Can somebody name one MSU pitcher that has improved under Butch Thompson?

[PhredPhantom]

Can somebody name <span style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline; font-style: italic;">one</span> MSU starting pitcher that has improved under Butch Thompson?

I can't think of one.

BTW, 17 was such an appropriate score for last night considering the rules on this board.

 

[jeremyrbrown]

ERA from 09 to 11: 9.17, 6.99, 1.02
K/BB from 09 to 11: 0.53, 2.13, 3.05
HR9 from 09 to 11: 1.5, 1.1, , 0.02

So yeah, there is at least one.

 

[PhredPhantom]

Yes, but Reed's not a starting pitcher; he's a closer. Maybe he started some games earlier in the year, I can' remember. It seems to me that the general rule is that once Thompson begins "coaching" our pitchers they usually get worse. I'm not saying pitchers don't need to be coached, it just appears to me that our current pitching coach (Thompson) is, in most cases, making them worse instead of better. Am I wrong about this?

 

[missouridawg]

I'm still not sold just yet on Butch... I trust that Cohen knows what he's doing, but I agree that our pitching staff is very questionable on development.

 

[jeremyrbrown]

but yes, you are still wrong.

Chris Stratton - his ERA has dropped, his K/BB has gone up, his HR/9 has gone down.

 

[weblow]

what he has had to work with. He is not a snake charmer and is not going got get the snakes out of Jones head, no matter how hard he tries, that guy is a head case.

I am one of Butch's toughest critics and have had several arguments on here about him being a ****** coach but I think he gets the benefit of the doubt this year.

On a side note, it is impossible this year to compare anything from the previous years other than strikes, balls, strikeouts, walks. With the bat changes, it has completely changed hitting in college baseball and homeruns are now popouts to the OF. Tough to even compare ERA's from years past for that reason, just look at balls and strikes.

 

[Paper Dog]

Caleb Reed is all you need to know ... yes he has drawn some starts

Yes, he would be a starter if he wasnt so valuable as the closer

Pollorena has thrown well (minus last night)

He has made something out of Evan Mitchell

Graveman is not where we need him to be but would certainly fit the "improved" category

Butch has caught a lot of flack the last couple of years, but he has produced a quality pitching staff this year

 

[PhredPhantom]

but yes, you are still wrong.

Chris Stratton - his ERA has dropped, his K/BB has gone up, his HR/9 has gone down.

I believe Stratton's last outing against the bears was not that sterling if I remember correctly. Maybe his overall average for the year is better but he was terrible in that game; he gave up 6 runs and didn't even make it out of the first inning.

Pollerena did poorly last night against the corndogs, too. I was there and saw it myself. Leaving him in while he was obviously struggling and telling him to throw to one of the hottest hitters in the SEC with 1st base open was poor coaching as far as I can tell. Maybe there were extenuating circumstances that I'm not aware of.

If Thompson doesn't have anything to work with, who is that on? Who does the recruiting?

 

[PhredPhantom]

Caleb Reed is all you need to know ... yes he has drawn some starts

Yes, he would be a starter if he wasnt so valuable as the closer

Pollorena has thrown well (minus last night)

He has made something out of Evan Mitchell

Graveman is not where we need him to be but would certainly fit the "improved" category

Butch has caught a lot of flack the last couple of years, but he has produced a quality pitching staff this year

Caleb Reed would be all we need to know only if he threw every pitch of every game. Unfortunately, that can't happen and you need to have more than one pitcher on your staff.

Maybe you are right about the "quality pitching staff" but I just don't see it.

 

[jeremyrbrown]

First of all, you need to learn how to properly reply. I don't care what your thoughts are on Pollorena. Somebody else mentioned him, not me. And I haven't said a word about recruiting.

Secondly, you can't take one start and judge a pitcher. In order to take your point about Stratton's last outing as proof that MSU pitchers don't improve under Butch Thompson, you would have to assume that the only sure sign of a pitcher getting better is if he never has a bad outing. He would have to have incremental improvement each time he pitches with no setbacks.

 

[Todd4State]

for starting pitcher.

Beyond that, Graveman, Girodo, Reed, and heck even Devin Jones has better numbers than last year- although I haven't looked to see what last night did to them.

Then you have the freshmen- I saw Taylor Stark pitch in high school- he is much better now than what he was then. Norris and Evan Mitchell have both pitched well. He found Luis Pollorena as well.

The problem with the pitching right now is depth. It's better than what it was- but it's still not quite where it needs to be. We have some decent arms in the bullpen, but the starting rotation needs some consistentcy. I still think Pollorena is a better fit coming out of the bullpen- we're having to start him on Fridays. Routt and Stratton are decent solid SEC pitchers but Routt is just now getting back to 100% and Stratton is still refining his stuff and learning how to use all of his pitches. Graveman has emerged as a decent midweek guy- but probably not a guy you want to use in your SEC rotation.

