LBers need Dlinemen like QBs need Olinemen. I know that we have a very good dline in place to play in front of him and it looks like we are recruiting them at a good clip presently. Unless the rebels have some dlinemen tucked away that we don't know about, that should be a weakness for them from the time he stepped foot on that campus if he chose them (god forbid). I know I've seen nafoom ***** about the future of their Dline among other things. I'm sure Dan has pointed this out. Any rebels here to straighten me out?</p>
CJ will start at some point next season and
- Thread starter DirtyLopez
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LBers need Dlinemen like QBs need Olinemen. I know that we have a very good dline in place to play in front of him and it looks like we are recruiting them at a good clip presently. Unless the rebels have some dlinemen tucked away that we don't know about, that should be a weakness for them from the time he stepped foot on that campus if he chose them (god forbid). I know I've seen nafoom ***** about the future of their Dline among other things. I'm sure Dan has pointed this out. Any rebels here to straighten me out?</p>
About the D-linemen tucked away, we had 4 DTs rotating this past year, all seniors.
That gave us the luxury to redshirt Carlton Martin and Byron Bennett. Those two, Corey Gaines, and Justin Smith are likely to be our rotation this fall, with maybe a Juco or two mixed in. Our DEs were really young this year. Aside from Dorsey who was a bust and Lockett who got hurt, we didn't have any DEs older than sophomores, and two of the ones that did play a good bit (Rivers and Jones) weren't very fast.
We may have some potential on the DL for the future, but right now it's a whole bunch of unknowns. The fan in me hopes that Carlos Thompson, Delvin Jones, Martin, Bennett, etc. can turn into an all-world DL at some point, and it's possible, but right now that's a big unknown. I do wish we were signing a few more on the DL this year, because we're going to need more along with the guys I've listed. If we don't get too many more, Shackelford may find himself getting even more DE time.
A good example of what you're talking about is Culberson/Willis's seniors years. I believe Culberson actually had more tackles than Willis, primarily because Willis was playing behind a DL that was undersized and couldn't get off blocks, while Culberson had a veteran group in front of him that was solid.
That gave us the luxury to redshirt Carlton Martin and Byron Bennett. Those two, Corey Gaines, and Justin Smith are likely to be our rotation this fall, with maybe a Juco or two mixed in. Our DEs were really young this year. Aside from Dorsey who was a bust and Lockett who got hurt, we didn't have any DEs older than sophomores, and two of the ones that did play a good bit (Rivers and Jones) weren't very fast.
We may have some potential on the DL for the future, but right now it's a whole bunch of unknowns. The fan in me hopes that Carlos Thompson, Delvin Jones, Martin, Bennett, etc. can turn into an all-world DL at some point, and it's possible, but right now that's a big unknown. I do wish we were signing a few more on the DL this year, because we're going to need more along with the guys I've listed. If we don't get too many more, Shackelford may find himself getting even more DE time.
A good example of what you're talking about is Culberson/Willis's seniors years. I believe Culberson actually had more tackles than Willis, primarily because Willis was playing behind a DL that was undersized and couldn't get off blocks, while Culberson had a veteran group in front of him that was solid.
TSUN's DL is going to suck next year. If you are depending on Martin and Bennett to be your DT in the SEC then you are going to be in for a big disappointment. If you thought your DB's were bad last year just wait and see how teams whip your DL up front this year. TSUN is not helping itself in recruiting on the DL or OL this year either to add quality depth. It just does not exist and you will continue to have 4-8 type seasons as long as you can't win the line of scrimmage. The only reason your OL did not get exposed more than it did this year was the ability of Masoli to escape and make something out of nothing. If you go to a more pro-style QB then you will get to see just how bad your OL is going to be this year as well.
If I were a TSUN fan I would be worried why you need 9 QB's, 10 WR's and 10 DB's on signing day. Seriously though, Nutt is putting his entire class into DB's and WR's and not addressing what he should be addressing in stock piling talent along the OL and DL. Morris is the only decent OL and you have not signed a solid DL yet that will make an impact next year.
If I were a TSUN fan I would be worried why you need 9 QB's, 10 WR's and 10 DB's on signing day. Seriously though, Nutt is putting his entire class into DB's and WR's and not addressing what he should be addressing in stock piling talent along the OL and DL. Morris is the only decent OL and you have not signed a solid DL yet that will make an impact next year.
