Cardinals look better without Pujols...
- Thread starter DAWG61
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They haven't even played 10% of their games yet. There's no way their team will produce at the current level much longer. I still say they made the right decision not signing Pujols, but I certainly wouldn't say they are better without them.
Agreed, way too early to tell. However, in baseball their is no way you get better with less talent, provided that talent isn't a cancer, which Pujols obviously is not.
The real value of a guy like Pujols is that he can carry a team through a tough stretch. With 162 games, all teams are going to play good and bad at times. The difference is how long the good or bad spells are. The Cards are playing well right now and thus don't need Albert, but that won't last long and they will wish they had that superstar to carry them.
The real value of a guy like Pujols is that he can carry a team through a tough stretch. With 162 games, all teams are going to play good and bad at times. The difference is how long the good or bad spells are. The Cards are playing well right now and thus don't need Albert, but that won't last long and they will wish they had that superstar to carry them.
I think they will hang close to this level of output. Like him or not, Mac has done a fabulous job. The at-bats this team takes along with how they approached ABs the second half of last year have been tremendous. Just need Furcal, Beltran, Berkman, and Freess to play 140 games each.
I don't disagree with anything you just said. I am just simply saying that however good they may be at the end of the year, it won't be as good as they would be with Pujols.
But I think Pujols leaving was the best thing that could have happened to the Cardinals. He was holding them captive with the contract he wanted, and now they can upgrade at probably 5 or so positions with all the money they saved not paying him. The thing is, though, they don't have to upgrade that much so now they are in a fantastic position monetarily wise and they already have a very good team. One player is not going to win the World Series, and Pujols is not going to be as productive 5 years from now and they would still be paying him gobs. Now the Cards have the option to be very active come trade deadline. He also went to the AL which is huge for them. <div>The sad thing is taking out Carlos Lee, the Astros other starting 8 (including Wandy) are making 10 million less than Albert. I don't know when we will have a winning season again.
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he left a huge hole in the middle of that lineup.
They will be better off in the long term, but he is still the most feared hitter in baseball. How can you not miss that?</p>
They will be better off in the long term, but he is still the most feared hitter in baseball. How can you not miss that?</p>
It's been said over and over, but the key is health. If your middle of the lineup is Beltran, Holliday, Berkman, Freese, and Molinayou tell me where the hole is..That's two of the most accomplished switch hitters of all-time, a pereninal all-star, one of the up and coming stars of the game, and a catcher who is hitting as well as Brian McCann over the last year+...If you average 140 games from that group, they will have the top offense in the NL again. That's not including role players like Furcal, Jay, and Craig who are all above average players offensively. The only "hole" in that lineup is 2b and the pitchers spot.</p>
Berkman is about to miss his 5th game of the season - out of 13.babbleBrebel said:
I know your a homer andstruggle to be objective (which is fine - that's what homers do), but answer these two questions:
Who would you rather have in the 3 spot, Pujols or Holliday?
Who would you rather have in the 4 spot, Holliday or Berkman?
I know we all remember Berkman's comeback season last year, buthas his 7 homers and driven in 33since the All-Star break.
So they really dont have to replace as much production as you would think from losing Pujols.He only had 99 rbi last year.Freesewill drive in 100 if he plays 145 games. They are as good, maybe better, bc they are deeper -- if they stay healthy. Never said they didnt have a health issue.
Freese, Furcal, Beltran, and Molina are all playing way above their respective averages right now. Those guys will not produce at this level all year. And 3 of those guys are huge injury risks, not including Berkman, Carpenter, Wainwright, and Westbrook.babbleBrebel said:
But comparing to last year, the only difference is Beltran and Pujols. So you are a better team with Beltran and not Pujols? That's blasphemy.
is the Cardinals also got the Angels first round draft pick (19) and then they got an additional pick in the supplemental first round.
Also, Matt Adams who will eventually replace Pujols is hitting .400 at AAA with 3 home runs. I'm wondering when they will call him up- maybe as soon as Berkman goes on the DL. I think he is going to be pretty good.
