Coach Cohen is beaming!
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in a couple of years. We are about to level off and start up the slope.
It was just a turrible situation Cohen was dealt.
I don't like Polk as a coach or person for what he caused to happen to MSU baseball.
It was just a turrible situation Cohen was dealt.
I don't like Polk as a coach or person for what he caused to happen to MSU baseball.
I would be right there with ya'll in wanting him fired. I'm in wait and see mode only because of the situation that he inherited. I've listed many reasons why we should be better, and to be honest with you there is no reason why we shouldn't be better. And as I've said, if we don't get better this year, then he should be fired.
Also, the baseball community is fairly tight knit. Even if Butch is the worst pitching coach in America, firing him for not producing in that situation would have looked really, really bad on our part. I'm not saying that we couldn't have found someone good had we fired him, but it sure wouldn't have helped. Because I can guarantee you that every candidate would have been wondering why we fired a coach that inherited a largely hurt staff that wasn't his own, and then a staff with a bunch of freshmen on it. That's how the coaches would see it. And it would come up in the interviews.
Like I said, it's rubber meets the road time for the coaches and the team.
Also, the baseball community is fairly tight knit. Even if Butch is the worst pitching coach in America, firing him for not producing in that situation would have looked really, really bad on our part. I'm not saying that we couldn't have found someone good had we fired him, but it sure wouldn't have helped. Because I can guarantee you that every candidate would have been wondering why we fired a coach that inherited a largely hurt staff that wasn't his own, and then a staff with a bunch of freshmen on it. That's how the coaches would see it. And it would come up in the interviews.
Like I said, it's rubber meets the road time for the coaches and the team.
... but I will have to say, Thompson is going to get Cohen fired if pitching doesn't improve. I think it is really going to show this year
The man didn't impress me at Georgia, Auburn, or his lengthy week-long stint as Head Coach at High Point North Carolina. Good recruiter, crappy coach.
Look at the injuries to pitchers under his watch (and don't tell me Routt's was pre-existing).
Routt
Bracewell
Bussey
Pace
Reed (over/sidearm/over), Jones wildness, Whitney's arm destruction........
Someone said that Fitts was already "hurt". Whatever Thompson is doing, it's getting pitchers hurt (check out the inuries to Auburn pitchers under Slater/Thompson's coaching). Slater probably got fired because of him.
Russ McNickle was not too great either.
Now, give me Darren Schoenrock or Pat McMahon back, and we would be in high cotton!
Anyhow....
Pitching wins games.
http://www2.netdoor.com/~lynn02/Grndslam.au
The man didn't impress me at Georgia, Auburn, or his lengthy week-long stint as Head Coach at High Point North Carolina. Good recruiter, crappy coach.
Look at the injuries to pitchers under his watch (and don't tell me Routt's was pre-existing).
Routt
Bracewell
Bussey
Pace
Reed (over/sidearm/over), Jones wildness, Whitney's arm destruction........
Someone said that Fitts was already "hurt". Whatever Thompson is doing, it's getting pitchers hurt (check out the inuries to Auburn pitchers under Slater/Thompson's coaching). Slater probably got fired because of him.
Russ McNickle was not too great either.
Now, give me Darren Schoenrock or Pat McMahon back, and we would be in high cotton!
Anyhow....
Pitching wins games.
http://www2.netdoor.com/~lynn02/Grndslam.au
He is not one to BLOW smoke! He believes what he says.
Simply put a lot of Freshmens grow up the year after they get out on their own, mentally and physically.
My question? how is the overall pitching?
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Simply put a lot of Freshmens grow up the year after they get out on their own, mentally and physically.
My question? how is the overall pitching?
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G
Goat Holder II
Guest
But Pace was hurt under McNickle. Ben had arm problems in high school that were known about before he came to MSU. I'll give you Bussey, but he wasn't going to do much for us even if he was healthy.
I'm not wild about Reed doing the over/under thing either. He needs to be a submarine guy, though.