We were playing 1 junior and no seniors this past season on the OL. OL success is largely dependent on experience. You had basically the same line this year that you had in 2008, when they looked like a sieve. They were pretty good this year with some experience.
Our OL will be fine when we've got a good number of juniors and seniors playing. Playing at least 4 freshmen and sophomores most of the year is never going to work in the SEC. I've actually been very pleased with our OL recruiting this class and the previous 2 classes. That's one area I'm not at all concerned about. We'll be fine there probably starting as soon as next season going forward. I think we've done a much better job with the OL recruiting this class and the previous 2 than you have for instance. I'd be more concerned about my OL in the future if I was in your shoes than ours. The lag on your OL recruiting is a little longer than the rest of the positions. I'd say it's usually 3-4 years at least, because you typically redshirt guys, and they usually don't hit their stride until at least their 3rd season.
The DL, I am concerned about. We may be fine in the future, but next year we're going to be inexperienced in a big way up front, and we need some depth added in this class.
As far as this year's signing class is concerned, like I said, I'm pleased with the OL haul we have lined up, especially considering what we already have on campus. I'm more concerned about the DL class. I'd like to see us sign at least 5-6 of them this year (DE and DT combined), and I think we'll end up with only 4.
All that said, we needed QBs more than we needed linemen in this class (only 2 on campus), and I'd argue we needed WRs and DBs just as much, if not more then linemen as well. I'm always a fan of signing the big uglies. They're my favorite part of a class, but this year we needed QBs, DBs, and WRs in a big way.
If we can add Whitehead and at least one more solid HS DB, maybe one of the Florida guys, or get Raven back, then I will be happy with how we filled out our class, with the exception, like I said of wanting at least 1-2 more on the DL.
Our OL will be fine when we've got a good number of juniors and seniors playing. Playing at least 4 freshmen and sophomores most of the year is never going to work in the SEC. I've actually been very pleased with our OL recruiting this class and the previous 2 classes. That's one area I'm not at all concerned about. We'll be fine there probably starting as soon as next season going forward. I think we've done a much better job with the OL recruiting this class and the previous 2 than you have for instance. I'd be more concerned about my OL in the future if I was in your shoes than ours. The lag on your OL recruiting is a little longer than the rest of the positions. I'd say it's usually 3-4 years at least, because you typically redshirt guys, and they usually don't hit their stride until at least their 3rd season.
The DL, I am concerned about. We may be fine in the future, but next year we're going to be inexperienced in a big way up front, and we need some depth added in this class.
As far as this year's signing class is concerned, like I said, I'm pleased with the OL haul we have lined up, especially considering what we already have on campus. I'm more concerned about the DL class. I'd like to see us sign at least 5-6 of them this year (DE and DT combined), and I think we'll end up with only 4.
All that said, we needed QBs more than we needed linemen in this class (only 2 on campus), and I'd argue we needed WRs and DBs just as much, if not more then linemen as well. I'm always a fan of signing the big uglies. They're my favorite part of a class, but this year we needed QBs, DBs, and WRs in a big way.
If we can add Whitehead and at least one more solid HS DB, maybe one of the Florida guys, or get Raven back, then I will be happy with how we filled out our class, with the exception, like I said of wanting at least 1-2 more on the DL.
as was the case with us the past few years. We also got much better coaching but that 2008 MSU OL was horrible.
Didn't y'all have to play a couple of walk on freshmen playing because of injuries? Speaking objectively I will agree that they will be better because of experience but you have to realize that Masoli made them appear better than they were since he could scramble so well. I don't think any of your qb's will be near as good as Masoli is/was next year. Lineplay is critical. I think y'all are still in rebuilding mode.
I'm worried about our O-line in this league and we're only looking to replace 2 guys and have a ton of experience coming back. I think having Relf and his running ability one more year will help in that transition. If I were an Ole Miss fan I'd be freaking out with the O and D line next year.
I'm worried about our O-line in this league and we're only looking to replace 2 guys and have a ton of experience coming back. I think having Relf and his running ability one more year will help in that transition. If I were an Ole Miss fan I'd be freaking out with the O and D line next year.
G
Goat Holder II
Guest
In the past two classes, we've signed (not listing JUCOs):
Sam Watts
Gabe Jackson
Blaine Clausell
Archie Muniz
Eric Lawson
Dillon Day
Damein Robinson
You've signed:
Emmanuel McCray
Michael Brown
Evan Swindall
Corey Gaines
Bobbie Massie
Jared Duke
Terrance Hackney
We've both got 3 on the list for 2011 at this time.
