Can someone explain something to me?

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I would have put this i the Final Four prediction thread, but I didn't want to high jack it.

How is it that the decision of four high school players is dictating whether this class of recruits is any good or not and causing some posters to sound like we need to hide any sharp objects that might be around them?

Is it because we have have to have a group of analysts approval that we got enough players to "rank" up there with the rest of the SEC?

Is it the Ole Miss factor as they get ready to hang another recruiting banner?

I recognize that getting solid recruits is very important but for the life of me I can't understand the hysteria involved.

 

[Will James]

Very close to campus.

Very good players.

Continuing trends that don't have to be this way.

 

[Dan Mullen]

I agree 100%. Everyone just needs to take a deep breath and relax. Focus on the important things like family. And beating Kentucky.

 

[ronpolk]

Something I'll never understand as well. Seems like every February, like clockwork, the fan are freaks out over not getting a kid. Somehow being an average recruiter makes Dan a bad coach in February. Winning at least 9 games over the last 2 years means nothing. I just trust him to put a good team on the field because he's proven he can do that.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Do you want to beat good teams consistently? Only good team we beat this year was ARK and barely. Every other good team, mauled our OL and we got blown out. If you want that to continue, then don't worry about signing four highly rated 4 and 5 star recruits (national recruits) all with in 20min of driving distance. Our schedule now includes another P5 team. We better get better players, but we seem to be going in reverse.

 

[HD6]

The thing that worries me is, we have 5 early enrollees and 11 commitments. As it sits today, we might add 2 more guys tomorrow. So that is 7 scholarships unused, that's like self inflicting probation on yourself.

People keep pointing to the 2011 class, but that class is an outlier, you are highly unlikely to find that kind of talent under the radar.

 

[1msucub]

Something I'll never understand as well. Seems like every February, like clockwork, the fan are freaks out over not getting a kid. Somehow being an average recruiter makes Dan a bad coach in February. Winning at least 9 games over the last 2 years means nothing. I just trust him to put a good team on the field because he's proven he can do that.

Good points, RP, but at least from my point of view it isn't that Dan is not a good coach; he's proven that at a school that has mainly been an afterthought. The problem, maybe this year more than ever, is we miss on SO MANY big kids that we should have a better chance at. Don't sell me that it's just Saban getting who he wants; I get that. We have kids in our backyard...with connections to MSU...that we LIKELY aren't going to get. Again.

Mullen absolutely stinks at recruiting. He has definitely been able to make up for a lot of that with good coaching; only the most stubborn wouldn't admit that....but we will never...EVER...be able to compete in the West recruiting the way we are. Add the fact that UM is now recruiting at (let's face it) an elite level, and that just adds one more team to the list with the historical powerhouses that we have to face almost every week. The NCAA investigation has NOTHING to do with us. We can't even keep our commitments from flipping after an incredible year and a scrotal ablation of Michigan. We've got EMCC RIGHT IN OUR BACKYARD and they can't stand him; meanwhile, they are just feeding Bama and UM player after player after player. Those are just facts.

I'm an old diehard, so don't tell me about how bad it used to be. I've sat through enough to know firsthand, so I won't dare cheapen what Mullen has done for State. If our goal is 8-9 games per year regardless of who those 8-9 teams are, we're on the right track. Otherwise, SOMETHING has to change.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Something I'll never understand as well. Seems like every February, like clockwork, the fan are freaks out over not getting a kid. Somehow being an average recruiter makes Dan a bad coach in February. Winning at least 9 games over the last 2 years means nothing. I just trust him to put a good team on the field because he's proven he can do that.

I have a filter. When someone defends Mullen with the "9 wins a season" argument they are immediately labeled a moron. Mullen is 7-21 against the other head coaches in our division. Those 9 win seasons are polished turds propped up by Kentucky and four cupcakes each season. If you think that's good, then by all means just give our version of David Cutcliffe a pass.

