CFB Coach Carousel, '25
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Fitzgerald was 100% sought after by Chicago and Notre Dame--it's not even debatable
I'm not sure why you're trying to claim he's not a highly respected coach that was insanely well respected. He's not Urban Meyer or Nick Saban but he could have left Northwestern for countless jobs.
Also, his agent wasn't floating anything--he wasn't pushing for raises like Franklin and other coaches.
^ There may have been interest, but he was never offered.
And again, that was before his putrid last 3 out of 4 years.
If Fitzgerald is that much in demand as a coach, why did he settle for MSU when there were way better openings?
There's a reason why Fitzgerald doesn't have much of a coaching tree.
Aside from Hankwitz, who fell into his lap (having been DC for Gary Barnett) Fitzgerald has been horrible at hiring coordinators, especially on O - which is why NU really struggled to recruit QBs and WRs (not to mention couldn't even field an average O-line).
Pat (like Mike Tomlin) has long been overrated by the national media.
Not saying he's a horrible coach, he's decent enough but has significant flaws which prevents a program from reaching its potential (a la BGJ or Ferentz).
Can go through so many things that Fitzgerald got wrong and/or took too long to correct - many of which were just common sense.
Remember, he had the benefit of competing in the B1GW when Neb, Illinois, Purdue and towards the end, Wisky, were all down, so only real competition was Iowa.
And he had way too many bad losses -
Dook (ending their losing streak by the dumb decision to take points off the board)
New Hampshire
Nevada
Army (when they were bad)
Western Michigan
Illinois St
Akron
Southern Illinois
Miami (OH)
And again, that was before his putrid last 3 out of 4 years.
If Fitzgerald is that much in demand as a coach, why did he settle for MSU when there were way better openings?
There's a reason why Fitzgerald doesn't have much of a coaching tree.
Aside from Hankwitz, who fell into his lap (having been DC for Gary Barnett) Fitzgerald has been horrible at hiring coordinators, especially on O - which is why NU really struggled to recruit QBs and WRs (not to mention couldn't even field an average O-line).
Pat (like Mike Tomlin) has long been overrated by the national media.
Not saying he's a horrible coach, he's decent enough but has significant flaws which prevents a program from reaching its potential (a la BGJ or Ferentz).
Can go through so many things that Fitzgerald got wrong and/or took too long to correct - many of which were just common sense.
Remember, he had the benefit of competing in the B1GW when Neb, Illinois, Purdue and towards the end, Wisky, were all down, so only real competition was Iowa.
And he had way too many bad losses -
Dook (ending their losing streak by the dumb decision to take points off the board)
New Hampshire
Nevada
Army (when they were bad)
Western Michigan
Illinois St
Akron
Southern Illinois
Miami (OH)
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Why aren't you hitting reply inst4ead of "^"
The was 100% offered jobs. He wasn't in as high of demand right now as he hasn't coached in a few years. Yet he still got a P2 job.
Of course he doesn't have a coaching tree having worked at Northwestern.
If Tomlin was fired tomorrow he'd have a job within 5 hours--he should be fired but Andy Reid should have been fired by Philly and that worked out for everyone.
Ferentz is at Iowa--you're not being realistic here at all. Look at what Northwestern accomplished under Fitz they never did prior.
Even in the Big Ten West he had an uphill battle--again, see his restrictions and compare that to Wisconsin and others.
All coaches have bad losses. Do you want a list of Paterno's bad losses? Remember Ohio State wanted Day fired a year ago today.
You're not getting what Northwestern is--having attend law school there (after Penn State) I'm fully aware.
^ Again, if the Bears had offered him the job, he would have taken it.
Coaching the Bears was a dream of his.
What does coaching at NU have to do with things?
Many top coaches and assistants move up the ranks of CFB (even way lower on the totem pole than NU).
The reason why Fitzgerald (like Tomlin) doesn't have much of a coaching tree despite longevity as a HC is bc they hire mediocre assistants/coordinators.
