Can anyone explain to me (LSU game)

57stratdawg · Oct 9, 2010

how was that fake FG not "advancing a fumble on 4th down". Last I heard you couldn't do that.

57stratdawg · Oct 9, 2010

how was that fake FG not "advancing a fumble on 4th down". Last I heard you couldn't do that.

Felonious Junk · Oct 9, 2010

it was a backwards pass. just like a dropped hand off or a dropped swing pass. it wasnt an intentional fumble to extend the play

tupelotim · Oct 9, 2010

That wasn't a fumble. Les said he called the behind back bounce pass fake field goal play. They executed the play with perfection just like they had done in practice all week.

57stratdawg · Oct 9, 2010

fumble and a dropped backwards pass?

You must be right, I just never have seen a distinction drawn between those two.

Felonious Junk · Oct 9, 2010

a ball fumble backwards whether it be a dropped backward pass or a dropped hand off is a live ball.

tupelotim · Oct 9, 2010

Unlike a forward pass, if a backward pass hits the ground or an official, play continues. Like a fumble, a backward pass that has hit the ground may be recovered and advanced by either team.

57stratdawg · Oct 9, 2010

Here's the NFL rule..

"On a play from scrimmage, if an offensive player fumbles anywhere on the field during fourth down,
only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball" That wasn't what happened in the LSU play tonight against Florida.

The rule must just be different in college football (I guess?). Otherwise, on every 4th down a guy thats about to get tackled would just drop the ball and hope one of his teammates picks it up.

Felonious Junk · Oct 9, 2010

watch much college football do you?

this isnt the nfl. there are tons of different rules between the two.

an no you can not intentionally fumble the ball forward and have it advanced. feel free to intentionally fumble it backward and risk the opponent picking it up.

patdog · Oct 9, 2010

57stratdawg · Oct 9, 2010

The only reasonable explanation is that that rule doesn't exist in college football, and it does in the NFL. Like I said earlier, that very well might be the case, but that ball was a fumble (I dont give a **** if it was lateraled or not, when it hits the ground it's a fumble).

skb124 · Oct 9, 2010

If I'm not mistaken, and I very well could be mistaken, I think I remember when Leinart played at USC he fumbled at the goalline and USC recovered for a touchdown, but the play was overturned due to the fumble on 4th down rule. I wanna say it was a game USC lost too. If that's the case then I think you may be on to something, and I would be confused at why the play was allowed too. On the other hand, I could have legitimately just made this whole situation up in my head.

patdog · Oct 9, 2010

it appears that the NCAA rule regarding advancing a fumble on 4th down is the same as the NFL rule (otherwise I would think they would have said, except in the NFL instead of except in American football). If so, it appears the refs blew the call.

A fumbled ball may be recovered and advanced by either team (except, in American football, after the two-minute warning in either half or 4th down, when the fumbling player is the only offensive player allowed to advance the ball, otherwise the ball is ruled dead at the spot of recovery if the ball bounces backwards or spotted at the point of the fumble if the ball travels forward).

57stratdawg · Oct 9, 2010

Angus,

The problem with your explanation of that rule is that either A) a dropped backwards lateral ISN'T a fumble, or B) you can advance a fumble on 4th down in NCAA. I dont think either of those are the case. When that ball hit the ground it should have been dead (I think). If you watch the replay, the ref comes up blowing his whistle and pointing to the spot where the holder let it go. I think that ref was making the correct call, but was overruled.

Think about it. If that rule wasn't in place, then on ever 4th down the runner would just drop the ball. Even if he dropped it backwards, it would be dead. I dont see the difference.

Todd4State · Oct 9, 2010

that means that running the triple option and pitching it is illegal on fourth down.

See, to me, that play was similar to an option play in that regard. I think you're getting thrown off by the bounce.

TXDawg.sixpack · Oct 9, 2010

Fumble[/b]

ARTICLE 1. A fumble is any act other than passing,
kicking or successful

handing that results in loss of player possession (A.R.
2-19-2-I, A.R. 4-1-3-I

and A.R. 7-2-2-I).



RULE 4-1 / BALL IN PLAY , DEAD BALL, OUT OF BOUNDS

Ball Declared Dead[/b]

ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall
sound his whistle

or declare it dead:

j. When, before a change of team possession on fourth
down or a try, a

Team A fumble is caught or recovered by a Team A player
other than the

fumbler (Rules 7-2-2-a
and -b and 8-3-2-d-5).