He needs to recruit at a higher level. Period.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

Because a handful of elite players can have a huge effect on a team's future.

 

[Will James]

Because a handful of elite players can have a huge effect on a team's future.

Exactly. We're talking about what could have been the best 20% of our class within 30 miles of campus and whiffing on the vast majority, possibly all. It's unacceptable. Not a good state of the program if we finish like this. Not good at all.

 

[ronpolk]

I have a filter. When someone defends Mullen with the "9 wins a season" argument they are immediately labeled a moron. Mullen is 7-21 against the other head coaches in our division. Those 9 win seasons are polished turds propped up by Kentucky and four cupcakes each season. If you think that's good, then by all means just give our version of David Cutcliffe a pass.

He needs to recruit at a higher level. Period.

If it's so easy for Msu to win 9 games by beating cupcakes and polished turds then why has no one other than Dan been able to consistently win at state? These same turds we beat now used to beat our *** on a consistent basis. If you can't see that then I hate you're missing out on what is truly the best period of MSU football.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

If it's so easy for Msu to win 9 games by beating cupcakes and polished turds then why has no one other than Dan been able to consistently win at state? These same turds we beat now used to beat our *** on a consistent basis. If you can't see that then I hate you're missing out on what is truly the best period of MSU football.

I have to agree with you, why weren't we able to do this in the past 50 years if it was so easy?

Not to mention the fact that we are competing with Alabama, LSU and other folks who are in the national championship talk each year and have been for a long time. We just got the national media to understand the difference between Mississippi and Mississippi State in football... well mostly understand.

I admit that Ole Miss is recruiting with those guys now... and they are also under investigation. Time will tell if they get hammered or hand slapped.

The thing that irritates me is the "We have done good but we could do so better" or the "Imagine if we had a top 15 class or two" folk who think it is just a matter of changing recruiting styles that will fix that. The only thing that will fix that outside of bag men and such is to continue to produce on the field. We have competed with the big boys on the field in the last couple of seasons.

We aren't going to turn into Bama recruiting overnight simply with different recruiting tactics when they have an established brand of nationally recognized football.

The more we get guys in the NFL will help to and we have started doing that recently. Tell me the last 5 year period in our history where we had as many players to to the NFL?

I'm off my soap box so have away.

 

[KeyserSoze1999]

I also always hope for the 4 or 5 elite players that will stand out in a signing class. But I never count an elite verbal commit as "a sure thing".

But I look at it this way: #1 What does our team need? #2 What commits do we have to fill these needs?

#1. Based on last year we need help at OL and we need some good shutdown coverage CBs. We could also need some edge pressure DEs and a few WRs.

#2. We have 3 OL as commits, two 3 Star guys and one 4 Star guy---all over 6'5 and 320 lbs. We also have around 13 OL guys on our roster currently including the #1 JUCO LT and the top Center in Alabama, however we STILL have Hevesey so we will have to see how this shakes out.

#2 more. Missing out on Knott hurts the CB need mentioned in #1 but we do already have Co-Lin CB Lashard Durr signed on and going through Spring work outs. And having a JUCO guy who can step right in immediately and help is huge.

#2 more. We have three 4 Star DEs committed, two 3 Star WRs and one 4 Star WR / LB, also we have three TEs committed currently.

So overall we are addressing our needs with this signing class however we do need to start pulling in a few Top Elite prospects to keep pace with the tough SEC West.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

If it's so easy for Msu to win 9 games by beating cupcakes and polished turds then why has no one other than Dan been able to consistently win at state? These same turds we beat now used to beat our *** on a consistent basis. If you can't see that then I hate you're missing out on what is truly the best period of MSU football.

