped him, and it wasn't about any "checks coming in." By all accounts he's a good kid who made a mistake in high school.

But hell no, we wouldn't want a guy who is still wanted by programs like LSU and Florida State. We'll take that guy over there with a lone offer from Troy.
Click to expand...

Yep -- great kid. Committed to his 5th different school now. Obviously, he was coming to State to work hard and stick with us through the hard times**

Ray dropped him? That's f'n hilarious.
 
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Faustdog

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
3,985
2,249
113
Yep, Ray dropped him. I wish I were so easily amused that I found that "f'ing hilarious." Not to worry though. Why would we take guys that LSU and Florida State want when we can cherry pick guys from Georgia State and Troy?
 
mstateglfr

mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
16,027
5,854
113
Josh Gray? Dont reference Josh Gray as any sort of good example.
At TT, he was the definition of making those around him worse while he 'shines'.

Maybe he has matured and developed, but he could have very easily killed last year's team more than it already was.
 
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FlotownDawg

All-American
Aug 30, 2012
6,853
7,190
113
You obviously don't care about our basketball program getting any better so why are you commenting on a basketball thread?
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
Faustdog said:
Yep, Ray dropped him. I wish I were so easily amused that I found that "f'ing hilarious." Not to worry though. Why would we take guys that LSU and Florida State want when we can cherry pick guys from Georgia State and Troy?
Click to expand...

Don't EVER let facts get in the way of a good agenda...

It didn’t last. Gray asked for and received a scholarship release shortly after former coach Rick Stansbury retired on March 15.
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http://lubbockonline.com/filed-onli...-not-shying-away-leadership-role#.Uw-VGPldWbM

Need me to find you another couple hundred links? Go ahead and show me ONE that says he was dropped by MSU...If you can...
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
FlotownDawg said:
You obviously don't care about our basketball program getting any better so why are you commenting on a basketball thread?
Click to expand...
Going to need a link to where I've ever said, or implied, that I don't care about the basketball program getting any better. Just another shortsighted fan making up ********...

But I OBVIOUSLY don't care about MSU getting better because I don't want to see us sign guys I perceive as obvious me-first cancers. I saw a BUNCH of them -- all highly ranked -- flame out under the last regime. I appreciate a new approach...
 
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FlotownDawg

All-American
Aug 30, 2012
6,853
7,190
113
The approach that has us losing 10 games in a row and counting? Gotta have talent to win. Stans could get that talent. Ray at least so far can't.
 
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Faustdog

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
3,985
2,249
113
Nothing in that article contradicts anything I said.

Speaking of agenda's, I'm glad you're off the "fire Mullen" bandwagon. That really wasn't a good way to control the message.
 
O

olblue.sixpack

Redshirt
Aug 14, 2012
4,615
0
0
Faustdog said:
Yep, Ray dropped him. I wish I were so easily amused that I found that "f'ing hilarious." Not to worry though. Why would we take guys that LSU and Florida State want when we can cherry pick guys from Georgia State and Troy?
Click to expand...

Engie is Peaches Lite. No matter how little you know about something, if you talk enough, somebody will believe you. Which adds fuel to the fire.
 
HD6

HD6

Sophomore
Apr 8, 2003
10,019
108
63
An agenda would be claiming to want what's best for MSU while constantly bringing up NCAA violations in public places.
 
B

BiscuitEater

Redshirt
Aug 29, 2009
4,178
0
36
I take it ...

engie said:
I saw a BUNCH of them -- all highly ranked -- flame out under the last regime. I appreciate a new approach...
Click to expand...

then you are a big fan of the "wait until the last minute" to start recruiting a 2014 senior, non-rated SG from Georgia with offers from NH and Youngstown State. And, then you send an assistant to watch two of his games.

Is it any wonder that in Ray's SECOND class, he ended up with three signees, including ...

- A 216 pound, 6-11 Center, generously labled a 'project' that CAN'T PLAY this year because he ends up NCAA Doghouse
- A 205 pound, 6-8 wing, JC player, who can't pass ONE math class that is the difference in him playing this year or not
- A midget PG, that is the ONLY one of the three that is even playing

It might be good to actually 'try' to get some players that can actually play.
 
Uncle Ruckus

Uncle Ruckus

All-American
Apr 1, 2011
14,384
5,276
113
And if Daniels and Ndoye(sp?) didn't have grade issues, Lewis didn't screw up off the court, sword ask to redshirt and Applewhite randomly transfer we'd be markedly better and we wouldn't be having this thread. That's 5 big contributors that we expected to be playing this season. That will derail any teams season
 
R

RedSoxDawg

Junior
Aug 23, 2012
943
246
43
FlotownDawg said:
The approach that has us losing 10 games in a row and counting? Gotta have talent to win. Stans could get that talent. Ray at least so far can't.
Click to expand...

Has anyone else even considered that Ray's recruiting might be hindered somewhat by the condition of the program? Stansbury did some good things at State, but he left the program in less than desirable shape. Ray will have to recruit better to survive, no doubt, but some of his recruiting struggles have been because the program is so far down right now. How attractive do you think our program looks to a High School kid that thinks he is the next Jordan?
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
FlotownDawg said:
The approach that has us losing 10 games in a row and counting? Gotta have talent to win. Stans could get that talent. Ray at least so far can't.
Click to expand...
And Cohen lost to JSU in year 2 and went 6-24 in the SEC. Year 3 will tell the story.
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
Faustdog said:
Nothing in that article contradicts anything I said.

Speaking of agenda's, I'm glad you're off the "fire Mullen" bandwagon. That really wasn't a good way to control the message.
Click to expand...

I'm on the fence about Mullen. Exactly like I said I would be if he managed to get to bowl eligibility with his best win in the past 44 games.

And yes, EVERYTHING in that article contradicts what you said. "Ray cut him" /=/ "Gray asked for and received his release" to open is recruitment. Again -- feel free to show me ONE QUOTE saying Ray cut him. Should be easy to find if it is, as you pretend, factual....
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
HD6 said:
An agenda would be claiming to want what's best for MSU while constantly bringing up NCAA violations in public places.
Click to expand...

Ah yes --- college basketball teams are constantly getting hammered for paying players these days. Especially for violations that happened under an entirely different regime.

An agenda would be constantly obsessing over a poster -- when your last obsession that had actually made you quit -- left...
 
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