Can someone define "reasonable ballpark" for me?
- Thread starter lasher8
- Start date
Not sure, but I know he doesn't like it to be so hard to hit a home run. Thinks the fences should be brought in a bit to make it a more reasonable/realistic ball park. And perhaps a new baseball with smaller seams. I don't see why they don't just use a major league ball. I suppose the larger seams make breaking balls break more, but they might have excessive drag and keep the ball from going as far. The purpose of the seams (and dimples on a golf ball), other than manufacturability, is to trip the boundary layer so there is turbulent air flow over the ball and it flies straighter and farther. I'm sure there's a happy medium somewhere that reduces drag and still allows the seams to do their magic, and I suspect the MLB ball is closer to optimum.
This^
If this was looking like a Vandy vs North Carolina, or LSU vs Oregon State Final...we wouldn't be hearing a 17ing thing about this park. It's just a bunch of whiny bitches combined with ***** announcers that just want to see the big names in the Championship. Period.
So anytime a batter "gets absolutely all of it", it's supposed to be a home run? Any batter? Just certain batters?
And I guess they need to figure out a way to keep the wind from blowing in an across, cause I'm pretty sure that's had something to do with it too.
And I guess they need to figure out a way to keep the wind from blowing in an across, cause I'm pretty sure that's had something to do with it too.
If Renfroe hits one to dead center with the wind blowing in, could very well be the hardest ball ever hit. Damn I would love it!
I hate ESPN and everything about them. They would have to give us respect then. Especially when we shut those m17ers from Oregon out!!!! 15 hours 22 minutes! Not gonna be able to sleep.
I hate ESPN and everything about them. They would have to give us respect then. Especially when we shut those m17ers from Oregon out!!!! 15 hours 22 minutes! Not gonna be able to sleep.
If we were to somehow win this thing ...
there will probably be an asterisk by our school name saying something like "played in a ballpark unfair to superior, power hitting teams".
there will probably be an asterisk by our school name saying something like "played in a ballpark unfair to superior, power hitting teams".
Completely agree. Discussing the ballpark/bats/balls and their effect on scoring and home runs is legitimate. It's pretty obvious that it's become too hard in college baseball to hit for any power. Runs scored are at historic lows and it's not good for the game. We've cheapened a great pitching performance by making it too easy, just like we cheapened home runs 10-15 years ago. And that's a completely different issue than the fact that MSU, UCLA, UNC, & OSU have all had outstanding seasons, no matter what happens between now and next Wednesday.
Are people forgetting the safety issue? Until these new bats were brought in, I was fearful of someone getting killed. Those bats were so damn hot and players were getting bigger and stronger. Safety was the biggest reason they brought these bats in, and I'm all for it.
People crying about lack of runs and how it is hurting the game are short-sighted. Baseball purists love this type of baseball, with such an emphasis on pitching and defense.
It's not like the long ball is completely gone from the game. Numbers are down a bit, but the ball is still going. Renfroe hit 15, and Rea might have come close to that if he hadn't been injured early. For all the crying about the park being so big and unforgiving, people tend to forget that these are the eight best teams left in the tourney, and naturally the games are going to be tighter and lower scoring. Everyone is throwing aces.
People crying about lack of runs and how it is hurting the game are short-sighted. Baseball purists love this type of baseball, with such an emphasis on pitching and defense.
It's not like the long ball is completely gone from the game. Numbers are down a bit, but the ball is still going. Renfroe hit 15, and Rea might have come close to that if he hadn't been injured early. For all the crying about the park being so big and unforgiving, people tend to forget that these are the eight best teams left in the tourney, and naturally the games are going to be tighter and lower scoring. Everyone is throwing aces.
Yes, it is like the long ball is completely gone from the game. Numbers aren't down a bit, they're down dramatically. When you can play a 7-game regional and not have one single home run hit, that's going too far in the name of safety. And it's not like that's a real anomaly. In 10 CWS games, we've only had 2 home runs. That's going too far in the name of safety. And it's bad for the game of college baseball. Going to the professional baseball wouldn't be unsafe at all. Or at least no more unsafe the professional ball is at all levels. We're basically using pro bats now. There's no reason in the world we shouldn't be using pro baseballs instead of deadened ones.