Fitzgerald's predecessor, Walker, despite a much shorter tenure (RIP - heart attack) had a no of assistants who moved on to bigger and better things, including an OC who moved to Oklahoma and later became a HC.
You really comparing PSU's or dOSU's "bad losses" to what I had listed?
Didn't even include losses to teams like NIU bc at the time we're pretty decent.
Again, aside from the 2020 season, Fitzgerald went 1-8 in 3 of his last 4 seasons while playing in the mediocre B1GW.
Funny how these restrictions didn't prevent Fitzgerald from having success when he had a just an average Of to go with an above average D.
But he even bungled that when he hired his buddy after Hankwitz retired - leading to the 1-11 season (just scraping by a Scott Frost Neb team in Ireland).
That's 11 consecutive losses.
Attending law school isn't the same as following the program closely.
And it's not like Fitzgerald was like Matt Campbell, building a program from scratch.
His 2 predecessors, Barnett and Walker won 3 B1G titles (having tougher schedules).
Coaching the Bears was a dream of his.
What does coaching at NU have to do with things?
Many top coaches and assistants move up the ranks of CFB (even way lower on the totem pole than NU).
The reason why Fitzgerald (like Tomlin) doesn't have much of a coaching tree despite longevity as a HC is bc they hire mediocre assistants/coordinators.
Fitzgerald's predecessor, Walker, despite a much shorter tenure (RIP - heart attack) had a no of assistants who moved on to bigger and better things, including an OC who moved to Oklahoma and later became a HC.
You really comparing PSU's or dOSU's "bad losses" to what I had listed?
Didn't even include losses to teams like NIU bc at the time we're pretty decent.
Again, aside from the 2020 season, Fitzgerald went 1-8 in 3 of his last 4 seasons while playing in the mediocre B1GW.
Funny how these restrictions didn't prevent Fitzgerald from having success when he had a just an average Of to go with an above average D.
But he even bungled that when he hired his buddy after Hankwitz retired - leading to the 1-11 season (just scraping by a Scott Frost Neb team in Ireland).
That's 11 consecutive losses.
Attending law school isn't the same as following the program closely.
And it's not like Fitzgerald was like Matt Campbell, building a program from scratch.
His 2 predecessors, Barnett and Walker won 3 B1G titles (having tougher schedules).
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Again, you're incorrect--Northwestern was his dream job
What do you mean what does coaching Northwestern have to do with things? It's the entire discussion.
How many assistants at schools like Northwestern land HC elsewhere? Name 5
Fitzgerald was at NW--he doesn't have the budget for great coordinators--you get that, right?
Again, all teams have bad losses, we have infinitely more talent and have lost to MAC teams. Remember when Michigan lost to App State or last year when Notre Dame lost to a MAC team?
You keep focusing on the bad years--Northwestern was always going to have bad years--that was inevitable.
You know absolutely nothing about Northwestern or Pat Fitzgerald--but...keep arguing this nonsense.
I'm sure you shocked he got a P2 job instantly when he was cleared.
As for Tomlin being snapped up if he were to be fired, that's perfectly fine, but that doesn't mean he still isn't an overrated coach who has problems building a competent O.
Even on his side of the ball, despite the most expensive defensive roster, the D gets smoked way too many times.
Part of the problem is that Tomlin has too much say in personnel, is overly conservative on O, and thinks he's some kind of defensive guru when his scheme is outdated (which is why numerous Pats and other players have called it out for being predictable).
Even on his side of the ball, despite the most expensive defensive roster, the D gets smoked way too many times.
Part of the problem is that Tomlin has too much say in personnel, is overly conservative on O, and thinks he's some kind of defensive guru when his scheme is outdated (which is why numerous Pats and other players have called it out for being predictable).
I know a few things about Pat Fitzgerald.
The only thing you need to know is that he is a duplicitous, hypocritical POS.
He’ll publicly compliment someone while concurrently stabbing them in the back.
Um, the one job he would have left NU for is to coach the Bears.