Tell me the difference in those lists? They both have one guy that was really heavily recruited. How exactly is your recruiting better than ours?
I do agree that experience and maturity plays a big part in OL success.
Sam Watts
Gabe Jackson
Blaine Clausell
Archie Muniz
Eric Lawson
Dillon Day
Damein Robinson
You've signed:
Emmanuel McCray
Michael Brown
Evan Swindall
Corey Gaines
Bobbie Massie
Jared Duke
Terrance Hackney
We've both got 3 on the list for 2011 at this time.
Tell me the difference in those lists? They both have one guy that was really heavily recruited. How exactly is your recruiting better than ours?
I do agree that experience and maturity plays a big part in OL success.
Changing away from an overly complicated Worst Coast system and getting a better O-line coach work wonders too. I just don't see next year being the year they're line comes together.
And I've got my fingers crossed that Carmon makes one bad *** LT for us.
And I've got my fingers crossed that Carmon makes one bad *** LT for us.
I am hearing that LSU has stepped into the picture in a big way and we may actually be running third in this race. I know it sounds like sour grapes but there appears to be a bidding war developing (5Star). Logic dictates that a guy that has been committed to you for two years and who is your biggest recruiter(prior to Diaz) doesn't just change his mind and suddenly find himself conflicted. There is definetely something going on and it started with the inducement to just de-commit and has worsened from there. Unless CJ is willing to follow his heart we are going to lose him. As Cam said, "The money is just too good". Yes, I know we all do it but some more than others and some have deeper pockets and more deperation at the moment. Damn, I really hate to lose CJ, I could care less about Singleton and Brassell and I am on the fence with Whitehead.
These are rumors which are encouraged here but they are rumors from some pretty decent sources.
These are rumors which are encouraged here but they are rumors from some pretty decent sources.
You have one of the worst if not the worst OL in the SEC. You are not bringing in anyone this year that will contribute right away. Heck Justin Bell will probably be a grey-shirt if that tells you anything about his talent level. Morris is the only solid OL in the group if you want to know the truth. Like others said, Masoli is the main reason they even looked serviceable last year and the reason Stanley could not play behind that OL. You put a QB back there that can't scramble and the OL is going to look even worse. You will find out this year again just how bad your OL is without a QB that can make plays like Masoli could on his own.
Now your DL is going to get eat up next year. You won't be able to stop much of anything on the ground and probably won't get much pressure on the QBs. I look for people to put up lots of points again on the Rebs and will have a much easier time running the football on you without Powe, Laurent, and the rest of the group. Martin and Bennett aren't going to help you much next year. They will get pushed around by most SEC OL's and the depth factor is going to be non-existent on the DL on those hot humid September weekends. Good luck buddy. Hope you are preparing yourself for another 4-8 type of season and a new coaching staff for 2012.
Now your DL is going to get eat up next year. You won't be able to stop much of anything on the ground and probably won't get much pressure on the QBs. I look for people to put up lots of points again on the Rebs and will have a much easier time running the football on you without Powe, Laurent, and the rest of the group. Martin and Bennett aren't going to help you much next year. They will get pushed around by most SEC OL's and the depth factor is going to be non-existent on the DL on those hot humid September weekends. Good luck buddy. Hope you are preparing yourself for another 4-8 type of season and a new coaching staff for 2012.
going to be pretty good on the OL and at RB. Decent WR's in 2011, but nothing special. QB is going to be a struggle. Fortunately, your OL will be able to help with that, but it will cost you at critical times.
Defensively, you're not going to be able to replace losing your 2-deep at DT- LSU and Bammer cant even do it effectively- much less you guys. Getting your *** pushed around is going to be what gets Nutts fired. You are also replacing 2 starters at LB and starters in the Secondary. Good luck.
I see a team in 2011 that is worse at QB and no better on defense. And now you to have to go to Kentucky and Vandy. Opening up with a veteran BYU team doesnt do you any favors either.
Probable 4-8, best case 6-6
Defensively, you're not going to be able to replace losing your 2-deep at DT- LSU and Bammer cant even do it effectively- much less you guys. Getting your *** pushed around is going to be what gets Nutts fired. You are also replacing 2 starters at LB and starters in the Secondary. Good luck.
I see a team in 2011 that is worse at QB and no better on defense. And now you to have to go to Kentucky and Vandy. Opening up with a veteran BYU team doesnt do you any favors either.