2009: 5 wins (Jackson State, Vandy (2-10), MTSU, Kentucky (7-6) & Ole Miss (9-4))
2010: 9 wins (Memphis, UGA (6-7), Alcorn State, Houston, Florida (8-5), UAB, Kentucky (6-7), Ole Miss (4-8) & Michigan)
2011: 7 wins (Memphis, La Tech, UAB, Kentucky (5-7), Tennessee-Martin, & Ole Miss (2-10))
2012: 8 wins (Jackson State, Auburn (3-9), Troy, South Alabama, Kentucky (2-10), Tennessee (5-7), MTSU & Arkansas (3-9))
2013: 7 wins (Alcorn State, Troy, Bowling Green, Kentucky (2-10), Arkansas (3-9), Ole Miss (8-5) & Rice)
2014: 10 wins (USM, UAB, South Alabama, LSU (8-5), A&M (8-5), Auburn (8-5), Kentucky (5-7), Arkansas (7-6), UT-Martin, Vanderbilt (3-9))
2015: 8 wins (USM, Northwestern St, Auburn (7-6), Troy, La Tech, Kentucky (5-7), Missouri (5-7), Arkansas (8-5), NC State)

So first off, Mullen wins 7.7 games per year. So 8-10 isn’t accurate at all. It’s more like 7-8. Even if we throw out 2009 (be careful throwing it out because it has his best win to date) he still only averages 8.1 wins per year.

Secondly, I’ve bolded for your perusal the 10 wins I think Mullen can hang his hat on. These are games that even a good coach could lose if his team wasn’t prepared or had a bad week of practice or whatever. I was generous, including games like Michigan in 2010 (RichRod was a lame duck coach). Notice that four of these wins come in one season. I would call that an outlier.

The other 44 wins are what I would call polished turds. Yes they are wins. Yes, Croom might have lost them. But I truly believe that you could put any of the head coaches in our division and many if not all of their assistants in Mullen’s place and win those 44 games. These wins comprise 81.5% of his wins while here at MSU. He also gets one more of these wins per year than any of our previous coaches because we play 12 games now instead of 11.

So if you want to keep comparing Mullen to Croom and patting him on the back for not being as bad as one of the worst coaches in the history of the SEC, then go right ahead. But unless he starts recruiting at a level that can raise us out of this spot, we are destined to be 5th or worse in the West from here on out with a once in a decade or so run to 2nd or 3rd. Atlanta is non-starter. We aren't ever going back.

 

[DocHolliday.sixpack]

Bingo. Post of the day. POed for good reason...it gets old.

Good points, RP, but at least from my point of view it isn't that Dan is not a good coach; he's proven that at a school that has mainly been an afterthought. The problem, maybe this year more than ever, is we miss on SO MANY big kids that we should have a better chance at. Don't sell me that it's just Saban getting who he wants; I get that. We have kids in our backyard...with connections to MSU...that we LIKELY aren't going to get. Again.

Mullen absolutely stinks at recruiting. He has definitely been able to make up for a lot of that with good coaching; only the most stubborn wouldn't admit that....but we will never...EVER...be able to compete in the West recruiting the way we are. Add the fact that UM is now recruiting at (let's face it) an elite level, and that just adds one more team to the list with the historical powerhouses that we have to face almost every week. The NCAA investigation has NOTHING to do with us. We can't even keep our commitments from flipping after an incredible year and a scrotal ablation of Michigan. We've got EMCC RIGHT IN OUR BACKYARD and they can't stand him; meanwhile, they are just feeding Bama and UM player after player after player. Those are just facts.

I'm an old diehard, so don't tell me about how bad it used to be. I've sat through enough to know firsthand, so I won't dare cheapen what Mullen has done for State. If our goal is 8-9 games per year regardless of who those 8-9 teams are, we're on the right track. Otherwise, SOMETHING has to change.

Maybe the new DC hire will help in this department given some more time. Just absolutely inexcusable in my opinion that Dan can remain so hard headed about "certain things". Why get upset about 4-5 players? You honestly don't know the answer to that question? Let me paint you a picture. Take ONE player away from our team this year (Dak), which was a one time a recruit. Now granted, he's the exception to the rule with the whole diamond in the rough thing and recruiting stars. But take him away from this previous year and what is our record? Take away Treadwell or Kelly and what is the Bears record? So big players, be it 1 - 4 or 5 can change the dynamics of a game. So yes, yes it does it bother me that we miss on these guys that would be a lock for most other SEC schools.