Already listed Walker's OC who left to be the OC of Oklahoma and later became IU's HC; not necessarily talking about coordinators getting HC jobs (albeit shouldn't have been an issue to get a HC gig at a lower level), but moving up the food chain as coordinators or position coaches.
Heck, Indiana had to give hefty pay raises to Cig's staff in order to prevent them from leaving after last season.
You can pick up and coming coordinators from lower levels; so many programs have had success with thar.
Think NU can pay coordinators considering they have spent a Billion and a half on facilities.
Or maybe Fitz (like Tomlin), shouldn't suck up so much of the coaching budget.
I'm not really sure what you think you're arguing here with Tomlin. He should be fired, his OC decisions have been subpar, he needed to fire his DC years ago. He's still going to be in the HOF--and will sadly probably still win another division title so I'm stuck with him.
I don't know how to say this more clearly. I know for a fact he was offered the job and stayed at Northwestern. It's not speculation or an opinion. It happened. Period.
And Fitzgerald's coorindators were loyal to him. Hankwitz could have left countless times for other roles but was older and content with Fitz who he trusted. The DC prior to him, Colby, did go on to be HC at Millersvillle. Garrick McGee went on to coach UAB.
You're not making sense here.
You stating this shows you have little to no credibility when it comes to knowing NU football or Fitzgerald.
You want to debate specific games where Fitz's boneheaded decisions ending up costing the team a W?
Funny how I'm the one laying out evidence which you can't refute... lol
I've known Pat Fitzgerald for over 30 years--I think I know more than you
But you figured out how to respond to something so baby steps
Sure, we have nothing but your word. Lol
Not a whiff of it from anyone in the program, much less the Bears or the NFL insiders.
Fitzgerald would have jumped at the chance to coach his pro team growing up (not to mention the bigger paycheck).
I don't care if you believe me
You said none of his coaches did anything--you were wrong because you don't know anything about the guys that worked for him
Everyone connected with Northwestern knows--everyone.
And I give a rat's are that you don't care, but that doesn't negate the fact that there is NO reason anyone should believe you.
You repeatedly saying it's true doesn't make it so.
Funny how no one else seems to have heard it to be true, so everyone is to believe you have some special knowledge that no one else (not people within Northwestern or the Bears organization) are aware of? Lol
Ok, maybe you do have knowledge that no one else does (such as being a relation to Pat), so when exactly was this so-called offer made?
Then don't believe me--I'm just glad you figured out how to respond to something
You continually saying you disagree with me or don't believe me also doesn't make it true--see how that works
Everyone within both those organizations are well-aware
When they fired Nagy after the 2021 season before going to Eberflus
^ You keep repeating the same thing without ever preferring any evidence? Lol
Why is that no one else seems to have knowledge that an offer was made and rejected?
Otoh, I've listed many reasons why Fitzgerald was way overrated by the National media (as is Tomlin) and can add many more reasons.
Why is that no one else seems to have knowledge that an offer was made and rejected?
Otoh, I've listed many reasons why Fitzgerald was way overrated by the National media (as is Tomlin) and can add many more reasons.
So the Bears were going to hire a coach who just went 1-8 in the B1G (playing in the weaker B1GW) and had done that prior 2 years earlier? LMAO!
The Bears FO has had its issues, but even they wouldn't do that, especially has Fitzgerald has shown little ability to recruit and develop a QB (much less recruit and develop even an average O-line), which is what the Bears needed in an HC.
But let's say that is true and no one else but you were privy to that info, that still doesn't make Pat an elite, much less a very good HC.
Plenty of coaches get hired by the NFL or by a blue-blood college program and fail miserably.
The Bears would've even been worse of (than under Eberflus) playing Pat's dinosaur style of O.
Speaking of which, it got so bad that NU's best receivers transferred out (reminiscent of disgruntled Steelers wideouts pushing their way out)
After 10+ seasons with mediocre O-lines, Braun (a defensive coach), in just his 2nd year with his assistants managed to field a pretty decent O-line.