Probable 4-8, best case 6-6
that some here say we are losing recruits due to schools telling them MSU may still have issues with the NCAA while at the same time others say we are losing recruits because other schools are essentially buying them away from us. So evidently these recruits are concerned about us potentially having NCAA issues (which we don't) while they simultaneously are willing to go and accept illegal benefits from other schools with apparently no concern at all about that. As much as I love college football sometimes it does truly disgust me.
you can hide a deficiency of a young OL by putting him in the interior. But no, Croom puts him at tackle where he is exposed constantly.
actions with Newton have not strengthened the case for playing within the rules and some might see it as an opening to play
a little more on the edge. "Hell, the player knew nothing about those envelopes with cash"! You are correct it is disgusting but money talks and ******** walks.
a little more on the edge. "Hell, the player knew nothing about those envelopes with cash"! You are correct it is disgusting but money talks and ******** walks.
Goat Holder II said:
I felt like in particular you were back-filling a lot of your signees on the OL in 2010. If it was just one guy, I'd say it might have been just chance, but Muniz, Lawson, and Day all seemed to be guys that popped up on your radar really late in the process. I even remember it being noted on here at the time that a lot of your fans felt like you were back-filling. Also, I'm not buying Damien Robinson, but that's another story. I could be wrong on all of those guys (and OL do take time to develop), but I've felt good about the guys we've brought in on the OL, and I've had my doubts about a lot of what you've brought in the past couple classes. I do like Maiden and Redmond from this class though.
While some of our guys may not have been that widely heralded, they were guys that our staff made top priorities early in the process. Just a feel, so don't get your panties in a wad, but I've felt like we've been doing a better job at the position than you the past few years. We'll find out in 2012 I guess, because by then that's who each team will have up front.
Gaines is playing DT by the way, and you left off Chase Hughes, not that it makes a lot of difference.
statemba said:
Again, you glossed over the prime example I used. Your OL looked like trash in 2008. By 2010, you looked pretty good with essentially the same personnel. We were playing 1 junior, 0 seniors, and the rest of our entire 2 deep were freshmen and sophomores this year. Of course we struggled some on the OL this year. That group is probably going to be pretty solid next year and especially the year after.
Experience is the key to OL play. That's why Phil Steele always notes the teams that have 100 combined starts returning on the OL. It's a big deal to have starts under your belt. You had 4 seniors and 2 juniors on your OL 2 deep this year. That's a big deal for an offense.
G
Goat Holder II
Guest
Backfilling with Muniz, Lawson and Day? The first two had BCS offers and we were on Day for awhile. You bears didn't buy Derek Sherrod either. Good call.
I do think Jeremy Lee and Paul Crawford were last minute type guys. They legitimately came out of nowhere.
Point is, you really can't make an educated guess either way. I don't even know who your OL players are. They obviously weren't heavily recruited except for Massie. I think we wanted McCray.
I do think Jeremy Lee and Paul Crawford were last minute type guys. They legitimately came out of nowhere.
Point is, you really can't make an educated guess either way. I don't even know who your OL players are. They obviously weren't heavily recruited except for Massie. I think we wanted McCray.
Are you thinking mainly of the Egg Bowl, because that was by far their worst game. The game before when we beat Arkansas they actually played decent. That team, o-line, everything was a victim of bad coaching more so than being bereft of talent. Just look at the rushing numbers from 08 to 09 Dan's a great coach but he can't turn water into wine. There was talent there just poorly poorly coached talent.
Similar to the 07 rebs under O.
Similar to the 07 rebs under O.
And I still contend he might have looked pretty decent at G in '08. He had a good motor, hustled, and was always around the pile finishing blocks. But any fool could see he didn't have length needed to be successful at T. His arms just aren't long enough, nor his feet quick enough. I'd be willing to bet someone will be very happy to have Saulsberry on their OL in 2012. His flexibility to play C will be good for him, too.
EAVdog said:
Or...inexperienced talent, which again was my point.
Auburn's OL was good this year. They had 4 senior starters. Typically you want mostly juniors and seniors on your OL, and you hopefully don't have to mix in more than one, maybe 2 sophomores or freshmen who are very good talents, and even then you often want to be able to disguise them playing them at the guard position or something like that.
Our issues on the OL this year were due to a lack of experience, not talent. Between our entire OL, we had about 18 games started I believe returning. Massie had 5, and Sowell had 13. That's it. You don't have to believe me. You can just watch. There are no good OLs that start as many freshmen and sophomores as we did this past year.