 

[BossDawg78]

Very close to campus.

Very good players.

Continuing trends that don't have to be this way.

This. I don't think it's so much others getting recruits as it is State/Mullen letting the ones we SHOULD sign get away. Late flips, the ones very close to campus, etc...

 

[DawgatAuburn]

If it's so easy for Msu to win 9 games by beating cupcakes and polished turds then why has no one other than Dan been able to consistently win at state?

Because aside from Jackie we had terrible head coaches like Croom and Felker and an AD that wasn't willing to move with the times in order to win. Mullen and Byrne changed the culture for sure. But what Mullen has accomplished is only great in comparison to our past. To go beyond what he's done, he's at some point going to have to have the roster to do it.

 

[Junction John]

Shirley we are still holding some filler guys right now, correct?

Guys who are waiting to commit. The infamous diamonds in the rough? I don't study who's left/who's gone enough to know who is still out there. But it's not like the staff didn't know Knott, Brown, Simmons were at risk... Hell, I know I've been hearing it for weeks now.

 

[the dog is on the loose]

Here's the thing with recruiting that hurts the most: We are only one season removed from being the #1 ranked team for 5 wks but we can't even beat kentucky in recruiting. Now tell me that there's nothing wrong with our recruiting.

 

[aTotal360]

Mullen has raised the floor. Not the ceiling. We don't lose to Maine and Troy anymore which speaks to how low the bar was set. But we also don't beat teams that are better than us. End of the year rankings are all that matter when talking about this. I haven't looked, but I wonder if we've beat a team that finished higher in the polls than we did.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

But what Mullen has accomplished is only great in comparison to our past. To go beyond what he's done, he's at some point going to have to have the roster to do it.

Could not agree more.

 

[BossDawg78]

If it's so easy for Msu to win 9 games by beating cupcakes and polished turds then why has no one other than Dan been able to consistently win at state?

IMO, because in the past we simply didn't have the people in place that gave a rat's *** about winning in football. Whether it was fans or the athletic director, the overall interest just wasn't there. Also, that was back when our facilities and Starkville actually did gag a buzzard. Jackie changed all of that, Mullen has REALLY changed attitude and MSU football is a different beast than it once was. Damn the past, this is now. We're an entirely different program. People actually care.

The past has nothing to do with our ABILITY to compete for a division championship now. Screw that whole "ho hum look at the past, we should be happy with 9 wins or a Liberty Bowl bid" mentality.

 

[HD6]

If they are, then they haven't had an official visit. Going way under the radar.

 

[BossDawg78]

Maybe the new DC hire will help in this department given some more time.

That doesn't matter. His *** will be gone along with another coach or two after next season. My confidence in this staff's ability to maintain a coaching staff is gone. Sometimes I wonder if it is Dan driving them off or is it Strick not negotiating with them enough to keep them around.

 

[mstateglfr]

I would have put this i the Final Four prediction thread, but I didn't want to high jack it.

How is it that the decision of four high school players is dictating whether this class of recruits is any good or not and causing some posters to sound like we need to hide any sharp objects that might be around them?

Because so many in life have very little power, and they seek outlets for ways to express the desire for power. Thumping your chest over your school landing a few recruits instead of a coworker/neighbor/buddy's school getting those recruits gives you power thru accomplishment.
Sure, you didnt actually accomplish anything. Sure, you are living and dying on the decisions of high schoolers. But you can hang your cap on that accomplishment.

...so when those recruits dont choose your school, not only do you still have no power in life, but you also failed and accomplished nothing in the area where you focus your efforts(again, even though they arent your efforts).



Perspective is an incredible power.