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Yes, they were because they comprehend what it's like to coach at Northwestern.
He's 100% a great coach and accomplished things previously thought to be impossible at Northwestern
Don't think the Bears could have been worse
Steelers history is unloading WRs when they should be unloaded. Pickens has already caused issues in Dallas.
Braun's done a decent job--largely with Fitz's guys. He was also hired by Fitz to be his DC before the nonsense happened. "The more you know"
Ok, since you've known Pat for so long, ask him this.
For a person/coach who long spoke of and prided himself about "taking responsibility" and the importance of (the program) being a "family", why did when the hazing scandal broke, Pat removed himself of any responsibility (not talking just legal) by doing the Sergeant Schultz?
Pat holds some responsibility in allowing such a culture to fester; we're not talking a one time incident or something that happened during the course of a single season, but over many years where it became institutionalized.
And Pat had the arrogance/audacity to say that he was "disappointed" by the 2 week suspension (during the off-season) which was a slap on the wrist and what should have been the minimum for "regular" hazing (that of a non-sexual nature).
But once (alleged) sexual abuse entered the discussion, he (and then-NU President) Schill should have both known that the slap on the wrist was nowhere enough.
Doesn't matter if Pat didn't know (or it couldn't be proven that he knew); he was hardly "vindicated" responsibility and morally-wise), he still had some culpability in allowing something like that to fester for years.
The firing and lawsuits (aside from the ones brought forth by the alleged victims) could have all been avoided if there had been a more appropriate response (including holding some moral responsibility and concern for the victims) - both Pat and Schill made horrible decisions and/or got bad advice.
Was a supporter of Pat (didn't stop me from critiquing his coaching) because he supposedly did things the right way, but as it turns out, that was a facade and all the talk about responsibility and family were empty words.
For a person/coach who long spoke of and prided himself about "taking responsibility" and the importance of (the program) being a "family", why did when the hazing scandal broke, Pat removed himself of any responsibility (not talking just legal) by doing the Sergeant Schultz?
Pat holds some responsibility in allowing such a culture to fester; we're not talking a one time incident or something that happened during the course of a single season, but over many years where it became institutionalized.
And Pat had the arrogance/audacity to say that he was "disappointed" by the 2 week suspension (during the off-season) which was a slap on the wrist and what should have been the minimum for "regular" hazing (that of a non-sexual nature).
But once (alleged) sexual abuse entered the discussion, he (and then-NU President) Schill should have both known that the slap on the wrist was nowhere enough.
Doesn't matter if Pat didn't know (or it couldn't be proven that he knew); he was hardly "vindicated" responsibility and morally-wise), he still had some culpability in allowing something like that to fester for years.
The firing and lawsuits (aside from the ones brought forth by the alleged victims) could have all been avoided if there had been a more appropriate response (including holding some moral responsibility and concern for the victims) - both Pat and Schill made horrible decisions and/or got bad advice.
Was a supporter of Pat (didn't stop me from critiquing his coaching) because he supposedly did things the right way, but as it turns out, that was a facade and all the talk about responsibility and family were empty words.
Btw, Fitzgerald always bristled at the critics (particularly the message board ones).
What's hilarious is that he would eventually end up making those changes that some of us had been calling for weeks, if not years.
But as is oft the case, too little, too late.
What's hilarious is that he would eventually end up making those changes that some of us had been calling for weeks, if not years.
But as is oft the case, too little, too late.
So Paterno is responsible for Sandusky?
Your assessment of Pat is so past the point of wrong I'd try to explain it but clearly you aren't trying to deal with reality
Please, it's not anything close to what you make it out to be.
A "great" coach doesn't keep losing to the Armys of the world (more on that later), much less have multiple 1 win seasons (overall and/or within the conference).
A great coach isn't incapable of (1) hiring a competent OC, (2) fielding even an average O-line (O-line is the position group that should be easiet to recruit at NU), hiring his buddy as DC (despite repeated failures at every stop) which resulted in a crappy D to go along with a crappy O.