And no, baseball purists don't love to see a guy just crush a hanging braking ball only to see it wind up a routine fly out left. Baseball purists love to see good play be rewarded and bad play be punished. And we're rewarding too much mediocre pitching these days, just like we used to punish good pitching in the live bat/ball - steroid era. Neither is good for baseball and a baseball purist doesn't like either one.
And no, baseball purists don't love to see a guy just crush a hanging braking ball only to see it wind up a routine fly out left. Baseball purists love to see good play be rewarded and bad play be punished. And we're rewarding too much mediocre pitching these days, just like we used to punish good pitching in the live bat/ball - steroid era. Neither is good for baseball and a baseball purist doesn't like either one.
I agree, this would appear to be evident by the fact that the 8 best teams in baseball are averaging less HR's per game than Creighton did in the regular season.( I know I stereotyped Creighton, they may be full of mashers in a league of mashers, but I'm not looking it up.)
Except there is no mediocre pitching left. This is the college world series. Everyone is pitching their best. Home runs are down this time of year, every year. It's just exaggeraged because of external factors. And it has more to do with the ball than it does the ballpark, although the park does play big.
And I guess neither of us should be speaking for baseball purists in general. But give me a 3-2 pitcher's duel, where every decision, every pitch, and every error has a direct impact on the game. This game sucks when it's 13-9 slugfests and we have guys going 1-4 with a three run homer up and down the lineup, and pitchers walk two or three guys every inning because they are afraid to throw strikes. That is a cheapened, bastardized version of the game.
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Baseball America guy tweeted last night that a coach was adamant about not switching balls but moving the fence in. Said that the higher seams help guys who don't have big arms. Going to the low seam ball would crush the smaller team's pitching staffs. None of the FBS level teams have enough guys with big arms but rely on movement. Basically, that movement can't be generated with a low seam ball by a lot of college pitchers.
There's still some mediocre pitching left, even in the CWS. Even at this level, no team is loaded with 6-8 ace pitchers. You're acting like there is no middle ground between 2-1 games where hanging curve balls turn into routine outs and 13-9 (or even 21-14 like the USC-ASU championship game) slugfests. No one is calling for a return to those days. I've already stated that that is just as much of a cheapened, bastardized version of the game as we have now, really even more so. But there's no real excuse for using professional bats (not wood, but engineered to match the performance characteristics of wood) and dead balls.
Stadium dimensions vs Rosenblatt (stolen from TigerDroppings)
Per wikipedia.... can anyone explain what all the fuss is about? Seems like they basically replicated Rosenblatt exactly. (searched and surprisingly didn't see this anywhere).
Rosenblatt before 2002
Before remodeling and reconfiguration for the 2002 season, the foul lines were 343 (later 335) and the power alleys were 370 (later 375). Centerfield was 420 (later 408).
Rosenblatt after 2002
Left Field - 335 feet (102 m)
Left-Center - 375 feet (114 m)
Center Field - 408 feet (124 m)
Right-Center - 375 feet (114 m)
Right Field - 335 feet (102 m)
Fence height
Left and Right Fields - 10 feet (3 m)
Center Field - 12 feet (4 m)
TD Ameritrade
Left Field Line – 335 ft (102 m)
Left Center – 375 ft (114 m)
Center Field – 408 ft (124 m)
Right Center – 375 ft (114 m)
Right Field Line -335 ft (102 m)
Per wikipedia.... can anyone explain what all the fuss is about? Seems like they basically replicated Rosenblatt exactly. (searched and surprisingly didn't see this anywhere).
Rosenblatt before 2002
Before remodeling and reconfiguration for the 2002 season, the foul lines were 343 (later 335) and the power alleys were 370 (later 375). Centerfield was 420 (later 408).