G
Goat Holder II
Guest
is just defending what Ole Miss is doing right now? You're not eclipsing any earth shattering revelations here. If it happens to Ole Miss, well then there's this perfectly good explanation for it. And I'm sure you'll have another excuse when the next conflict arises that maybe reveals the Flagship is not in the best position.
And don't try to deflect back on me with some BS I've said about State. I've been as objective of an observer as there is here recently.
And don't try to deflect back on me with some BS I've said about State. I've been as objective of an observer as there is here recently.
I think you mistake there has to be a combination of talent and experience for an OL to be good. Massie is about the best OL you have and he is by no means dominant. The rest of your OL would have looked very bad this year if not for Masoli scrambling for his life. Stanley would not have survived behind your OL. Masoli made plays for himself because he was that good of an athlete and was able to make something out of nothing lots of times.
Your current OL may be young but you don't have a lot of talented kids up there either. You were playing kids with very limited offers and even some walkons. Those kids won't suddenly get talent between now and this fall. You need immediate contributors on your OL signing class which the only one who may be able to contribute early in a backup role will be Morris. OM just has not stock piled much talent on the OL or DL in its last 2 classes. It will show up over the next few years I can promise you that.
Kids like Stanley and Stout will be non-factors at UM at QB due to your poor play on the OL. Bolden will find it even more difficult to run due to the QB not being a threat like Masoli was to pull it down and make a big play out of nothing. Also, you are forgetting about the depth factor. What depth does UM have at OL going into the fall? Who is going to be that quality second OL to come in when temps are 100 degrees outside in mid September at 11:30? You guys may add 10 WR's and 15 DB's but you won't win many games until you dominate the line of scrimmage. Remember you had your best years when you had kids like Oher and Jerry on the OL. You don't have anything close to that kind of talent in your 2 deep OL currently.
Now for your DL. Wow, that group is going to be really bad next year and will get beat by most OL's in the SEC this coming year. I don't see anyone on the DL being much of a threat and the depth definitely isn't there. Tillman may come back and be decent but coming off a knee injury usually will slow a kid a few steps. The DT's will get pushed around a good bit this year and who knows what your JUCO DB's will do. Nutt will be very very lucky if he wins more than 4 games this coming year with the kids he has including an unproven inexperienced QB that hasn't even been named yet.
As for Russell, he doesn't currently fit what Mullen is doing. I look for Dak Prescott to be the next QB at MSU behind Relf. He is a lot like Relf except he is a much better passer. Same size and same game as Relf.
Your current OL may be young but you don't have a lot of talented kids up there either. You were playing kids with very limited offers and even some walkons. Those kids won't suddenly get talent between now and this fall. You need immediate contributors on your OL signing class which the only one who may be able to contribute early in a backup role will be Morris. OM just has not stock piled much talent on the OL or DL in its last 2 classes. It will show up over the next few years I can promise you that.
Kids like Stanley and Stout will be non-factors at UM at QB due to your poor play on the OL. Bolden will find it even more difficult to run due to the QB not being a threat like Masoli was to pull it down and make a big play out of nothing. Also, you are forgetting about the depth factor. What depth does UM have at OL going into the fall? Who is going to be that quality second OL to come in when temps are 100 degrees outside in mid September at 11:30? You guys may add 10 WR's and 15 DB's but you won't win many games until you dominate the line of scrimmage. Remember you had your best years when you had kids like Oher and Jerry on the OL. You don't have anything close to that kind of talent in your 2 deep OL currently.
Now for your DL. Wow, that group is going to be really bad next year and will get beat by most OL's in the SEC this coming year. I don't see anyone on the DL being much of a threat and the depth definitely isn't there. Tillman may come back and be decent but coming off a knee injury usually will slow a kid a few steps. The DT's will get pushed around a good bit this year and who knows what your JUCO DB's will do. Nutt will be very very lucky if he wins more than 4 games this coming year with the kids he has including an unproven inexperienced QB that hasn't even been named yet.
As for Russell, he doesn't currently fit what Mullen is doing. I look for Dak Prescott to be the next QB at MSU behind Relf. He is a lot like Relf except he is a much better passer. Same size and same game as Relf.
Massie, McCray, Brown, Hackney, Hughes, Duke, both Halls and some guys that were not highly recruited that actually have been doing pretty well. The problem is that you can't get an olineman up to speed as quick as other positions.