I'm hoping that eventually Oscar Tevaras will replace Beltran in a couple of years and Kolton Wong will replace the revolving door at second base in a couple of years.
I hope the Cardinals spend at least one of their five first round/supplemental first round picks on a SS that can move through the organization quickly.
I think is was a tough move from a popularity standpoint- to let Pujols go- but I think keeping him with that kind of a contract would have severely crippled the team. As it is, they've already re-signed Molina and they can probably re-sign Wainwright now. I don't think that would have happened if they kept Pujols- they certainly wouldn't have Beltran and they probably wouldn't have Furcal.
Plus, it seems like David Freese has taken over as the "face of the franchise" or is at least well on his way.
The only thing that worries me right now is Shelby Miller struggling in AAA.
Also, Matt Adams who will eventually replace Pujols is hitting .400 at AAA with 3 home runs. I'm wondering when they will call him up- maybe as soon as Berkman goes on the DL. I think he is going to be pretty good.
I'm hoping that eventually Oscar Tevaras will replace Beltran in a couple of years and Kolton Wong will replace the revolving door at second base in a couple of years.
I hope the Cardinals spend at least one of their five first round/supplemental first round picks on a SS that can move through the organization quickly.
I think is was a tough move from a popularity standpoint- to let Pujols go- but I think keeping him with that kind of a contract would have severely crippled the team. As it is, they've already re-signed Molina and they can probably re-sign Wainwright now. I don't think that would have happened if they kept Pujols- they certainly wouldn't have Beltran and they probably wouldn't have Furcal.
Plus, it seems like David Freese has taken over as the "face of the franchise" or is at least well on his way.
The only thing that worries me right now is Shelby Miller struggling in AAA.
That's a great little plan you have there, Toddy. Best idea you've had for the franchise since you floated the idea about trading Encarnarcion for a frontline starter.Todd4State said:
as your plan to dump Chris Carpenter three years ago Bluey.
They don't win the World Series last year without him.
They don't win the World Series last year without him.
Depends on who they would have replaced him with, but he did kind of pull a Lazarus wouldn't you say? <div>Todd4State said:
</div><div>BTW, I also said they should have traded Pujols after they didn't sign him before last season. Not sure if it was the right or wrong thing to do, but you would think they could have gotten something better than a couple of draft picks.</div>
cards are batting .301 as a team this year with a .879 ops (last year their ops was .766). boston led the league last year in runs batting .280 with a .810 ops.
the cards pitching staff has a 2.77 era right now. the phillies led the league last year with a 3.02 era.
no way they don't drop off a good bit.
the cards pitching staff has a 2.77 era right now. the phillies led the league last year with a 3.02 era.
no way they don't drop off a good bit.
because I work in health care and know a little more about arm injuries.
Regardless, whether he pulled a "Lazarus" or not, you were wrong.
There was no way that they could have traded Pujols- Albert would not have allowed it. He had 10/5 rights and it was discussed before. Plus, most teams aren't going to want to trade top of the line prospects. Not saying that the Cardinals will definately get that in the draft this year, but odds are the players that they will get are going to be as good if not better than what they would have gotten.
I thought they handled it correctly given the circumstances- make an offer because not making one at all would have been a PR disaster. Hold your ground and either someone like the Angels overpay him or you get him for a fair price because no one else wants to pay him and his options are the Cardinals or Japan.
And then have Albert and his wife pull the "God wanted us to leave" card for good measure.
Regardless, whether he pulled a "Lazarus" or not, you were wrong.
There was no way that they could have traded Pujols- Albert would not have allowed it. He had 10/5 rights and it was discussed before. Plus, most teams aren't going to want to trade top of the line prospects. Not saying that the Cardinals will definately get that in the draft this year, but odds are the players that they will get are going to be as good if not better than what they would have gotten.