We also have a pretty young pitching staff still- we have zero senior pithers. The only juniors that we have are Routt, Reed, Statz, and Devin Jones. That's not an excuse- my point is that we, at least up until last night had a pitching staff that was ranked sixth in the SEC with most of the contributors being freshmen or sophomores. That's an exciting thing because they are going to get even better next year.

Now as to why we don't have a lot of upperclassmen pitchers- you'll have to ask Ron Polk about that.

 

[PhredPhantom]

First of all, you need to learn how to properly reply. I don't care what your thoughts are on Pollorena. Somebody else mentioned him, not me. And I haven't said a word about recruiting.

Secondly, you can't take one start and judge a pitcher. In order to take your point about Stratton's last outing as proof that MSU pitchers don't improve under Butch Thompson, you would have to assume that the only sure sign of a pitcher getting better is if he never has a bad outing. He would have to have incremental improvement each time he pitches with no setbacks.

Sorry, I didn't get the latest revision on the Rules for Properly Replying. Please forward them to me at your earliest convenience.

If you noticed, the comments on Pollerena were in a separate paragraph, thus connoting a new and separate thought and topic. I would think that a wordsmith like yourself would have recognized common rules and conventions of grammar and conversation. I don't know about you, but personally I am able to discuss one topic and immediately follow it with as separate, but related, topic.

Now to address your other concerns (all within your one reply, BTW):

I mentioned recruiting because most reasonable people would agree that it has a direct bearing on the success of our pitching. Thompson, being the pitching coach, is naturally the person that I would assume has the most to do with recruiting pitchers for our team. If this is not the case, then please let me know and I will stand corrected.

Regarding Stratton's improvement, would you say that, excluding his last outing, that he has improved from last year to this year? It doesn't seem to be the case to me but I could be wrong. Unless I remember incorrectly, last year he was considered to be our "Ace". This year, not so much. His performance seems to me to have had a general downward, not upward, trend this year as compared to last.

Reading between the lines, it seems that you have not only disagreed with me about Butch Thompson, but have taken offense because I have criticized a coach that you seem to think has done well. You didn't specifically say that but that is the general tone that I have perceived from your comments. If that is the case I am sorry that you felt offended. I just feel that we need a pitching coach that can consistently recruit quality pitchers to our team and foster significant and consistent improvement to their performance. Without this, I do not believe that we will ever be able to reach the levels we want our team to reach in this conference and division.

 

[coach66]

was really talking alot of **** about pitching on the broadcast last night and most of it made sense, that which I understood. He seems to really be into the pitching game and understands the nuiances and he also must be a decent coach as he justwon a state title at JA. The kids seem to love him and he seems to love coaching.

 

[PhredPhantom]

Todd4State:

I appreciate your most recent comments on this subject and can find no fault with them. In light of the evidence you have presented, I believe that I was probably too hasty in my judgement of Butch Thompson. Thank you for your insight.

 

[jeremyrbrown]

You can't forward common sense.

I think you have a problem with assuming instead of looking at facts. The end result is you look stupid.

I think you are offended that you decided to voice an opinion that you didn't come up with on your own. You expected to start a thread full of affirmation, but surprisingly several people informed you that you are wrong. My advice to you: take a break on posting until the end of baseball season, then quit.

 

[PhredPhantom]

You can't forward common sense.

I think you have a problem with assuming instead of looking at facts. The end result is you look stupid.

I think you are offended that you decided to voice an opinion that you didn't come up with on your own. You expected to start a thread full of affirmation, but surprisingly several people informed you that you are wrong. My advice to you: take a break on posting until the end of baseball season, then quit.

Well, jeremybrown, thank you for your thoughtful insight. I am glad that someone like Todd4State had more facts than I did and I am certainly willing to agree with facts when they are well-laid out as was the case in his post. It seemed to me that your replies to me, on the other hand, contained mostly (but not entirely) opinions just as my post did. I have the ability to recognize when I am incorrect and to learn from someone with better and more complete factual information. I may be ignorant but I am not stupid. There is a difference.

I am not offended just because some people did not agree with me. This is a sports <span style="font-style: italic; text-decoration: underline;">discussion</span> board after all. As you rightly mentioned, when I first started this thread, I did expect more people to agree with me than those who didn't. I'm happy to now learn that our baseball pitching staff is in such great shape. If this is true, hopefully it is an indication of future greatness.

Lastly, I think that I <span style="font-style: italic; text-decoration: underline;">will</span> continue to post as I see fit through the end of this baseball season and, instead of quitting as you suggested, will most likely continue to post opinions according to my desires long after then.

Thank you for your advice but I have no intention of following it. I hope you are not offended that I have disagreed with you.

 

[jeremyrbrown]

It seemed to me that your replies to me, on the other hand, contained mostly (but not entirely) opinions just as my post did.

What????? I posted stats....the furthest thing from opinions.

 

[Paper Dog]

nt