I think Devin will benefit from having a set role- and that's being a starter. I think shuttling him from closer/reliever/starter affected him a lot. Him knowing that he will pitch every Fri. or Sat. will probably help him. Devin was extremely raw when he came to MSU. He has always been able to throw hard, but he was a project, and after he gets drafted this year, is going to be a project for some MLB team. That's not a criticism of him because I think he has the God given ability to make it to MLB, but he just has to learn how to harness it. The fact that he thinks that he tries to strike everyone out doesn't help his control because what happens is he will try to get a hitter to chase a pitch and then get behind the count. We'll see what happens with Devin.
It sounds like you are blaming Fitt's sore arm on Butch- I know you're not doing that though? Surely you don't think that Butch decided to call up Pelham's coach and tell him to throw 200+ pitches in a span of about a week?
I do have a theory on why Routt got hurt- when he was in high school, he was a relief pitcher. He wasn't conditioned to throw 120 pitches because he never had to do it. So, he gets to college and he is starter all of a sudden, and then he hurts his arm. That honestly is most likely why he hurt his arm- it's impossible to pinpoint, but I think it's a pretty good educated guess. Most of your top pitchers are guys that are starters- even if they end up as a closer in college.
Thing is this- as of now our pitching staff as a whole is pretty healthy. Routt is the most injured, and he threw 60 pitches in a bullpen session today. He is the only pitcher that hasn't appeared in a scrimmage yet- and he might throw in one this weekend. Contrast that to LSU, who has lost four pitchers already from what I have heard through the grapevine.
It's funny that you mentioned Shoenrock because I remember a lot of people wanted him gone when he was here. I thought he was pretty good- I liked the fact that he had a pro background. Of course, we replaced him with McNickle and he started to look pretty good.
I'm not wild about Reed doing the over/under thing either. He needs to be a submarine guy, though.
I think Devin will benefit from having a set role- and that's being a starter. I think shuttling him from closer/reliever/starter affected him a lot. Him knowing that he will pitch every Fri. or Sat. will probably help him. Devin was extremely raw when he came to MSU. He has always been able to throw hard, but he was a project, and after he gets drafted this year, is going to be a project for some MLB team. That's not a criticism of him because I think he has the God given ability to make it to MLB, but he just has to learn how to harness it. The fact that he thinks that he tries to strike everyone out doesn't help his control because what happens is he will try to get a hitter to chase a pitch and then get behind the count. We'll see what happens with Devin.
It sounds like you are blaming Fitt's sore arm on Butch- I know you're not doing that though? Surely you don't think that Butch decided to call up Pelham's coach and tell him to throw 200+ pitches in a span of about a week?
I do have a theory on why Routt got hurt- when he was in high school, he was a relief pitcher. He wasn't conditioned to throw 120 pitches because he never had to do it. So, he gets to college and he is starter all of a sudden, and then he hurts his arm. That honestly is most likely why he hurt his arm- it's impossible to pinpoint, but I think it's a pretty good educated guess. Most of your top pitchers are guys that are starters- even if they end up as a closer in college.
Thing is this- as of now our pitching staff as a whole is pretty healthy. Routt is the most injured, and he threw 60 pitches in a bullpen session today. He is the only pitcher that hasn't appeared in a scrimmage yet- and he might throw in one this weekend. Contrast that to LSU, who has lost four pitchers already from what I have heard through the grapevine.
It's funny that you mentioned Shoenrock because I remember a lot of people wanted him gone when he was here. I thought he was pretty good- I liked the fact that he had a pro background. Of course, we replaced him with McNickle and he started to look pretty good.
I sure do hope (like weblow) that I am wrong about Thompson, though. Cohen sure does like him. I hope it's not a Croom/McCorvey thing. I guess we will see after this season.
I know Schoenrock is at Memphis now. I thought he was a decent coach. Others didn't think so.
Where is McMahon now? Still coaching that New York team? He would be a catch.
I know Schoenrock is at Memphis now. I thought he was a decent coach. Others didn't think so.
Where is McMahon now? Still coaching that New York team? He would be a catch.
From 1997 to 2001, we went to 2 CWS, 2 super-regionals and 1 regional final. That is still the best 5-year run in MSU baseball history. We screwed the pooch when we rehired Polk in 2001. I hope the damage isn't irreversible, but from what I've seen since then, it probably is.