Rosenblatt after 2002
Left Field - 335 feet (102 m)
Left-Center - 375 feet (114 m)
Center Field - 408 feet (124 m)
Right-Center - 375 feet (114 m)
Right Field - 335 feet (102 m)
Fence height
Left and Right Fields - 10 feet (3 m)
Center Field - 12 feet (4 m)
TD Ameritrade
Left Field Line – 335 ft (102 m)
Left Center – 375 ft (114 m)
Center Field – 408 ft (124 m)
Right Center – 375 ft (114 m)
Right Field Line -335 ft (102 m)
I wouldn't mind seeing another home run or two, but I don't see what the big deal is here. So far in the CWS, the final scores have been 5-4, 2-0, 8-1, 2-1, 5-4, 11-4, 2-1, 4-2, 1-0, 7-0. Through 10 games, the winning team has averaged 4.3 runs per game. That seems like a pretty reasonable baseball winning score to me. I don't think I'd want it that much higher.
I think it's atmosphere, weather, no to little wind blowing out, lower in the ground, direction the stadium faces, etc. Bertman said TD Ameritrade plays like a calm night in Baton Rouge. Nothing gets hit out on a calm night in Baton Rouge in the new box. Thick air. Crushed balls at TD Ameritrade just stop. Hell, gappers get held up. It's not the length of the fences at TD Ameritrade per se. It's the fact you have to hit one that would travel about 420 in a "normal" college stadium to even get one out down the lines in TD Ameritrade.
In the regional, Katz hit one half way up the batters eye in center during the day time. Jones hit his picture on the scoreboard in a night game with some breeze (against the Rebs). Trey Porter hit the intimidator last year. Not sure any of those shots would get out of TD Ameritrade. Just thinking about recent balls absolutely crushed in Alex Box.
Alex Box dimensions:
Foul lines: 330 ft
Power alleys: 365 ft
Center: 405 ft
In the regional, Katz hit one half way up the batters eye in center during the day time. Jones hit his picture on the scoreboard in a night game with some breeze (against the Rebs). Trey Porter hit the intimidator last year. Not sure any of those shots would get out of TD Ameritrade. Just thinking about recent balls absolutely crushed in Alex Box.
Alex Box dimensions:
Foul lines: 330 ft
Power alleys: 365 ft
Center: 405 ft
Cohen supposedly has some statistics regarding home runs in Dudy Noble from before the installation of the skyboxes and after. After the skyboxes, the numbers of home runs decreased substantially. As others have posted, its not just the size of the park. Dudy Noble also tends to have the wind blow across the filed and rarely blow out. It plays large, but other ball parks where lots more home runs are hit have similar demensions.
I know that Rosenblatt was listed as 335 in right, but didn't it have a little corner that dipped in and made it very short if you could hit the ball right by the foul pole?
I know that Rosenblatt was listed as 335 in right, but didn't it have a little corner that dipped in and made it very short if you could hit the ball right by the foul pole?
How many runs are scored in an average MLB playoff game? I think that would be a better comparison.
Pretty small sample size, but looking at the last five MLB World Series, the average runs scored per game have been:
2012: 5.5
2011: 9.7
2010: 8.2
2009: 9.8
2008: 7.8
So, in most cases higher than the total runs per game so far in the CWS, but in one case lower. Like I said originally, I wouldn't mind seeing another home run or two, but I don't think it's quite the major problem ESPN is making it out to be.
2012: 5.5
2011: 9.7
2010: 8.2
2009: 9.8
2008: 7.8
So, in most cases higher than the total runs per game so far in the CWS, but in one case lower. Like I said originally, I wouldn't mind seeing another home run or two, but I don't think it's quite the major problem ESPN is making it out to be.
I realize that there is more to it than just size. You need only read a few corndog responses to this guy's post to know all the reasons that the park sucks for home-runs (they got into heavy air, located in a valley, wind direction, etc.). It was just interesting to me because in listening the TV guys, I was under the impression that the park was bigger. Also, it is funny to me because it is a classic human nature response. People who thought that they were home-run hitters finding out that they were dependent on the weather to even have a chance must be too humbling to take for some. Nobody ever takes well to finding out that they aren't actually as good at something as they thought, not that it is some new revelation that different ball parks have different personalities...
Move it all to indoor stadiums!**
Move it all to indoor stadiums!**
So that's roughly an average of 8.2 runs per game for a WS game. 28% higher than we're seeing in Omaha. Nobody is calling for a return to gorilla ball here. Just a more reasonable combination of bats/balls/ballparks so that good hitting is rewarded as much as good pitching is. The college game has spent way too long at one extreme and has now over-corrected towards the other extreme.