Approved Ruling 2-23-1

I. Fourth and goal on Team B’s five-yard line. A55’s
legal snap is

muffed by A12 and (a) any player of Team A recovers and
advances

the ball into the end zone, or (b) a player of Team B
recovers and

advances the ball. RULING: The snap is a backward pass
and may

be advanced by any player. (a) Touchdown. Since this is a
backward

pass and not a fumble there is no restriction on a Team A
player

recovering and advancing
the ball. (b) Ball continues in play.So, apparently there is a difference between a fumble and a backward pass and the restriction against recovering and advancing a fumble on 4th down does not apply to a backward pass. Therefore, since the attempt by the holder was obviously a backward pass, the kicker can recover and advance it.

TXDawg.sixpack · Oct 9, 2010

Double post.

louisianadawg · Oct 10, 2010

It was an incomplete pass just like a screen play that hits the ground. The ball was thrown
In front of him, not a lateral which makes it a pass and it was incomplete. At least majority of people don't
Have to listen to these lsu fans Monday.

bbqbully · Oct 10, 2010

It's becoming apparent that the SEC officials have declared Miles to be this year's Saban and the Corndogs are this year's Bama. The rules don't apply to them as long at The Hat wins and keeps his job.

patdog · Oct 10, 2010

Todd4State said:
Well, if you couldn't advance laterals on 4th down that means that running the triple option and pitching it is illegal on fourth down.

See, to me, that play was similar to an option play in that regard. I think you're getting thrown off by the bounce.

nobody's suggesting that you can't run a lateral or triple option on 4th down, since they aren't fumbles unless the ball hits the ground.

VegasDawg13 · Oct 10, 2010

57StratDawg said:
Here's the NFL rule..

"On a play from scrimmage, if an offensive player fumbles anywhere on the field during fourth down, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball" That wasn't what happened in the LSU play tonight against Florida.

The rule must just be different in college football (I guess?). Otherwise, on every 4th down a guy thats about to get tackled would just drop the ball and hope one of his teammates picks it up.

When a pitch hits the ground, who is considered to be the "fumbling player?" Maybe the intended recipient is considered the fumbling player, or maybe both players involved in the exchange are considered the fumbling player and therefore eligible to advance the ball.

Stallion4Tiiigaaahhhs · Oct 10, 2010

In the LSU game, it was not viewed as a forward pass.

mstateglfr · Oct 10, 2010

It wasnt a forward pass. It it was, then it would have been incomplete because it hit the ground. But just like when a QB passes it behind him to a receiver on the sideling and they drop it, this was a live ball. So the receiver picked it up and ran. The holder could have rolled it on the ground backwards and it would have been a live ball.

But instead of this, people say The Hat is the SEC's chosen one and got the call. Or that after what seemed like 5 friggin minutes of reveiw, the refs still blew the call.

8dog · Oct 10, 2010

is that a lateral is not a fumble. Therefore, anyone can advance it and the 4th down fumble rules don't apply.

It looks like they have it right.

57stratdawg · Oct 10, 2010

I just dont see how a backwards pass that hits the ground on 4th isn't considered a fumble. If the other team recovers, it would have to be officially scored as a fumble lost.

Here's the rule being talked about on the Florida scout board..

ARTICLE 2. a. When a backward pass or fumble is caught or recovered by any inbounds player, the ball continues in play
Exceptions:
On
fourth down before a change of team possession, when a Team A fumble is
caught or recovered by a Team A player other than the fumbler, the ball
is dead.

falzaergo · Oct 10, 2010

Exceptions:...when a Team A fumble is caught or recovered by a Team A player other than the fumbler, the ball is dead.

The exception applies a fumble, not a backward pass. They are two distinct actions..(1) passor (2) fumble.

The exception doesn't say a "Team A fumble or forward pass is caught or recovered".....only fumble.

Mean Machine say what · Oct 10, 2010

if it was a forward pass it would be an incomplete pass.

dogfan96 · Oct 10, 2010

it's no different than a toss sweep where the QB pitches the ball, the RB doesn't catch it , gets it on the bounce and advances it. Perfectly legal play.

dogfan96 · Oct 10, 2010

It says the exception occurs when a FUMBLE occurs.. a backward pass IS NOT a fumble.

ntzdog · Oct 10, 2010

You guys must not have seen much football especially in the mid-60's. A backwards bounce pass was in most teams' playbook. Since it is considered a lateral, the ball could be passed forward as well. You have probably seen backward passes on kick offs, when the team is running a trick play, in hopes of scoring on the final play.

Can anyone explain to me (LSU game)

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