But I am still shocked to this day that Memphis didn't hire Dan McDonnell, who is now at Louisville. Because of that hire, we promoted Russ McNickle, and now here we are. I think McDonnell would have made Memphis into a powerhouse program, and I still think they are a sleeping giant. If they ever get the right coach- look out.
You're not going to believe this, but Pat McMahon is doing work in the Dominican Republic for the Yankees.
I honestly don't know if McMahon and Cohen would be a good match- Cohen was the hitting coach at Florida under....Pat McMahon. I have to wonder how that would work with the roles reversed. Plus, with McMahon being a former head coach here, it might be awkward. Now, it might work out, but I would have my concerns about how the staff would work together because of the role reversals and the potential awkwardness. And then you have Polk in bushes. It would be interesting, but I would have my worries. It could work out great, though.
I don't think Cohen and Butch are analgous to Croom and McCorvey. As I've said many times, Cohen and Lane are much more like Croom and McCorvey than Cohen and Butch are. I suspect that if we had to make some coaching changes, you would see Mingione and Butch go before Lane. And I do think Cohen would make changes if he had to- MSU is his dream job, and he knows what's expected here. He's not going to throw that away because his pitching coach isn't getting the job done. And if they don't win this year- you better believe there will be some pressure.
Now, Pat is a great pitching coach, but what I would do if/when we have to get a new pitching coach is go after Karl Kuhn at the University of Virginia. A lot of people on here like Brian O'Connor- well, I think Kuhn is the real brains behind that operation. He honestly might be the best pitching coach in the country. I've seen some of his seminars, and he is impressive. He graduated from Florida, so he is at least somewhat familiar with the SEC, and he used to coach at Arkansas-Little Rock. So, getting him to MSU might be possible. Especially if we offer him enough money.
Cohen's comments about Butch today- he was doing what a good head coach is supposed to do- and that's take up for his players and coaches. But Cohen was also telling the truth in defending him. Honestly, if Cohen had called out Butch or questioned him, I would wonder why he kept him around and didn't fire him in the offseason because that would tell me that Cohen saw problems and just kept him around for whatever reason. Cohen was also telling the truth about the respect that he has in the baseball coaching and scouting community as well.
You're not going to believe this, but Pat McMahon is doing work in the Dominican Republic for the Yankees.
I honestly don't know if McMahon and Cohen would be a good match- Cohen was the hitting coach at Florida under....Pat McMahon. I have to wonder how that would work with the roles reversed. Plus, with McMahon being a former head coach here, it might be awkward. Now, it might work out, but I would have my concerns about how the staff would work together because of the role reversals and the potential awkwardness. And then you have Polk in bushes. It would be interesting, but I would have my worries. It could work out great, though.
I don't think Cohen and Butch are analgous to Croom and McCorvey. As I've said many times, Cohen and Lane are much more like Croom and McCorvey than Cohen and Butch are. I suspect that if we had to make some coaching changes, you would see Mingione and Butch go before Lane. And I do think Cohen would make changes if he had to- MSU is his dream job, and he knows what's expected here. He's not going to throw that away because his pitching coach isn't getting the job done. And if they don't win this year- you better believe there will be some pressure.
Now, Pat is a great pitching coach, but what I would do if/when we have to get a new pitching coach is go after Karl Kuhn at the University of Virginia. A lot of people on here like Brian O'Connor- well, I think Kuhn is the real brains behind that operation. He honestly might be the best pitching coach in the country. I've seen some of his seminars, and he is impressive. He graduated from Florida, so he is at least somewhat familiar with the SEC, and he used to coach at Arkansas-Little Rock. So, getting him to MSU might be possible. Especially if we offer him enough money.
Cohen's comments about Butch today- he was doing what a good head coach is supposed to do- and that's take up for his players and coaches. But Cohen was also telling the truth in defending him. Honestly, if Cohen had called out Butch or questioned him, I would wonder why he kept him around and didn't fire him in the offseason because that would tell me that Cohen saw problems and just kept him around for whatever reason. Cohen was also telling the truth about the respect that he has in the baseball coaching and scouting community as well.
Last year all he did was rave about Devin Jones, and we saw how that turned out. Now he's raving about everyone. Hopefully it's not a similar situation.
I don't think he got over the Mendoza Line with the Gorilla Ball bat and he royally sucked on the mound too.