The biggest reason there are less home runs is the bats. There have been a good number of warning track shots in this CWS that would have been out with the old bats.
Where are all the dead players?
There have been more fatalities in college level sports in track and gymnastics than baseball. There was no real safety reason to go to dead bats. It was all supposition. The 3B coach that died that caused all the coaches to have to were helmets was killed from a ball off a wood bat. (it also did not hit him in the head so if he had a helmet on would not have made a difference).
Heck I just learned from my nephew, who now will be playing at Mississippi Valley next year, that even a wood bat has to be bbcor approved to be used in College Baseball. So the current bats are even more dead than standard wood bats.
There have been more fatalities in college level sports in track and gymnastics than baseball. There was no real safety reason to go to dead bats. It was all supposition. The 3B coach that died that caused all the coaches to have to were helmets was killed from a ball off a wood bat. (it also did not hit him in the head so if he had a helmet on would not have made a difference).
Heck I just learned from my nephew, who now will be playing at Mississippi Valley next year, that even a wood bat has to be bbcor approved to be used in College Baseball. So the current bats are even more dead than standard wood bats.
I've heard the argument that MLB expansion has diluted pitching, allowing for the uptick in runs scored. That being said, I fall into the camp that they have over adjusted in college and something needs to be tweaked. The fact that in 3 years no one has ever hit a HR to dead center field at AmeriTrade speaks volumes. I did hear rumors during the SEC tournament that they were contemplating making adjustments to Hoover now that the Barons had moved.
I think it's safe to say these bats have less carry than Pro Wood bats, due to..
The "bat whip" created by a wooden bat, which adds some distance when hit on the sweet spot. The metal bats do not flex that much. There is extra flex in a wooden bat, and when hit on the sweet spot it will carry as far as the older metal bats. I used to swing one in BP to make the sweet spot of the metal bat feel that much larger, but would get at least the same, if not more, carry from wood than the old metal. Just the chances of catching that sweet spot were about 25%, as compared to old metal. The old metal allowed for more forgiveness for ****** swings and points of contact. Can we not use wood bats at the collegiate level? If so why don't we start using them? Could be expensive because most wouldn't know how to swing them properly right away, and get sawed off.
The "bat whip" created by a wooden bat, which adds some distance when hit on the sweet spot. The metal bats do not flex that much. There is extra flex in a wooden bat, and when hit on the sweet spot it will carry as far as the older metal bats. I used to swing one in BP to make the sweet spot of the metal bat feel that much larger, but would get at least the same, if not more, carry from wood than the old metal. Just the chances of catching that sweet spot were about 25%, as compared to old metal. The old metal allowed for more forgiveness for ****** swings and points of contact. Can we not use wood bats at the collegiate level? If so why don't we start using them? Could be expensive because most wouldn't know how to swing them properly right away, and get sawed off.
Something like the Minnesota's MetroDome where you can control the AC fans and have them blow away from home plate when you're at bat, and in when you're not. Like the Twins did to the Braves in the 1991 WS. Twins lost every road game in that series and won every home game. Coincidence? I vote "NOOOO!!"
UNC's pitcher last night threw 132 pitches, and 131 were fastballs
and he pitched a shutout. That is ridiculous. These pitchers know that if they just throw strikes and let the batters hit it in the air, it's going to be caught. That is completely unfair to the batter. As unfair as the gorilla ball bats were to the pitcher, that's how unfair these dead balls and dead bats are to the hitters. It's like we're playing the CWS in the dead ball era of the 1920s. I didn't see the UNC home run, but Katz's homer was a line drive shot into the left field bullpen. That's the only way you're going to get a homer in this park. If you hit a fly ball, it's an out.
and he pitched a shutout. That is ridiculous. These pitchers know that if they just throw strikes and let the batters hit it in the air, it's going to be caught. That is completely unfair to the batter. As unfair as the gorilla ball bats were to the pitcher, that's how unfair these dead balls and dead bats are to the hitters. It's like we're playing the CWS in the dead ball era of the 1920s. I didn't see the UNC home run, but Katz's homer was a line drive shot into the left field bullpen. That's the only way you're going to get a homer in this park. If you hit a fly ball, it's an out.