I can go on and on and on...
And um, as I had previously stated, Pat's 2 predecessors won a combined three B1G titles, so get off with that "previously thought to be impossible" garbage.
And they were doing it w/o the benefit of playing in the weak B1GW and with crappy facilities.
Pat, otoh, got tons more support from the administration, including Taj Ryan.
Going back to the loss to a bad Army team, it was well known that Army's weakness was its secondary.
So what does "great coach" Pat do?
He starts Kain Colter (a running QB) over Trevor Siemian (a passing QB).
Ok, it's one thing to start Colter (despite knowing that Army's weakness was its secondary), but he kept Colter in for 3 quarters, watching Army defenders repeatedly stop Colter (not a surprise either since they practice against a running QB).
"Great" Pat finally brings in Siemian in the 4th Q - who proceeds to march them down the field and score a TD, but it was too little, too late.
Ok, maybe you don't make the change after the 1st Q (despite seeing the O go nowhere), but you should certainly make the change after the half.
You think this is the only incident of coaching malfeasance?
Got plenty more.
Why do you think the Steelers have to keep unloading WR's?
They all end up being disgruntled do to fossil football (something Tomlin shares with Pat).
FA WRs of any ilk don't want to order come to Pittsburgh because they know they won't put up any sort of nos to get a nice contract, so the Steelers have to trade and overpay for a receiver.
And it's not just receivers, but TEs.
So, if Braun is able up do a "decent job" (I'd say a good bit more decent than Pat's last 4 years), why wasn't Pat able to have a similar level of success instead of going 1-8 in the conference for 3 years?
It's not all Pat's guys, a good no of players hit the portal or signed with a different school, so Braun was able to achieve what he has done with one hand tied behind his back (he still managed to do what Pat really never was able to do - field a decent O-line).
So maybe it isn't so tough to "accomplish things" as you made it out to be? Lol
But let's say Braun is doing it with Pat's guys, he is doing a significantly better job not going 1-8 in the conference with a tougher schedule since the B1GW no longer exists and programs like UI, Neb, IU are no longer basket cases (btw, another similarity with Tomlin who gets all that praise for not having a losing season; not that difficult to do with the Browns being the Browns and Burrow and Jackson getting injured just about every season).
Not saying I'm completely sold on Braun yet (still waiting to see if he can really fix the O), but he has the Cats playing hard and competitively.
Onus on Braun for not picking the right portal QB; with a better QB should have won at least 2 of the Neb, UM and UI close losses (also down to the 5th string RB in Wrigley).
At the very least, Braun seems to be a good guy, and more importantly, authentic.
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I don't know why you can't quote things.
I attended Northwestern--I fully understand the state of the program
A great coach with limited resources has limited options--as most people know. He couldn't get elite talent yet he did things never previously done at Northwestern.
Interesting you complain about him starting Colter over Siemian because this board would have complained if Sieman started over Colter. How many coaches pull their QB in the first quarter? Almost no one. Especially not for a RS Freshman with virtually no experience at that point. You remember the 2011 season, right?
This is one of those times someone from a different fan base thinks they can ramble nonsense as though they know more about Northwestern football than I do--you don't kiddo
Dillingham's agent, ASU exploring new contract
Arizona State coach Kenny Dillingham, 35, became emotional on Saturday when reiterating his love for the Sun Devils and his alma mater, where he's hoping to finalize an enhanced contract, amid reports that he's a top target for the vacancy at Michigan.
www.espn.com
Like I've stated, many similarities between the 2 (including their deficiencies as coaches) with both being "talking head" HCs as opposed to CEO HCs (a CEO HC is adept at hiring the right coordinators/assistants, using the proper schemes to put his players in a position to succeed, etc).
Which is why had a good chuckle when some here (not to mention some media members) brought up Pat in the HC search.
The difference being that Franklin has a sleazy, used car salesman vibe whereas Pat hides behind his "old school" persona - buzz cut and all.
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Yeah, but we're not only talking common sense stuff, but repeatedly making the same mistake over and over again.