I thought they handled it correctly given the circumstances- make an offer because not making one at all would have been a PR disaster. Hold your ground and either someone like the Angels overpay him or you get him for a fair price because no one else wants to pay him and his options are the Cardinals or Japan.
And then have Albert and his wife pull the "God wanted us to leave" card for good measure.
No doubt the Cards made the right decision letting Albert go, and they will be a better team for it in the future. But right now I just don't see how anyone can say that they are currently better without him in 2012.
Actually I remember saying he didn't look right on a Sunday night start against the Cubs. You said he was fine. Hedidn't pitch 10 innings the rest of the year. So forgive me if I don't come to your for treatment.Todd4State said:
He had a solid year last year and whoknows about this year. He's beenhit or miss for several years now.
that I have to deal with. No loss for me.
If I remember correctly, you also said it was the same elbow injury when it was actually a shoulder injury- which was a totally different injury than the original one and you argued till you were blue in the face. I also remembered that Carpenter looked so bad that he had an ERA of 1.76 and you said that you "didn't need stats to tell you that something was wrong". Now your excuse is that he came back because of a Lazarus like miracle because how could you possibly be wrong? I mean, you've only been wrong 700 times before.
http://sixpackspeak.yuku....new-strange-faces?page=2
I'm just glad we didn't replace him with John Smoltz like you wanted to. It would have been hard to beat Halladay and pitch Game seven from some random broadcast booth. Good call on that.
At least you endorsed Big Mac as the hitting coach. You made yourself look good on that- oh wait...
http://sixpackspeak.yuku....ardinal-fans-it-happened
I'm awaiting to see which Biblical references you come up with to make your excuses for being wrong.
If I remember correctly, you also said it was the same elbow injury when it was actually a shoulder injury- which was a totally different injury than the original one and you argued till you were blue in the face. I also remembered that Carpenter looked so bad that he had an ERA of 1.76 and you said that you "didn't need stats to tell you that something was wrong". Now your excuse is that he came back because of a Lazarus like miracle because how could you possibly be wrong? I mean, you've only been wrong 700 times before.
http://sixpackspeak.yuku....new-strange-faces?page=2
I'm just glad we didn't replace him with John Smoltz like you wanted to. It would have been hard to beat Halladay and pitch Game seven from some random broadcast booth. Good call on that.
At least you endorsed Big Mac as the hitting coach. You made yourself look good on that- oh wait...
http://sixpackspeak.yuku....ardinal-fans-it-happened
I'm awaiting to see which Biblical references you come up with to make your excuses for being wrong.
I don't make excuses.
Carpenter panned out, Smoltz retired so he can become a HOF. Sue me.
And good for Mark McGuire. I still wouldn't have hired the doping SOB.
Good call on Brett Wallace.</p>
Carpenter panned out, Smoltz retired so he can become a HOF. Sue me.
And good for Mark McGuire. I still wouldn't have hired the doping SOB.
Good call on Brett Wallace.</p>
And I don't know who the hell Mark McGuire is and I don't care whether you would hire him or not. I do know who Mark McGwire is though. And if you wouldn't hire him solely based on the fact that he used steroids when a good percentage of MLB players were using them when it was legal, well, then you might want to read the Bible verse about judging not lest you be judged. Fortunately for you, God doesn't decide who goes to Heaven based on their Internet posting skills. Otherwise, your *** would end up in the hot tub of fire.
And way to not mention the sentence right before the Brett Wallace comment- "David Freese will be the third baseman on opening day."
And way to not mention the sentence right before the Brett Wallace comment- "David Freese will be the third baseman on opening day."
<div>I was at games 6 and 7 and never saw the guy come out of the dugout.</div><div>
</div>You two fools deserve each other.<div>
</div><div>Should call your show the toolshed.</div>
</div>You two fools deserve each other.<div>
</div><div>Should call your show the toolshed.</div>
the worth of a pitching coach by how many times he comes out of the dugout.
Heck, I figure if they're not coming out of the dugout, it's usually a good thing.
Heck, I figure if they're not coming out of the dugout, it's usually a good thing.