Don't think any real great HC is doing that (yeah, everyone, even the greats make mistakes here and there).
Funny how you have nothing but excuses or red herrings when it comes to Pat's shortcomings as a HC, but of course you're biased.
Again, same for all coaches because when it doesn't work that's the complaint.
Ask Bama fans about their complaints about Saban and see if they claim he's making the same mistakes--hint they will say that
Stating facts isn't an excuse. No coach is perfect. Fitzgerald isn't Saban or Smart or Meyer. He's the best thing that ever happened to Northwestern football (arguably twice) and a great coach. We'll see how he does at Michigan State over the next 3 years and where he goes from there. He's probably got 20 years left in his career--maybe more.
Wasn't going to bring that up, but since you did, will repeat what had stated back then.
Paterno did was he was legally obligated to do, so was under no jeapordy, but he didn't exactly do everything he (morally) should have done, as even he stated at the end.
One would think after hearing of such a horrific incident, after reporting it to his superior, he would inquire as to what was happening with the investigation from time to time.
You think Paterno would have brushed his hands about the abuse if it had happened to one of his neighbor's kid?
Also, waiting to make the phone call because he didn't want to disturb someone's weekend is not what you should do upon hearing of such an incident.
Now, was Paterno overly and unfairly blamed (seemingly for not only the slowrolling/coverup, but the abuse itself)?
Yes, and there never should have been sanctions from the NCAA and conference against the program as it was a criminal matter and nothing to do with Penn State football unfairly gaining a competitive edge or involving its players or staff (aside from being a material witness).
An important distinguishing factor is that the only reason Paterno, much less the football program, were involved is because the witness to the abuse, MM, was a staffer who reported it to Paterno and the abuse happened at (afterhours) at Lasch.
In contrast, the (alleged; not sure if that's really necessary as NU paid hefty settlements to the victims) sexual abuse (granted, not as shocking to the conscious, but nonetheless still sexual abuse) with regard to Pat involved his players (both as alleged perpetrators and victims) at football facilities during normal hours of operation.
And as I've stated, not just one time or over the course of a single season, but for years.
Like Paterno, Pat was under no legal jeopardy as it couldn't be proven that he had knowledge, but should he have known and is he morally responsible for allowing such abuse to become institutionalized?
Yes.
I'm sure like pretty much every coach, Pat told the parents of the players that he would "take care of their son", etc.
Don't think the family of the victims think that Pat did a very good job of that.
And sorry, but Pat being "disappointed" with even the 2 week slap on the wrist suspension, playing the "victim" and not showing much of any concern for the real victims - really ticks me off and he's shown that all that talk about values, responsibility and family was just BS words and that he is a fraud and hypocrite.
Pat continued to play the victim, doing media rounds after his settlement with school, repeating that he was "vindicated."
Pat wasn't vindicated any and all responsibility from the sexual abuse that happened under his watch; what he was vindicated for is that Schill was incompetent and totally messed up handling the matter (should have been a longer, if not indefinite suspension until everything was sussed out.
Now, while not excusing Schill, can at least understand why he had agreed to the slap on the wrist since he was the new guy and Pat had a lot of sway with the board.
But both he and Pat should have known (based on everything that had happened since and including Sandusky) that said slap on the wrist wasn't going to fly.
Not to excuse Paterno, but can also understand him burying his head in the sand after he made his report.
He was an old man and like men of his generation who were religious leaders (of every faith and denomination), they didn't quite know how to handle such horrific abuse and just hoped that things would just go away.
There's no such rationale for Pat and Schill who were in higher education and heard about numerous incidences of abuse, sexual or otherwise involving student athletes.
And while there wasn't a coverup per se, it took an intrepid student reporter to blow up the story after the school tried to avoid much notice with a summer/late in the week release.
The fact that you seem to think that Pat holds zero responsibility for the abuse, much less not seeming to have any issue with him playing the victim-card and not showing any remorse, much less concern for the victims, says more about YOU than me.
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